Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

jlflemmons

If you can open the Lean Burn module, check the solder joints for the connector where the harness plugs in from outside the module. Not uncommon for joints on a circuit board to crack over time/vibration.

There were thousands of GM wiper control modules replaced for this issue, when all they needed was a resolder and to anchor the wiring harness so it wouldn't vibrate in the connector.

Good luck, and congrats for finally finding the issue! I know it has been bugging you for quite a while!

lemmer

We'll see how this goes, as I talked my wife out of this 2001 C70. She loved the way it looks, inside and out. I wasn't crazy about the rough engine and turbo lag. I was really kind of shocked about how rough and loud it is when you put your foot into it. I think I've been spoiled by my Honda V6 and my Lexus V8, but the Volvo Turbo 5 felt rougher than my old 944.

Qbrozen, aren't you a Volvo guy? Surely you've tried one of these...

gsemike

I agree with your wife that it is good looking

michaellno

...and find that I'm searching the 'net for stuff I'm not ready to buy yet.

What do the folks here know about these?

Seems like an OK price, but, who knows?

One other question ... what is the first year I should consider for a Boxster? I believe Shifty has said to avoid the gen 1 non "S" models, but what MY should I reasonably think is good? A number of choices between '01 and '04 at $15-22K with decent miles (under 50K in most cases).

jrosasmc

Lemmer, I'm a Volvo guy so I can also comment on the C70. I know the cars well because between my parents and I, we've owned five derivatives of the 850 and 70 Series cars over the last 14 years.

To me, the sound of a Volvo 5-cylinder engine isn't rough or loud - rather, it's music to my ears. I find that it has a melodius thrum to it, especially under moderate acceleration, and that exhaust note is just pleasing to hear. As for the turbo lag, I have to ask you: Do you remember if the '01 that you tested was the high-pressure (HP) or low-pressure version (LP)? The HP engine is the one that usually has the turbo lag - LP versions do not have much of it because they make 90% of their torque below 1600 rpm. And to be honest, HP versions work better with a 5-speed manual.

lemmer

I am wondering if I would get used to the engine note. Particularly with the top up, it just seemed really loud. I think it was a HP. The engine was labeled as a 2.3L. Does that not make it a HP? As for the manual transmission - I love the idea, but they are hard to find.

lemmer

Porsche 968s are good cars, but they were pretty much outclassed by their cheaper and more modern Japanese competition when they came out. They were built on the 924 platform that dated back to the mid '70s. That platform was a little long in the tooth by then. They are fairly maintenance intensive and parts and labor are just as expensive as any other Porsche.

jrosasmc

You definitely tested a car with the HP engine. It is indeed a 2.3-liter, and produces 236 horsepower. The LP engine, on the other hand, is of a 2.4-liter displacement, same as the naturally-aspirated motors, and makes a mere 197 hp in comparison. As for the 5-speed manuals, they were only available in the hardtop coupes, which were discontinued after '02. The convertible versions continued until early '04, by which time the old 850 platform was really starting to show its age in terms of driving dynamics and chassis stiffness.

qbrozen

It is a bit "rough" compared to a V6, for example. But it is pushing out 100hp per liter, also. So you may have to forgive a bit of that. I don't find the "roughness" at all intrusive when accelerating, however, only when sitting idling (even moreso after upgrading the motor and trans mounts to poly bushings). It really shouldn't have been very loud, though. Perhaps someone changed out the exhaust.(?)

As for the lag, that is something you get used to. You learn to drive around it. Even the HT peaks at relatively low rpms, so its not a LONG wait. It is just odd at first for someone who is used to instantaneous response. But when it does get moving, hold on! That's what I really like about it. The passing power is just unmatched by most other cars in its class. I have surprised the hell out of Mustang drivers from a rolling start.

On little point, though, and I think it is something I've mentioned on this very thread about this very car, you want to avoid the '01-'02. That is the first 2 years of the 5-speed geartronic and it is a notoriously weak point. Go with the '98-'00 for the robust and proven 4-speed, or go with the '03+ for the updated 5-speed.

qbrozen

I was going to correct you on the HP figure, but then I checked .... it is odd that they kep the C70 at 236, while the V70 and S60 were bumped up to 247.

jrosasmc

No offense but I will have to correct you on a point you made in the post before last. Geartronic was available on all Volvo models except the C70 - I've never seen a car from all the years it was offered ('98 through '04) with that manumatic transmission. All the C70s I've seen, both in person and online, that have been automatic have always had the old-fashioned P-R-N-D-4-3-L pattern. But at least those auto gearboxes were proven, durable units. Another point: if the car is a '99 through '02, make sure that the ETS (Electronic Throttle System) has been updated. The original unit used was faulty and this is a known point.

