Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

1416417419421422854

Comments

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Preferably less than $10K, but I would go higher. I'd like a manual transmission. I'd like to avoid black cars. Other than that, I am not so picky.

    Autotrader shows exactly zero cars like this within 100 miles of me. There are a few in Atlanta, but that would mean me having a whole day to go look at it. That won't happen anytime soon.

    I could try talking the wife into a Z3 again, but there isn't any of those around either. Well, there is one at a dealer about 90 miles away that has 138K on it and the TCS and ABS lights are on. I figure you'd need to spend $1000-2000 to fix that. And what kind of person drives a nice car without attending to such issues anyway?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Would the newer 2007+ Sebring convertibles be a horrible experience too, or just the older ones?

    I like the style of the older 1996-2000 Sebring 'vert, and the 2001-2006 isn't bad either, although the interior seems cheapened a bit.

    I know that the further back you go, the more troubleprone the transmission is. And the 2.7 is more sludge-prone than other engines if you don't keep up on oil changes. The 4-cyl has all the refinement of a 1939 Massey-Ferguson tractor. I don't think the Mitsubishi-sourced 2.5 V-6 used from 1996-2000 was a bad engine, though...just a bit weak by modern standards.

    But, overall, were they really THAT horrible?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Consumer Reports has the reliability as much worse than average. The interior looks to be done by Fisher Price. I've heard they are pretty loose feeling and not much fun to drive. For all that, you might as well buy a contemporary Mustang GT and at least have some torque.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Most auto mags use words like "disastrous" and "much-despised", so I cleverly read between the lines and deduce that these words might mean something. :P
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,807
    Thought maybe you were crazy... but I'll be damned... searched cars.com and came up empty there, too.
    Is Alabama some kind of anti-bmw state?

    edit: oddly enough, if I search non-verts, I came up with a couple of hits.

    Like this grossly overpriced E30. That looks alot like mine, except with far fewer miles, and a handshaker.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    3-Series to a Sebring???

    :cry::cry::cry:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    how would something like an '84-85 era Riv or Toronado be? They were pretty good as closed coupes (not including the Eldorado here, because it had that notorious 4.1 V-8, while most Toro/Rivs had the trusty Olds 307).

    I just don't like most convertibles that have came out since the convertible made a comeback in the early 80's, as most of them are just too small for my tastes. Except for the Sebring. But then it seems to have its other issues.

    I've always kinda liked the convertible versions of the Toro/Riv though. They were done by an aftermarket company though, rather than in-house, so I wonder if they're a bit extra-shaky as a result?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    It was an expression of my frustration, kind of like saying I might as well kill myself. You know, might as well buy a Sebring.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I have a feeling I actually wouldn't mind a Sebring, for something cheap and fairly economical to go topless in. But yeah, if you really want a BMW, settling for a Sebring is like wanting filet mignon, but settling for a couple of hot dogs at the gas station!
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I have a feeling I actually wouldn't mind a Sebring, for something cheap and fairly economical to go topless in. But yeah, if you really want a BMW, settling for a Sebring is like wanting filet mignon, but settling for a couple of hot dogs at the gas station!

    Oh, ouch! That seems harsh.

    I've had some preliminary discussions with my wife about a convertible ... she wants something comfortable to ride in and has specifically mentioned a Sebring. She also likes the last generation T-Bird as well.

    I, OTOH, would like something a bit more sporty - Mustang GT or a CPO 1 or 3-series. I've also thought about a Saab 9-3.

    I'm pretty sure it'll have to have 4 seats, even if 2 of them are useless for anyone over 4' tall, so the following are probably out:

    Z3 / Z4
    Boxter
    350Z / 370Z
    S2000
    SLK
    Miata

    Which is OK, since I'm guessing that a 4 seater will be somewhat cheaper to insure than a 2 seater.

    Might also consider an Eclipse Spyder, G6 hard-top vert or a Solara. Lots of choices.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    That is a lot for a 92. Looks like they'll be stuck with it the whole summer.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Well, I'll confess that the "gas station hotdog" popped into my mind because I remember years ago, the local Citgo was selling them, 2 for $1.00. So, I ate there and got gas. :shades: For some reason, my supervisor would bring it up every once in awhile, about me being cheap and eating gas station hot dogs for lunch. Hell, I didn't care...they weren't bad for 50 cents apiece!

    I had forgotten about the G6 retractable and the Solara. I don't really care for the newer Solara, with its overdone front-end, and the way it seems too high in the rear. But the earlier model seems pretty nice.

    I wonder how roomy the G6 is inside?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    My wife really wants a four seater, but none of those other than BMWs appeal to me or my wife. The list of cars you have eliminated is far more exciting to me.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I wonder how roomy the G6 is inside?

    Front seat, not so bad; rear seat - well, like most convertibles, it would help if you were a double leg amputee.

