Not worth all that work. You'd spend $10000 to have a 5000 car (at best). Just go buy a nice one.
Oh I know it would never be worth it to fix up. I just like those things, that's all. I wouldn't mind driving something like that around as a beater. Say, for days where I feel like driving a '76 LeMans, but don't want to take my good one out! Although I know that's not the best use of financial resources...buying, insuring, and maintaining a $650 beater just to keep the miles off a car I only paid $3,000 for. And it's not like I'm running the '76 I already have into the ground, anyway. In April, it'll be 4 years since I bought it, and I've only put around 3,000 miles on it.
When I was a kid, my Mom had a '75 base LeMans, like that one in the ad you posted. It had the big, triangular windows in back like that one, which I like, but as a kid I HATED that front-end. I didn't like the single round headlights, and thought the beak was too big. It's kinda grown on me now though, and I don't mind it so much.
I see that '75 is in Maryland, too. Are you trying to tempt me, Shifty? :P
well sure, as a $650 beater the car would be more than worth it if it ran well. The trick is to NEVER start fixing it up cosmetically. As long as you can keep it safe,warm and dry, that's all you should ever do to a 76 Pontiac Lemans.
Or, you could build yourself a resto-rod/resto-mod. That can be fun and then at least you'd have something worth more than a stock '76 Lemans.
With cars that are not collectible, you have the reverse of the usual situation---you can actually enhance the value of some old cars by making them into something they never were or could be----lifting them out of their mediocrity/anonymity, so to speak.
Yeah, I don't really care for those wheels and tires, either, although they could be worse, I guess. With a car like this, you can't go wrong with a set of Pontiac Rally 2's, and in the 4.75" on 5 bolt pattern, those things are a dime a dozen, relatively speaking. Much easier to find than the 5" on 5 bolt pattern that my '67 Catalina uses.
Every time someone posts an Alpha I start understanding q a whole lot better. That particular one would be more work than I could ever want but I love the basic car and that color is perfect.
Queens - couldn't give you a detailed account but the Willets Point section looks like a real dump. Funny thing is the city wants to do some serious work on it because it's right where the Mets play but the locals like it the way it is.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I always thought that roofline was gorgeous. But I think it does work better on the bigger Mopars. I'd love to get a '57-58 DeSoto or Chrysler 4-door hardtop.
I'm not seein' any beauty there but of course this is all subjective. It appears very awkward to me. I don't see any coherence. It doesn't "say" anything to me. It's chaotic-- a collision of ideas.
I think the only versions of the '57 Plymouth that looked awkward were the 2- and 4-door sedans. The passenger cabins and rooflines just seemed too big for the car. There's a reason for that, though. In 1957, to save on costs, the same basic body was used across the Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler lineup. Well, on a 218 inch DeSoto or 219-220 inch Chrysler, it was all in proportion. And on a 214 inch Dodge, it still seemed okay. I think the '57 Plymouth was only around 205" long...it was actually a bit SHORTER than the 1956 Plymouth, although it certainly didn't look it.
Anyway, on the stubby Plymouth, that was just too much roof!
The hardtops were much better balanced, because the passenger cabins were shorter, and the roofs were lower. I think the hardtop passenger cabin had about 4" less legroom in the back seat, and a slope to the roof and rear window that probably ended the passenger cabin overall about 7-8", compared to the sedan.
I actually liked the 4 dr sedan better than the 4 dr hdtp, I think because its big roof and oversized six windows just added to its over the top modern styling. The 57 Plymouth was a very clean design, much better than the Dodge IMHO. I think the 57/58 Mopars looked best in coupes or convertibles with those dual fin antennas (much nicer than those dual antennas hanging on top of the Merc windshields). Many of them still look good today, particularly the Fury, Chrysler 300 and DeSoto. Funny, I remember as a kid that the 57 Fury coupe was a very common dime store toy car ( I guess the Japanese liked them too!).
I think GM did the best looking 4 dr hdtp cars, while Ford and Mopar did the best styled wagons during the mid 50's - 60's. They all put out some beautiful coupes and convertibles though during that era.
The 57 Ford was actually a decent looking car in its time, maybe better than the 57 Chevy. But the Chevy's were light, so they were quick and I think that explains their popularity. Also, I think the 57 Chevy had less tinworm than the Ford and Plymouth, so more of them may have lasted longer. I think all three got a touch of the ugly wand for 58. None of them looked better than their predecessor. Plymouth faired the best of them.
I also think the 55/56 Mopars are under appreciated. They were good looking cars, but the new Chevy engines kind of took everyone's attention during that period of time. IIRC there was also a price war between Chevy and Ford during that time that helped ratchet up sales.
