Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

steine13

...I been looking all over for you.
Usetobe on another board.

I posted this on CCBA, so my apologies for the double.
I think I'm gonna get this for a lark:
http://lansing.craigslist.org/car/181442318.html

Bees in the fuel filler door are included. Oh dear.
-Mathias

Mr_Shiftright

Hey you wanna run that in our big race coming up in October?

http://24hoursoflemons.com/

ghulet

...I know these with a five-speed are 'unusual', but I somehow don't think almost four-thousand dollars so:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/182217485.html

ditto this (without the five-speed):

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/182142110.html

Not sure what this guy thinks he has, but I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be $2000 ultimately (I mean, how much are these in nice condition?):

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/181969483.html

The scariest looking Acura Legend ever. Shame, too, as the five-speeds, again, are hard to find:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/181945732.html

Very low price, but is there any such thing as 'minor maintenance' on a W140? (wow, apartment dwellers in Indiana have some mighty fancy cars these days, note the CLK Sport in the background):

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/181628802.html

steine13

That is hilarious! I love the rule where they can buy your car for $500 at any time. That's pretty clever.
Reminds me why I moved to the States... Boneheads with a sense of humour... Heaven help us.
-Mathias

british_rover

Oh man if I lived out in that part of the country I would do that for sure.

This is similar to $2006 challenge that Grassroots Motorsports puts on.

http://www.grmotorsports.com/news/category/2006-challenge/

steine13

$2006?
Hey, a great way to adjust for inflation ;-)
-Mathias

british_rover

Yeah I think they started it in the year 2000(use your futuristic Conon O'Brien voice) at a 2000 dollar limit and have bumped it up one dollar ever year since.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes the 24 Hours of Lemons is similar, but we fully intend to destroy as many cars as possible===the 2006 Challenge seems more toward drag racing and autocross, whereas we are going out on a real road course. This is definitely going to be Survival of the Fittest, Last Junker Standing type of thing. The brick test should be interesting for those with low oil pressure.

We're car hunting, but as a semi-official I am not eligible for prizes. My plan is to tailgate other cars and make them burn their brakes up early in the race.

british_rover

GRRRRRRRRRr that sounds like so much fun. I am already thinking about what kind of cars would be good canditates for that race.

You can find beater honda Civics all over the place around here for less then 500 bucks.

Mr_Shiftright

The supply of victims is endless. For this "project" I think a person might choose a car for qualities of endurance rather than speed or handling, so that has "Japanese" written all over it. Or maybe an old full-size pickup truck, if you can endure 12 hours of that around a track.

Also a car that you can maybe patch up in the pits.

I think a beater BMW 325 might be perfect as well, since having all the power windows not working and the check engine light on all the time (the BMW night light, I call them) is irrelevant....and you'll need a car with a strong engine (BMW's forte) for the dreaded brick test. American motors aren't keen on high RPM.

british_rover

Yeah I can't think of many american cars that are going to be cheap enough to make it through that kind of punishment.

Maybe a older H-body car from the late 80's early 90's might be ok. You can find a lot of those vehicles with lower miles as they were typically driven by older people. The 3800 engine in them is strong although its top end is not stellar. I would probably want to replace the timing chain in one for some added insurance as the chains do stretch towards the end of their life and throw off the ignition timing.

Mr_Shiftright

maybe an old Dodge taxi cab or something, or a beater F150 pickup or Ford Exploder.

british_rover

Hmhh an F-150 with the 4.9 inline 6. I don't think ford made a more bullet proof engine then that.

fintail

LOL at the button tufted seats in that Cressida...those always seemed out of place somehow.

I bet that W140 needs an AC evaporator, possibly valvetrain work, and maybe a wiring harness - all trouble spots on those cars. 400SE is also an odd duck - V8 SWB, not really a classical "big body" car. Not cheap to fix - best bet always is to find a pampered genuine car.

fintail

Sounds funny.

