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Porsche 911



  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Thanks for the info on PASM and certified pre-owned warranty. I guess if the mark up is higher on CPO's then you have to negotiate harder and know your prices. When I bought my 2006 911 from the porsche dealer I was playing off a similar 2006 porsche I liked that was at a BMW dealer. The porsche dealer wanted $71,000 (13,000 miles). The BMW dealer also wanted $71,000 (of course, not CPO), but quickly came down to $65,000 (12,000 miles). The next day, when I was at the prosche dealer, the BMW guy called and said he would drop the price lower, so I was fired up while negotiating with the prosche dealer. I tried to get the car for $61,000, but the porsche dealer would not go below $65,000. When I got up to walk out, he threw in the towel and said he would extend the warranty to 100,000 miles and take it out to 2012 if I bought it now. I bought the car and thought I had cut a fat hog. The salesman made it sound like he was giving up the store and wouldn't eat for a week, but from reading this forum, it sounds like the CPO comes with the car anyway. I guess I'm going to have to change my user name.

    To change the subject, there has been a lot of talk about oil leaks due to possibly not breaking in the car properly. This seems to be more with the 996's and earlier. I don't remember reading about any 997's with this problem. I have a cabinet shop in my garage and have to park my 997 outside in order to work which is probably 4 to 5 times a week. Engine on about 30 seconds. The car has 13,800 miles and let's assume it was broken in properly. We usually go for a one or two hour drive on a
    Sat. or Sun. with a lot of freeway driving at 60 to 80 mph. Don't drive it during the week. I'm assuming that having the engine on for just 30 seconds is better than driving it for 5 to 10 mins. Just like not turning the engine on at all, right? Or, does it matter at all, assuming that the car was broken in properly. This stuff about the problems not showing up until 45 or 50,000 is scary. And, these guys that are having so much oil consumption on cars that costs over $70,000 is just unbelievable. Any thoughts?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    At 13k miles, your car was either broken in properly or not by the original owner. I don't think turning the engine on and off to move it in and out of your driveway is going to cause any harm at this point.

    The lesson I was given by my dealer on break in was simple. Don't turn the key unless you are going to drive the car for 15-20 minutes - i.e. until the oild temperature (not just water temp) gets to full operating level, and then keep it there for another 5+ minutes. This gives the seals, gaskets, rings and all engine parts the opportunity to full expand and contract during the break in period.

    I have 19.2k miles on my 2005 and just added my first 3/4 quart of oil since it was changed at 13k miles. I do think the 997 model addressed most (but perhaps not all) RMS leak design issues, but there were reports on RennTech of at least 1-2 owners that had RMS leaks on 997 models. Don't recall the circumstances.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Thanks for the info. Your post brings up another question - oil changes. Was the 13,000 miles your first oil change? The manual says every 20,000 miles. My 2006, which I just got a month ago has 13,800 miles. I don't know if the oil was ever changed. The computer reading shows almost full, one notch down on the little graph. I was going to wait until 20,000 miles, but what do you think? I could ask the service manager at the prosche dealer, but I'm sure they would recommmed frequent changes. I've never heard of 20,000 mile oil changes. Is it the engine or type of oil that lets the car go so long? I assume you're happy with 3/4 qt over 6000 miles? If this is normal, I will expect the same when I reach !9,000 miles.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Actually, upon further review of my records, I was mistaken. My last oil change was at 15k miles and 23 months, not 13k miles. I had my first oil change and service and done early at about 10k miles and 14 months. I was nervous about waiting the 2 full years, even though both my servicing dealer and selling dealer service managers said that it is fine for the 997. Unfortunately, I think the service technician forgot to reset the service computer and a "service due" light came on at 23 months, so I ended up doing it again. Even then 3/4 quart in the past 4,000 miles is pretty normal for a 911, perhaps even on the light side.

    20,000 miles or 2 years between oil changes does sound like a long time, but the engine holds 9+ quarts and the oil filter is a large $40+ filter. And everyone from Porsche that I talked to said that this was a specific design feature/intent of the 997 model - i.e. reduced maintenance intervals.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    The information exchange on this forum is very valuable. It gives someone like me a heads up on what to expect in the future as well as possible solutions. I guess my porsche is ready for an oil change - two years old. I don't know the in service date - in fact I do. I think on the trip computer under continuous, it shows the beginning date. I thought the information under continuous was valuable. You get an idea how the previous owner drove the car (in my case only one previous owner). My mpg was 16.1, and the average speed was, I think, around 30 miles when I purchased the car. Since I get 14mpg in town and 26+ on the freeway in 6th gear going 70 mph, I would conclude that the car had a balance of freeway and highway time. I always thought that the faster you go over 50 mpg really eats up the gas. However, because of the 6th gear (overdrive), the increased consumption from 65 to 80 mpg is very small - the rpm hangs around 3000. The trip computer dramatically shows you how stop and go can eat up the gas (obvious, but you see it very graphically on the computer). I have to shut it off when I'm in town.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    You should have recieved a complete service history when you bought the car, so there should be no guessing about the in-service date, whether or not there has been a previous oil change, and a printout of all service or warranty visits back to the dealer. Porsche keeps computer records of everything, so that if the car ever needs to go to a different dealer for service, they can pull it up the history immediately.

