Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

It's all period AMG tack-ons...all aftermarket at the time.

explorerx4

the old college try

andre1969

That brings back memories. The damage to that '99 I30 looks similar to, but slightly less, than what happened to the 2000 I30 that rear-ended my '85 Silverado a few years back. When I got hit, it broke out both of her headlights, and pushed her radiator back, although it didn't rupture it. I wonder how much damage that is, $-wise? Kinda sad to think that a hit like that is enough to basically total the car out! But at the same time, that's also a 10 year old car!

fezo

There you go!

Years ago on the night before Thanksgiving we had a great one at our place. We lived in a house on an s curve going down a nice steep hill. We're hanging in the living room catching up and hear this rattle rattle and crash! We look out and here's this young dude going "Oh, my God!" Turns out he had just bought this 66 Chevelle (which would have been 8 years old at the time) for like $600. It had a stick that he didn't know how to operate so he's coming down our hill and the thing gets stuck in third gear. He decides to unstick it by crawling under the car and banging on it. This actually worked. Had he set the parking brake he might have been OK. Went right into one of our trees. no big deal on the tree since it's a wooded lot but the car looked kind of like the front of that Infiniti.

The cops come along and call a tow for the car and the cop tells me he's going to write the kid. I say "For what? Reckless parking?"

jlflemmons

Yeah, the daughter of a dear friend got her first car, an 8 year old Buick LeSabre Limited. That thing was gorgeous, had every option Buick could come up with, and something like 70K miles. Literally belonged to a little old lady.

Well, she had it about two months tops and drops her cell phone. Leans down to pick it up while still moving about 10 miles per hour and goes under the back end of a Jeep. Jeep had a big bumper. Buick got the hood, grill, and both fenders whacked, and insurance totalled the car.

What a shame.

michaellno

In other forums, but since we're on the subject ... let me share my tale of woe.

6 1/2 years ago, my stepson was ready to turn 16. He'd gone through driving school (operated by friends of ours) and had regularly driven our Ford Explorer for practice.

Wife and I are trying to figure out what to get him for daily transportation when we see a car with a for sale sign on the side of the road not far from our house. A 1998 Chevy Tracker with only 60K on the clock, owned and meticulously maintained by a retired GM executive who decided to retire to Colorado. Car is immaculate, so we decide not to let grass grow under our feet and buy it.

Fast forward five weeks ... stepson has acquired his license and is permitted to drive himself, his sister and a friend from down the street to and from school. Being the big hearted kid that he is, after school one day he finds someone who needs a ride home. Unfortunately, this means that his route home from school now includes a dirt road.

You can guess the rest .. a bit of excessive speed and lack of experience caused him to roll the car off the road and send his sister to the hospital via air ambulance for 4 days. The emergency folks had to cut the roof of the Tracker off to extricate her.

Insurance totalled it .. we never even had the chance to get it registered in our name.

bumpy

Um, who cares?

Future Mystery Car pic

Future Mystery Car pic II

scamfest, or idiot

unloved except by autox junkies

the continuing saga of Andre's new old truck

Lemko beater

Lemko beater II

beater for Fintail

fintail

Isuzu Ascender...I don't think I've ever seen one of those in the flesh.

Infiniti is a scam.

That "78" Caddy is more like an 81 or so.

Funny thing about the W140...I disliked them for the longest time, but I don't mind them so much anymore...for such a young car, it is really hard to find an unmessed with one anymore - they all get pimped out or really neglected.

andre1969

Hmm, that's almost sorta the truck I have, just a bit more beat-up looking. Probably has a lot more potential though, being a 3/4 ton with a 350. Mine's just a 1/2 ton, 305.

I kinda like that Coupe Deville, although it looks more like an '80-84 style, than a '78. If it's an '80 with the 368 or even an '81 with the V-8-6-4, might not be a horrible car. But if it has 4.1 or a Diesel, I guess it's time to call the junkyard. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

Custom Chevy Blazer --- I can just picture it...couple guys in a garage at night...too many beers...then one points to the Blazer and says "Hey, what if we....."

BMW 318ti -- some people love 'em, and more power to them, but I think they were one of the most ill-conceived cars BMW ever made. Rough, slow and mechanically dubious. Not much personal experience other than driving some used ones (very unimpressed) and also seeing a 318 clutch explode and go right through the floorboards.

1986 Chevy Truck---- er, does that engine look rebuilt? Might be a chromed up old heap, but hey, the price seems fair enough if you want to haul stuff around.

