Due to occasional V12 engine fires, the engines on those cars are sometimes referred to by car guys as "XJS Auxiliary Heating Units".
The best comment I heard at a Jaguar repair shop, from a mechanic to a new proud owner: "You will have very good days with this car, and you will have very bad days with this car".
It probably does have the limiter. A friend of mine (engineer) worked a job at an airport and some of the crew guys used to take the company pickups (2000 Chevrolet 1500s) across the closed runways going full-out. The trucks would hit the rev limiters at 105 mph and lose power, and just sit there.
I took my old '69 Econoline to 95 mph once just for the hell of it, and it took a LONG time to go from 90 to 95 even though it made it up to 90 pretty quickly. Of course, it has nearly the profile of a flat-nosed bus.
I had my '69 C20 up to 90 when a tour bus decided it did not want to be passed as I was mid-way through the maneuver. The C20 is geared so low I thought the poor, 31-year-old (at the time) engine was going to blow. I was so pissed I actually called in the driver to the company; I hope that punk lost his job - he must have been doing better than 80 on a two-lane highway with a full load of tourists.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
The price and mileage on that Mercedes 190 16V looks reasonable to me. Whenever I see these cars for sale the asking price is usually between $7k and $8K. I have seen a couple for a lot less but they were junk. If I lived in the area I would definitely go take a look at it.
I was operating under the assumption that the Benz was either a fake or a period silhouette car. Were the hot-dog 190s ever officially imported? 1987 is just a bit too late for a gray market car.
Wikipedia says that they were exported to the USA:
"US-Specification cars had a slightly reduced compression ratio (9.7:1 instead of 10.5:1), and were rated at 167 hp (125 kW) @ 5800 rpm and 162 lb·ft (220 N·m) @ 4750"
A shame about the gold wheels and auto-trannie on that particular example though.
"Wheeler Dealers" had a show about buying and selling one. (In England) Wheeler Dealers
I've seen them too...my old MB specialist had one in his collection. I remember the gauges low near the console...that makes me think this car is legit, I can't imagine it being worth faking such a car.
Like bumpy says, 1987 is too late for a gray market car. By that time the Germans were finally offering the models people wanted in NA, and the grey market business really collapsed. I'd wager an awful lot of money that it's an original US market car. Of course, this says nothing for condition, it could be as bad as a neglected grey market model.
I am sure someone else has seen that craigslist ad by now, and has either looked at the car, laughed, and walked away, or bought it on the spot. It's one of those kind of deals.
Could be a scam, too. "Oh, the car is in Brazil, but if you forward a cashier's check to...."
I remember once, some time ago, I looked at a gray market Mercedes 300TD wagon, for cheap. Looked good, but when I put my foot in to sit down, I heard a distinct crunchy sound from the floorboards. Yeah, you guessed it. Pulled up the mat and the entire floor resembled nothing so much as corn flakes!
"it could be as bad as a neglected grey market model"
I wonder, how well have those grey market cars survived over the years? I wouldn't be surprised if they've been more neglected than most, givent the difficulty in getting parts...
I think they have a much lower survival rate than normal cars, yeah. I think they mostly tended to be the low end of the condition spectrum when they were shipped over, and the parts problem once here couldn't have helped. I've only seen a few grey market W126 that I would consider to be in nice condition - and tons of them were sent over. I do remember one at a local auction several years ago...500SE, Jan 81 build date, full option load including airbag and ABS...but sadly, it was very neglected and beyond economical redemption. They make good parts cars anyway, as many MB enthusiasts love the Euro interior parts and bumpers/lights.
A grey market 300TD would be very rare too...I wonder why someone bought one via that route when so many were sold here. That car would be fought over in Europe today, rare there with that engine...and it would probably be restored.
I have a friend in the Netherlands who is actually restoring a 123 wagon...but I think it is a small engined 200 model.
Maybe something brought over by military personnel---I don't know. Must be tough driving a 300TD in Europe---they are such slugs. On the other hand, even though they do drive faster over there, there is far less road rage, so your life might be spared.
There was a grey-market 1977 Mercedes 450SEL in my old neighborhood. What were these called? W111? Anyway, the car looked MUCH BETTER with the flush Euro lights and without the huge park bench bumpers of the federalized version.
Those are W116, and indeed they are the model that was most harmed by the US-spec mods. The bumpers those things had were ridiculously huge. There are a few grey market W116 in my area...I guess the late 70s are when that movement became popular. I looked at a grey market W116 about 10 years ago, it was pretty cool. It was a 280SE, manual, checkered cloth interior, sunroof, and it was red.