    If you didn't get that, ask for it. My selling dealership provides it up front on all CPO cars.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Thanks Habitat. I'm going to see the pre-owned car manager tomorrow because I never got a second key, as promised. I will ask for the car history.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Dealer said he couldn't give me the car history because it contains personal information of the seller. Didn't think to tell him to delete the personal information and give me the print out. He did look up th history and said the oil was changed and the break lines flushed when the car was sold to me at 13,400 miles. Let's see, 400 miles in a little over two months - it's going to be a garage queen if I don't get busy. The service manager told me that for the 911 with my mileage, one quart of oil in 750 miles is average and when the computer graph reading (on the dash) is at the bottom, to put in1/2 qt.. Now, if I can get my second key, which is suppose to take two weeks, but has been two months, I'll be in good shape. The dealer said since the car was certified, I wouldn't have to pay for a second key. From the picture in the manual, it looks like the second key does not have a remote control.
    Speaking of remotes, I finally figured out how to program the remote button on the headliner. Since my garage door opener in not a fixed code, I had to do an extra step and go up to the motor and push a button then go back to the front of the car with the remote or go inside the car, I forgot, to get the built in remote activated, but it now works.

    I'm a little confused about the programed seat adjustment. I was able to program the seat using button 2. Button 1 is suppose to put the seat where you want it when you open the door with the key. It didn't work, but I may not of had the ignition on when I was programing. However, what good is having the seat adjustment linked to the key if you only use the remote?

    Also, with no bluetooth, I assume the only way I can use the built in phone is to have a cell phone number just for the car. That sucks. I heard you can buy a bluetooth device, cheap, and put it on the sun visor. Also, do you know if the porsche navigation system is worth getting? I heard it was expensive and not very good. As long as I'm rambling, I saw a 928 GTS yesterday. I checked it out the the internet and saw that they were made from 1978 to 1995. I believe that GTS was only made in the latter years and that they were only 77 shipped to the U.S. in the last year of production. The car was very expensive for its time and was actually suppose to replace the 911 which was loosing popularity. I guess that didn't happen.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    The lame excuse that the car history has "personal information" of the previous owner is a crock. I'm sure it can be printed out with only the VIN number identifying the car - I've seen such a printout myself.

    At 19k+ miles I'm only using about 3/4 quart per 3,000 miles. I think that's about average for a 997 model that was properly broken in. One quart per 750 miles seems like very high consumption, based upon what I've heard from other Porsche owners, and would cause me to think that either the car wasn't broken in properly and/or that there was a leak.

    I don't think the 928 was ever really considered a likely 911 replacement. Front engine, 4 seat hatchback GT that was a comfortable highway cruiser but never came close to matching the visceral sports car feel or performance of the 911. Not only did their sales volume drop like a rock at the end of thier life, their resale value did too. According to an old KBB I have, a 1995 GTS had a base price of $86,000 new and, after three years, was only worth $51,500. A similar vintage 1995 911 Carrera Coupe had a base price of $63,000 ($23k less than the 928) and after three years, was still worth $55,000 ($3.5k more than the 928).
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Now that you mention it, that 1 qt per 750 miles seems ridiculously high. I'll be happy with 3/4 qt. per 3000 miles
  • silver1331silver1331 Posts: 2
    What kind of discount have people gotten on an ordered 911? Seems like 7% or more is standard - has anyone pushed it past that?
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    since the order you place now will be the MY2009 with more standard HP, I don't think you can get more the 7% off
  • vwguild1vwguild1 Posts: 98
    But with smaller allocations, secondary to the $.64 USD, you should not be shocked to get a great deal less...
  • larryallen707larryallen707 Posts: 174
    I have been contemplating the purchase of a 911 my whole life it seems. I have had a lot of cool cars but never a 911. Thought about it, test drove, but never pulled the trigger. Thinking about it again but trying to be "practical" also. I am a 40 year old attorney and make a fine living. I could "afford" a new one but not sure it is the best expenditure of money. I have been driving an Infiniti G35 coupe the last 3 years which is a fine car but certainly not even in the same league as a 911. I have been reading these messages boards as well as rennlist. I have made it through a couple years of old posts on here and am up to 2007 now. Have learned a lot. I have some questions for you experts. Let's say I am going to spend about $45-$40k on a C2 coupe. Probably get one about 2002 or 2003 with 30,000 miles. It may be my daily driver (20 miles each way to work) or might buy a used Camry or something to break it up a little bit. Would you pay a lot more for low mileage or not too worried about it? Anyway, really interested in what I can expect in repairs/maintenance over the years? I just bought new tires for my G35 so have an idea what big low profile tires cost (those are 19" and cost about $1,500). However, the Infiniti is only 3 years old and thus doesn't break (knock on wood). I expect some repairs with a used 911. Can people tell me their actual experiences with repairs, service, maintenance, costs of all? For example, what one might expect on "average" at 30,000, 50,000, 100,000, etc.... Also, do you know of any websites where people write reviews (good and bad) of their experiences with a 911? I checked and epinions and found nothing. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.
  • shulseshulse Posts: 11
    Buy the 911. I did, and never looked back. My situation was the same as yours...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    If you budgeted about $150 a month on average, I bet you'd find that pretty close to "real world" for maintenance and most "expendables" (brakes, tires, wipers, etc.).