In 1995 CAR magazine did something like that, called the "Crap Car Cup". It had an economy run, a track day, resale, and something else I forget, with a limit of 250 GBP. I think a Renault 9 won.

fintail

C43 with many not-so-awesome add ons...hate the wheels...

andre1969

I never cared for those button tufted seats in the Cressida, either. IIRC though, if you got the velour upholstery, the seats had a more modern looking pattern? Or maybe they were button tufted too, but just didn't look as pimpy in cloth? Kinda odd too, because I never figured the Cressida from that era to be an old person's car, but those leathe seats give it an old fogey aura, which tends to crossover to pimp.

I always thought the 2nd gen 929 was a very sexy car, but it has one of the world's worst driving positions, at least IMO. The tranny hump takes out a large portion of the foot area, forcing your legs together, But the steering wheel does not tilt, and it's too low for my tastes, so I'd have to sit in the car with my knees spread out, but my feet crammed together, in kind of a bowlegged position.

I remember at the time, the salesman telling me the reason that the 929 didn't have a tilt wheel was because it had an airbag. And I believed him. And totally forgot about the conversation with time. Until a few years later, when I bought an '89 Gran Fury, with an airbag AND a tilt wheel!

qbrozen

that's great!

rule 1.6 is the best one:
Your Car May Be Destroyed At Any Time: In addition to accidents and other unfortunate boo-boos, during the course of the race, one car may be selected by blind ballot of all registered participants for immediate removal and total destruction. It could be your car. It probably WILL BE your car. Them's the breaks. Don't bring it if you ain't OK with losing it.

I think this means, DON'T take an early lead.

qbrozen

I've been reading the writeups on the '07 Benz. I'm trying to figure out how I can justify $50k just to get the new bluetec. 0-60 in 6.6 (tied with the E350), built like a vault, nice highway cruiser, and gets 37 mpg. Pretty sweet.

qbrozen

hey, look at that, ghulet already found an entry for the Lemons race!


The scariest looking Acura Legend ever. Shame, too, as the five-speeds, again, are hard to find:

link title

fintail

Another case of diesel greed

fintail

I remember back around 86-87 a friend of my dad had a Cressida with that interior. This guy couldn't have been more than around 35 or so either...I rode in it once, it stuck with me as being so out of place, for the car and the owner.

That 2nd gen 929 sure looks ahead of its time stylewise anyway.

ghulet

$3500 for a twenty year-old Isuzu diesel for which you'd certainly have an adventure finding parts? Uh, yeah. At least the MB diesels of that era (for which sellers are equally greedy) are somewhat 'pretty' (think W124 300D turbo, if you can find one). Jeez.

My mom had an '86 Toyota Cressida, briefly (put 50k on it in a year and a half--she was a 3Com salesperson; she put 50k on the '84 Camry she traded for the Cressida as well), sold it to a co-worker, who JUST put it out of commission w/about 300k...it had a similar button-tufted interior, but in blue/gray velour, which is at least a bit less pimpy. I remember riding in that car going 115 in the rain on I-294 with my brother driving (17 year-old boys are STUPID, in case we don't remember). They were nice cars, but not too roomy, not good in snow or rain, hogged gas for their size--typical RWD, fairly powerful car nitpicks. Still, comparable, at least on paper, to a 5-series BMW of the era, in many ways, for half the price, and super durable/reliable, if a bit silly with the '80s Japanese gizmo-laden interiors.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah well he'll be buying his truck a birthday cake every year unless he lowers the price to about $750. Diesel bunnies may hop to a bad deal but they aren't that stupid.

fintail

The best thing about that Trooper is that when you read the ad, you notice the transmission is bad. Probably not an easy part to find $3500 for a well-used 20 year old diesel nail with a bad tranny.

Might be a good deal on a transportation car

It's not a 61, but it still looks pretty nice

andre1969

I like that '62 Fleetwood. The '61-62 Caddy is on the (admittedly long) list of cars I'd like to own someday. It's also one of those cars where I wouldn't even care about the body style. While a convertible or 2-door hardtop would be better, I even like the 4-door hardtop.

hwyhobo

It's not a 61, but it still looks pretty nice

Wait, is that the same Caddy in both pictures? In one it's blue, in the other it's grey.

fintail

I think the Caddy pic is just different angles and lighting.

