Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

qbrozen

that first link is busted ...

BUT, whereas I like the old Broncos ... for a teenage son? First car, I presume? YIKES!! Now, granted, I looked at one myself for my first car ... and wound up with a CJ7 instead ... but I think the roads are a different place these days (not that this was all that long ago ... and, probably, more likely, they aren't that different except in my mind since I don't feel I'm as invincible as I used to feel ... and since I actually need to get to where I'm going these days. LOL!)

by the way .. on that second one, what the heck does this mean? 37 buckshots
Is that how many holes they shot in it??

lemmer

I fixed the link. You are really fast. Don't you have some work to do this morning? Obviously I don't.

37 buckshots - they are 37" tires. Buckshot is either a brand or a type of offroad tire. I am not sure which.

My friend is a bit of a country boy. His logic is that a big old truck like that can't get going too fast. I have asked him about safety features as well as the obvious braking and the handling questions, but he doesn't seem too concerned.

qbrozen

Haha! No, I'm all caught up on my work at the moment (stayed late last night to make sure of that) ... waiting for the floodgates to open any minute now.

well, he's right about not getting going too fast ... but has he thought about the other things you CAN do with said truck? My brother and I both had good off-road vehicles in our youth ... and I can't begin to tell you the stupid things we would do with them. Yeah, we couldn't get hurt going too fast on-road, but we sure as heck got hurt going too fast off-road.

lemmer

The 944 guy sent me an ebay second chance offer to buy the car for $5500. It might be worth it, but I will probably hold out for something without a brown interior.

Mr_Shiftright

I would personally never buy a Porsche without eye-balling or having someone look it over.

I heard of a nice clean 944 for sale. I'll call on it and let you know.

REPORTING BACK---oh, it's a 924S....sorry......apparently a very nice car but still, it is what it is.....

lemmer

924S from '87 or '88 - that is almost the same thing as the 944, but with the old interior and no fender flares. How much does he want for that? Or, more appropriately, how much is a nice 924S worth?

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, you know I forgot, you're right, a 924S is in fact all 944 drivetrain and chassis with a different body and interior.

Basically what Porsche did was use up all the extra 944 inventory by creating a new model.

Story on this car is: it's beautiful, serviced at the Porsche indy shop, and it has some extra goodies like CAI and special throttle body---shop says "it's a great car and it rocks".

So, there you are, $4,500. But not a project car. It's done already. Sports Car Market Price Guide spots a #2 car at $4,500-$6,000.

If you want, I'll go drive it for you.

lemmer

The car sounds nice. What are the colors?

I don't know how much shipping would be from CA to AL, but I fear that it would be so much as to make the deal ineffective from a cost standpoint.

lemmer

original Bronco

Country boy Bronco

andre1969

in original form. Even with that tacky period burnt-orange paint. Makes it a cool piece of 70's Americana. Be a shame to see it get all butchered and rednecked-up! Are those seriously the going prices for those things nowdays?

lemmer

Those are the two cheapest I could find in Alabama. A lot of people are trying to sell Broncos with some needs for closer to $10,000.

Mr_Shiftright

Old SUVs like that sell for only two prices....all fixed up real purty for a fairly high price, and real low price for a fixer-upper. Anyone trying to sell a vehicle like this with needs for a strong price in the middle somewhere is going to be sucking wind waiting for a buyer---because all they've done is become discouraged with the project themselves.

Mr_Shiftright

Colors are red exterior, black interior. Car looks great except for a couple road chips on the nose and the seams of the driver seat cushion (bottom) have split. I'd rate the car as a high #3. Mechanically it looks top notch---clean engine, very meaty tires---miles are good about 113K or so.

Probably would cost $880--$1,000 to get it out there. If you flatbed it you don't have to pay Calif. sales tax so that's $300 you "save" (of course you'll have to pay 'Bama taxes, whatever they are). So maybe if you offer $4K, pay shipping, pay your sales tax, get the seat fixed, register the car, you're in total $5,500...that ain't bad...you'd get that as a payoff on a theft or third party total.

lemmer

You almost have me talked into it, but I am still kind of thinking that for $5,500, I think I would rather hold out for a 944. Buying a cross-country car makes me a little nervous anyway.

lemmer

you have to check out the extra pictures that show the interior. Why would someone offer over $1K for this kit?

sweet T-bird with a sweet model

surely this Volvo is worth $100

qbrozen

#1: oh man! those interior pics were DEFINITELY worth the wait to download!