    Buy the best used Porsche you can afford and book it for service regularly with a shop that knows what it is doing. Just because it says "German Auto Repair" doesn't mean they really know Porsche. One simply does not go to Jiffy Lube to say $50 bucks either.

    Porsches are the most reliable and durable high performance car you can buy, period, end of story.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Porsches are the most reliable and durable high performance car you can buy, period, end of story.

    I definitely agree.

    But is the cayenne as reliable as other porsches?If compare to other suvs
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Oh when you say Cayenne I don't think "porsche". I still can't get my mind wrapped around that. :) I have not heard great reviews about Cayenne in terms of overall reliability, no. Impressive performance, yes, but day to day ruggedness and dependability---it doesn't seem so in many cases.

    I remember the first time I looked at a Cayenne engine. I was shocked. I said to myself "OH, now I know what Porsche did with all those leftover 928 engines--LOL!"

    Sooo familiar.

    The great thing about a Porsche 911 type is that if you buy it new or slightly used and take really good care of it, it will be running years---decades---after every Ferrari or Corvette or other "supercar" has either gone to the breaker or to the restoration shop for a resurrection.

    In the long run, it's the cheapest supercar you can own, if you amortize use over years.

    A 911 may cost you $150 a month to keep happy, but a Ferrari will cost you $1.50 a mile, at least. And that's a number I have carefully researched.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I'm sorry I haven't posted for a while, and I hope this isn't a re-post, but I've got a question and I need your recommendations.

    I've got an '07 Carrera S Cab, and I need to think about Bluetooth to comply with the upcoming California law about hands-free phone use. These are my options, as I see them...

    1. I can skip the Bluetooth and add the "phone module" and purchase a dedicated phone number for the car, which seems a total waste to me.

    2. I can purchase a Bluetooth "earpiece" for when I am driving in the Porsche, but it seems to me it could be quite impossible to use when the top is down.

    3. I can have the dealer install Bluetooth that integrates into the existing Nav system. If anyone has done this, please tell me what you know about it, and if it really works well or not.

    4. I can break the hands-free law and take my chances.

    Please give me your recommendations, and especially if someone has installed the #3 choice, let me know what you think about it.


  • vwguild1vwguild1 Posts: 98
    ">link title"Tooki Bluetooth" about $650.00 plus tax installed...seamless integration with title
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    WA just passed the same law. Here's what I bought for $4.99...

    image :blush:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    So what do you talk into?

    BTW, the Bluetooth earpieces pretty much suck, even if you open a window, much less put a top down.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,583
    I can't speak for Bluetooth Integrated into a 911 Cab with the top down, but my wife's '07 X3 is equipped with BMW's factory Bluetooth. Unless the windows are closed and the sunshade (for the panorama roof) is closed it is difficult to understand her. Even if the AC is blowing hard, the bluetooth mics pick it up. I can't imagine bluetooth would work very well in a 911 Cab with the top down.

    How much time do you really spend on the phone in the car? If it is not a signifcant amount "Honey I'm running late, don't put dinner on yet," then I say fracture the law. If you do mulitmillion dollar merger deals from your cell while driving, get the integrated bluetooth, put the top up and the AC on.

    You might want to check with the lettering of the law. For example in New Jersey the police can't just pull you over for talking on your cell phone, you have to be fracturing another law in order for them to pull you over. ie: Speeding & Talking on your phone or running a stop sign & talking on your phone.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    Speakerphone. Of course I don't drive a convertible...
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    "Tooki Bluetooth" about $650.00 plus tax installed...seamless integration with PCM

    Now, THAT looks like a very good quality solution! I've contacted my dealer to see if they are familiar with this. I believe they are, because I thought I heard the service manager mention it in the past.

    I'll keep you posted. If I find out anything interesting, I'll let you all know.

    Thank you all so very much!! :)

  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    I have been contemplating the purchase of a 911 my whole life....