1991 Fleetwood -- shoot, I'd buy that just to scare people, but not for $1500. More like $500. Would be fun to have around to take 10 or 12 people to lunch. And I could smoke cigars and go to strip clubs! :P

1978 Cadillac --- Parts Car/Demo Derby/Art Project

1997 S320 sedan --- seems fair enough.

qbrozen

My mom drives an [non-permissible content removed]-ender. Traded her Trooper in on it after the Trooper received its 3rd trans in 40k miles.

Other than the badging, I can't tell it apart from its GM twins. So its quite possible you've seen one and didn't notice (and didn't care).

boomchek

Ouch. Hopefully your stepkids are ok now.

boomchek

I always liked the shape of the old Blazer 2 doors. Really simple but nice lines, I think they make great hot rod SUVs.

I never lied the Ascenders, or the long Trailblazers as they look ill proportioned I think. Especially if you get the one with the pop up rear cargo roof, the Envoy XUV I think.

I always liked the Axioms, and even the oddball Vehicross. I give props to Isuzu for their styling attempts. However every review I read about them (as I've never driven an Axiom or Vehicross) criticizes them for ride and handling because they sit on a very old chassis with outdated powertrains.

M45 is a scam.

I agree on the Coupe Deville. Up until 79 they had a more slanted C pillar. This one is an 80 or up model.

S320 is priced right as long as there's no major issues with it, and as long as you don't end up sinking a ton of money into it.

michaellno

Oh, yeah .. the step-daughter suffered a moderate concussion, and the stepson a burn on his forearm from the airbag. No broken bones by any of them - which is surprising, given the state of the car (I got to the accident scene before some of the emergency personnel).

I've seen a few Ascenders and Axioms here in Colorado ..

fintail

Yeah, I only notice the version of those that was the latter-day Studebaker Wagonaire.

I do see an Axiom now and then, and there are actually a few Vehicross in my area. Ahead of its time.

gsemike

The Vehicross's time astill hasn't come but I always thought that the Axiom is decent. I guess it was an attempt by them to go a little upscale. What is Isuzu selling now besides the Ascender?

ghulet

Long time no, um, communicate I guess?

I like the Ascender; the VehiCross was just, I guess, way too odd (not to mention overpriced), hence the rarity. What's that Mitsu 4-door SUV, fairly recent, looks like a better-looking version of a JGC?

Hey, Fintail, saw something on eBay you'd like, despite the, ahem, 'rough' condition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-S-Class-1967-Mercedes-230S-UNIVERSA- L-Station-Wagon-RARE-NR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12- Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14Q- QhashZitem170309131204QQitemZ170309131204QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

Mr_Shiftright

Hey ghulet!

I'm re-formatting your link from eBay that you posted for fintail, about the Belgian fintail wagon in "rough" condition, because your link was so long it knocked our page view out of whack!

GHULET'S LINK FOR FINTAIL

Mr_Shiftright

Comment on the above car:

Nothing that $50,000 USD wouldn't fix right up.

oregonboy

It wasn't the link, it was the photo above it.

andre1969

to replace the power steering pump on a '79 New Yorker? Mine started losing fluid the other day. I tried looking around online, and from what I can make of it, it just seems like a matter of unfastening the hoses, loosening the belt, taking the thing off, putting a new one on, and then bleeding it once it's hooked up by turning the steering wheel lock-to-lock a few times.

Is it really that simple? I paid to have the power steering pump replaced on a '79 Newport I once had, but I don't remember how much it cost. I think it was around $200, but that was also 10 years ago.

I'm wondering if it's something I should try to tackle myself, or just admit defeat now and have the mechanic do it?

fintail

Hey, welcome back.

That Universal is very cool! And very rotten! Wow, look at those sills and gutters, that's about as bad as I have ever seen. As Shifty says, if you want to do that one up right, you're going to blow 50K...but, you'll have a unique and popular MB at the next big show, so maybe for some it would be worth it. I hope someone spends the money on it, a W111 universal seems to be a lot less common than a W110. Might be a cooler sight than yet another 190SL or W111 6cyl cabrio. Someone with spare money should go for it.

andre1969

is an interesting sight. I hope someone salvages it. I wonder if it would be worth it to someone who would do the body work themselves? I might shoot that link to my mechanic and see if he's interested in it. His main thing is big 1960-64 Mopars with a special emphasis on the 1960 Polara/Matador, but sometimes he gets ahold of offbeat stuff like that. He also has a Smart car (the REAL Smart that supposedly gets 70 mpg, not the watered-down one they sell here), a Mini-Moke something-or-other, and he recently got some tiny late 40's Fiat convertible

texases

Hardest part on replacing a power steering pump is being able to get wrenches on the various nuts and bolts, so that depends on how it's mounted. Where's it losing the fluid?

andre1969

Hardest part on replacing a power steering pump is being able to get wrenches on the various nuts and bolts, so that depends on how it's mounted. Where's it losing the fluid?

