Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

qbrozen

i hate posting them all separate like this, but they just keep popping up.

If I was in the market for a good commuter sled, this would be top of my list.
MX3 5-speed

Mr_Shiftright

914s -- okay, the one car is a typical 914 abused neglected worthless rat, so forget that.....the 914/6 is a clone with some bad taste bodywork. A genuine 914/6 is quite rare and fairly valuable (for a 914 I mean) and a handful to drive...with all that power and a mid-engine layout, you'll spin faster than a top if you get careless.

Shifty's 914 -- yep, I have a deposit on a car that's being built. I get to decide on it (first right of refusal) when it's done. It's black on black with a very built up motor, probably to 2.2 liters with special pistons and cam. Pricey at $10K but all restored (to a nice street standard) and rebuilt by a pro. 914s are great fun and still formidable in X-cross and SCCA racing.

Alfa GTV 1974 -- well this car is obviously set up for vintage racing, so at $13,000 I'd say it's a very good buy if that's what you want to do with your time. You couldn't build a vintage race car for $13,000. It'll be sold in a red hot minute IMO.

Mercedes 300TE 4-Matic: The good news is, if the car isn't a scam, is that it is priced about 1/2 retail; the bad news is that it is a 4-Matic, which is notoriously troublesome. However, this one did go 200K, so either the seller has a pile of repair orders larger than the Manhattan phone book, or he's had better than average luck with a worse than average model. Might be a good deal, check it out.

Mecedes 190SL -- looks like your typical 190SL piece of junk. Well, do the math. You can buy a stunning one for $30,000--$35,000, and you ain't getting from THAT to a #2 car for $8000 + $22K budget in restoration. Actual value? Depends on where the chrome parts are. The 190SL grill missing on this car is the exact same grill as on a 300SL Gullwing. Do you want to buy a new one of those? I don't. Why ANYBODY wants one of these cars is a total mystery to me--it's just a 4 cylinder Mercedes 180 sedan underneath, that's it. A sheep in wolf's clothing.

Audi 80 -- Audi bottom ends (crankshaft, etc.) share the same remarkable durability as the Saab 900, but both cars also share the same remarkable lack of durability in every other part of the engine. 500K miles without a rebuild? Only in your dreams.

63 Falcon -- might be worth buying actually, but the words rust and 'door hinges' in the same sentence sends chills up my spine.

"and the door hinge's connected to the door frame, and the door frame's connected to the frame rails, and the...."

'92 BENZ -- hey, sometimes a car beats you up so bad you just have to get down on your knees and BEG!

qbrozen

d'oh! I skimmed right over the 4matic part of that ad. I was just so excited to see a benz wagon of that vintage at that price. Ugh. I'm not interested in the added complexity of AWD on a luxury beater.

ok. i guess, like you said, if you WANT a vintage racer. I guess that's just not my thing. I mean, I like racing ... but I like my classics as original as is possible and practical. (unless we're talking an all out hot rod that's basically 95% NONoriginal.)

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, the GTV as it is built isn't a street car. It'd beat you up. But vintage racing is quite popular and generally not viciously competitive (if you touch another car in the race, you're out for the year). It's a very pleasant way to blow $500--$1,000 a weekend (unless it blows up) and you're on the same track with million dollar cars. So unless you want to "win", it's pretty cheap fun, and Alfa owners are great sports. Of course a lowly GTV will not get you invited to prestigious vintage races or re-creations.

qbrozen

I've often thought of taking the spider to the track. sure, its slow, but it does take turns pretty darned well.

I'm just afraid it wouldn't take the abuse at this point in its life.

Mr_Shiftright

You'd have to at least pass the technical inspection. Some vintage racers just loaf around the track and have fun. You don't have to beat the car to death--but you do have to stay out of people's way.

fintail

That 4-Matic TE does seem cheap, even for a model so notorious for failure. If you have record of maintenance or replacement...might be a worthy gamble. IIRC 4-Matic didn't get sorted out til many years later.