It does look neat, BUT when you say "no British rust" it makes me think "Lots of Dutch rust"

These are kind of pretty

Just like my first car, sans the engine type, crease in the fender, and color

andre1969

looks to me like it's kind of a pearly bluish gray, with the slightest hint of purple. If that makes any sense. :confuse: It definitely does look different in the two pics though. The rear shot is taken from the "shadow" side, and the front shot is taken more with the sun beating down on it, which makes it look a bit different in hue. I've seen that alot with cars when I take pictures of them at shows. I don't have the best camera in the world, so I usually try to take the pics on the "sunny" side.

rik4

i have some replica 100 bills do you think he will take them for the replica ferrari

fintail

Another Datsun pickup

This is the bad year right?

qbrozen

Well, I see the guy's problem. He's trying to fix the poor thing with a Bentley manual!
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/182814606.html

Mr_Shiftright

Datusn Pickup -- looks like a good deal.

'76 BMW 2002 -- these aren't "bad", just slow and ugly.

'87 Jetta -- I think about $35 is the right price. I don't think I'd like to meet his daughter.

lemmer

Semi-projects

So give me your opinion on the following trade:

2000 Lexus RX300, gold with tan leather, 124K miles. Interior is clean, but overall in slightly below average condition due to various scratches on the plastics and the leather. It still has a lingering smell in it. Needs about $1000 in body work (and it will have some light scratches and dings afterwards). Just put in new floormats and new RX400H wheels and tires. Mechanically good with all service done, new brakes, etc. One owner before me (a friend of my wife). I have $8,920 in it, if that matters.

Other car is a 2000 Honda EX V6 sedan with 124K miles on it. Tan leather interior isn't perfect, but nicer than mine. Mechanically great with receipts since day one. The dark green exterior has a couple boo-boos a paintless dent guy could get and a good knock to the rocker panel/lower door. You could probably make the exterior great for less than a $1000. It got a brand new transmission at 40K, and been great since. Two owners, both friends of mine. Most importantly, it does not smell bad.

This guy is a great friend, so nobody should get an upper hand on this deal. So what is the cash difference between these two paragons of excitement?

The point of all of this is to give me more cash (and leverage with the wife) to buy an additional fun car for me.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably $4,000--$5,000 difference, advantage Lexus. The Lexus has outstanding resale value whereas the Honda will depreciate rapidly, therefore making it difficult to recoup any rehabilitation costs.

In other words, you put $3,000 into the Lexus you'll get $3,000 more. If you put $3,000 into the Honda, it's pretty much lost.

Given this reality, the Lexus is worth more today, tomorrow and forever IMO.

dirkwork

My dad owned one of those diesel trooper 5 speeds! LOL

You had to REALLY like having a diesel, as it was horribly slow, even for diesel standards, even with the turbo. Between the cost of batteries, fuel filters, extra oil, and the maintenance (book called for regular valve adjustments and re-torquing head bolts). You could hardly to 65-70 mph with the thing between the brick like aero, the low gearing and limited rev of the diesel.

Mr_Shiftright

A friend of mine had the Isuzu "PUP" diesel pickup. Driving it was like doing hard time for a crime. It was a nasty engine. She solved the diesel engine revving problem by punching a rod right through the oil pan.

Somehow this type of diesel reminded me of the kind of car they would MAKE you drive in the old USSR.

qbrozen

$4k sounds about right. $10k lexus vs. $6k accord.

fintail

Oh, I am sure a Lada would be more pleasant. At least it had Fiat genes.

How were those little VW Rabbit pickups with a diesel? I liked those when I was about 5...

"exterior body is in good shape except you need a new bumper cover and head light and passenger side fender" = "it's been wrecked"

Well, it *looks* nice, but still has an aura of money pit

Finally, a correctly priced diesel

Mr_Shiftright

Hmm...those 944 seats look a little "furry"....might be an okay buy for the money. Once again, have it checked or bear the consequences.