#2: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

#3: Ok, first time was funny ... 2nd time is just punishment. I do like the car, though ... if only I could see a clear pic of it.

rorr

Re: T-bird and 'model'

I'm speechless. I don't think I can ever look at late '60s T-bird the same way again.....

edit:

I took a look at some of the other offerings by 'suthrn girl' (yeah yeah yeah, I'm fascinated by accidents too....) and found this jimdandy item. Seems appropriate somehow...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bigfoot-Sightings-of-East-Central-Alabama-book_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcateg- oryZ378QQitemZ4566823124QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

fintail

Two Grand, and it only needs everything, and it's been neglected. The seller is on crack

This would be a good hobby car for Pontiac fans...you'll be the only one in the show with one

lemmer

The BMW only wobbles at speeds between 65 and 110 mph, so that is a plus - the only plus I see.

qbrozen

Bimmer: Oh yeah, the drivers airbag doesn't work either
And we found this out how??

Pontiac: Now this looks really cool. I would think easily worth the money, no? I love this comment, though: lots of power, 3-spd standard (93 HP).
How the heck do you equate 93 hp as "lots"??

jlawrence01

**The BMW only wobbles at speeds between 65 and 110 mph, so that is a plus - the only plus I see. **

If it wobbles at 65 mph .... well, let's double the speed and see how it feels....

Don't want to be on the road at that time.

stickguy

I like the Volvo, although the color is nasty. Actually looks fairly sound, and could be a reasonable DIY project, maybe even a GT type build up. At least the car is real simple.

The model scares me. She looks like one of the vampires in a cheesey horror movie you find on channel 87 at 2:00 AM.

That kit car is weird, but I would be interested in seeing it in person, and with a paint job. Probably not for the faint of heart.

The BMW should be drained and dropped on an artificial reef.

The T-bird I wouldn't go near, but I don't like them in the first place so no loss.

gsemike

I was wondering how Chyna was making her money these days

gsemike

Becoming a new homeowner and needing a second car for not too much money, I've been offered a 1993 Buick LeSabre with 114k for free. The car is basically straight but rough around the edges.

I'll drive it everyday for about 1 mile each way to the train. What do you think are the chances of getting a couple of relatively trouble free years out of it? What are the trouble spots on the car?

Thanks,

Mike

Mr_Shiftright

Here's my take on situations like this:

First of all, I'd take it and drive it vigorously for 1/2 hour and see if it breaks. Does it overheat? Does the heater work? AC work? wipers work? Are the tires ready to shred? If not, all this is a very good sign. Then I would proceed as follows:

1. Car is free, but even free, no car is worth it if it isn't reliable. Who wants to walk home at midnight, or freeze to death in winter or have to get into the car from the passenger side?

SO.....

2. I'd invest $100 to have the car given a thorough going over for safety items and impending repairs.

3. Once I have this list, I'd look it over and decide a) what can be deferred indefinitely, given the car's limited use b) what can be postponed a while until we see how the car is going to perform and c) what needs to be done immediately.

4. Presuming that we have determined that the car is not a death trap, the question becomes----is it worth X dollars to make it safe and more reliable?

5. Once I have the full inspection in hand, I can answer #4 intelligently.

andys120

What've you got to lose? If it breaks going to or from the train, you can walk home.

Mr_Shiftright

Well for one thing trying to get rid of a broken AND shabby 1993 Buick is like trying to get rid of two tons of landfill.

I tried to get rid of a non-running 1986 Mercury Sable and absolutely, positively could not give that car away to anyone. I even put a big FREE sign on it with an explanation of what it needed.

I finally had to rent a flatbed AND pay a recycler to take the car into the yard. $130 to dispose of it legally (I don't like to abandon vehicles on public roads, I find it anti-social behavior).

I think this car would be the same headache if it had a major breakdown.

Fact is, in 2005 America, a 10-15 year old car of common mass-produced origin, and of pedestrian genetics, with a major component failure like bad engine or transmission, is literally worthless except for scrap, and turning it into scrap costs money, too.

fintail

This is dopey, but at the same time, I kind of like it

I think this is the same old Caddy I saw awhile back

Mr_Shiftright

The Fiat would be great fun to drive I think--might be worth the money if the mods are really well done, but if someone offered him $3K he should take it.