Yeah, a '72 might have been a bit better starting point, but given it now has a high-output crate motor, not much harm done. Probably runs better than most '72s, they were starting to be smogged up by then.
With the crate motor it will run fine, but 73-4s are just undesirable. That is one car that didn't deal well with the bumper regs. Despite the work done, it's overpriced by a lot
um, yeah, $17k is a greedy-dreamer price for ANY '73 Nova (and for most ''68-72s); as to the MR2---meh, it's an automatic, not-so-great exterior nor interior, nuthin special....big yawn.
oh yeah, I guess the three pedals and the language in the ad ('new clutch', 'it's a stick') shoulda been a giveaway on the MR2....I was kinda brain-dead last night (moreso than usual, even).
When I was younger, I preferred the '73-74 Nova to the '68-72, but probably for the very reasons they're despised today! I liked the more formal roofline of the coupe, which gave a larger rear quarter window. And the front and rear-end just seemed beefier, sturdier, and more impressive. I just thought it was a more expensive looking car overall. In contrast, I always thought the '68-72 Nova looked a little cheap.
Looking at the two styles now though, I think my perspective has changed a bit. The '73-74 now just seems like a heavy-handed, pretentious updating to what had been a clean, unadorned style.
My favorite though, is the '66-67 style. I also like the '75-79. Performance was pretty much dead by then, although you could still get a 350 in these cars, right up until the end. They also made for a great police car, generally preferred over the police-spec Dart and Aspen/Volare, and even the 1979 Malibu police package that replaced it.
plus, the '73 was the first year Nova offered the hatchback body style, though you couldn't tell the difference at a glance. We had two '73-74 Novas on our block when I was a kid: one was a green '73 notchback, 350 automatic, owned by a little old lady (Fran, the candy lady.....sadly, the Nova replaced a '65 Impala...she died in 1987 and the Nova had ~40k miles); the other was a brown hatchback with a nice off-white interior, but a 6-cylinder. I also had a friend in high school with a tan/tan '75 (I think) Concours sedan, which, strangely, had a 6 and a three-on-the-tree. I think the Achilles heal of later Novas, in general, was the tendency of the 'dog trail' (IIRC) of the frame/suspension. Perfectly decent cars otherwise, reliable, solid, not any more rust-prone than your average '70s domestic car, which I guess isn't saying much.
The '62-67 Chevy II/Novas had single leaf springs, but I can't remember if the '68-79 did. I know those single-leaf springs tended to crack. I wouldn't be surprised if they tended to shift out of alignment, as well.
The 1968 had a sub-frame that was bolted to the body, as opposed to welded on, and those tended to rust and come loose over time. Supposedly there have been a few cases of those Novas actually breaking in two!
I once had a guy try to sell me a 1979 Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow he claimed belonged to Diana Ross. Is Jon Voight's 1983 Chrysler Town and Country still available?
Nice crop of battlecruisers there. I like that '77 New Yorker, although the paint looks faded, and I have a feeling it looks better in pics than in person. I think I've seen those "Patriot" badges on a Caddy before, but dunno anything about them. Maybe it was some aftermarket package that got you that carriage roof?
That '76 "Caprice" is actually an Impala...nice car though. As for the 24" rims, give it time, I'm sure. :sick: And yeah, that brown is about the worst choice imaginable for that '75 LeSabre. If it was blue or red or white, it would be a world of improvement. Some Buick Mag wheels would dress it up alot, too.
That diamond jubilee T-bird is nice. Reminds me a bit of the 1979 Heritage that one of my Mom's cousins had a few years ago. I loved the plush interior and the trunk that had higher quality carpeting than most passenger cabins!
Hmmm! The Philly neighborhood in those pictures looks familiar. I think this is somewhere off Hunting Park Avenue and Whittaker if it's the same car I'm thinking of. I believe I passed by it back at the end of September. I believe the "Patriot" portion of the name refers to a dealer-installed package - notably the carriage roof. Still, I'd fear the HT4100 engine though it was much improved in 1983 versus the debut 1982 version.
The Philly neighborhood in those pictures looks familiar
Yeah I was looking local and since I am so close to Philly lots from over the bridge show up.