People seem to be reading too much into what I put in the description of my 911. Below is what I write followed by what they read -
Nickel sized spot of oil after sitting over night = needs a new engine Small puff of smoke on startup if sits for a week = needs a new engine A few scratches and dings consistent with age = needs a paint job Headlight squirters don't squirt = no accessories work
That is the extent of what is wrong with the car, but mentioning these things seems to scare everybody away. I am considering revising the ad to something less verbose. What do you guys think?
Yes you do, I think, need to re-word things a bit:
something in car freak "language"---generalities not details. It's hard to run with a generality, but with a detail the imagination, being focused, can run amok.
"This car is a condition #3 'clean driver' "
(or 3+ if you think so).
THAT'S IT!
Once they come to look at the car, it's up to them to scope it out and make their own judgments...or, if they wish, they can ask you things over the phone.
As for the puff of smoke, this is after all a boxer engine and what you are experiencing here is perhaps a very slight leakdown of oil through the valve stem seals.
Air-cooled Porsche engines are bullet-proof! They can easily go 250K miles or more. They are indestructible engines, one of the world's toughest, longest-lived engines in existence. (we aren't talking about the water cooled 996 here, however---ahem...).
And, really, as a potential shopper of such a vehicle, I would already know all of those things you list before even seeing the car. I mean, think about it, if someone comes to look at the car and says "hey, those headlight squirters don't work," is that really someone you want to deal with?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I've tried to list every thing that is wrong with the car even though it is 23 year old "driver" condition car. I figured people would want to know all the details since a lot of the potential buyers are pretty far away.
I know now that you guys are right. If I was a little smarter, I would have asked for advice before I started marketing the car.
Hey, sometimes the "put it all on the table" approach works but I think in the case of selling an old Porsche this is not the best way to present the car. Your approach would have been more appropriate, I think, in say an eBay auction, where you don't want the car kicked back after sale, or where you don't want to be answering 100 e-mails. People read it, bid or don't bid, and don't bother you.
But in an advert, I find it's better to first get them interested in the car--once they are interested, they are far more tolerant. You have to "get them in the game" and then you can dance with them. (mixed metaphor) :P
I've tried to list every thing that is wrong with the car even though it is 23 year old "driver" condition car.
A few years back, I tried to sell my Chevy plain-jane SWB work truck. Very little interest. When I expressed my frustration to Terry (RRoyce10 of blessed memory) he told me, don't list "short wheel base" in the ad. Don't list anything, in fact, that will turn a buyer off. "If they ask, it's a short wheel base. If they don't ask, never mind." And I thought I'd been helpful with a detailed ad...
Sure enough, the gentleman I sold the truck to a week later said, he didn't really want a shorty, but now that he'd seen it, and with the condition and the price, he figured he'd better take it.
Yes, the price is high on that tii, but he's already advertising he'll discount for cash...tempting, but I think there'd be a lot more vintage BMW wrenches in the bay area than in DFW.
On that first one, he says "too mush to list." Yeah, it's mush alright, and I hate that phrase even when it's spelled right = LAZY. You got a car to sell; then make a pitch!
On the second one, who in their right mind is going to buy a souped-up Mustang II for anywhere near the money he's put into it?
original v6 german engine about 100 hp car is great for a show engine could use a cleaning
What the F does anyone care if the 100 hp engine is German or American?????? It's a dog. The nicest V8 mustang IIs on Earth are tough to get 10 grand for.
What do we say??? Take some better pics and hope to get 3 grand?
AND it's an automatic besides. I don't think the guy is going to see the other side of $5000 on this one. Ironically, even the real King Cobra II he aspired to isn't worth what he is asking.
Too MUSH MUSHTANG -- aside from never seeing his investment back, who want to drive that....that...THING....on the street anyway. What is that ducting in the passenger seat all about?
Re; QUEENS: I lived in Glendale, right near Jamaica. Not a bad part of Queens as things go, but it's kinda tough, kinda blue collar. There are a few nice areas--if you see Forest Hills in a CL ad, that might be a decent car that had some care.
is that an air cooled vdub engine in the back? i like the seller wiped out the licence plates in all the pictures, except #7 which is reflected in the left wind screen.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Junk Eldo -"Car was restored with $5k spent on paint 10+ years ago :confuse: Why would a 10 year old car at the time require restoration. Who cares about the paint if it's all peeled now.
61 MG Midget --- at $2,500, it's about $2,000 overpriced. You can buy these real nice for $4K-$5K and Pebble Beach for $7,500.
1961 Saab --- might be worth the asking price. These are highly respected collectible cars these days, regarded as FWD pioneers and aerodynamically charming. The 2-stroke engine had better be okay, though, as it runs a roller bearing crankshaft, and if you need a new one, it's going to double the price of the car, because you'll have to make one most likely.
