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Comments
If you really want an Ody, and the back bulge is the only show stopper, someone posted a while back that they had an upholstery shop reshape the foam. Not sure how much it wold cost, but probably can't be that expensive.
A back support cushion is also an option.
Yes, I know that if you spend 30K on a car you don't want to have to spend more money on adjustments, but as it has been noted, one size doesn't always fit all.
Besides, people spend lots of money changing new cars (stereo upgrades, new wheels, etc.), so why should seats be any different?
If I had the moneyto blow, I would get a set of Recaros and have them covered to match.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As I recall, the seat complaints about the last generation Odyssey were that the seats were too short and didn't have enough thigh support. Sounds like Toyota may have copied that design, Heywood?
While you're getting the seat rebuilt at the upholstery shop, stick bun warmers in there too (if you don't already have them).
Steve, Host
Oh, oh, oh! And I forgot to mention the industrial-strength heating system: there were 2-inch diameter heat pipes to the floor of the rear to keep even guests' toes toasty! Hmmmm.... You'd almost think that the manufacturer knew something about severe winter weather or something..... ;-)
Looks are subjective and what appeals to one person will turn off another. Same applies to colors.
Same applies to soup. French onion, clam chowder, what's your pleasure.
I will say that if I were a minivan shopper, looks would probably be the LAST thing I would care about.
But, that's me...
"Perhaps your boss was used to better restaurants" I'm still laughing over that one!
Reguarding the Odys older design being the most attractive in a minivan and being much more stylish than the current model.Man...I thought I would never hear anyone say that.Hans stated the same thing though. To me it literally looks like a big cracker box on wheels.Just a bunch of straight lines.The new 2005 Ody looks much better in my opinion.They borrowed much of it's exterior styling from THE Mazda MPV. Voted the most stylish and sportiest minivan on the market.
Saturn gives the option because it has to. Mitsubishi gives a 100K warranty because it has to. That is, both of these brands would be worse off sales-wise if they didn't go above and beyond the Hondas and Toyotas of the world.
Oh yeah, this is a personal opinion for sure. It is a funny statement to me, though. I understand people thinking a minivan in general isn't exciting on the outside. That's a minivan. But dinging the Ody because it looks like a Venture and Windstar ... that's exacting! What else is it going to look like? I think minivans look 85 percent the same on the outside, and the other 15 percent isn't a dealbreaker. It is what is on the inside (engine and vehicle) that counts to me in a minivan. BTW, that snub nose makes for easier parking.
" Oh, what an ugly color!"
" Oh, I LOVE that color"
" What ugly tailights!"
" I love how they changed the tailights"
" Oh, the new Odyssey looks so nice"
" Why did Honda change the looks?"
" The Sienna looks so much better"
" I can't stand the looks of the Sienna!"
" The seats are uncomfortable"
" Oh the seats are so nice and supportive"
" What's that noise?"
" Oh, it's so nice and quiet!"
Go figure...
We will be moving to Bitburg, Germany soon and I would love to ask you a couple of questions about your Odyssey. Thank you!
miacara
My wife and I had a similar experience with a 4runner in '98; the release mechanism for the rear hatch would stick. When it was stuck, you couldn't open the rear hatch; something in the mechanism wouldn't engage. The dealer's "fix" consisted of the mechanic crawling over the rear seat, popping off the inner panel, and manually popping the rear hatch. They never tried to figure out WHY it was sticking. On our third trip (yeah, yeah, I know.....) they claimed to have "fixed" the problem again. Driver delivered the car to us in the service aisle and BEFORE I DROVE OFF, I checked the rear hatch. Yep, you guessed it, stuck AGAIN. That's when I detonated on the service writer; after which they finally REPLACED the hatch mechanism.
Never had a lick of problem with that hatch again.
Bottom line, just 'unsticking' a part doesn't FIX the problem.
Anyone else disappointed in mileage?
We have 4,500 miles on our Touring Ody and overall mileage is 16.4. That is a mix of highway and around town. Straight highway cruising is coming in at about 23.