I'd fear the HT4100 engine
I would too. I have an Uncle that has had various 80s Caddys with the 4100 and he claims the trick to keep them running well is to be very diligent on the cooling system. Who knows? He always had good luck with them.
that brown is about the worst choice imaginable for that '75 LeSabre. If it was blue or red or white, it would be a world of improvement. Some Buick Mag wheels would dress it up alot, too.
I am a sucker for a white car w/blue interior. It is funny how most older cars tend to have hub caps and not alloy wheels. Today, its the opposite.
Oh, I once looked at a beautiful white 1981 Cadillac Sedan DeVille with a plush blue interior, but its diesel engine was even scarier than the HT4100. I test drove it and a Blue Bird bodied school bus in the passing lane blew the doors off of it.
I am a sucker for a white car w/blue interior. It is funny how most older cars tend to have hub caps and not alloy wheels. Today, its the opposite.
Now that I think about it, did the '75 Delta 88 or Caprice even offer any kind of mag/rally wheel? It seems like those Buick 5-spoke magnums are common on LeSabres and even Electras, while the Rally 2 was common on Pontiacs. But I can't recall ever seeing anything on a Delta or 98 other than a hubcap or wire wheel. And ditto the big Chevies by that time.
but its diesel engine was even scarier than the HT4100
My Grandfather had a Olds (88 or 98) with the diesel and I remember him complaining about when I was a kid. He called it a "pig" and it didn't stay around long, he replaced it with a Riviera (84ish). I loved that car and still do today, wouldn't mind finding a nice example. His was very similar to "big [non-permissible content removed]'s" from the Sopranos
re: the LeSabre convertible, it's also strange how plain-jane that one is: no mags, no power anything, no tilt. The whole thing is kind of a 'why bother?'.
The Cadillac Patriot: egads, lame-o 4100 engine, the wire wheel covers (granted, most Caddies of this era had them), the dumb roof, but most of all, who the hell, in 1983, would buy a Cadillac with a factory 8-track? I know their target audience at the time weren't exactly audiophiles, but still....
Comments
The best comment I heard at a Jaguar repair shop, from a mechanic to a new proud owner: "You will have very good days with this car, and you will have very bad days with this car".
I took my old '69 Econoline to 95 mph once just for the hell of it, and it took a LONG time to go from 90 to 95 even though it made it up to 90 pretty quickly. Of course, it has nearly the profile of a flat-nosed bus.
I had my '69 C20 up to 90 when a tour bus decided it did not want to be passed as I was mid-way through the maneuver. The C20 is geared so low I thought the poor, 31-year-old (at the time) engine was going to blow. I was so pissed I actually called in the driver to the company; I hope that punk lost his job - he must have been doing better than 80 on a two-lane highway with a full load of tourists.
back when trucks were trucks
overpriced body kit
the rectilinear nose clashes horribly with the rest of the car
Complete your European junk car checklist!
German
British
Italian
If I lived in the area I would definitely go take a look at it.
That Euro junkyard looks like the same seller for all cars...and the BMW is 1977 at the oldest.
and it ain't just a body kit. the 16v was the hotrod version.
i think that's the first purple spider i've ever seen.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
One could double one's money in a blink at that price.
"US-Specification cars had a slightly reduced compression ratio (9.7:1 instead of 10.5:1), and were rated at 167 hp (125 kW) @ 5800 rpm and 162 lb·ft (220 N·m) @ 4750"
A shame about the gold wheels and auto-trannie on that particular example though.
"Wheeler Dealers" had a show about buying and selling one. (In England)
Wheeler Dealers
As you say, if this is a Euro car, the problem of rust has to be investigated thoroughly.
Like bumpy says, 1987 is too late for a gray market car. By that time the Germans were finally offering the models people wanted in NA, and the grey market business really collapsed. I'd wager an awful lot of money that it's an original US market car. Of course, this says nothing for condition, it could be as bad as a neglected grey market model.
I am sure someone else has seen that craigslist ad by now, and has either looked at the car, laughed, and walked away, or bought it on the spot. It's one of those kind of deals.
I remember once, some time ago, I looked at a gray market Mercedes 300TD wagon, for cheap. Looked good, but when I put my foot in to sit down, I heard a distinct crunchy sound from the floorboards. Yeah, you guessed it. Pulled up the mat and the entire floor resembled nothing so much as corn flakes!
I wonder, how well have those grey market cars survived over the years? I wouldn't be surprised if they've been more neglected than most, givent the difficulty in getting parts...
I have a friend in the Netherlands who is actually restoring a 123 wagon...but I think it is a small engined 200 model.