That, I haven't had a chance to check yet. I guess it could just be something relatively minor like a hose. When it started acting up, I was almost home, driving my uncle back from dropping his truck off at the mechanic. I also had bigger things on my mind, like the Intrepid, which fried it's a/c compressor, and the lawn tractor, which sheared a pulley and I can't figure out how to get it off, and the LeMans, which decided it didn't want to start. So at that point, the NYer was pretty far down the totem pole. :sick:

If I get out of work and home before it gets dark tonite, I might pop the hood and look at it.

texases

Usually it's a (cheaper) cracked hose, so here's hoping!

Mr_Shiftright

Can I have some of what you two are drinking? :P That fintail wagon would require a restoration effort so immense I can't imagine anyone in his right mind attempting it. You can just throw that car away. It probably is not even restorable. You'd have to basically re-create it. In other words, you are restoring a VIN tag and building a new body around it. THAT rare it's not.

texases

Come on, they were spending other people's money :P Looking at those fintail wagon pics, there was not one sound piece of bodywork on that car, and unlike a '67 Mustang, I imagine replacements would be hard to come by...but there's a nut for every car, isn't there?

Mr_Shiftright

There may be a nut for every car but eventually with cars THAT bad, it's more like musical chairs, and the car gets passed from one hand to the other until someone is totally stuck with it.

A car like that fintail in the photo would need, in that condition, a potential restored value of about $150,000 to undertake such a momentous venture. Basically you have to build a new body out of sheets of flat steel and/or match that up with restored pieces from similar cars. Good luck. Not a job for the hobbyist to be sure. Aside from the specialized machines, you'll need to build a jig/armature and you'll need blueprints and a very high skill level in welding and fabrication.

Then of course you have the problem of fending off claims that the car isn't real or that it's even safe to drive.

Last of all, you end up being the King of a very small cult. :P

fintail

I think when IMA built those bodies they didn't properly rustproof them or something. I am certain I read something to that effect in the past - the Universals rot out much faster than normal sedans.

In England that car would be seen as "not so bad"

guss

It has some rust but the replacement panels are all available from Mercedes.

I guess you are not taking him at his word. Mercedes has been keeping the replacements on a shelf for 40 years just for such an occasion. He says it was in Florida, it looks more like it was used as an artificial reef just off the coast.

I love old wagons, but that one would be a huge expense.

fintail

Ha, I somehow missed the line about the panels being available from Mercedes. That's a complete lie by the seller.

Universal wagons were built by a company called "IMA" in Belgium. The only stock MB body panels are the front fenders, hood, and front doors. Everything else is custom, made in very small quantities. Some pieces of that car, such as the taillights, are virtually impossible to replace.

Mr_Shiftright

No I am certainly not taking him at his word. I've dealt enough with old Mercedes to know what MB does and doesn't have.

I mean, if you ship it to Stuttgart, their Classics shop would be glad to MAKE you some panels I'm sure for a small consideration payable in bricks of 24 karat gold.

there are plenty of dead fintails around for body parts from the doors forward, but as for the station wagon part of the car, you're on your own with that.

As you can tell, you are more likely to end up with a Frankencar, matching old parts with fabricated parts. ay, ay, ay.....

I've seen cars this bad totally restored. Sometimes it takes 5-6 years to do it.

One restoration shop in my area has a sign over the door:

"It will take forever and it will cost a fortune. Any other questions?"

ALSO, another sign

"All the easy restorations have been done already"

bumpy

What is Isuzu selling now besides the Ascender?

