Toyota Yaris

alpha01

backy, you always make good points. I'm interested to see if the Versa can really hit those mileage numbers- to date, Nissan hasnt been anything spectacular. Granted, its an older design, but the Sentra's 1.8L 5M doesnt post good numbers.

I agree... it will come down to the real availability of the side curtains on these models.

theres always the Rio 5 door...

alpha

backy

The Rio5 is a nice package but I think it's overpriced. If Kia thinks they are at the point where they can price their cars close to equivalent models of Toyota and Honda, I think they are in for a shock--or large rebates. At least they had the smarts to offer a five-door, something Toyota won't give us.

iluvmysephia1

nicely priced. With standard side airbags and curtains and an automatic tranny, the '06 Rio sedan I saw in black was only $13,900, with no 2nd sticker added. I am gonna see if it's too small for us compared to a 2006 Kia Sportage. It sure looked good, looked to be a more substantial car than the Kia Rio's of old.

backy

What I am saying is, if the Yaris sedan is close to the Rio's price, with similar equipment, I think Kia will have a hard time selling Rios w/o substantial discounts and rebates, since Toyotas historically hold their value better than Kias. But big discounts/rebates are the norm for Kias, so this may not be a big deal.

poorjudd

Since the only car Toyota offers standard with side airbags is the Avalon, it is no suprise they are not offered as standard on theYaris.

The biggest problem is that the Corrola gets better gas mileage than the Yaris.

backy

I suspect Toyota's airbag policy will change in the not-too-distant future. With Honda, Hyundai, and Kia offering standard side bags and side curtains on all of their vehicles by 2006, they may be forced to take action to keep up. The upcoming new Yaris and Camry, followed by the new Corolla, give them the perfect opportunity to do so.

fdanna

It says "up to 40mpg" with a footnote:

[1] 2007 preliminary highway mileage estimates determined by Toyota. EPA mileage estimates not available at
time of posting. Actual mileage may vary.

Soooo, it may be more or less, depending on the EPA tests (which are pretty sketchy anyway).

micweb

I disagree. It's hard to get a deal on Hyundais and Kias. H/K's customer base comes to their lots in search of low MSRP's, not taking into account actual "best out the door price."

For example, the H/K dealers in my vicinity don't offer good sales or rebates on non-stripper Hyundais and Kias.

On the other hand, those H/K dealers have more "affordable" (just looking at the sticker price) cars on their lots than at Toyota dealers.

Also, you don't feel like in order to stay within budget you had to buy the cheapest trim line or less well optioned car on the lot. Just browse the www.longotoyota.com website to see how quickly the price can run up on Corollas, Matrixes, and Camrys. H/K seems less expensive due to a bigger option package and lower sticker price.

BUT If you haver your wits about you (negotiate hard) or buy an advertised special at a Toyota dealer, you get usually get a much better deal than H/K.

For example, an office worker recently got $2750 off the list price of a 2006 Corolla LE, less than the cost of a used one! In comparison, when I got my Ford Focus ZX3, I got 2,500 in rebates and only $600 in dealer discount...which means my coworker got a better deal, since "rebates" to all lowers trade in and resale value, while "hidden discounts to aggressive customers" hides the real dealmaking that is going on. But who had the more pleasant shopping experience? Me, he had to negotiation the "whole nine yards" with much complaining from the dealer and exhaustion on his side. BUT THE MESSAGE IS, Toyota dealers obviously can make a deal when they have too - the margin is in the car.

You also have to be willing avoid optioned-up Toyotas. A lot of people let themselves get talked up the food chain; perhaps at H/K, with fewer options to choose from, that's is less of a perceived problem.

In a nutsehell, at H/K, you don't get the same discounts, but the gene pool is more affordable to start with. Thus people who are bargain hunters or penny pinchers shop there.

