Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

I like wagons too. That Country Squire looks amazing - the seller says it right, buy one rather than restore it yourself, and a Vista Cruiser is always cool. I also have a thing for vintage fog lights on period cars (my old car has them too), so I like that Pontiac as well, nicely optioned. I don't know why that 57 Buick has "new tires" that aren't wide whites - I hate it when people get the most obvious details wrong - laziness or cheapness, one of the two. The Corvair is cool too - you never see those wagons anymore.

The wire wheels on that 53 Buick seem a bit garish for a wagon - I can't imagine it having those when new, seems like a convertible option. 12 grand for an air horn system from a 61 International? The 62 Chrysler could be saved easily enough it looks like, and it's a shame the Buick with claimed celebrity provenance (I would like to see the proof) was modified like that.

lemko

Shoot, about ten years ago there was this guy who wanted to trade me even-up a nice black 1966 Fleetwood for my 1989 Cadillac Brougham because he lost the storage for his car and needed a daily driver. I rejected the offer simply because I knew his car wouldn't fit in my garage. Also, I'd have had to really really go over his car with a fine-toothed comb. Who knows what issues it might've had.

Mr_Shiftright

Old Cadillacs are very expensive and very difficult to repair. They are complex cars for their time, and you can't just call up Year One and order a fender or trim pieces.

'57 Caballero -- not a bad car, but not a #1, so the price now offered, in the low 20s, is close to being correct. I'm predicting around $25000 top bid. If he's looking for $30K, he should be doing more detail work on the car---especially the engine bay, which is deplorable. He's already painted and re-upholstered it, so let's not plead "virginity" here.

International Ambulance --BIN price is sheer lunacy. Somebody is way out of touch.

colloquor

Here's one of Andre or Lemko...

http://chambana.craigslist.org/cto/1425985168.html

fezo

Yo, explorer! You have to stop putting nice MGs that I could drive to in there..... just saying.... Dang, that would tempting.

I liked the 57 Buick wagon. Good thing he wants too much.

texases

"I liked the 57 Buick wagon. Good thing he wants too much"

Well, you're just the buyer for the OTHER '57-the rusty one out in the weeds. :sick:

How much can that guy be wanting? 'Reserve not met' - he's gotta be smoking something...

fezo

Yeah, I could build a model Buick out of bondo.

Hey, it only takes one sucker....

tjc78

82 New Yorker

Plush Interior

Not a Bill Blass

This thing is Niiice

Absolutely beautiful!

andre1969

Looks like a nice crop of battlercruisers there. I wish they had better pics of the '85 LeSabre, though. I can tell from the pics that it's a Custom and not Limited (Limited had nicer seats...although those seats are decent, and at least not the mouse-fur like my '86 Monte Carlo had).

I gotta admit, that '79 New Yorker has me drooling! Oddly, the base New Yorker with optional leather seats comes off looking plusher than the standard leather in the more expensive 5th Ave Edition. And a lot of customers noticed that as well, so for 1981, Chrysler switched, and made those pimpy, button-tufted seats the 5th Ave seats, while what had been the 5th Ave seats (more of an "X" pattern) the optional leather seats for the base model. I had always been under the impression that my '79 5th Ave stickered for around $12K new, but if that blue NYer stickered for $11,937, I wonder if my car was more?

That '82 New Yorker looks really nice, too. I really like that "Nightwatch" blue color. It's non-metallic, so it stays shiny forever (although my Nightwatch '79 NYer is oxydizing)

I saw an old beast at the GM show in Carlisle this past weekend that really caught my eye. 1972 Buick Centurion 4-door hardtop. White with a green top and green vinyl interior. Supposedly only had around 8,000 miles on it, but if so, it hadn't been stored very well. Carpet and package shelf were shot from water damage, and there was some surface rust here and there. Seller wanted $1800 for it. I thought it would've been a neat beater, especially with the 455-4bbl! I took a pic of it, along with some other stuff at that show. I'll post a link to it all once it's uploaded.

fintail

Oooh, that 79 Andremobile has a very nice color combo. If I wanted an R-body, I'd go after that one.

tjc78

That '82 New Yorker looks really nice, too.