VW diesel pickups: Well they are economical and handy, so that's a plus, but they are slower than slow and very cramped inside. I think if one was cheap enough, it would be a good yard truck for the dump run. Bring your St. Christopher medal with you on freeway on-ramps.

ghulet

Aren't decent, turbo '95-96s (IOW, the generation after this) about this price?:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/182955271.html

Let's see: four-door=wrong body style, 'S'=wrong engine, with the usual litany of SAAB quirks for how much? The only positives I see here are the working A/C, new clutch, an OK body and low miles, none of which are any guarantee of a joyous ownership on something like this (believe me, I've owned a couple). I think the seller will have a hard time finding a buyer at half that price.

bumpy

Okay, I can't let that slanderous attack on the Isuzu diesel slide. My dad had an '85 diesel pickup. It wasn't fast, it wasn't refined, it wasn't luxurious, it didn't have a power steering pump, it didn't have a 5th gear, it didn't have a radio (my dad put one in). It got 40 mpg, and that was good enough. Sadly, the rest of the truck wasn't as tough as the engine and the frame eventually rusted out badly enough that you could put your hand through the side rails. He parked it when the driveshaft started chattering and sold it to someone who wanted to put the engine in his boat.

fintail

For the brave

For the even more brave - interesting steering wheel

ghulet

The SEC doesn't look half bad for the price; of course, one big issue and you're in double, never mind the gas mileage. Oh yeah, and 184hp isn't quite as impressive in a two-ton car as it seemed twenty years ago.

The Rolls is just silly, I don't see a viable upside at all, except as an expensive, if somewhat pretty, lawn ornament.

This isn't exactly exciting, and it has a few issues, but you could hardly argue with the price (doesn't mention a year, but it looks like a 'later' version, judging by the front end), and it's a 5-speed V6 with an inoffensive paint color...perhaps the perfect beater. The broken fuse box--how much could that cost (I like how he mentions no air and no radio, the stuff of most beaters, but come winter, it won't have a heater or rear defrost, either--oh yeah, does it have lights if the fuse box is broken)?:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/183207121.html

steine13

The clue is right in the ad.. $900 instead of the $1600 BB value because of ... [laundry list of issues].

Easy. Buy a "perfect" one.

As far as this idiot: He forgot to list the year. I'm impressed. CEL been on all the car's life? Gimme a break.

In general, though, the Contour with the 6 and a stick is a great beater car, if you can find a nice one.
A NICE one.

-Mathias

Mr_Shiftright

'74 Rolls -- ohhhhh, a custom steering wheel from something befitting an MG Midget isn't a good sign on a Rolls Royce....and 46,000 miles is a LOT for one of these cars. Just enough to wear out everything that will cost about $24,995 to replace. To the buyer: May God have mercy on your soul.

Benz 500SEC -- great ride for the price. Drive it until something big breaks; park; remove license plates; vanish into night. I'd buy it if it checked out (but I mean REALLY checked out).

fintail

The sunroof cars always end up neglected...good thing I don't have a big garage

"Classic"

FJ40 alternative

Rare fintail option...I'm almost tempted

stickguy

I don't care if the Celica is stretching the definition of a classic, I want it. I loved those cars, and should have got one when I got out of college. I think they were a little pricey at the time, and by the time I could afford to buy new, they were well into the FWD models.

I could be happy with it as a toy, and my sone could learn to drive on it. They are nothing if not robust.

qbrozen

i think the asking price is pretty darned high. Better be in IMMACULATE condition for that kind of money.

I do love the 22RE (and 22R), though. Best Toyota engine ever, IMHO.

Interesting that its an '84 with the electronic injection. From what I remember, my brother's '84 pickup was still the carbureted model (well, i definitely remember it was carb, but what i'm not totally sure of is that it was an '84, but i'm pretty sure). When I got my '87 4runner with the electronic injection, we were quite impressed with the improvement in power over his 22R (considering my truck was heavier, it could outrun his).

lemmer

Those Celicas are slooooooooow. The engines are torquey, so they don't feel so bad, but I wouldn't even try to drag race a clapped out Odyssey packed with brats. Come to think of it, probably the Celica probably couldn't take the Odyssey on an autocross course either.

The free-revving '86 was a huge improvement. Too bad they lost RWD in the process.