    What bugs me most about the G6 is that when the top is down, there's about 2 or 3 cubic feet of space in the trunk!

    That's why the back seat is so important .. would provide a place for my golf clubs and / or luggage.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,361
    edited May 2010
    My GFs father just bought a Sebring for a "fun" car and for my GFs 16 year old sister to drive. Its an 03 with a tick under 100K. Its just ok. There is a good bit of cowl shake when hitting bumps, and the engine/tranny combo (V6) is unrefined at best. IMO if you want that type of 'vert go with a Solara, at least the Toyota 3.0/3.3 is smooth as silk and the car is overall very reliable. I had a 2000 Solara coupe with the 3.0 V6 and was a great car (but no sports car).

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    dangit, I knew I shouldn't have looked, because damn if I didn't find one that I kinda like!

    Looks like it's a total stripper, with the exception of the V-6. Oh the humanity, it looks like you have to adjust the front seat manually! And, are those plastic wheelcovers I see? But, I like the combination of fairly new (5 years old) and fairly low-miles (59-60K), for a reasonable price. My 2000 Park Ave had less miles than that (56,372...yes, sometimes numbers just stick in my mind like that :blush: ) but sometimes I do worry about its age (10 years). Still, it was 5 months to the day that I brought it home (12/14/09), and I've logged about 4,000 miles since then, and no issues yet, so I guess it'll last for awhile.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,922
    edited May 2010
    Looks like it's a total stripper

    Eh; even strippers can be fun... for awhile. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    edited May 2010
    Eh; even strippers can be fun... for awhile.

    Yeah, until you either catch something or they bleed you dry, or you try to engage one in meanfingul conversation. :shades:

    Still though, I don't think that 2005 Sebring would be a horrible car. The transmission is basically a transverse-mounted version of what was in my Intrepid. it's more likely to shred behind a 3.5, or in something heavier like a minivan, but with the smaller engines they weren't bad. And at only 59,000 miles, even if that 2.7 was abused, hopefully the miles are still low enough that it's not condemned to early failure. FWIW, while the 2.7 does sludge up, every mechanic I've ever talked to said that you have to let it go like 10-15,000 miles between oil changes, let it run low, let it run hot, etc, to get it to do it.

    I do like that car, but I'm not at a stage in life where something like that would really be useful to me. If I had a long commute to work, I doubt I'd be enjoying it with the top down, stuck in traffic, in a Sebring. And with the short commute I do have, I'd much rather do it leisurely in my '67 Catalina, than a comparitively boring Sebring. And, if I need to lug 4 or 5 people around, something like my Park Ave would be better suited for that. Heck, even my '67 Catalina convertible would be better suited for that...I swear it's a better 6-passenger car than most vehicles built today, short of a minivan.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    Z3 1.9 - kinda slow, kinda buzzy, doesn't like to rev, and I think the clutch is close to going. The dealer loves 4-cyl BMWs for some reason and seems to really think it is worth at least $8. So, no go.

    2000 Miata - nice car, but really small. I thought they got a little bigger in the 1999 redesign, but I guess not. My head and knees were begging for mercy.

    1997 SL500 - My wife really liked this one. It is in great shape, but the thought of maintaining it scares me. I think it is a bit overpriced.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,807
    Nice color, too. Similar to the color of the '98 626 I leased.

    You (and probably I) will have to test drive a later model Sebring to get it out of our systems.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    1968 Shelby GT 350 on ebay.

    EVERYTHING IS STILL WITH THE CAR except the radiator so please do not ask if it has ay missing stuff...I have never totaly inspected all the metal on this car. And now it is sandwiched where I can not look at it. These are the only pictures I have and cannot get this car out for more............. Please address any question accordingly.

    :confuse:
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I hope people remember they are bidding on a '68, not a 65-67. Big difference.

    I think at $32K the current bidder is already a loser on this one.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Is it because he'll have to sink in a ton more to get it restored?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,361
    I have never totaly inspected all the metal on this car. And now it is sandwiched where I can not look at it. These are the only pictures I have and cannot get this car out for more

    Another lazy seller, if you sell it won't you have to get it out then? I just don't get these people who have something that could be valuable and just "throw in on Ebay". An afternoon spent digging it out, organizing the parts and actually being able to answer questions would go a long way.

    On another note, that looks like it would be one heck of a project. Its in some sad shape.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Yeah, I don't get sellers like that either. They'll put up an ad and be too lazy to either answer questions, or take better pictures. What's worse is when someone is asking the world for a vehicle and they have crappy 2 or 3 cell phone pics posted up of it.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    It'd be one thing if this was some $3,000 heap, but he's wanting tens of thousands of dollars :surprise: So a little work on his part would probably net him several thousand.

    And what's with "This is a highland green car with a black interior." Bad repaint, in purple???