It's a similar phenomena in the used car market. I can never understand why people buy two or three year old used Hondas and Toyotas at inflated princes with 18% interest rates offered by the used car F&I department when new onew are the same price or only slightly higher, with 6% interest. It's all a matter of lifestyles; there are new car buyers who would never touch a used car, and used car buyers who are certain the first year depreciation, a VERY big number they know, will always end up in their pocket and not the dealers. Sometimes, though, the reality and perception don't match.

Is it any wonder the used car lots at dealers make more money for the dealer than the new car lots?

backy

I will have to disagree with you on your point that it's hard to get good deals on Hyundais and Kias. I don't think you can generalize from the buying experience in just your area--it varies around the country. I travel a lot and see huge discounts available on Hyundais and Kias in many cities. I also have had good luck getting excellent discounts off list, e.g. $4600 off my last purchase, a '04 Elantra. Price out a Corolla S or LE with leather, moonroof, automatic, ABS/traction, side bags, alloys, 6-speaker MP3 audio, spoiler, 3 years free maintenance, and an extended warranty (for the Corolla) etc. and see how close you can get it to $13k. Another example right now in my town is that I can get a base Sonata automatic for just over $15k--a savings of $4000.

Anyway... back to the Yaris.

micweb

Ok, I guess my brief foray into H/K shopping just wasn't aggressive enough.

There is a nice review of the Kia RioSX in the Detroit News....

carmen1

Got a call from a worker at the North Vancouver Toyota Dealership that the Yaris is being unloaded onto the car lot.

I can't wait!!!!!!!!!! Transit sucks!!!!!!!!!

double

Ha, yours should be right off the boat to your driveway. Mine has to be shipped all the way to the next coast then again shipped out of TO when they get it. They say this week by the schedule but I'm not holding my breath at this time. Will let you know when it arrives. Have seen another orange one and boy am I excited with the vibrant colour.

scott1256

Dealers seem to be unwilling to stock small cars with extra cost safety items.

I like Honda's strategy with safety equipment on the Civic and Accord.

Anyone wanting a Yaris with side air bags and/or ABS will have a challenge finding one.

double

Side air bags are not even in the equation but ABS is in the LE package. Should have no problem finding that. You need to look at a sales brochure. Oh thats right, you got to wait till next year. Better get out there and get a Kia or Hyundia!

backy

I can wait until next year; I don't need to buy my next car until next fall at the latest. But if side bags/curtains won't even be available on the Yaris, then I guess I will need to mosey on down to my Honda or Hyundai or Kia or Nissan dealer.

bobob20032000

Toyota should have them standard or at least optional.
Toyota seems very cheap in their options.
What all models should have standard is safety equipment. (ABS, all airbags available)

They are using 4-speed auto and 5-speed manual?
Why not invest in a CVT or 5-speed auto (may help their "up to 40mpg claim")

barnee61

OK...c'mon people. If you think Kia or Hyundai can compete with the Toyota for quality, reliability or long term durability, then be my guest and go buy one. Enjoy your Rio / Accent.

As for the Yaris fuel economy that people are complaining about, Transport Canada rates the Yaris as 41 mpg city and 51 mpg highway. And it is a ULEV on emissions. What more do you want from a non-hybrid car that sips regular gas?

A CVT or a 5 spd auto? Side curtain airbags and ABS standard? In an entry level car that retails for $13.5K Canadian (approx $11K U.S.)? Ummmmm........

You can drive a Yaris for 10 years and it will still be running well and worth something. Think the Kia or Hyundai will be running, let alone worth anything at that point?

There are a lot of good cars out there to consider (if you want the features you're talking about, step up to the new Civic or the Mazda 3....you'll pay a bit more, get a quality product, and get the features you're calling Toyota "cheap" for not putting standard in the Yaris.

I still think for the price and the market segment the Yaris is an exceptional car.

backy

If side bags and ABS were standard on the Yaris, I'd expect a starting price above $11k US. At least $13k for the 3-door. For comparison, a Rio 4-door with side bags/curtains, ABS, and A/C is about $13k.