Nothing now; they formally gave up on the US light truck market last year (they still sell the medium-duty commercial trucks). Toward the end, Isuzu's only light-duty stuff was the Ascender and the ixx0 pickups that were rebadged versions of the Chevy Colorado (which was rather ironic, since the Colorado was a half-assed, Americanized version of the Isuzu pickup that most of the rest of the world can buy).

lemko

I dunno. It's the first one I saw that wasn't an ambulance. However, I agree, the body is completely shot. It's been a long time since I saw a roof panel that was rotted through. I see it has Florida tags, so you can't blame the awful NE winters and the ocean's worth of salt they pour on the roads. Was this car parked outside for years on the beach?

lemko

I believe some 1950s Buick and Pontiac wagon bodies were built by a company called Ionia. Hess & Eisenhardt built a small number of Cadillac station wagons.

lemko

...in much better condition:

http://bringatrailer.com/2007/12/23/euro-rarity-1966-mercedes-benz-230-wagon/

Mr_Shiftright

Gee they turned down almost $14K?? They must not read the papers.

fintail

That's the exact car once owned by my old MB specialist (I even have photos of my own cars at that same location). He eventually sold it to help with a business expansion I think (and he also has several other cars). He got around 20K for it IIRC. He had listed it several times before - and each time was bombarded by communication from the cult who worships those cars. Several of them expressed interest, but only if he swore not to reveal the buyer's identity or location. Strange. I've seen that car in person several times, and it is as good as it looks.

boomchek

Yeah that Universal is pretty rusty. I don't know much about rust fixing, but if there's a hole in the body you can usually weld something in or patch it up.

How do you fix the holes all over the edge of the roof, right where the sheet metal bends? Or those rocker panels, or those doors. Ouch.

Mr_Shiftright

Wonder what it would bring in today's market? I really can't see why they're worth more than a pristine 300TD wagon, which is after all a "real" Mercedes.

boomchek

PS: It might need to get buried here: At the Fintail Graveyard :surprise:

lokki

Tempting
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1051991934.html

Packard A or Packard B? Somegbody's price is way off, but which one?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/cto/1058950787.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1032505312.html

I think he wants an 'after-restoration' price for a car that needs a lot of work
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1070605137.html

Not a Corvair fan, really, but this one, I might think about
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/1038608744.html

Yeah, I heard you, but explain why to me again please...
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1055663713.html

Smoke with side mirrors, I suspect - anybody ever heard of this?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/1033669871.html

Worth tying up the garage space for a year to get it "up and running?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/ctd/1064993643.html

A fun Sunday car...
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1054760565.html

boomchek

I've seen the ad for the hydrogen sports car before. If you're asking $175k for something, I think Craigslist is not the best place to do it.

Besides I wouodn't put money on a car that's not built yet, especially by an unknown car company promising miracles.

Mr_Shiftright

'78 Alfa --- seems like a fair price. He's stretching it by claiming it's worth $6K--it would have to be a truly stunning '78 for that kind of money. Worth a look!

Packard A -- about market correct, maybe a bit of a bargain if it runs well. I was thinking about $4K tops

Packard B -- guy is totally nuts. Let's hope it doesn't have a "V8" engine in it either.

70 Superbird --- well he does have the 6-pak, and he does have a good color (very very important on these cars), and he does have factory documentation. He might get this price, as a restored car could be worth $150K ++.

Turbo Corvair -- dash mounted boost controller on a Corvair? Not a great idea. And a 3-speed transmission? Yuck. And what have we done to the suspension to compensate for this extra power. Gimme a Fitch Corvair instead.

62 Datsun Wagon --- well if there's a fintail wagon cult maybe there could be a split in the church and a new heresy for this car! That red paint looks like it was put on with a putty knife. I hope it was the camera doing bad things. He might get $5K for it.

2009 Scorpion -- oh, give you a large deposit before the car is even built? Sure thing Mr. Madoff.

91 MR2 Turbo -- yeah, maybe $5K but if it's his baby, couldn't he fix the ripped seats?

lokki

62 Datsun Wagon --- "well if there's a fintail wagon cult maybe there could be a split in the church and a new heresy for this car!"

As in the old song, "Oh Lord, won't you buy me a 62 Datsun Station Wagon?"

There MIGHT be such a cult - after all, there IS
The Church of Our Lady of the Westphalia
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1068205013.html

As for Packard B, I always wonder how somebody could be selling a car like that and not know about the Packard Straight 8. I'm finally used to the kids selling Cameros, but a Packard Man... should know

http://jalopnik.com/380781/engine-of-the-day-packard-inline-eight

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe he folded the engine at a 45 degree angle?

lokki

Another one of those engines designed by the famous Japanese designer
Isit Origami?

I think he did this one too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_engine

gsemike

I think that can be a 6 figure car if restored so that may not be that bad.

Mr_Shiftright

Wow, what if that 64 valve Bugatti W16 breaks a timing chain? that's $300 per valve X 64, just for openers. But then, if you can afford a Veyron, this is chump change.