    Then there's "This project has everything that makes it a Shelby. All the high price shelby components are still with this project. ... I don't think the J-Code engine is a numbers match. It is the correct vintage 68 302 4V motor." So the engine's not original, but we should trust him it's correct?

    What a mess....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, basically a '68 Shelby is worth nothing near a '65---by 1968, this was a Ford produced vehicle (I mean, my god, they were selling them to Hertz!) and while a bit rarer than the 65-67s, not as collectible or desirable. Still, a nice one can pull 75K or so.....but can you get from "dog" to "nice" on a $35,000 or so budget?

    Nope.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Oh I see. I'm don't know much about values of muscle cars so to me $30k seems ok but if the parts are not numbers matching and it needs a ton of work, and it won't net more than $75k restored then I see how a new owner can bury themselves in this restoration.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited May 2010
    Davidsfarm got something odd, maybe Andre would drive it...almost seems too nice to destroy compared to the other wrecks there.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's funny what they call "clean" up there. Looks like a rat to me. Seats torn, dirty carpet, filthy engine, dull/worn out paint. Body looks pretty straight though.

    Not a bad $1000 beater. :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Ontario is murder on cars. Some of the late 90s cars he drags in are a hundred times worse than that old boat. That thing is pristine in comparison. Makes me glad I am on the west coast.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I guess you're right. It depends on what you are used to. In California, that's a beater. In the UK, a show car! :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Nobody ever says "British (or Ontario) quality restoration" :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Yeah, I'd definitely drive it. I always liked the Parisienne, although I never really cared for the name. And it's nice to see one minus the vinyl roof and wire hubcaps.

    I always thought a 1985-86 Parisienne, with Pontiac Rally 2's, and minus the fender skirts and vinyl roof that almost seemed mandatory those two years, preferably in black, would be a sharp looking car.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    edited May 2010
    For sale in my neck of the woods is a Mercedes 560SEL customized by German tuner Lorinser. The car has a full body kit, wheels, and a custom leather interior. All wrapped up in mono-chromatic white very Miami Vice. I have not driven the car but I've looked at the car and it looks average for its age with 210k miles.
    I talked to the seller who told me that he is the second owner and that he bought the car from a well known (at least locally) former NBA star. He is very proud of the car and is asking in the neighborhood of $10k which I think is absurd.
    I really could care less about its provenance but I think the car itself is interesting because of the tuner customization.
    I tend to think that it should be worth the same as a regular 560SEL in comparable condition plus a premium for the tuner customization.
    How much should that premium be I don't know . What do you guys think this car is worth? And yes I'm familiar with the "rent a car" rule of $35/day when dealing with cars with very high mileage.
    Thanks
    Jorge
    ">
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited May 2010
    If it was absolutely pristine with full records, mechanical bill of perfect health, rebuilt suspension, new consumables, and no missing trim pieces (as some of the aftermarket stuff is irreplaceable now), his price might not be far off. As it stands now, I'd be hard pressed to pay anything more than half of his price. The pseudo-celebrity provenance is worthless - the car is a curiosity for its custom trim, nothing more. If it didn't have the trim, it might be worth 2K.

    IIRC there is a very similar car for sale in my area, it's a Lorinser Euro 500SE/L in that weird purplish dark blue used on many show cars in the mid 80s. This one is in very good condition, and I think the owner wants around 10K for it. He's tried to sell it off and on for awhile - no takers. I like those cars a lot, but somehow it doesn't get me going. Very small market for these things - I think a lot of the people who like that style will spend extra and find a full AMG/Hammer or a Koenig Special.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    Fintail I wanted to post pictures this car with my original message but I don't have a website to upload my pictures. I did see an ad in CL for a purple 560sel with what looks like one of those hideous Koenig wide body kits you know the cheese grater look ala Testarossa. The Lorinser is very low key by comparison closer to AMG.
    Jorge
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited May 2010
    I think about $2500 to $3500 is all the money in the world for it. Value is based on supply and demand and there is very little demand for this type of car---plus we have the extremely high mileage, and the brutal maintenance costs and the fact that mostly it's a body kit with minor engine tuning. So I don't see any justification for adding a premium for the Lorinser business. You know, if it were a better known tuner, like AMG, with supercharging and 500 HP---well that's a different story. Or if you were selling it in Dubai, maybe.

    I think a perfectly stock, clean, low mileage 560SEL could actually bring *more* money than this car in the US.

    And lastly, with absolutely no offense intended, most people today find these cars to be examples of 80s bad taste. I suppose there is a perverseness to that which in itself might have market appeal--sort of like the '59 Cadillac.

    I have seen nice tuner Benzes, but they tend to be *very* subtle---more "stealth" than "wealth".