84 Cadillac Biarritz Conv -- a "future collectible" that's been a future collectible all its life. The future--future seems to recede as the now--future becomes the present. This could go on well into the 22nd century at this rate.
Renault Gordini -- cool car, might be worth the money just for the weirdness of it. Probably fun to drive.
78 Merc Wagon -- big old wagons are starting to be worth some money, but 1978 models are pushing the trend and might be too new to cash in.
31 Studebaker --- rat rod, good idea for this car.
Guys, can anyone recommend a good 4WD supply house? I need new rear suspension bushings for my 97 Pathfinder and the dealer only sells the complete links, not just a bushing kit.
Even better, can any of our internet slueths send me a link for a busing kit?
The Boxster S is by far the most advantageous deal for you financially, if indeed you only have to kick in a few thousand. If it's really nice it should bring $17,000 easy. So you are okay there, and it's certainly the best driving of all the car you either have or have mentioned.
The guy's original email said mid teens for the Boxster. Next email he slipped it up to mid-high teens. So that means $17.5, I am guessing. And I suspect he wants my car at $12-$12.5, and there is still the matter that the car is a ten hour drive away. So the deal lost a bit of its luster. The wife is really pushing me to acquire some sort of car with a usable back seat first anyway. I suppose she is right.
Comments
Oh I know it would never be worth it to fix up. I just like those things, that's all. I wouldn't mind driving something like that around as a beater. Say, for days where I feel like driving a '76 LeMans, but don't want to take my good one out! Although I know that's not the best use of financial resources...buying, insuring, and maintaining a $650 beater just to keep the miles off a car I only paid $3,000 for. And it's not like I'm running the '76 I already have into the ground, anyway. In April, it'll be 4 years since I bought it, and I've only put around 3,000 miles on it.
When I was a kid, my Mom had a '75 base LeMans, like that one in the ad you posted. It had the big, triangular windows in back like that one, which I like, but as a kid I HATED that front-end. I didn't like the single round headlights, and thought the beak was too big. It's kinda grown on me now though, and I don't mind it so much.
I see that '75 is in Maryland, too. Are you trying to tempt me, Shifty? :P
Or, you could build yourself a resto-rod/resto-mod. That can be fun and then at least you'd have something worth more than a stock '76 Lemans.
With cars that are not collectible, you have the reverse of the usual situation---you can actually enhance the value of some old cars by making them into something they never were or could be----lifting them out of their mediocrity/anonymity, so to speak.
Queens - couldn't give you a detailed account but the Willets Point section looks like a real dump. Funny thing is the city wants to do some serious work on it because it's right where the Mets play but the locals like it the way it is.
hmmm... is that good or bad?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I don't know but it is different....
I'm prejudiced. i spent years 6 through 13 in one - a Custom Suburban.
Anyway, on the stubby Plymouth, that was just too much roof!
The hardtops were much better balanced, because the passenger cabins were shorter, and the roofs were lower. I think the hardtop passenger cabin had about 4" less legroom in the back seat, and a slope to the roof and rear window that probably ended the passenger cabin overall about 7-8", compared to the sedan.
That blue and white hardtop for sale is a nice color combination in my opinion.
I think GM did the best looking 4 dr hdtp cars, while Ford and Mopar did the best styled wagons during the mid 50's - 60's. They all put out some beautiful coupes and convertibles though during that era.
I also think the 55/56 Mopars are under appreciated. They were good looking cars, but the new Chevy engines kind of took everyone's attention during that period of time. IIRC there was also a price war between Chevy and Ford during that time that helped ratchet up sales.
Nickel sized spot of oil after sitting over night = needs a new engine
Small puff of smoke on startup if sits for a week = needs a new engine
A few scratches and dings consistent with age = needs a paint job
Headlight squirters don't squirt = no accessories work
That is the extent of what is wrong with the car, but mentioning these things seems to scare everybody away. I am considering revising the ad to something less verbose. What do you guys think?
something in car freak "language"---generalities not details. It's hard to run with a generality, but with a detail the imagination, being focused, can run amok.
"This car is a condition #3 'clean driver' "
(or 3+ if you think so).
THAT'S IT!
Once they come to look at the car, it's up to them to scope it out and make their own judgments...or, if they wish, they can ask you things over the phone.
As for the puff of smoke, this is after all a boxer engine and what you are experiencing here is perhaps a very slight leakdown of oil through the valve stem seals.
Air-cooled Porsche engines are bullet-proof! They can easily go 250K miles or more. They are indestructible engines, one of the world's toughest, longest-lived engines in existence. (we aren't talking about the water cooled 996 here, however---ahem...).