My neighbor had an 86 in white just like the one in the ad. From what I can tell not much was changed from 82 to 86. Chrysler had some nice interior back then. He put 250K miles on that car on the original motor and trans.

The '79 is pretty well equipped for not being the 5th Ave edition. Probably pretty rare optioned up like that.

lemko

That LeSabre is near me.

ghulet

....very pretty but you can tell it's not a high-line (interior looks kinda plain and NO power passenger seat, blasphemy!!); I remember there were a plethora of 'designer' editions (Bill Blass was two-tone white and blue, w/matching interior, I think; there were also Pucci and Givenchy editions, among others).

Since I'm most familiar with GMs, those old tanks seem nice enough for the money.

tjc78

I remember there were a plethora of 'designer' editions

There were four... Cartier, Blass, Givenchy, and Pucci. The one and only way to be sure its a designer series cars is by the opera window. If it wasn't marked on the window its just a plain 'ol Mark. So many sellers think they have a "Cartier" edition just because the clock says Cartier. Almost all late 70s Lincolns had a Cartier clock standard.

For 78 the Blass was actually a Brownish red with matching interior Here is a nice example
In 79 the Blass was the white/blue combo you mentioned.

andre1969

I think one detail that makes that Mark V look plain on the inside is that it's missing one touch that was always the sign of an upscale car (domestic, at least)...carpeting on the lower door panels! Even on cheaper cars, that was one way they distinguished the cheaper models from the nicer ones. For example, a 1978 Malibu, Impala, Catalina, or LeMans didn't have carpeting, but the Malibu Classic, Caprice, Bonneville, and Grand LeMans did.

So in something as upscale as a Mark V, those door panels look downright naked! I think the pattern in the leather makes the car look a bit plain, too. It's just too clean and understated, not over-stuffed and pimpy. At least that car has what, IMO, are the "right" options...the 460 V-8 and a sunroof!

Now that I think about it, I believe I've only had one car with a power passenger seat. And that was, of all things, an '88 LeBaron turbo coupe! At least, I think it was power...memory's getting a bit fuzzy now. My '85 LeSabre had a power recline on the passenger seat, but the fore/aft was manual, and it didn't have any other adjustments. I thought the power recline was a bit useless though, since you would be able to adjust a manual seat much more quickly.

Well, in a way, I guess my '76 LeMans has a power passenger seat. But that's because it's a solid bench, so where the driver's side goes, the passenger side follows!

andre1969

Normally brown cars aren't my thing, but that '78 Bill Blass is pretty sharp looking. I think the hint of red really helps. That's a really nice paintjob on it, too. So shiny and smooth that you can identify every single car that's reflected in it. Cars have come a long way since those days, for the most part, but I think one thing they definitely did better in those days, was smooth paint. At least, when you looked at the reflections on the paint, they seemed more crisp and clear. The orange-peel was still there, but didn't seem nearly as bad as on many of today's cars.

lemko

Wasn't the Diamond Jubillee Mark V the ultimate Mark? Doesn't it rank above the Designer Editions? Isn't it something like $8K more? I like that little diamond chip in the opera windows - nice touch!

tjc78

The DJE was the ultimate Mark. The package added 8K to the base price of a regular mark. The designer editions also carried a pretty hefty price tag as they were pretty much fully equipped. The main difference the DJE has over the designer Marks was thicker carpets, unique interior w/ center console, leather dash, the diamond in the opera window and they came with a tool kit. Most of the other options were the same. Alot of people don't realize that the 79 "Collectors series" Marks were really the same as the DJE just in different color schemes. IMO the 79s had better colors (Navy, White, and a few silver) as opposed to the 78s being gold/gold or powder blue/blue. However, the 78 was the last year for the 460 so there is an argument there over the 79s.

andre1969

Yeah, for 1978 I think the Diamond Jubilee Edition was probably the top-ranking Mark. I think my friend TJ said that his originally stickered for over $20K, and the DJE accounted for something like $8,000 of that. And I think stuff like the 460 V-8 and power sunroof were still separate options from that! I have no idea how expensive those other designer editions were, though...I'm sure they were up there.

