Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Perhaps I am too harsh, but I always marveled at how Detroit could go on designing cars like this in 1978, as if they were on another planet and had never seen a 1978 German, Swedish or Japanese car as the latter munched greedily upon Detroit's market share.

The level of disconnect with reality is pretty startling. Maybe that's unfair, given that we in the future know so much more than they did in the moment. Nonetheless, there had to be a foreign car showroom in Michigan somewhere.

Basically, these are nothing more than 1958 cars re-skinned.

andre1969

Perhaps I am too harsh, but I always marveled at how Detroit could go on designing cars like this in 1978, as if they were on another planet and had never seen a 1978 German, Swedish or Japanese car as the latter munched greedily upon Detroit's market share.

Why did they keep building cars like this? Because that's what the people were overwhelmingly demanding back in those days. That was the heyday of the personal luxury coupe, and the Mark V was undoubtedly the king of that hill. IIRC, Ford ran off something like 70-90K per year of these in 1977-79, and I'm sure they were almost pure profit. The Mark V probably could have gone on another year or two before being downsized, but tightening fuel economy regs and the recession in 1980 saw to that. This car didn't give a damn about those dainty little furring things...its aim was solely at the Cadillac Eldorado. And in these years at least, it reigned supreme.

The domestics might have been giving up market share in the lower segments, such as economy cars and the sporty market served by the likes of the Celica, 280Z, etc. And cars like BMW and Mercedes might have been doing pretty well as well. However, Cadillac and Lincoln had some of their best sales years EVER during the late 70's. So they must have been doing something right. Or at least, giving the public what it wanted.

Mr_Shiftright

Well that is the classic apologist argument for Detroit's mediocrity, but if we put a closer magnifying glass upon it, through the lens of history, we might see that "what the public wanted" was a) changing rapidly and b) is not the way to survive in the auto industry.

You have to give them something NEW to want, otherwise, your customer base just dies off---which is exactly what happened in the luxury car market for Detroit. All their customers bought these big boats until they couldn't see well enough to drive anymore. :P

Then searching for a new customer base, Cadillac and Lincoln ran head long into Mercedes Benz and BMW, and crashed.

Detroit was off chasing a dream that didn't exist anymore.

boomchek

If you scroll down to the bottom of the listing, there's a link to his home page with his cars. He has some interesting stuff. Here's the link: Seller's Car Page

ghulet

.....as much as I LOVE (truly) the old American luxo-barges, when the BMW 318i/325e arrived here in '84, the car they replaced most often was....the Cutlass Supreme (not that those are 'luxo-barges', but it illlustrates the changing of tastes). My neighbor (now 66) had a '79 Grand Marquis, which was traded for an '86 Accord LX (then a '95 Integra, now has an Acura RSX).

boomchek

I like that look too. Most GM cars had that during the 90s. But the Lincoln MarkVIII was the most extreme example of wrap around dashboard.

fintail

Wow, I didn't notice that. I spotted the Excalibur, cool ....and some interesting stuff there too, I noticed the SL74 and the 745 turbo. The unrestored cars are always interesting. Something there for everyone...that guy must own a bank or something :shades:

boomchek

Yeah he does have a nice collection. I wonder if he ad the 2 Lincolns since new, or if he picked them up somewhere recently. I'll give him credit for looking after his vehicles, they all look immaculate.

garv214

Hmmm....Seems like the SUV implosion of 2008 was just a little bit of history repeating...

fintail

The pics on that site make him look too young to have bought those things new ~30 years ago. I think there's a quantity of those kind of cars that change hands as owners die off or tire of them.

And yeah, the cars all look spotless. Someone must have a fulltime job caring for those things.

The Eldo Brougham is one of the cooler cars there too...impressive interior.

Mr_Shiftright

Funny thing--sounds like the 80 Eldo Limo is set up with a suspension far superior to the "slop job" handing (as he calls it) of later Cadillacs. The 85 Eldo is a horror show to drive IMO, so he seems to know what he's talking about.

I don't like any of his big cars but I liked the Corvettes and the Benz.

fintail

I meant the 58 Eldo Brougham, of course ...the 80s ones do little for me. I'd prefer the 78 Fleetwood or the nice and I suspect modified bustleback on his 'previous cars' page to the 80s ones. I remember a convertible like his was once in an episode of "Who's The Boss"...which doesn't make me think the car is especially cool.

His blue 66 Eldo is also kind of pretty, great color.

He also had a nice late W108

explorerx4

for some reason, I decided to do a quick google creep on the original owner's name.
Her middle initial was 'E' and her maiden name started with 'H', which matches the correction made on one of the original documents!