I wasn't in on that vote. Who was?!? And I forgot to mention the -- oh my WORD!?! -- Mazda MPV for unattractive styling. YM-obviously-Varies.
denver5357: But dinging the Ody because it looks like a Venture and Windstar ... that's exacting! What else is it going to look like?
Like the last Odyssey would have been good.
BTW, that snub nose makes for easier parking.
It's an illusion. The exterior length is the same. The only thing I'd grant is that the snub nose just might make the real bumper location short of what it appears to be giving you some grace space in tight quarters. But then, the same higher hood line obscures the other vehicle's bumper from your vision too.
OK, I certainly realize that all this is subjective. My opinion of this minivan's looks are certainly subject to more negativity than most of you, obviously. Granted that these things are, by nature, boxy contraptions and that Honda achieved the increased interior space without increasing outside length in part by shoving the engine forward necessitating the hood bulge that results in that (IMHO) very ugly blunt nose.
But my point is that Honda managed to produce an extraordinarily attractive (IMHO and that of many others) solution to the problem in the prior version. I'm thinking others have also been turned away by the new looks too.
Also, I was not talking about style so much as attractive appearance. The difference is that the former, almost as a prerequisite, must be constantly updated even if that means creating something that looks worse! The latter can accommodate less in the way of change once something classically beautiful has been achieved.
Call me a curmudgeon (it's undoubtedly true!), but I am simply not impressed with change for change's sake. Nor am I willing to spend close to 30-grand for something I find unattractive. If attractiveness did not matter to me, I could find lots of choices that would serve as well for considerably less money than that. In fact, a used last-generation Odyssey would satisfy my desire for the looks and provide most of what I personally value in these things.
But then certainly others have their own set of trade offs that they are willing to accept....
P.S. The spell checker had the audacity to suggest the totally-manufactured "carmudgeon" for "curmudgeon!" Now that's funny!
Seriously, the blunt nose is easier for me to park because I can see where it starts better than a longer nose.
My criteria was more along the lines of safety, reliability, price, comfort/noise, performance, features/utility, and then styling.
Hmmm, guess styling was more like 7th on my list of criteria......
All that being said......I think the new Odyssey is a DAMN nice looking van....8^)
Good Grief! It's a MINIVAN!!
my biggest concern are also the doors. both sliding doors have collided on my 150 miles old EXL with the front doors. As a consequence, the paint has come off the edges on both doors. The dealer is taking the car in for re-adjusting all doors including the hard to close tail gate.
Some times I think the vehicle feels like it got assembled in a hurry ...
It would have taken very little to give it a more luxurious feel, like spending few dollar more on good quality plastic parts (interior of the doors).
my two cents worth ..
Scs_13
I have no idea how something like that could possibly happen.
Carmudgeon
Steve, Host
With those in mind, plus a need for 8 passengers together with their two-week-vacation luggage (inside the vehicle!), led us to buy a 2003 Yukon XL at the very end of that year. Paying $31,000 out the door (including TTL) made it a comparable deal to an Odyssey as close as one of those can get to the features we got (ignoring the fact that the Odyssey really doesn't fill my 8-passengers-with-luggage-inside stated need). Add the fact that, at the admitted cost of gas mileage (18 mpg highway fully loaded as described above), we surpassed the Odyssey in all of the criteria you mention, plus easily handling the Rocky Mountains loaded as described.
The YXL has constantly impressed me with it's comfort, features, quiet, and power; especially after I bought a used Taurus (safe, but depreciating nicely for a good deal used!) as a commuter car. Oh yes, I forgot to mention that The Yukon is far and away better looking IMHO (of course!) than any minivan. But, that former-design Odyssey in white will still garner my admiration whenever I see one on the road.
isell: You fell back onto the just-a-minivan-for-Pete's-sake argument as I had foreshadowed. Following that line of reason, we might as well say, "All vehicles are just transportation after all!" and decimate the luxury car market altogether. ;-)
And safety includes the ability to (perhaps) avoid an accident. While the Odyssey is no sportscar (or sports sedan or anything ELSE "sports"), I would be willing to bet it is a bit more nimble than an Yukon XL (isn't that GMC's version of the Suburban?)