For 1979, there was a "Collector's Edition" that was essentially the Diamond Jubilee interior. I think it only came in midnight blue, though. There was also a Collector's Edition version of the Continental Sedan. Maybe the Coupe' too?

tjc78

The original Marks I have seen always had nice paint. I believe the 78s/79s were clearcoat at least on the DJE and the Collector's Series.

andre1969

I never really cared for that champagne/gold color they offered on the DJE in '78. But that light powder blue is to die for!

I always liked the light jade green they offered on those cars, but I guess that was just the regular models, and not on any of the designer editions?

Mr_Shiftright

Interestingly, the DJE does not carry much of a premium over other designer editions---a thousand bucks at most. All these designer editions became somewhat inflationary.

Does anyone remember a "Williamsburg Edition"?

andre1969

I remember hearing of a Willamsburg Edition, but had to look it up. I found this quote..."Some believed the Town editions had become too gaudy, so the Williamsburg editions were created. These were 4-door models that came in either gray or burgundy and deleted the opera window, the coach lamps, and the wide body side moldings. "

However, the pics I've seen of Williamsburg Editions online all have opera windows, so maybe at some point they stopped deleting them?

Lincoln seemed to have pretty good success in the 1970's with those designer editions. I really don't remember Cadillac doing anything other than the Eldorado Biarritz, and the Fleetwood Talisman. And the only attempt at a designer edition that Chrysler did, that I can think of, was the 5th Avenue Edition of the 1979-81 New Yorker. I think there was also a 1980-81 LeBaron 5th Ave.

Mr_Shiftright

It depends on how you want to look at it.

In one sense, these huge "designer edition" barges were cashing in on genuine popularity for what Americans considered "luxury".

At the same time, we see cars like BMW and Honda and Toyota taking a different path in 1980, one that would lead them to great success and American automakers to disaster.

I like to think of the big Marks as a 'swan song' of an era never to return. I wouldn't call them paragons of quality, but as social history, they are important I think.

andre1969

Would the 460 V-8, versus the standard 400, carry much of a price premium with these late 70's lovebarges? I've ridden in my buddy's '78 Mark V 460 a few times, and driven it once, and it seemed perfectly adequate, and more than enough to be scary in the wrong hands!

Would the 400 be enough engine to move one of these cars with any dignity? I guess mentally, I'm trying to compare it to the 150 hp 360 in my '79 New Yorkers, or the 165-170 hp 350 in my '76 LeMans. Both cars with similar gearing and hp, but less torque. But also a lot less mass.

tjc78

Would the 400 be enough engine to move one of these cars with any dignity?

I had a '79 Town Coupe with the 400 and it moved along OK (when it ran right). Plenty of torque and effortless on the highway, you could easily peg the speedo. If you have ever driven a late 80s Town Car/GM/CV I would bet it would be about the same. The 460 was so choked down by 78 that IMO it doesn't matter which engine you have in the late 70s cars

tjc78

However, the pics I've seen of Williamsburg Editions online all have opera windows

Even in my 79 Continental Brochure the Williamsburg has the opera windows. Dark grey sides, light grey uppers and vinyl roof with red pinstripe and red velour interior..... yep 70s alright!

I always liked the light jade green they offered on those cars, but I guess that was just the regular models, and not on any of the designer editions?

Here is a Givenchy edition (78) is this the color you are thinking of?

.

Mr_Shiftright

GEEZ, I couldn't imagine driving these cars at speed in anything but a straight line and *very* carefully. The less power the better. Remember this is the era of "am I actually in control of this vehicle"?

Anyway, to answer your question, none of the price guides or databases I use offer any premium or mention of extra points for a 460, so I guess this has not shown up as a factor in pricing, based on past sales.

fintail

I like the little front vent/wing windows on those, power operated...very impressive to a little kid.

ghulet

....I seem to remember a lighter, metallic green (let's call it dark seafoam) with matching metallic-y vinyl top and velour interior on those Mark V's.