    You know, tastes change and so do markets.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    edited May 2010
    Hi Shifty,
    I like the way you think! No offense taken as I have described this car to others as a "pimped out Mercedes". The body mods are not radical and somewhat low key except fot the chorme wheel arches ugh!
    I've had a hard time finding information on Lorinser eventhough they are still in business and have a presence on the web. When I first saw this car I went home and got out my book on custom Mercedes. The book devoted whole chapters to AMG (off course), Brabus, and others but Lorinser was given a caption on a couple of pictures of exhaust tips.
    Jorge
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    edited May 2010
    I don't mind somewhat 'stripped', but that Pariesienne didn't even have A/C, no tilt, nothin'; in fact, I don't think I've ever seen one THAT basic. I'm shocked it even had a radio. It must be a Canadian version, what with the speedometer in kilometers only.

    I think the '83-84s never had skirts (one of my block-away neighbors had one, in two tone blue, no vinyl roof either).

    Funny, on my morning errands today, I saw its older sibling, a '79ish once-fancy Bonneville Brougham sedan (light blue, blue vinyl top), beat up, rusty, rear bumper held on with straps, but at least moving under its own power, driven by an 'older' woman going to Menard's.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Here's more about them:

    http://www.sportservice.lorinser.com/en/company/chronicle/

    The list of celebrities they display rather speaks to their aesthetics IMO. Also I find it somewhat amusing that they are rather proud of catering to what I'm guessing is a code word for Russian mafia. :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I could probably live with the no a/c, as long as all four windows at least rolled down. I did think it was a bit odd to see it with no a/c though. I think that was more common in Canada than here in the US.

    And yeah, the '83-84 Parisienne didn't have fender skirts. It was a bit of a hatchet-job. Essentially an Impala with a Pontiac grille designed to fit in the same spot as a Caprice/Impala grille (in 1977-81, you couldn't just swap a Catalina or Bonneville grille onto a Chevy...you probably had to take the whole front-end clip, and even then the creases in the fender wouldn't match the creases in the rest of the car). In back, it used the Impala rear end with modified taillights, rather than the Caprice. And inside, it used a Chevy dash, just with four round dials instead of four square ones. It really was just a thinly disguised Chevy, although I do prefer it to a similar-vintage Caprice or Impala.

    For 1985, they gave it a more "proper" rear end reminiscent of the 1980-81 Bonneville, although I'm unclear as to whether parts like the rear bumper, taillights, trunk lid, fender skirts, etc, would interchange between an '85-86 Parisienne and an '80-81 Bonneville. Could be the same parts, they could just look similar. I also can't remember if they made the skirts standard on the '85-86 Parisienne, or if they were just a very common option? I know I've seen the cars without them, but I guess it's possible the owners just took them off?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited May 2010
    If you open a carspace page, you can upload pics and host them there.

    Funny thing, when it comes to vintage tuner cars, the most sought after examples are either full AMG conversions or the most ostentatious Koenig or Gemballa/Sbarro etc style conversions possible. More tackiness = more demand (but still low). The most valuable tuned cars from that era are Hammers, 6 liter widebody AMG cars, and full-on Koenig Specials - the latter of which have a cult-like following in Japan of all places. A gullwing door SEC would also be desirable - but I don't know if those doors become maintenance issues with time. However, a mint low mileage untouched example will rival the value of a tuned car, with exception being full AMG jobs or maybe a good Koenig Special. Just like building a normal custom, the money is seldom recovered.

    The local Lorinser W126 is also subtle, apart from the weird color - bodykit, wheels, small rear spoiler, and a sport steering wheel. I don't know what it has under the hood. To be honest, I really like the AMG widebody SEC variants, and as a conversation piece I wouldn't kick a Koenig Special out of my garage either. But then again, I am far from normal :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited May 2010
    Nice link:

    image

    Now there's a cool MB ;)

    These days, Lorinser almost exclusively caters to the questionable "businessmen" set, loud celebs, and [non-permissible content removed] new money and trust-funders. I guess no different from 25 years ago - but the 80s are nostalgia, I don't know if today will ever be the same. I have seen Lorinser W220 and W211 cars for sale locally...the modern stuff doesn't add much of any value, and frankly I'd take a normal AMG before one of those.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    ">I posted the pictures to My Car Space - fortee9er's album how do I get them on a posting?.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    When you click on an individual image in your album, at lower right will be code for "embed image". Just copy and paste that code here (the stuff that says "img src" etc, and the image will appear:

    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    edited May 2010
    I don't know if you have seen it, but there's a good site devoted to period tuned Euro cars...I am sure you have seen it though, and some of the other material out there.

    There are also many Youtube videos showing period tuned cars.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    Thanks fintail
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    .......though I didn't see it mentioned, two days ago I saw a nice, tastefully done, though slightly lowered, Dinan 635CSi. I think Dinans mods were mostly mechanical, though.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.