That hilarious possessed W140 with the crooked star in its cheap pimpy grille is a good laugh

And that secondary (tall) scoop on the Falcon is aftermarket, and not as old as the car I am sure.

fintail

These seem somewhat uncommon...all it needs is Elvis

Nice 560SL

lemko

I can just make it out on the electronic odometer in the dashboard pic - 114,042 miles.

qbrozen

oh. hey. i think you're right. seems like a good price with that number, doesn't it?

what else is lit up on the dash, though? Seems like P for Park, but what's the E? And is that just "Park Brake" on the far right?

Mr_Shiftright

It's not "way below book" though. Maybe way below fantasy book, but it's spot-on private party retail...well, maybe a few hunnert cheap.

Good car the 735, but alas, one major component failure and you're buried for life. $2,500 is fair for both parties.

british_rover

but...

Thought you guys might find this interesting.

MG's to be built in US?????

qbrozen

That IS interesting.

Just what do you get when british and chinese engineering meet?

Mr_Shiftright

That car has no connection or heritage to MG---it could say Toyota for all it matters....

fintail

"Just what do you get when british and chinese engineering meet? "

Like the Adobe...German engineering and Mexican know-how

fintail

This interests me somehow, it might have period AMG accessories, like the side skirts and spoiler. Looks to be wearing dumb 92 style wheels though, and of course the wheelarch trim

british_rover

Austin Healey basket case

Triumph basket case

I know pro-street is so dead but I always liked the idea of a pro street wagon.

What do you think about this car as something to convert into a rally car or rallycross car?

Or a potential drag car sleeper.

british_rover

I found a bad bad website for me.

http://www.rallyclassified.com/index.php/cat_id/10

Mr_Shiftright

Ow...break my heart...I love the Triumph 250GT...the TR6 engine with the TR4 body.....perfect!!

Unfortunately, this one is an awful mess. I agree, total basket case. Lunatic-certified restorers only need apply. Invest $25,000 and have a $12,500 car when you're done!

Yeah, he "didn't have time"...riggghhhhhht....what happened is he took a close look at everything and said "phew, not for me, thanks!"

Value? Parts.

lemmer

The seller has rerun this MGB a couple of times. His buy it now has dropped each time. How close is he getting?

I am a little gun-shy of the QB/Shifty tag team beating up on my MGBs, so I am not even going to guess a value on this one. I do love the opinions.

By the way, my friend and I are headed to Tallahassee to see two early '70s MGBs on the 22nd. They are both priced at $14K, so they better me pretty close to perfect or be prepared to deal on price. (One is the modified blue one from eBay that I posted a few weeks ago.)

british_rover

I had never seen one a 250GT before but I did really like it pity it is trashed.

qbrozen

I'm feeling like $8500 is pretty accurate for this one if its all there (maybe $500-$1k high). Really would need to get my hands on it, though, and check it out thoroughly. That's the problem with trying to figure out the value of a classic car by pics and description alone. It could be worth more than $8500 or it could be worth significantly less.

Shifty would point out that, as usual, the seams are missing from the back panel, so you need to sniff out the bondo and find out what is going on there.

Big question is, WHEN was this "restore" done?

fintail

Ancient AMG...almost kinda cool in its own way

Early 126...wildly optimistic seller who thinks he has something...interior looks decomposed

Same seller has a nice 107, also very optimistically priced

The dumbest thing on the local market

qbrozen

I'm not sure I understand the Ferrari.
What the heck is it? Is it one of those Fiero body kits?? Is that what is underneath this one?

The interior looks like hell, I don't know what he is thinking when he says the upholstery is $3k. I can get better fitting (and looking) seat covers from Pep Boys for $39.99!

The dash reminds me of a toy soldier that has been assaulted by a 4-year-old with a magnifying glass. I haven't seen that many waves since my last trip to the beach.

british_rover

Yeah it is a Fiero kit car.