My neighbor's friend (who worked for Ford) had a Mark IV in the most gaudy/lavish color combo; basically a metallic champagne with burgandy vinyl top and two-tone leather interior to match....I thought it was very chic as a ten year-old future gay boy, and it was considerably more fancy than anything my parents owned (various array of smallish cars and pickup trucks with vinyl interiors, no A/C and crank windows). That Mark was traded in on an Escort four-door.

andre1969

I just looked up the paint chip for the 1978 Lincoln, and it looks like the color I like is called "Light Jade Poly"

That dark green is nice, though. I guess that's what they call "Midnight Jade". I bet a 2-tone of the two jades would look really sharp.

andre1969

Mark IV in the most gaudy/lavish color combo; basically a metallic champagne with burgandy vinyl top and two-tone leather interior to match

I think I've seen a few Mark IVs at car shows in that color combo. If it's what I'm thinking, it's a pretty nice color combo. Something that looks better in person than any attempt to describe it would sound!

Oh, I ran into an old friend of mine during lunch, someone I haven't seen in ages. Last I'd heard, he picked up a BMW 750 something-or-other...the V12 model. I asked him how that was going and he said it was the best car he's ever driven, all three times that it started!

At one point he let it sit too long and the battery died. He had also left it locked. Unfortunately, as he described it, the power lock on the door are purely electrical...nothing mechanical. So when it died, there was no way to get into it! He said he finally figured out to open the trunk, take the trunk light out, and hook a battery charger up to that, and it eventually gave him just enough juice to get the door unlocked.

ghulet

I've always liked these, but the 'I've got a bible full of receipts', means 'you can start volume 2 if you expect any more life outta this thing':

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/cto/1250551530.html

restorable '79 Trans Am....what are these worth?:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/cto/1250458807.html

"Willing to accept trades" but cash is tight, so CASH ONLY, lol:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/1250424548.html

Mr_Shiftright

With an old Audi, you're going to need a Bible. You can read about Job.

79 Trans Am -- the normal TA coupe, figure nice cars in the $13,000---$20,000 range. Over the top frame off restorations, might go higher. That thar TA looks like a parts car to me.

97 Cadillac -- yeah that's about what it's worth...maybe. Why for coolant tank she go KABOOM? :confuse: "needs AC fan blower" --not too hard to replace but coughing up for the part for $400 bucks or so?....I guess if the car runs well, not an overheater, and you can find a local Pick a Part, you might be okay at around $1000 bucks for it. You could always use it to knock down buildings.

gsemike

All of a sudden, I see a lot of young guys around here with those trans ams. Everything from perfect condition to complete 'wait till I get it painted' beaters. Since the mileage is supposedly low, somebody will take that TA for 2500 and get a Maaco paint job and whatever wheels he can find on Craigs

gsemike

Besides that fact that there are no bow tie big block 400s, what is the offer for this

67 Chevelle

Same guy, different Chevelle

Maybe he never realized how expensive good paint is these days?

tjc78

the color I like is called "Light Jade Poly

Now I know the color, I saw one on Ebay like that a few months ago. Certainly were alot of color choices in '78. Nothing like today.

explorerx4

got the registration renewal for the mustang, can't register it until i get it emissions tested. can't get it emissions tested until i put on the road insurance on it.
insurance will be reinstated as of monday.
now i have to burn through last fall's gas and some more before i take it in for emissions testing.

jlflemmons

Throw about a 1/4 tank of ethanol 85 in it. Burns cleaner. Then fill er up with the regular to dilute the ethanol. Continuous ethanol is not good for the fuel system, but may get you past the emissions test.

I here this is a common method for older Honda's around here.

hpmctorque

That Audi looks nice. Too bad old Audi's are prohibitively expensive to own. I don't know this from experience, but I believe what Shifty says about these cars.

fortee9er

I have noticed recent articles in different car magazines talking about the 94-96 Buick Roadmaster Estate wagon and its possible rise to collectible status.What got my attention was the claim that it could get 21 to 26 mpg on the hiway. I am looking at replacing the wife's 1994 Mercury Grand Marquis (27 mpg on the highway) and this looked like an attractive alternative. Does anyone on this board have any experience with these cars or their corporate siblings. Any comparison to the Grand Marquis/Crown Vic would also be welcome.

andre1969

Does anyone on this board have any experience with these cars or their corporate siblings. Any comparison to the Grand Marquis/Crown Vic would also be welcome.