    I assume you have never driven a 911, otherwise you would have bought one by now. I would throw in another $20,000 and get a type 997, 2005 to present, I believe. Why not get the latest technology and most comfortable ride, not to mention a faster car. I have never driven a pre 997, but everyone says the improvements (of the 997) are amazing. I've heard that the 997 uses only 20% of the parts of the 996. Test drive both, and let me know which you like better.

    I never thought about a sports car until about 6 months ago, so I test drove several over a three month period. When I drove the porsche 911, I bought one the next day (2006 coup,13,000 miles, $65,000. plus tax and license, lot of extras). I can't explain it. Everything about the car is quality, handling, and speed. I've even heard the purpose of the horizontally opposed cylinders is to help keep the center of gravity low. I even offer to take my wife to work just to drive the car.

    You asked about maintenance. Check out the maintenance schedule at the dealer or maybe on line. Heck, you don't even have to change oil until 20,000 miles per the manual. I'm cheap and can make a dollar holler, but I'll spend whatever it takes to have a porsche. Life is too short, buy the car now!
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    I also live in California and need to comply with the new law. I called my porsche dealer and they quoted me $5000, yes, that's right, for an integrated bluetooth system with the sim card. I have a 997. The aftermarket device that attaches somewhere in the car was only $1,000 ( a $4,000 savings, Wow).

    I started looking around and found a Jabra bluetooth speaker phone at BestBuy for $80.00 which I bought. It seems to work very well, but I haven't tried it in the car. I have a coup and I don't think it's loud enough for a Cab. I started thinking, what's the difference between this device and talking on your cell phone speaker hooked to your visor. Ok, you can keep the phone in your pocket and the on button on the bluetooth device in a lot bigger (touching the face of the device will answer the call).

    Jabra had an interesting device for $129.00 that uses your car's FM tuner. You don't need a battery and the sound would be as loud as you want since it's using your car's speakers. When you get a call you turn on the radio and go to a certain frequency, which you can pre-select, so you just punch a button. The salesperson said sometimes you get interference. I'm thinking about trading in for this system. Can anyone recommend this over a speaker phone?
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,699
    I don't mean to be rude, but I don't see why people can't just handle their phone business once they are parked. I know a lot of very successful people who do it. Some don't even own cell phones.
  • diro1diro1 Posts: 1
    I'm toying with the idea of buying a 1999-2000 911 C2 with manual shift. My price point is around $25,000. Don't want to go over that to be honest. This would be a 2nd/Weekender Toy to be garaged during the week. About me: I'm not mechanically inclined besides maybe doing an oil change and other basics, I don't care to get the car on the track and I've never driven a 911 (What am I in for!?). I'm attracted to the model b/c of the value/reliability (for the years I'm interested in) matched with performance. This would be my very first Porsche and would be a HUGE present to self. Some questions:

    1. Ideal color combo is Silver or Black exterior with Gray interior. Why is this combination so hard to find in these years? The majority I've seen on are Black/Black. A few are Black/Tan or Silver/Tan. Need a tan or silver interior b/c of the heat during the summer in the dirty south.

    2. Should I consider waiting a few more years to get another year? If so, what year is ideal (keeping in mind my price point)? Again, only looking at 1999 or newer. I don't mind waiting (and saving up) for several more years if it means I'm getting a car that most enthusiasts agree is a car that is more reliable with improved features.

    3. Is there a big difference mechanically/reliably speaking between 1999 and 2000 year models? I know about the RMS issues with 996s so I'll be sure to steer away from one with this problem (getting it checked out at the dealer first).

    4. I know about the pre-inspection and have read most of the articles/threads on 996s. Any other good sites to look at?

    5. Is there a consensus around how many miles are too many? I've seen C2s with 60,000 miles to 115,000 miles

    6. Does the plain C2 come with stability management/traction control? or is that only in the C4?
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    I agree. The bluetooth speaker works very well, but I was not comfortable talking and driving in the prosche. Maybe because I have only had the car a couple of months, but it's a little more intense driving the porsche compared to my other car. I look for opportunities to drive a little faster and I'm always anticipating what the cars around me might do along with trying to be a good driver. I can't do all these things and talk at the same time, even to the person sitting next to me. When your guard goes down, your chance of an accident goes up. It's that simple.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Regarding your questions #1 & #6, my 2006 911 is GT silver with black interior. I saw a silver with tan interior when I bought mine a couple of months ago. The're out there, but black on black has been very popular for awhile. I don't know why.

    I believe PSM is standard on all 911's. Don't know if it was available on pre 997's. PASM is an option on the base 911 and standard on the S. Again, I'm talking 997's which I guess does not help you out a lot. The 997's started in 2005. The 996's went from 1997 to 2004 with the water cooled engine and the kidney shaped headlights. That web site Wikipedia will tell you more about the history of porsche than you would ever want to know.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I don't mean to be rude, but I don't see why people can't just handle their phone business once they are parked. I know a lot of very successful people who do it. Some don't even own cell phones.