The Caddy is hardly "rare and collectible" except in the owner's dreams I fear. Value? Maybe $2,000, tops. If you can't do better than $2K in 28 years, chances are you are not going to be collectible in anybody's current lifetime. But it would be a decent ride for cheap. Why do I think the owner thinks he's sitting on a gold mine of some sort? Don't shoot the messenger.

hpmctorque

"Fact is, in 2005 America, a 10-15 year old car of common mass-produced origin, and of pedestrian genetics, with a major component failure like bad engine or transmission, is literally worthless except for scrap, and turning it into scrap costs money, too."

How can you say such a thing about a fine motor car like a '93 Buick LeSabre, a car which one day will become the rage of Pebble Beach?

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, well I'll be long dead by then :P

It's not so much that it's a Buick...any slightly banged up piece of early 90s American iron with a frozen motor would be equally unappealing to buyers I think. Ditto 80s. It wasn't our Golden Age you might say.

But beats walking if the car runs and is for free.

gsemike

What I found out is that the car has a two year old transmission, 3 newish tires and a not ancient tune up. The current owner is a woman who drives it 7 highway miles to work.

It has a slow coolant leak of undetermined orgin and the AC blows hot.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I figured that if I hit the papers and carig's list for something under $2k, would I have any more conidence in whatever I got as opposed to this? Not really unless I got lucky, so for free I'll see how it goes.

hpmctorque

If the coolant leak is coming from the intake manifold, it should be repaired promptly. Otherwise, the engine's days are numbered. The 3.8's plastic composite manifold is the weak spot of this otherwise bullet proof engine.

I understand that this issue has be remedied in the new 3.8s

Mr_Shiftright

Might be that intake. If she blows white smoke, of course, that's real bad.

But your logic is basically good...you can't really buy a decent looking totally reliable car in America for under $2,000 anymore and really more like $3,500 on up if you want something where "everything works", and it doesn't look too shabby and its not a vicious gas-hog. I mean 8 mpg @ $3 a gallon would make even a "free" car expensive mighty quick.

(Let's see what that works out to per mile....ouch .37 cents per mile!)

bumpy

"you can't really buy a decent looking totally reliable car in America for under $2,000 anymore"

That's true for larger cars, but you can mid-90s Sentras and Corollas around here for that, and unembellished Civics if you're willing to go back to '93 or so. California is probably different.

Mr_Shiftright

I kinda doubt it, not a car that is free of needs...I mean you may indeed find a car that RUNS and looks okay for under $2,000, but it'll have needs that would require $$ to put into my criteria of "totally" reliable.

Or to put it another way, a clean good running car selling for $1,500 that needs tires all around, one headlight and a driver's window regulator is in fact a $2,000 car if not more. These are items that can't be ignored.

If you're willing to "go shabby" then the equation changes---cars with body damage, etc., can run just fine but of course are worth very little.

fintail

Here's a car...I need to get a pic. My dad just picked up a 70K mile 1 owner 1976 Datsun 610 sedan, red with grey interior. Automatic, little else, dry eastern WA car. He paid $150 for it and says he's been enjoying it for the past week. Claims he's getting 30mpg too.

I am guessing it looks like this

This is kind of an Andre-mobile

"VIP" must mean something other than very important person

Mr_Shiftright

Cutlass looks pretty good---might be worth the price.

The VIP might be ready for the wrecker unless it is maybe super super sharp in every other respect. Rebuilding a 383 with a rod knock means a new crank, so that means a short block, so that means $3,500 on up by the time you're done getting all the other pieces on it. (belts,hoses, mounts, service, labor, blah, blah).

Datsun 610 -- not a good car but you can't beat the price.

fintail

I posted the VIP as a joke. Kind of a funny name for a car that at the time was big 'n cheap.

Somehow, that 610 seems right up my dad's alley. He seems to like some oddball cars. He wanted the 510 wagon I had for a short time, but he had too many cars as it was. I've told him to detail it and he could probably sell it to some Datsun nut for a good markup.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably he'd be searching a long time for a Datsun 610 "nut". I'm not sure where the local chapter of the Datsun 610 Restoration Society is in his area---best to market it as a cheap ride that you throw away when it breaks. If it runs okay he could get $750 for it without doing anything else to it. Just flip it fast...okay, vacuum the dog hair and empty the ash tray.