I don't really see the need to get into another round of Hyundai/Kia bashing here. Actually I do expect the new Accent and Rio to still be running after 10 years--they are solid, well-crafted little cars. If you haven't read the reviews of them or taken a drive (Rio is available now), maybe you should before disparaging them.

If Toyota can't put these safety features as standard on the U.S. Yaris, I hope they are at least readily available as options.

barnee61

I agree with you re price of $13K with side bags, AC and ABS. That would be a totally appropriate price. Per Toyota.com, AC will the standard on the US Yaris.

I'm not bashing Kia or Rio, just pointing out the quality and reliability and durability are not on par with Toyota. I have owned a Hyundai (a 2003 Tiburon) and while it was a great car with all the toys and drove nice, it had various problems (electrical malfunctions, tranny glitches, fit and finish) which you don't usually see with Toyota. And as for disparaging the Rio, well, I have in fact taken a Rio sedan for a test drive....it was a 2003 Rio, and I found it to be extremely underpowered, cheaply finished, flimsy and unsubstantial feeling. I admit that I have not driven the new Rio5, which is supposed to be quite a bit improved.

Like I said, if you like the Kia or the Hyundai, by all means get one. But I'm entitled to my opinion as well, and I felt the Yaris was being bashed a little unfairly for silly reasons ("poor" gas mileage, no standard side curtains etc.).

In your case Backy, the U.S. version of the Yaris is probably not an option as they are not bringing in the 5 door (most unfortunate). I think this is because the US market gets the 5 door Scions, whereas Canada does not (so we get the 5 door Yaris). It's all marketing of course....

Cheers all

beantown

"As for the Yaris fuel economy that people are complaining about, Transport Canada rates the Yaris as 41 mpg city and 51 mpg highway. And it is a ULEV on emissions. What more do you want from a non-hybrid car that sips regular gas?"

I thought the same thing, until I was told here that those figures were based on Imperial gallons. In the U.S., expect more like 32 city and 40 highway.

bamacar

Exactly, it gets lower highway miles per gallon than the Corolla with the manual transmission. Good few economy, but nothing special. We will have to see on the Fit and Versa what they can manage for fuel economy.

scott1256

and the Canadian mileage test aren't identical, but........

Using the Canadian figures but adjusting for the smaller US gallon (.8327 Imperial gallons) 41/51 miles per Imperial gallon translates to 34/42 miles per US gallon.

The 2005 Echo was rated at 35/42 with manual.

bamacar

When comparing the Yaris to the Canadian Toyota Corolla Manual numbers, I got about 39/33 to 40/34 as the Yaris highway number was slightly less than Corolla and the Yaris city was slightly higher than the Corolla. It appears to mesh with Toyota's "up to 40 on the highway" statement. As you said the Canadian to EPA estimates cannot be translated directly so I related the Canadian Corolla to the Canadian Yaris to get the above estimates for the USA EPA numbers.

nippononly

at 32/41, I would like to see the lower-weight, smaller-engined Yaris come in at AT LEAST 36/45. Or at least a 40 mpg combined figure. One of the letdowns for me with the Scion cars has been the not-so-great fuel economy ratings. I appreciate small cars on their own merits, but I do expect them to have better fuel economy than large cars.

scott1256

To get really high mileage will mean smaller motors.

In the past models with a small engine didn't sell: the Geo Metro XFi was EPA rated at 53/58 but people looked at the 1.0 liter engine and said 'Huh?!'.

Maybe recent gas prices will be an impetus for change. The 1.2 liter gas engine cars in Europe have very acceptable performance.

beantown

For comparison purposes, I'm still trying to figure out how my 1997 1.6 L Corolla is only rated at 25/29 by the EPA. So much for the smaller engine = better ratings theory. Although I know I've been doing better than that, particularly on the highway. What has changed in the EPA testing in the past 5-10 years that they underestimate their numbers in older cars, but seem to grossly overestimate them in newer cars.