    Maybe in Alabama that is possible. There is no way that in California traffic, and with my lifestyle, I could EVER conveniently just get on and off the freeway at my desire, and then find a convenient place to park, in order to take an important call. It's just plain not realistic. Not even close. Not in today's world. Not just from a business standpoint, but even a personal standpoint. I've also got a wife and kids... and life happens spontaneously. I need to be in the loop and available to my family when it is necessary.

    Now that said, I'm not one to yak on a phone while 'm driving. I don't like doing that. This isn't rocket science to me. I just need a quality functional hands-free system that will comply with the law, and give me the convenience that I need.

    From what I have learned in the last few days, I believe that the TOOKI system is absolutely the best one out there. It makes no sense whatsover, IMO, to use the Porsche telephone components that require the use of a sim card inserted into the dash. That's just plain old-fashioned and stupidly over-priced. It requires that the sim card be removed from your phone and re-inserted into the car. That's ridiculous to take apart a phone to transfer the sim card back and forth every time getting in and out of the car. Also, the idea of a dedicated sim card for the car means a dedicated phone number which means an added number to the wireless account. That's also a total waste, because the car would end up with it's own phone number that is different from my normal number. I sure don't want THAT experience. Besides, an iPhone doesn't even have a removeable sim card.

    So... Bluetooth is the answer. TOOKI looks to be the best because it fully integrates into the existing hardware, is a quality approach, and while it is a bit pricey, it is not absurdly expensive.

    I was quoted about $1100, which is made up of about half parts and half labor.
    Supposedly, it is a fully-integrated quality approach. That's what I'm after.

    In light of the new upcoming hands-free law, the idea of NOT having the capability in my car is too unrealistic and old-fashioned for me.

    My other cars already have Bluetooth connection to my phone and it's so quick and easy to answer or place a call when necessary. A few seconds, and it's a done deal.

    Simple. Quick. Convenient.

    No... I'm not about to pull out of traffic and find a place to park to take a simple quick phone call.

  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,699
    I meant more like make your calls when you get where you are going. I see your point, but I personally don't want to be accessbile all the time - just a personality preference I suppose. What did you do back in the '80s? Or what did everybody else do for the first 100 years of driving without cellphones before then?
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Hi TagMan,

    I'll give you my experience with adding these units in. We have used the Tooki system and fully integrated it into the PCM. The only thing that sticks out is a tiny microphone near the rearview camera.

    If I recall correctly, parts and labor had run around $900. It is a great system. However, the only thing that I would bring up is, Who is installing it? We have had some pretty shoddy work done by aftermarket guys and they literally tear the wiring apart leaving a Porsche that sometimes electronically malfunctions. At the very least, try and see if your local Porsche dealership techs will do it and warranty it. It might be worth the extra $200 just to have that piece of mind. Our dealership does that now. We're just tired of the issues revolving around 3rd party installers.

    On another note, the '09 911's are rumored to have the technology upgrade. This isn't official yet, but a little birdie tells me that it will be soon. Porsche is rumored to have finally broken down and included touch screen Nav, bluetotooth and Ipod auxiliary hookups with their new model (not to mention a host of other changes).

    Maybe it is time for an upgrade? Incidentally, how is the 1 Series treating you?

  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 491
    Iphone does have a removeable sim card (access from the top).

    You are right. It makes more sense to get a bluetooth earpiece or tooki than paying the "666" option.

    Here is a DIY on Tooki from

  • skobolaskobola Miami, FLPosts: 207
    When I was looking to buy a Porsche, I have found that some of the Porsche dealers were recommending Parrot Bluetooth devices, which appear to be pretty simple and inexpensive, yet they work with the car's audio equipment. I have solved my BT needs by having the BMW Assist, which comes as an option on BMWs.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Nice post. I agree. For 65K you got a lot of fun.

    But I wonder if going for new wouldn't have been better. Because Porsche has fantastic resale value , you paid 65K for a 2006. At 13,000 miles it is already more than halfway into needing four new tires for maybe $1500. What would a new 2008 have cost? What did you save?

    Maybe the way to go on a 997 is to buy it new if you want only minimal options and to buy it used if you want lots of options, with the hope that you can pick up these "used" options cheaply. I for one don't believe the sales guys when they say that certain options "residualize well". Sure color is important, but is a used 997 worth $600 more after three years because it has the $1200 Boise option that "residualizes" at 50%?