ghulet

I have a friend who is selling his '93 (I think) SC2 for $600--claims everything except the power sunroof works, even the A/C. It's a 5-speed, has manual windows and locks, factory stereo. I don't know how many miles are on it, the tires looked OK, body was fine, it was even in a non-objectionable color (dark blue with gray cloth), which is always a 50/50 gamble on old Saturns (I've seen too many in aqua, purple and that sort of pinkish burgandy). I really hadn't planned on buying a car, don't especially need one, but at the price, it'd be OK to have one around for when the roommates are both gone with theirs. Also, it's good on gas (which is now OVER $3 a gallon at some stations near me). I'll have to check it out further, drive it and report back. Not my choice of cars, but I'm sure it's a good sight nicer than any $600 Honda or Toyota I could find (I know, I had one!).

fintail

Ha Shifty...maybe to an orphanage for ugly cars.

He was actually talking about selling his town-runaround car (a strippo 94 Ram with vinyl seats/manual windows etc) and keeping the Datsun, as the mileage is so much better. I guess someone has to like it.

If it's mechanically sound, and starts/stops, you probably can't go wrong for $600. Many simple parts on newer cars cost more than that,

Mr_Shiftright

You could give it the old "under $1,000 used car test" which means take it and drive the hell out of it for 1/2 hour. If nothing breaks or leaks or starts shrieking in agony it's probably a good car. It's hard to mask bad problems in a 1/2 hour vigorous road test.

gsemike

I appreciate the feedback, but here in NY, a truly decent Civic or Coralla can not be had for $1500 or $2k. Especially with the Civics getting scooped up by the fast and the furious crowd, I'm amazed at how many 10 yo, 100k cars are going between 4 and 5 grand. A dealer guy in my neighborhood has a 95 Corolla with 108k for $3800. It's a decent enough car, but I'll go with the LeSabre for free.

The Sentras do go for less than the other two cars, but they're also never clean by the time you get into the 10 yo range.

andys120

I did one of your "drive it like you stole it" road tests on an old Firebird I was thinking of buying and quickly found out it had bad motor mounts. A hard stop resulted in the motor moving forward enough for the fan to chew up the radiator!

Good brakes but no sale.

Mr_Shiftright

The drive it like you stole it road test really works for old cars. I remember one time I took a car out for a road test and as we approached the freeway I said "I'm going to take it on the freeway up to about 60"....and he looks at me wide-eyed and says: Nooooooo! Don't do that!"

The look of sheer terror on his face convinced me not to try.

jaserb

I was helping my brother look for something "cheap and cheerful" to drive around for a couple of years. Unless you're willing and able to do some mechanical work I really think you're looking at $3k+ before I'd have any real confidence in a car. I looked at a lot of $1-2k beaters that I was afraid to drive around the block. My current daily driver is a 1992 Dodge Ram 50 4x4 - rebadged Mitsubishi. Bought for $1500 a year ago, and immediately had to put a junkyard transmission and new clutch in. Since I did it myself it was still cost effective. Since then I've done a lot of little things - new tires, timing belt, front shocks, some niggling electrical issues, even got the A/C working - and it's really pretty good now. Looks good, drives fine, and it has the utility of being a truck, and a 4x4 to boot. I drive it everywhere - but it took a bit of work to get it back in decent shape. If something expensive goes wrong I'll dump it for parts.

Back to my brother. We finally found him a really nice looking, super well maintained '91 Maxima for $3100. It has 130k miles but looks and drives very well, and has had tons of recent service done - brand new Michelins, A/C charged, new alternator and battery, T-belt, hoses, tranny flush, the works. I'm confident he can get another 50k out of it, where some of the other cars he drove - like the $1k '94 Protege - I doubt he could get another 50 miles out of. That Max was a real find, as most other cars that were that solid and ready to go were in the $4-$5k range.

My rambling point? Take the free Buick. You're not getting something more reliable without spending some real money.

-Jason

lemmer

Since I like to spend other peoples' money, here it goes:

qbrozen

Shiftright

Fintail

Andre

Jag up for grabs

qbrozen

haha. Thanks, but WOW! that's insane! 225K mile 18-year-old celica for $4K??!! And the reserve isn't met!! heck, i could probably find a younger and lower-miled 3000GT for that kinda dough.

andre1969

that chick just can't stay off those cars! I see, in looking at Fintail's "project" that the T-bird from earlier doesn't appear to have moved.

I do kinda like the "project" that was assigned to me, but I think I'd rather get one that's more complete. Plus, I never cared for that 1970 Coronet nose, it's like they were trying to ape Pontiac or something!