That's as far as I'll go in what could easily deteriorate into a 'SUV' vs. 'Minivan' argument. Let's try not to pollute this particular forum with that kind of no-win argument.
There is no good news from our side. The seat still causes pain and we try to avoid using the van (borrowed mother in-law’s car last weekend) while we wait for a response from Honda. The dealer was not helpful at all.
Honda’s dealing of this problem has thus far not been good. We like Honda’s focus on reliability, safety, and the environment, and we also liked the van. However, none of that matters if they don’t treat their customers right and fix this problem. The interesting thing is that correcting our problem would most likely cost them less than the profit they pocketed from the sale, not to mention future profits from a happy customer. Needless to say, as it stands now, we will never again consider buying a Honda or an Acura.
It is interesting to see how many companies still bury their heads in the sand and refuse to take responsibility when there is a problem with their products. You would think that they would have learned that tackling the problem head-on is the only way to solve it (I won’t even start listing corporate disasters resulting from the opposite). It seems that companies are obsessed about not admitting guilt. Don’t they realize that we are not furious because of the design flaw, but because they refuse to put it right? Yes, the legal dept. will advise against doing anything that indicates fault, engineering/design will say that it can't possibly be something wrong with the seat, customer service will call customers “whiners” and troublemakers, i.e. “it is not our fault that your back hurts.” Senior management needs to rise above the “we didn’t do anything wrong” mentality and focus on the long term interest of the company and its customers (they are actually aligned!) Honda is in a precarious strategic position and can not afford to make serious mistakes if it wants to survive as an independent car company. I wonder if the parent company (Japan) will step in to avoid American Honda causing serious damage to the Honda brand with the ’05 Odyssey.
My recommendation is to not buy the van unless you can borrow it for a very long trip/a few days to get a feel for how the seats treat your back.
I got similar result on my 05 EX-L. That figure I think is typical for minivans. I never could get closer to EPA city number on any vehicle I have owned. So it must be my lead foot or the way they measure EPA number for city driving. Also you should expect some drop in fuel efficiency in the winter.
JNT
It's not a New Coke fiasco, and there hasn't been a huge public outcry about the seats. Have you talked to an upholsterer about rebuilding the seats?
Steve, Host
Honda’s dealing of this problem has thus far not been good. I like Honda’s focus on reliability, safety, and the environment, and I also like the van. However, none of that matters if they don’t treat their customers right and fix this problem. The interesting thing is that correcting my problem would most likely cost them less than the profit they pocketed from the sale, not to mention future profits from a happy customer. Needless to say, as it stands now, I will never again consider buying a Honda or an Acura.
Just in case your sarcasm detector was in the off position, seat comfort is an extremely subjective quality, and although there are some people who really do get backaches from these seats, if the majority of owners find them comfortable, it would be insane for Honda to re-design them in an attempt to correct the problems of the few and take the chance of causing discomfort to (possibly) more people.
Unless you have the money to buy a custom designed car, you will have to be satisfied with a design that is a compromise. What is comfortable for the average sized person may not be ideal for a short or tall person.
There are cars available with seats that are custom built for the buyer, such as the new Mercedes SLR Maclaren, but for the cost of the car, which I believe is close to seven figures, you would expect it to fit you perfectly. With a mass production vehicle, the most that can be expected is a design that will satisfy the majority of those who buy it. If it fails to meet this criteria, it will join the Nash Rambler and Ford Edsel in automotive history.
but, maybe there's a market for "designer seats" for those demanding a high degree of seat configurability or an increased feature-set (for what ever the reason).
two examples: a seat where the lumbar support could be slid up/down instead of just in/out (as has been suggested), or in addition to seat warmers, perhaps back warmer / vibration for those who frequently experience muscle / back problems and benefit from heat or massage?