    My personal taste in a 997 would be to buy a new C2 couple with minimal options and just enjoy it. A C2 with just power seats and leather just might do it. The rest I don't see as desireable, some I see as tacky or even undesirable. The standard wheel/tire set up gives a better ride with less expensive replacement tires and less road noise than larger wheels and boots. The C4 option looks attractive for those of us in the Northeast, but how often are you really going to be driving a Porsche in ice and snow? I''d rather not decrease the luggage area, increase the weight and cost, and have larger, noisier boots in my left ear. Heated seats? Again, they sound good to anyone in New England, but really how often are you going to be out in the car on a 15 degree day? I can easily pass on the $1900 (!) "sport exhaust", no one on this board seems to think much of the Boise option, and do I really want a "sports chrono" on the dash when my $200 runner's chrono watch will do just fine? The color coded seat belts and Porsche crests on the seats are tacky. The rear wiper? Funny, no one ever talks about it. I suspect that it is a "good" thing to have and well worth the money.

  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Sounds like you got in down! I did it backwards-bought the car first and have been studying and learning about porsches ever since (about three months now). Test drove one on Saturday and went to the prosche dealer and bought a 911 on Sunday, and I'm the engineering type-usually analyze the heck out of everything before I buy. But, I got lucky, my 2006 911 coup has some options, three of which would have cost me over $10,000 if I had bought it new-GT Silver which is over $3000, full leather interior and 19" wheels. There is bose system with a lot of speakers (no big thing), power and heated seats (don't need the heat) with the driver side memory function (nice touch) and some other options. The car would have been pushing $85 to $90,000 if I bought it new(it is certified). You're right. You can't get your money out of those options. Those 19' wheels sure look good, but I would buy the S and get them as standard (if I were to buy new) along with PASM. But, man, I love that GT Silver. The shine is so deep. I was wondering if these custom colors that cost so much extra are a better grade of paint or better paint job than the regular colors? In other words, what are you paying extra for? Sorry about bragging so much about the car, but I never had anything like this in my life. I'm sure all this will wear off in a few months and I'll come down to earth. But, you're right, it's a lot of fun.

    I'm enrolled in the Porsche high performance driving school on September 9th and 10th in Alabama. Besides wanting to know the limits of the car and how to regain control, if it gets away from me, I am hoping to learn more about the S. Maybe some day I'll be able to part with this car for another porsche, but not now.

    Why aren't you people talking about the 2009's with the sequential-manual transmission and dual clutch? It sounds like a radical change from my 6 speed manual. Will it have those paddles on the back side of the steering wheel that I have heard about in race cars? I read the 2009's will be faster because of direct fuel injection.
  • vwguild1vwguild1 Posts: 98
    Fuel Straight Injection enhances fuel economy; not speed...
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Buylow, this SMG stuff with paddles in day to day use sures sounds a lot like what they already put on the 44K and up Caynenne for free.

    You know, there is a "Poor Mans Watch Forum" ( for those of us that think that a $10,000 Rolex is a bad joke and in worse taste. Because you and I think a lot alike maybe we should start a Poor Man's Porsche Forum" for people who think that options like the $500 (Porsche factory cost of goods sold = two cents) wheel spacer deal or the $1900 "sports muffler" are the last straws for any rational Porsche buyer. (Didn't JC Whitney used to have a "muffler cut out kit" for $19 so when you went by your girlfriend's house you could really let it rip?)
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    Car & - "The most notable mechanical change we expect in the 2009 911 is increased horsepower & torque, thanks to direct injection."

    Wikipedia states, "Gasoline direct injection or GDI is a variant of fuel injection employed in modern two and four stroke petrol engines. The gasoline in highly pressurized, and injected via a common rail fuel line directly into the combustion chamber of each cylinder, as opposed to multi-point fuel injection that happens in the intake tract, or cylinder port. GDI enables stratified charge combustion (ultra lean burn) for improved fuel efficiency and emission levels at low load. The article goes on to say, " The major advantages of a GDI engine are increased fuel efficiency and high power output."
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    One of the reasons we got a porsche 911 coup is that it is a awesome looking car, but yet understated. Don't get me wrong, it certainly makes a statement, but without the flash of a lamborghini,or the noise of a Ferrari. The lines of a porsche are so clean. Why mess it up with gimmicks? Of course, to make money with those high profit options.
  • madmanmoomadmanmoo Posts: 2,039
    Here's the official announcement straight from Porsche and I included a link to a Porche website that you're going to enjoy. It's very interactive and very clear. Check it out!!

    Porsche Releases Information and Photos of New 2009 911 Models
    New Generation 911s Combine Increased Performance with Better Fuel Efficiency

    Atlanta, June 6, 2008 - Porsche today disclosed photos and details for the next generation 911 model series. Four new 911 models go on sale in September in North America – the 911 Carrera Coupe, 911 Carrera Cabriolet, 911 Carrera S Coupe, and 911 Carrera S Cabriolet. All offer a higher level of performance thanks to their all-new flat-six engines displacing 3.6 and 3.8 liters respectively. And for the first time in a Porsche sports car, engines utilize direct fuel injection (DFI) and can be coupled with the new optional 7-speed double-clutch gearbox Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), racing inspired technology and a Porsche first. The result of these new technologies allows Porsche to once again boost performance of the 911, yet improve fuel efficiency by up to 13 percent as measured in the European driving cycle.