A bad one too some of them almost look ok.

qbrozen

so... how does one tell a tranny is good when the car isn't running? Is it like a zen touchy-feely thing or do you call in the tranny-whisperer to talk to it for you?
'87 supra

good to know all that about the inside. Does that mean there is a big hole in the engine or what?
probably a bogus audi listing

I don't care what that is on the door, that's a deal .... ok ... what IS that on the door??
cheap accord

hmmmm... what's a fair price on this
bimmer wagon

stickguy

If that was a 5 speed, I would snap it up (if it is as represented of course) for my son, even though he can't drive until next June!

I think on the door it is the result of some DIY body/putty work that was never painted?

stickguy

I love those wagons. Slim odds of it being a stick, but it is possible.

Not sure an 11 YO 150K BMW is a good idea, but it is pretty cheap!

qbrozen

anybody got $40k they can lend me?
http://www.autoshopper.com/viewfull.asp?ID=1640579

Mr_Shiftright

'66 MGB -- yep, I'd check it really carefully for bondo. Obviously from his ad we understand that some people have looked at the car and left disappointed.

'66 is not a great year, as it still had the non-synchro 1st gear transmission. So if there's any noise in 1st gear, you can be sure you're in for an $$$ repair bill. Door fit sucks, too, engine compartment restored with spray can.

I agree, on paper at least seems overpriced by a good $2K. Need to eyeball it.

FERRAR-I-O: LOL! Look at the size of the disc brakes on that thing!!! The detailing is awful. What a joke.

fintail

The fake Ferrari is listed, then someone lists a real one

Franken-jag

A nice color can make a difference

Mr_Shiftright

Franken-Jag: You, too, can turn a $40,000 car into a $15,000 one, in the privacy of your own home!

Ohhhh...an E-Type automatic that sounds like a Fox Mustang...just what every buyer wants....

Yikes!

british_rover

The jag made me cringe. Is that Ferrari anything near market correct price?

Mr_Shiftright

Looks like average retail to me, yes. It should sell at that price if it checks out. Mileage on a Ferrari has to be low. Once you hit 60,000 or so, it's basically a parts car as far as pricing is concerned. so this car has 47,000 good miles left in her before the acceleration of depreciation breaks your spine in twelve places.

lemko

Love the 1970 Chevrolet Impala Custom. My Uncle Daniel had a beautiful dark blue one when I was a kid. I loved how Chevrolet did the taillights in the bumper from 1968 through 1970. I like the '70 design the best.

andre1969

that I never really cared for on cars was when they did the little peaks between the headlight bezels on cars. Big Oldsmobiles were known for this in the early 70's, and I think the big '73 Dodges did as well. However, even though the '70 Impala does it too, I still think it's a beautiful looking car, and incorporates that little feature flawlessly.

Did they offer the 1970 Chevy with hidden headlights? IIRC, it was an option on the '68 and 69 models.

qbrozen

Is there any hope for this diesel passat?
Let's say the bidding tops at $500, for instance. I'm seeing $350 for a windshield, a few more bucks for some trim here and there ... don't know what a new mirror would cost, but considering it should be body-color, that's a bit of a problem. Maybe just replace both with black ones? AH... but now we come to the AC and electrical gremlins. Yikes. I dunno. Its STILL a diesel, and we know how the market is gobbling these up right now. Is there any chance of coming out right on this car?

Mr_Shiftright

Older Passats are pretty bad cars. That's another one of those perennial, incurable lemons you couldn't give to me for free.

I think the enchantment with diesels is fast a-waning, except for heavy work trucks. The cost of diesel fuel, which at least in California easily exceeds premium fuel prices, negates any fuel economy advantage, and as for running on veggie oil, that honeymoon seems to last for about two weeks.

There are old diesels and new diesels and a world between them in efficiency and reliability....I think the old ones are just old clunkers in a 2006 world. Small TDs getting 50-60 mpg, well, that makes sense.

qbrozen

I guess all the current diesel fanatics are in my neck o' the woods. Its the cheapest fuel going here. Add that to the increased economy and it can save you ALOT of money.

andre1969

in California? Here in my area of Maryland, it's common to see Diesel for $2.85-$3.00 per gallon, while gasoline is around $3.10/$3.20/$3.30+ for 87/89/93.

michaellno

If I were to go down that path, it would be a Jetta Wagon or Passat Wagon (of course, if I had enough money, an MB E-class diesel would be nice, too).