<<insert feature here: i'll toss out another: perhaps small speakers in the head rest for radio, phone, or vehicle warning (obstacle detection / lane encroachment)...>>
patent time?
when you bump up against an issue that seems someone should address it - you should consider some research (marketing and technical) to see if there might be general demand for the idea and what might be feasible.
geesh - you may have hit on a good product idea for a niche segment of the population (now), but something which may be more widely adopted later
you never know.
An update on our Touring. Approximately 1500 miles, no problems except for a sticky shifter detent. My wife and I find the seats comfortable (5'8" 135 lbs and 5'9" 180 lbs respectively). She is the primary driver and loves this thing.
Things that bug me, the long reach to the steering wheel and the excessively bright instrument cluster. Turning the brightness all the way down at night (still kind of bright, if you ask me) leaves all the other illuminated items too dim.
I think that the EPA should ratchet down their estimates...perhaps trim 15% off the numbers they get before publishing.
They will say it is just for comparison and that is fine when you are comparing various new cars but what about comparing the potential new car to the real car you are driving?
If you know you are truly getting 18 MPG on the car you own and you buy a new car rated at 22 MPG, it is a bit of a disappointment when the new car actually gets worse mileage than the one you had.
I wonder if there is something like this available on the market today and whether it could be retrofitted to the seats?
It is NOT a design fault and there is no guilt to be admitted. I am sorry about your discomfort but you really shouldn't blame a company that is able to please the masses with their seat design.
That is why I'm surprised at the remaining, "what do you expect from a minivan?" attitude. We do expect a lot and that is why Honda worked so hard to provide more features and more available configurations. They listened to folks like you all posting here (and undoubtedly posting elsewhere, as well as voting with your purchases).
Like it or not, we also care about style. Yes, even in minivans (for Pete's sake!)! There are entire model lines whose only selling point it style. The pursuit of style, as in haute couture, has led to some monumental ugliness.
I also want to add my sympathies to the folks who have found they cannot tolerate the seats. That is a tremendous disappointment I'm sure. But, I'll also add my voice to those saying that it is not a manufacturing nor even necessarily a design defect. There are several manufacturers specializing in after-market custom seats because some have a need for them. Standard-height kitchen counters are uncomfortably high for shorter-than-average people, uncomfortably low for taller-than-average people and maybe even uncomfortably positioned for someone proportioned differently than average. Those aren't defective. They simply do not suit everyone. Unfortunately, that is the (albeit, very expensive) case with this minivan.
For those suffering with the seats, I suggest that you resist adding a frustrating and tension-generating battle with Honda to your discomfort. Instead please consider biting the bullet by either selling the minivan or sinking some more money into custom seats. In the end, your physical and mental health will be far better off. I'm sorry that there isn't a better solution, but sometimes life is just like that. Despite the current American mantra to lay blame elsewhere, there is often simply no place to lay the blame at all (resistance really can be futile!) and it is best not to compound anguish in an already miserable situation by "tilting at windmills." FWIW, you do have my sympathy and empathy. Sorry I can offer nothing more.
Dilbert...you a politician or something?
Though I do disagree that there is nothing that Honda can do,or should do, about the situation. Investigate the complaints...if it warrants...redesign the seat so it is comfortable to a wider range(no pun intended)of people.If currently comfortable with 92% of owners..try to make it comforable to 96%.That's the whole point of haveing the next years model,more features,more power and more comfort etc.
Oh, and I do disagree with the "resistence is futile comment".If no one complains about a percieved non-winable situation...then one is bound to surely lose.I'm sure Honda and all other car manufacturers would love this type of mentality in their buyers. If you think you are in the right about this situation with Honda...then complain and fight.It's the only way change for the better can occur. That line, by the way Dilbert, is from a Star Trek movie in which the supposedly superior/unbeatable commander of the Borg...tells Captain Jean Luke Pichard, of the star ship Enterprise, that resistence is futile.Only to get his Borg buttocks kicked 45 minutes later in the movie.
"A minivan in every garage, a garage on every house, and a house for every family!"*
* Subject to post-election reneging.
I thought the EPA numbers were only decreased by 10%. Where did you get your figures from?