    Maximum output of the 911 Carrera with its 3.6-liter engine is up by 20 horsepower to 345. The 911 Carrera S with its 3.8-liter engine is equally impressive, up by 30 horsepower to 385. With this extra power, the Carrera S now offers a top speed of 188 mph.

    The new generation 911 is available for the first time with the new Porsche-Doppelkupplung (PDK), Porsche’s double-clutch gearbox. The seven speed gearbox combines the driving comfort of an automatic transmission with the gearshift capacity of a sequential gearbox used in race cars. Since Porsche’s double-clutch also boasts an automatic gearshift function, it replaces the former Porsche Tiptronic S automatic transmission on both the Carrera and Carrera S. PDK improves acceleration while reducing fuel consumption over the previous generation of Tiptronic S equipped 911s through optimized and adaptive gearshifts.

    Porsche developed this gearshift principle for racing no less than 25 years ago. It features two parallel clutches to eliminate any interruption in power delivery and eliminates even the slightest break between gears. Porsche factory drivers benefiting from this technology were able to accelerate faster than their competitors and keep both hands on the wheel while shifting gears, thus avoiding even the slightest distraction. This pioneering achievement from Porsche’s racing efforts now gives the new 911 Carrera and Carrera S even better performance. The Carrera equipped with PDK covers 0-60 mph in 4.5 seconds and the Carrera S reaches the same speed in 4.3 which is 0.2 seconds faster than with a manual six-speed gearbox. The customer in search of optimum driving dynamics even has the option to combine PDK with Porsche’s optional Sport Chrono Plus including Launch Control. The result is high-speed acceleration free of wheel spin from a standstill and a racing shift pattern to further boost performance. The Carrera equipped with the Sport Chrono Plus accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 4.3 seconds while the Carrera S sprints to 60 mph in an outstanding 4.1.

    Exterior enhancements of the new 911 stand out clearly through innovations in design and technology. The refined front bumper has larger air intakes which signal an increase in power and the newly designed dual-arm exterior mirrors give a larger field of vision to the rear of the car. LED daytime driving lights and bi-xenon headlights will be standard on all new models, as well as LED tail and brake lights. This gives the 911 an even more distinctive style and a truly unique look from the front and rear. As a further option, Porsche now also offers Dynamic Cornering Lights on all models. In Porsche fashion, these new refinements do not change the drag coefficient of the 911 as it stays at a remarkable 0.29.

    The latest Porsche Communication Management system, PCM 3.0, which includes a new touchscreen feature, will be standard on all new 911s. Along with this upgraded system, options such as a hard disk drive navigation system, XM radio with XM NavTraffic capability, Bluetooth® connectivity, iPOD® port, USB port, and aux jack will be available.

    2009 911 U.S. pricing starts at $75,600 for the Carrera Coupe, $86,200 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $96,800.

    2009 911 Canadian pricing starts at $95,900 for the Carrera Coupe, $108,900 for the Carrera Cabriolet and the Carrera S Coupe, and the Carrera S Cabriolet is $121,800.

    Hope you enjoy. Fantastic changes coming in September.

  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    Spring has finally arrived in New England. I am seeing lots of late model Corvettes, usually in primary colors like red or black, being driven on weekends, sometimes in groups of two or three cars. The guys behind the wheel seem to form an interesting demographic. They are usually between their mid-40's to their mid-60's and look like successful owners of blue collar companies, maybe HVAC contractors or the like. They seem beefy, as though they may have played some high school football before they went into the service and their companions are almost always well turned out blondes.

    All in all they seem to be having a lot more fun than the often-uptight Boxter or 911 cab drivers I see. Wonder why?
  • w210w210 Posts: 188
    I bought my 911 with the factory phone module. Not happy living with two numbers, replaced the factory phone module with the Bluetooth. Much better solution not having to do all the call forwarding getting in and out of the car.
  • chile96chile96 Posts: 330
    i am surprised that Porsche is making so many options standard. As witnessed by the overwhelming catalogue of trying to order one of these cars, it is a breath of fresh air when an automaker actually makes a move for the perceived benefit of the customer. Now I recognize that some may not want the adaptive headlights or other systems that are now standard options but up until now Porsche has had a brilliant marketing strategy with essentially having so many different options that they could probably build a several 997s a day for a year and not have one be identical to the other. Some saw it as nickle and diming the customer while others embraced just the notion of individuality and getting a car EXACTLY how they wanted it.