I've driven a few of those '94-96 GM B-bodies, and a friend of mine had a '95 Grand Marquis, and now has an '04 Crown Vic LX. I prefer the GM cars to the Ford cars, but they're both good cars IMO. The LT-1 V-8 from 1994-96 fame will blow the doors off the 4.6 that Ford was using in the 1994 Grand Marquis...although in later years Ford did up the hp of the 4.6, and nowadays, I imagine with the optional axle ratio, a Crown Vic or Grand Marquis might be close in performance to an LT-1 GM B-body.

Those LT-1 cars also had beefed up suspensions, whether sedan or wagon, so they were excellent handlers for something that big. They'd probably handle a lot better than a similar-vintage Crown Vic or Grand Marquis. On the downside though, the curvy body makes it harder to see the edges of the car, and they just FEEL like a bigger, bulkier car, even though they're within inches of a Grand Marquis in most respects.

The GM cars feel like they're bigger inside, as well. Less dashboard intrusion, smaller transmission/driveshaft hump, bigger doors, less intrusion of the rear wheel wells, etc. They're also a couple inches wider inside. However, I do remember that in the 1991-96 Caprice sedan, my head brushes the ceiling in the back seat.

And I'd have faith in one getting 26 mpg on the highway, as long as you're not heavy-footed, and it's in a good state of tune. They used a somewhat old-fashioned formula of a big, powerful engine, coupled with a tall axle ratio, so the engine's loafing along pretty lazily at highway speeds. I'm sure in spirited driving it'll get pretty thirsty, but then most cars guzzle a bit more when you have fun with them!

One downside I can see though, is that if you have a preference for Ford, then you might not like the way GM does things, and vice versa. I guess I'm fairly unbiased though, since I have a preference for Mopar! But Mopar hasn't built a car in this class since 1981, so it's not like I have a dog in this fight!

explorerx4

thanks for the suggestion. i'm not sure E85 is sold around here(ct).
i will see if i can find some.
usually i just burn up the old gas, put in some fresh stuff, then just before the test, put some good heat in the engine.
so far, it has always passed, despite never having had a tune up.

fortee9er

Andre,
Thanks for the thoughtful comparison. I always preferred GM over Ford that is until I my father gave me his 94 Grand Maquis with 35k miles a few years ago and my oldest daughter gave me the 94 Ford Ranger (4cyl 5 spd) Supercab mini truck that we bought for her when she was starting college back in '98. All of the sudden we had Ford daily drivers. In the time that we've had these vehicles I've come to appreciate Fords. The GM gets tested every couple of weeks when we make a 400+ mile round trip in one day. It never fails to get 27+ miles to the gallon and it is very comfortable. The 16 gallon gas tank is an incovenience. The one downside has been the GM's 4.6 engine, it is starting to burn a little oil. my mechanic thinks it may be the rings. This car has no more than 80k miles. Other than that I think it has been a great car and the price was right. The idea to get the Buick wagon came up after I realized the possible ring problem with the GM and that I may need to replace it soon before it gets worse and unsalable.

gsemike

Are these really 'must sell today' prices?

Needs TLC BMW

Weird that there is no mention at all of the engine Paint doesn't look that good

If you have $850 and can take it away before I change my mind, it is yours I better race over there

What is the story with these?

texases

BMW 633- wonder what 'TLC' is? Doesn't matter, I guess, you'd be $$ ahead buying a good one.

Cobra replicars - from what I hear scary fast, scary handling, brutal ride.

fintail

I am sure the two beaters could be worse...old Accord and maybe a 3.8 GM, not the most unreliable cars.

I smell a rusty shark in that 633.

qbrozen

The ad for that Monte is pretty funny.

Gotta wonder why the seller didn't call the good folks who left all those notes instead of putting it up on craigs.

boomchek

why the seller didn't call the good folks who left all those notes

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking too. You hear it all the time from both sides, sellers and buyers.

Sellers claiming they had crazy on the spot offers on their supposedly rare collector cars, yet when it came time to sell, there was nobody around wanting it.

Same thing with buyers, claiming to call them when you want to sell your "special" car, as they'll be the first to buy it, only to have them make up some lame excuse when it's time to put their money where their mouth is :sick:

jlflemmons

It's called BTEW Syndrome.

That would be "Beer Talk Empty Wallet"