The new Yaris, based on published figures, will have a very similar engine and will be the same weight as my Corolla but will somehow get far better EPA numbers. Also, the new Matrix, which is far bigger than my Corolla and is 400 pounds heavier, gets significantly better EPA numbers across the board (28/34). The EPA must be using a new test.

dorlando

EPA is not using a new test yet. It is in discussion. Still using the dynomometer with slow acceleration, no stop and go, and tops out at 55mph. That is why the tests skew on the high side. Detroit doesn't want a new test that better represents actual mileage because it would cause them to have to make more small cars to meet the CAFE standards for their manufactured fleet. Detroit makes their big profit on the SUVs. Hope this helps.

beantown

I understand why they err high now, just can't figure out why in prior years it seems they "erred" low.

bamacar

It was the nasty 3 speed Automatic. The 5 speed manual got far better at 35/31 during 1997. As soon as the 4 speed auto hit, economy improved to like 36/28 for the auto in 1998.

double

Woo-hoo, car was in today and will pick up Saturday. Now we will see what this fuss is all about. 5 week delivery time!

scott1256

Fuel injection technology and transmissions have improved a lot over the last few years..

A Yaris/Rio size vehicle with a 1 (or 1.2) liter engine and 5 speed overdrive would probably exceed 50 mpg city and 60 mpg hiway.

poorjudd

I never even thought about the CAFE standards. Ok, lets make them use a new test that drops all numbers by 20% or so. That would be nice.

raychuang00

...My guess is that Toyota might be quietly working on a new I-4 engine in the 1.5-2.0-liter range that will in one fell swoop replace all the current I-4 engines now sold on US-market Echo and Corolla-sized cars.

It'll be quieter, slightly more powerful, and use less fuel than the current 1.5-liter VVT-i I-4 engine; I'm hoping that when the Yaris finally arrives in the USA it will use this new engine along with a five-speed automatic so it can better compete against the Honda Fit. (We can forget about the CVT used on the JDM Vitz because it would be too expensive to build for the USA market.)

double

Well this is trully a great "wee" car. Pick-up is exceptional and layout has so many hiding places it boogles the mind. Only have 250 KM's on it at present. It really is a shame they didn't keep the flat fold down rear seat like the Echo had. But you can get it in the ugraded RS. The mini size is going to take a bit of getting used too (3 door, 5 sp, air, LE package) and the bright orange is sure an attention grabber. Noticed in the manual it keeps referring to the US model at times so feel what we have here is not much different than what you will see down south! I would suggest that you should have it undercoated as there is a lot of exposed metal on the underside, just my 2 cents worth with that.

modelshipwrigh

We have about a 100KM's on ours and I agree with you on the pick-up. It is quiet inside as well.........thought I was doing 60 km/hr and it was really 85. We opted for the extra rust proofing as they use salt in winter up here. Our "Blazing Blue Metalic" garners a few looks as well. Nice zesty blue. So far, so good..... everything we expected.

Bill

carglow

They're advertising "fold down flat" rear seats in the U.S. version.

double

Note: Is says "available". Yes that is right but the package to get them will be the RS, not the standard CE with any LE package. That is from the Toyota .com web site for the US! :confuse:

tifighter

Official unveiling video is up on Toyota's website:

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/yaris.html

raychuang00

No five-door hatchback for USA market.

I think Toyota will watch how well Honda does with the Fit five-door hatchback when that arrives in March 2006. If it sells quickly expect Toyota to seriously look at selling the five-door hatchback Yaris or selling a variant of the Toyota Ractis "tall wagon" as the Scion xA successor to compete against the Fit.

weick

I'm frustrated with the lack of really high mpg low cost cars in the US. The last new car I bought was a 1994 Saturn SL1, I believe it was rated at about 85hp and it was a great commuter car and no trouble at all on long trips either. I would regularly get over 40mpg on the highway driving at moderate speeds.