And, really, as a potential shopper of such a vehicle, I would already know all of those things you list before even seeing the car. I mean, think about it, if someone comes to look at the car and says "hey, those headlight squirters don't work," is that really someone you want to deal with?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I know now that you guys are right. If I was a little smarter, I would have asked for advice before I started marketing the car.
But in an advert, I find it's better to first get them interested in the car--once they are interested, they are far more tolerant. You have to "get them in the game" and then you can dance with them. (mixed metaphor) :P
A few years back, I tried to sell my Chevy plain-jane SWB work truck. Very little interest. When I expressed my frustration to Terry (RRoyce10 of blessed memory) he told me, don't list "short wheel base" in the ad. Don't list anything, in fact, that will turn a buyer off. "If they ask, it's a short wheel base. If they don't ask, never mind." And I thought I'd been helpful with a detailed ad...
Sure enough, the gentleman I sold the truck to a week later said, he didn't really want a shorty, but now that he'd seen it, and with the condition and the price, he figured he'd better take it.
Funny business, used cars.
-Mathias
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1046083231.html
He's asking 2005 prices for #2 car, and it's 2009 and a #3. Please adjust accordingly.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/1044681143.html
Edit - danger, no interior pics....
The sedan looks pretty decent...most of those I see around here are beat to hell.
Not looking to lose money on this project Who wants to break it to him about his $12,000 investment?
On the second one, who in their right mind is going to buy a souped-up Mustang II for anywhere near the money he's put into it?
Bike - $1000. Call 205-XXX-XXXX.
Can't you at least say mtn bike or road bike? I like the advice here for my car ad, but some people take it just a little too far.
Yes, especially when none of that money went into the engine...so you have to drop in a V8. That's a very expensive hood scoop! :sick:
What the F does anyone care if the 100 hp engine is German or American?????? It's a dog. The nicest V8 mustang IIs on Earth are tough to get 10 grand for.
What do we say??? Take some better pics and hope to get 3 grand?
Too MUSH MUSHTANG -- aside from never seeing his investment back, who want to drive that....that...THING....on the street anyway. What is that ducting in the passenger seat all about?
Re; QUEENS: I lived in Glendale, right near Jamaica. Not a bad part of Queens as things go, but it's kinda tough, kinda blue collar. There are a few nice areas--if you see Forest Hills in a CL ad, that might be a decent car that had some care.
Only thing I could guess was an iced down intercooler for the turbo, so he could put his Buds in there, too... :sick:
The 3.0 Milano was one of those I definitely kept an eye out for, but I don't stand a chance in hell of finding one in the NE.
Still, its a $3k car, at best, IMHO.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
i like the seller wiped out the licence plates in all the pictures, except #7 which is reflected in the left wind screen.
(pocher kit)
<img src="http://www.scaleautoworks.com/MMalfaenginecomplete300h.jpg
Mk 1 Midget
Old Saab
"Future collector's item"- not for $20k
Renault Gordini- isn't this the Renault that Dacias were based off?
Clean Cordoba for Andre
Studie
And one from Edmonton:
Junk Eldo -"Car was restored with $5k spent on paint 10+ years ago :confuse: Why would a 10 year old car at the time require restoration. Who cares about the paint if it's all peeled now.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
61 MG Midget --- at $2,500, it's about $2,000 overpriced. You can buy these real nice for $4K-$5K and Pebble Beach for $7,500.
1961 Saab --- might be worth the asking price. These are highly respected collectible cars these days, regarded as FWD pioneers and aerodynamically charming. The 2-stroke engine had better be okay, though, as it runs a roller bearing crankshaft, and if you need a new one, it's going to double the price of the car, because you'll have to make one most likely.
84 Cadillac Biarritz Conv -- a "future collectible" that's been a future collectible all its life. The future--future seems to recede as the now--future becomes the present. This could go on well into the 22nd century at this rate.
Renault Gordini -- cool car, might be worth the money just for the weirdness of it. Probably fun to drive.
78 Merc Wagon -- big old wagons are starting to be worth some money, but 1978 models are pushing the trend and might be too new to cash in.
31 Studebaker --- rat rod, good idea for this car.
Even better, can any of our internet slueths send me a link for a busing kit?
The guy's original email said mid teens for the Boxster. Next email he slipped it up to mid-high teens. So that means $17.5, I am guessing. And I suspect he wants my car at $12-$12.5, and there is still the matter that the car is a ten hour drive away. So the deal lost a bit of its luster. The wife is really pushing me to acquire some sort of car with a usable back seat first anyway. I suppose she is right.