    I see it as a positive move in the customer's best interest but also cutting out about 50 pages of options from the novel entitled "Porsche Options Catalogue". However, I'm sure and know they saved probably 80-90% of their "nickle & diming" to keep their cash flow strong and their customer base happy and evergrowing. Now I just can't wait until they release the specs on the new turbo with this flat 6 instead of the tradition horizontally opposed 6 cylinder. Hmmmm,,,,,, can you imagine a twin turbo'd 8 cylinder lying beneath that tiny engine cover - I guess I can dream but I gladly pay the gas guzzler tax on that one. Maybe then I'll finally give up my tuned 996 turbo........or just add to the collection ;)

    All my best & Keep Safe
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41
    "...they seem to be having a lot more fun (Corvette owners) than often-uptight Boxter or 911 cab drivers I see. I wonder why?" ...maybe because they're cheap to replace in the event of a crash? Your obsevations are interesting. What do you do for a living?
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Heated seats? Again, they sound good to anyone in New England, but really how often are you going to be out in the car on a 15 degree day? I can easily pass on the $1900 (!) "sport exhaust", no one on this board seems to think much of the Boise option, and do I really want a "sports chrono" on the dash when my $200 runner's chrono watch will do just fine? The color coded seat belts and Porsche crests on the seats are tacky. The rear wiper? Funny, no one ever talks about it. I suspect that it is a "good" thing to have and well worth the money.

    I respect your personal opinions, but just to give you another perspective:

    Heated seats are worth every penny in my Cab. I won't hesitate to put the top down at anything over 45-50 in the early spring or late fall. But even 60 will feel cold without heated seats.

    Bose is lousy. The base (non-Bose) stereo in my 1995 Nissan Maxima produces far superior sound to my "upgraded" Bose 14 speaker system in the 911. But I bought an in-stock car at a $10k discount, so I ate it.

    Sport exhaust? Wouldn't have bought it, given the choice, but now that I have it, combined with the sport chrono, I'd be hard pressed not to order it. No "official" claims of performance increases, but it sure as hell feels quicker in combination with the sport chrono.

    Sport-Chrono. This is a must have for anybody serious about performance. Forget the chrono part (and you overpaid for a $200 runners watch). The "sport" part, which when activated noticably increases throttle response, brake response and, combined with the sport exhaust, makes the car feel at least a couple tenths quicker. After many test drives of all models, I would consider putting the $900 +/- sport chrono on a base C2 before I would pay $10k more for a C2S without it.

    Rear wiper - Now there's an opportunity to save bucks. It looks ugly and you have to be going pretty damn slow to have water sitting on your rear window. This past weekend, I managed to drive through a brief 10 minute spring rain at 50 mph with my top down and golf clubs across the back seats and I had no more than 5-6 drops of rain in the car, all from the sides, not the top. Maybe on a C4 in the snow belt, but I wouldn't consider one on a C2 coupe that isn't going to see snow.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Buylow, this SMG stuff with paddles in day to day use sures sounds a lot like what they already put on the 44K and up Caynenne for free.

    Sorry to sound like I'm picking on you, but that statement is WAY off, on a couple of counts.

    First, up until now, all Tiptronics were SLUSHBOX torque converter automatics. And, while Porsche's version of that crappy (IMHO) transmission design was better than most, you can't claim that it was anything less than offensive to someone who wants direct control and crisp performance.

    Second, that crappy slushbox isn't "free". Insult was added to injury by having to pay $3k+ more for a slushbox than a 6 speed in a Cayenne. The base V6 model can be ordered with a 6 speed manual and the actual performance is damn near as good as a V8 Cayenne "S" automatic - with better fuel economy as a bonus. The new Cayenne GT-S comes with a 6-speed manual for $3k less than the slushbox version and (again, IMHO) is the Cayenne that most deserves the Porsche crest on the hood. More so than the Turbo.

    Torque converter slushbox automatics ought to be banished from Porsche's line-up completely. And, hopefully, the newest 911 DSG transmissions will cause that to happen over the next few years. Make no mistake, I'm still a strong personal fan of the true 6-speed three pedal manual. And I think this "launch control" gimmickry is catering to the wrong crowd that still thinks stop light drag racing is the bomb. But at least with the latest dual clutch transmissions, they have put the torque converter where it belongs - on the unemployment line.

    P.S. My dealer has taken back on trade a significant number of the 911 Turbo Tiptronics he has sold since it was introduced. Almost all for manual transmisison somethings. His take is that, paddle shifters, launch control and "it's faster" marketing did little to hide that the Tiptronic has more in common with a Buick than a Ferrari F1.
  • buylowbuylow Posts: 41

    Thank you for the information on the 2009's. The information on the prosche web site was very interesting. Just a couple of questions,

    Porsche talks about the new generation. Does this mean that the 997 is history?

    Are the new transmission and clutch offered as options only (answer may have been on the site, but I missed it)? If so, do you have any idea as to how much?

    Do you see this new trans and clutch ever totally replacing the 6 speed manual, or is it more like replacing the tiptronic?
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