But, at our closest station, diesel is as expensive as premium, which is, I believe, .20 or .30 more than 'regular' unleaded.

lemko

No hidden headlights on any 1970 Chevrolets. I love the 1970 full-size Chevrolet's front end because it reminds me very much of a Buick.

Mr_Shiftright

You won't save any money though because the old diesels just break down all the time--you'd need a brand new diesel to make it work I think.

Yep, diesel popularity is all tied into fuel costs. They make no sense whatsoever where I live (which is why I ditched mine BTW).

Let's see...diesel fuel is probably 20% higher than 87 octane, which I use now...so if my car gets 37 mpg, I'd need to have a diesel getting...what...about, oh, 44 mpg--45 mpg for me to just break even here. An old Passat or old Benz diesel isn't going to do that, but a new VW TDI would.

lemmer

Reluctant seller of a Saab 9000 with a tree on it.

Mr_Shiftright

Gee, buddy/seller, just go buy another one for $1200 and stop crying.

andre1969

had a brief affair with Diesel back in late 1996/early 1997. He bought a used 1994 GMC 3/4 ton, 4wd pickup with a 396 turbodiesel. We lost track of how many times that thing went back into the shop for repairs. It was never the engine or driveline itself, but all the peripheral crap, like computers, sensors, emissions crap, etc.

He finally got fed up with it, and that may traded it on a new '97 Silverado V-6.

british_rover

the we will have to wait for the truly modern Euro diesels to come to the US before things really catch on here.

Who wouldn't want a midsized turbo diesel that makes close to 300 hp, over 400 lb-ft of torque and gets over 30 mpg?

michaellno

...did the diesel thing back in the 80's -- at the time, they had a '73 Toyota Corona, which I totalled one morning on the way to school.

To replace it, my dad found a '72 MB 220D. Don't remember how much they paid for it, but I do distinctly remember it going in for an engine rebuild not long after we got it.

We kept it for several years after that. I swear, that was (and probably will be) the slowest vehicle I ever drove. I think it had 65HP and weighed north of 3000 pounds.

Mom hated it .. hated to wait for the glow plugs to warm up so the car could be started, hated the stiff throttle spring (my leg got numb driving it up I-5 for vacation one year), hated the smoke, the smell and the noise.

For Christmas one year, I got them a personalized plate ...

REAL SLO

They eventually sold it and bought a Celica.

lemmer

If the rebuild and paint job are good, this 912 looks like a good buy.

'84 911 seems a tad cheap.

This '81 911 SC is low. Has the price of 911s in Atlanta dropped recently?

Cool looking 914. For the price, it should be no excuses. How does this compare to the future Shiftymobile?

If this guy was truthful in his description, his 914 deserves a much better picture.

Mr_Shiftright

Geez, a lot of nonsense being posted in the Porsche ads these days. 0-60 in 5.9 seconds on a 911SC....er...maybe with a JATO strapped on the back....a Porsche 914 getting 44 mpg? Is this in a vacuum being pushed down the Alps?

Porsche 912 -- Price is just about right, looks like.

The 1981 and 1984 911s -- it's hard to know if these are bargains or bloodbaths. Fer instance, if either of these cars has a rear main oil leak, the oil seal is removed and replaced from INSIDE the engine (oh yes). So a $10,000 Porsche leaking through this seal is actually a $2,500 car.

If both cars check out top notch, then they are good deals by about $2,000 to $4,000 dollars. But....BUT...if they need some work, that $2K to $4K advantage is quickly eaten away. Both cars sound good but visual inspection and a cylinder leakdown test are mandatory.

Case in point. My friend's '88 Cabriolet ran strong but had a raggedy idle. We did a cylinder leakdown and had a 40% drop in two cylinders. Tore it down and found lots of carbonization in the cylinder heads from the LOW mileage and non-use over the years. And yet if anyone drove it, they would never have noticed probably.