The other strange thing is at the bottom of the pictures of the cars 'Boom posted, there is a picture of the guy and I assume his wife sitting in a red/orange Corvette.
I have a very similar picture at work. same car, although from further away. :surprise:

gsemike

There is something that he doesn't want to mention

Hard to tell exactly what shape this one is in

I can't follow his shorthand but this looks decent for a C4 I've heard that 85 is the year to have out of the early ones

I have no idea what this is worth

I think he's right that this is good for the price It is what it is, just take it to local cruises

Remember these?

Like more details but this could be priced right

Looks pretty good

Does this do anything for you Andre?

'Custom Paint'

stickguy

not the cars (although some of them might be heading there). The spelling. one car had "knew" oil, etc. And another had a new "time bell".

Good thing Richard doesn't read these.

Mr_Shiftright

71 Monte Carlo Project --- "I will keep it if i dont sell it." Well, yes....

93 Volvo 960 ----hmmmm....broken timing belt on an interference engine with the belt also driving the water pump. I'm thinkin' junk yard for this baby.

1948 Willys CJ2 --- the fiberglass tub dramatically alters value, but....if it's in nice shape, a 50% discount over a "real" one would still be $6,500. So it may be worth the money. Depends how "original" everything else really really is.

85 C4 -- well it is an automatic. I'm thinkin' $4900 is all the money here. The slush-box is at least a 15% deduct. Not a bad car, but troublesome regardless of year, and they do age in dog years. I'd take a chance on a clean 5 speed with low miles if the price was right, but I know I'd be messin' with it more often than not. Fortunately, parts ARE available at Pep Boys! :P

74 Vette -- I'm not seein' a bargain here. These mid 70s Vettes are as cheap as dirt right now, so why not fork up a few thou more and get one that doesn't need paint upholstery and god knows what else?

fintail

My mom almost bought a nearly new Eagle Vision back in the day, right after they became an orphan. Her mechanic told her it would be a bad idea.

That Tercel is nauseating.

gsemike

How about this 78 Pace Car

Does it matter that it's a two owner car when one apparently left it in the bottom of a lake?

Mr_Shiftright

Seems about retail ($11,000 to $13,000) for a 78 Corvette Pace car in clean "driver" condition, turn key, very presentable throughout. The seller obviously knows the market very well.

stickguy

man, if that was in Oceanside, I know where it was parked. or at least one in the same color combo, and general state of crapitude.

my first car was a '67 camaro, 6 cyl. powerglide (hey, it only cost $300). Now, this was back in 1979, and it had more rust than that one. No rear fenders, and the trunk floor ended about 6" before the rear valance (so not a good idea to put anything in the trunk).

But, I was in HS, and it was technically a camaro, so tres cool!

tjc78

Good thing Richard doesn't read these

I was thinking the same thing

explorerx4

ditto!

andre1969

Does this do anything for you Andre?

Not really, other than a dry heave or two. :P Might make an okay beater though, and at least it's a nice color combination. Pray that the a/c and power windows work though, because midnight blue leather in a midnight blue car is probably hotter than hades in the summer! My '79 NYer, which is the same color, is bad enough just with cloth!

ghulet

I don't get how this thing has 17 bids, or that they've even gone this high:
link title

ghulet

I had no idea that a rough (though original) 32 Ford would be this expensive:

link title

Mr_Shiftright

Oh yeah, an original '34 Ford 3-window is going to bring very good money. The bids are a bit strong, but being all metal, a V-8, and the model everyone dies for---it's probably worth it.

I presume it will become a rod since restoring it to factory spec seems pointless. You can buy a show car for maybe $60K, and you ain't getting THERE from HERE for THAT.

71 Chevy Wagon --- maybe they want the motor?

ghulet

....that 71 wagon has no motor (ad says 'was a big-block car'), and it literally looks like it has no usable parts, except maybe wagon-specific doors or something--I don't get it, even at $600.

The Ford, I guess I get it, since some of the rods made from these bring crazy (IMO) money, like north of $75k in come cases.

stickguy

I don't get it either. No motor? In that shape? Forget the derby, it looks like it would crumple if you tried to pull it out of the mud.

I do like any car ad where they leave the empty beer cans in the trunk for the pictures. Nothing like a good detail to sell a car!

ghulet

.....that it's Bud Ice or some other super-classy beer.

qbrozen

AND THE RESERVE HASN'T BEEN MET!!!
:surprise: :surprise: :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes it's just hard to make sense out of these things. Really, in an auction, all you need is two people who want the same thing in order for the bids to go up---they don't have to pass a psychological test after all. :P

When we drive every day, we don't presume everyone else on the road is sane.

jlflemmons

Or two logins to start a shill bidding war.