Weren't most of those diesel wagons turbo models? In Europe, unlike here, the slow driver would keep to the right, so it wouldn't be bad yeah.
Smokey and the Bandit clone Obviously lying about the tach and blower motor
An automatic????? =(
Hauls and saves gas
How about as a sedan?
Do these have a following?
But it's still a 73 Nova He should have done all that work to a 68-72
Looks like a decent driver">link title
But, at $1,500, if it runs and drives OK, I would buy it.
And tell fezo to call. Maybe he can sweet talk them out of the SAAB convertible sitting in front of it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's just a really cool, 80s-type stick.
Where were you, man?
Seriously, there's three pedals.
Today it's near impossible to tell with some cars until you look very closely at the shifter. BMW and Honda are the prime offenders.
Cheers -Mathias
Looking at the two styles now though, I think my perspective has changed a bit. The '73-74 now just seems like a heavy-handed, pretentious updating to what had been a clean, unadorned style.
My favorite though, is the '66-67 style. I also like the '75-79. Performance was pretty much dead by then, although you could still get a 350 in these cars, right up until the end. They also made for a great police car, generally preferred over the police-spec Dart and Aspen/Volare, and even the 1979 Malibu police package that replaced it.
I think the Achilles heal of later Novas, in general, was the tendency of the 'dog trail' (IIRC) of the frame/suspension. Perfectly decent cars otherwise, reliable, solid, not any more rust-prone than your average '70s domestic car, which I guess isn't saying much.
The 1968 had a sub-frame that was bolted to the body, as opposed to welded on, and those tended to rust and come loose over time. Supposedly there have been a few cases of those Novas actually breaking in two!
THE PICTURES ARE OF WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE WHEN I BOUGHT IT, IT DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THEM ANYMORE.
RE: '55 Chevy
I really liked this quote:
"RESTORED TO PERFECT $150K CAR, EASY"
More like $85,000 pard, and that's after you spent $100K to do it.
real value as it sits? $10000 bucks, going by the description and one micro-photo taken from inside a fish tank.
Another quote that might apply to old cars: "This is the stuff dreams are made of"
Putting pictures of a classic car when it was new(er) is same as putting picture of yourself on a dating site when you were 19. Pointless. :lemon:
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I wonder if price guides will add 10% for "Elvis Proximity"?
Never heard of a "Patriot" Caddy
Surprised no 24" rims
JUBILEE EDITIONS ARE ALMOST NON EXHISTANT
Would be so much better with Blue or red interior
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
That '76 "Caprice" is actually an Impala...nice car though. As for the 24" rims, give it time, I'm sure. :sick: And yeah, that brown is about the worst choice imaginable for that '75 LeSabre. If it was blue or red or white, it would be a world of improvement. Some Buick Mag wheels would dress it up alot, too.
That diamond jubilee T-bird is nice. Reminds me a bit of the 1979 Heritage that one of my Mom's cousins had a few years ago. I loved the plush interior and the trunk that had higher quality carpeting than most passenger cabins!
Yeah I was looking local and since I am so close to Philly lots from over the bridge show up.
I'd fear the HT4100 engine
I would too. I have an Uncle that has had various 80s Caddys with the 4100 and he claims the trick to keep them running well is to be very diligent on the cooling system. Who knows? He always had good luck with them.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I am a sucker for a white car w/blue interior. It is funny how most older cars tend to have hub caps and not alloy wheels. Today, its the opposite.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Now that I think about it, did the '75 Delta 88 or Caprice even offer any kind of mag/rally wheel? It seems like those Buick 5-spoke magnums are common on LeSabres and even Electras, while the Rally 2 was common on Pontiacs. But I can't recall ever seeing anything on a Delta or 98 other than a hubcap or wire wheel. And ditto the big Chevies by that time.
My Grandfather had a Olds (88 or 98) with the diesel and I remember him complaining about when I was a kid. He called it a "pig" and it didn't stay around long, he replaced it with a Riviera (84ish). I loved that car and still do today, wouldn't mind finding a nice example. His was very similar to "big [non-permissible content removed]'s" from the Sopranos
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
If they did, like you, I've never seen it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
The Cadillac Patriot: egads, lame-o 4100 engine, the wire wheel covers (granted, most Caddies of this era had them), the dumb roof, but most of all, who the hell, in 1983, would buy a Cadillac with a factory 8-track? I know their target audience at the time weren't exactly audiophiles, but still....