I don't have a clue why the American market considers in excess of 100hp a bare minimum for a lightweight vehicle. I don't want performance, I want the lowest cost per mile for a reliable vehicle.

I still remember my Dad's 3 cylinder Chevy Sprint, probably would be considered a death trap today but it sure could go a long ways on a gallon of gas.

Maybe Toyota is afraid of quenching sales of it's $25K Prius if it brought out a $12K 55mpg econobox.

civiletti

The times, they are a'cahngin'. A decent car that can keep up with traffic will sell if it gets 50mpg, whatever the engine displacement.

carmen1

I will be getting my Yaris tomorrow. I promised some friends that I will take them to Whistler on its induction.

However, my 1991 Toyota Tercel did poorly on inclined highways with 4 people in it. A burning smell and reduction in power and speed is what usually happens. Once I blue my spark plugs.

I'm concerned about driving 5 people for a 2 hour trip on a highway with an incline. Each person is average 150 lbs so that will be a total of under 750 lbs I'll be driving.

I don't know car talk but will this be a problem for me with the new Yaris?

nippononly

any car with 5 doors better have a payload of at least 750 pounds! But I wonder how much it will slow down this little car. You may be downshifting a bit on the hills!

barnee61

You should be fine.

carmen1

After 4 agonizing months without a car and a crappy transit system and uncomfortable nights on my bike, I finally got my 2006 LE Silver Yaris.

I'm surprised at the pep on the start and the easy handling turning corners. But I must say the console is ugly with the round knobs. I also don't like the gear setup. Mine is an automatic and to get it into drive you share the same "shifting" with 3rd gear.

Compared to my 91 Tercel, the rear view offers less view. I use my mirrors a lot and even the side has more obstruction than the Tercel sedan. The old Tercel hatchbacks were praised for their large window views, good for parking and avoiding accidents.

While parallel parking I was surprised at how tiny this car is. Initially I thought I just had enough space to park but there was ample room left. Mind you, I'm use to driving sedan style.

When sitting inside, it feels huge. I'm not a big fan of fabric doors as this one is because of the huge amount of rain we get and you can't exactly clean it.

Still have to read my manual to see the rest of the car.

Overall, I'm just happy to have a car again. Since my parents helped me pay for part of it, they had a say in the Yaris. Personally, I like the bling of the convertible mustang.

swng

Congratulations! Your long wait for the Yaris is finally over. I am still waiting for mine. By reading your review, I can see that you enjoy your new car. You mentioned that you used to have a Tercel. The Tercel allows its driver to see part of the hood but the Yaris does not. All you see while sitting in the driver's seat is a vast view of the front. Is that a problem, say during parking?

double

No problem. Biggest problem is the big blind spot at the rear. Another is the crappy steering wheel angles that Toyota throws at you. Other than that it is a great "little" car. First tank of fuel through it and averaged 50 mpg. Thats with highway speeds thrown in at 70mph and city driving.

jordis

I am in NJ. USA and I intend to buy a Yaris when it gets here Spring time. I am a 6'3" tall guy and my main fear is that the car would be to small _front leg room wise_. Would you be so kind to inform me about this?. It is being said the front seat are high ( chair like ) to increase front leg room. I could always get it fix so the seat would run more backward, I do not care about the rear seat leg room, since I am the only one to ride the car and look for my own comfort while driving the car. Please let me know. Thanks

jordis

Would you please let me know since you are a tall person, being three inches taller than you ( 6'3" )would I fit?.
I intend to buy one when it gets here in USA, New Jersey.
I could always get the front driver seat to run more backward as I did with my Rav4, I would love to save the cost of doing that, around $ 400.00 american dollars. Please let me know if you still post.
Thanks

double

Well I'm piddly 5'8" but if you put the seat all the way back and recline it a little I don't think you will have any trouble with your long legs.lol :P