:surprise:

not that someone would do that to get an old rusted hulk out of their yard ...

gsemike

You have to remember that the beer cans are worth 15 cents so that comes right off the top. I think that he's got his friends pumping it up for him.

jrosasmc

And others here on the board - I saw this one on Ebay that you usually don't see on the roads anymore. This is what likely has to be the nicest 1977 Volvo on the planet. I've seen plenty of Volvos from the '70s, believe me, but none as nice as this. I would've bid on it because it's near my home in Virginia but I do not have the money or storage space - I'd hate to see this one go to waste. What do you think of it - would this be something you'd buy?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volvo-240-242-1977-Volvo-242-Original-Flathood-Am- azing-Shape_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414cefae22QQitemZ280463650338QQptZUSQ5fCa- rsQ5fTrucks

gsemike

Depends on what it's worth to you. U-Haul might want their hitch back though

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe if it were cheap enough but she's certainly no cream puff and given that the seats are totally shot as well as struts, dash cracks, sun faded carpets, etc.--- one has to wonder about the mileage claim.

But at $1900, no harm done...she's slow, steady and clumsy, but a pretty reliable car no doubt.

2,200 miles a year? That's a pretty bodacious claim.

qbrozen

I agree with shifty. Really nothing all that special here, and I too wonder why the seat foam would be shot at just 70k miles.

BTW, my dad had the sedan version of this, same color. Drove it 280k miles before selling it back in the '80s at some time. He did repaint it and changed it to silver after a drunk drove into the front corner. Totalled his car, which was a '70s boat of some sort, and the volvo only suffered a crushed fender, bumper, and corner light.

ghulet

....so what are you gonna do with the 190E? Depending on the prognosis (sp?) of my 528e, I may need a replacement..... :sick:

qbrozen

I'll be selling it. Figured I'd wait till spring. It is serving as a good blizzard car right now.

As long as everything continues to work on it, I'll probably start out asking around $1995. Might even throw in both sets of tires. I can't see what use I have for 15" snows otherwise. Or maybe I'll sell it with the snows and use the all-seasons on my Z to drive to and from the autoX. hmmm...

My pickup will be going around that time, too. That might be like $995. Wish I could get the engine quieter, but something is just wrong inside it. I just replaced the lifters and it is still very noisy. Oh well.

210delray

The seat foam and for that matter, the spring "net" underneath, deteriorates with age, not just mileage. I should know -- I had an '80 240 bought used in 1982 that I kept for 21 years.

Also, the plastic odometer gears have a habit of breaking due to aging and use, so the odo stops working. Mine started going bad well after 200K miles, only intermittently at first in hot weather.

I don't believe the car has only 71K miles. Coincidentally, both my '98 Nissan Frontier and '04 Camry passed this mileage mark just this week.

qbrozen

I was mistaken.
turns out Dad had a 140, not 240. (144e, to be more specific)

explorerx4

i hope you called to ask.

qbrozen

I sent him the link to that ebay car and asked if he ever missed his. He then corrected me.

stickguy

Hey, I learned to drive on a Volvo 144S ('69). dual carbs (and I believe my folks spent a lot of time getting them adjusted. That, and replacing any of the 12 mufflers). The E (injection) didn't come along until 1971.

Man, I loved that car.

Mr_Shiftright

That year was sort of a transition car. It had components from the 122S and 144S on it. The carbs were beautifully simple but most American mechanics simply did not understand them. One critical factor is that air must not leak through the throttle shafts--if it did, you'd never get proper adjustment. This required re-bushing the shafts at a machine shop, but once done, the carbs were perfect. I must have fixed dozens of botched-up SU carbs.

The best set up is to take the B20E head and put it on an older carb engine.

qbrozen

well, i had a somewhat interesting afternoon. 2 guys pulled up while I was outside trying to get my $5 garage sale find snow blower running and they asked if I wanted to sell my pickup. I said I was planning to in the Spring. Leader asked how much. I said $995 after I fix what needs fixing and clean it up. He offered $500 as it sits right now. I thought for a minute and took the deal.

What price for convenience? I sold cheap, yes, but I offloaded a project (one that needed brake work, a battery, and some rust repair) and am now saving the insurance on a vehicle that was just sitting there anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

One more sale for Down The Road Motors---my kind of deal. Cheap and cheerful.

jlflemmons

I too have reached that stage of life where the effort of a project can more easily succumb to the green in my hand

Mr_Shiftright

If the car project requires more than:

1. a hose
2. a vacuum cleaner
3. wax and armor-all
4. one can of spray paint
5. 4 hours of manual labor
6. one hour at DMV
7. one small tube of glue
8. 6 rags or towels
9. Anything more than a 3/8 socket set

I'm pretty much done with it. :shades:

tjc78

4. one can of spray paint

Just out of curiousity.... what's that for? Are you rattle-canning body panels like the guy on Wheeler Dealers?