On the other hand, while we're on the topic of Volvos, I'm looking for a 960 for my dad to give to him as a retirement gift - he's never had a RWD 'brick' so this could be his first. Qbrozen do you know of any good 960s in your area up in NJ?

qbrozen

I believe even the "updated" ETS (ETM) are faulty. I've never seen a report of one that was permanently fixed (other than the aftermarket solid state unit, which is pretty pricey).

I can't say whether the auto trans in the '01+ was shiftable. It could be that it wasn't; however, it was still updated to the 5-speed auto. I could be wrong, but my assumption is it is the same 5-speed auto used in the S60 and V70. So it would still be a weak and faulty unit, would it not?

Actually, there was a real nice 9-series for sale at the indy volvo mechanic in freehold. Not sure if they would still have it. It wasn't a 960, though. It was something I'd never seen before. I'll have to look it up again and post back.

stickguy

Not sure what the tranny question was exactly, but you could get the convertible with a 5 speed stick. I know that I test drove one a couple years back, but maybe it was later than 01/02?

For sure in 2001 you could get the geartronic 5 speed, at least in a V70 T5, but most that you see (especially LP T models) are the non-GT normal AT.

qbrozen

hmmm... ya know, I still think it was something odder than this, but I don't see any on Wiki that it could have been other than maybe a 940 turbo.

stickguy

the 940 was an earlier style than the last 960s (which I think were renamed S90 at the end of the run). there was also a early 960, which IIRC was still a 4 cyl, but may have had a turbo, or just been a fancier model.

Not sure of the years, but the early 940 was pretty much an updated 740.

My SIL had a 940 than a new style 960. Quite a bit of a difference.

I actually like the late 960/S90 quite a bit. Almost bought one a few years back.

qbrozen

Just searched autotrader and did find verts with sticks. At least one was an '01 HT with manual. So I think you are correct.

jrosasmc

Stickguy, you were probably thinking of the 760. The 760 was first introduced in the U.S. in 1983 with less-than-desirable engines: a 2.4-liter turbodiesel six from VW and the infamous PRV 2.8-liter V-6. In '84, the 2.3-liter B230FT turbo was introduced and upped the performance quotient. The 740 would follow for 1985.

In 1991, the 700 Series spun off the 940, and in '92, the 960 made its debut.

lemmer

My dad bought an odd bird when I was 14 years old - a 1984 Volvo 760 GLE Turbo Diesel with a four speed manual plus overdrive. I had a lot of fun with that car as a teenager. The overdrive button serves as my James Bond smoke screen button. Depress it to shift out of overdrive at a decent RPM and cover the car behind you. Great fun.

lemmer

Shifty,

Have you been following the intermediate shaft failures here or elsewhere on the web? Excellence magazine is pegging an approximate 20% failure rate on all Boxsters and 996 model 911s up through late 2006 when Porsche apparently found a decent fix. I was excited that Boxsters post-RMS leak were getting affordable, but this worried me even more. No warning, just boom.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes I've heard of it although the claim of 20% failure rate seems way over the top. I have a friend who runs a very busy and well-known Porsche shop, so I'll inquire more about this. He sees plenty of Boxsters, and is an in-house engine-builder, so he'd certainly know.

toomanyfumes

How about Cayman's? A friend just bought a 2006 Cayman S with about 15K on it.
I'd like to give him a heads up if there's any issues.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I spoke to Hi-Tec Automotive in San Rafael, CA. They work on a *lot* of Boxsters and 996s.

They said that on the Boxsters, the intermediate shaft seals can go out frequently but this does not require a rebuild, just an engine-out to replace the seal and to examine, and if necessary, replace the intermediate shaft bearing. This is about a 10-hour job (and usually you do a clutch, since the engine is out). They figure 10% failure rate on the seal, at least. And yes, sometimes the intermediate shaft can fail as well.

On the 996, there are myriad issues, including again the shaft seal, but also timing chains snapping, chain guides disintegrating, rear main seal leaks, intermediate shaft failure, and head gasket failures.

I'd say that on a higher miles Boxster, one would definitely want to keep an eye out for shaft seal leaks and to catch that asap.

Apparently, Porsche devised an improved bearing and seal for the Boxster maybe around 2004 or so.

So, worst possibly scenario for your friend is 10 hour repair on the Cayman if a leak is spotted.

lemmer

Well, I guess that is a little reasurring.

As for the 996, that sounds pretty bad. 996 prices run almost twice that of a Boxster. I am just not convinced it is anywhere near twice the car.

qbrozen

Would like to try to get the bimmer out for sale this week. The most glaring flaw to me is the split seam in the drivers seat. I looked at it this morning and decided I'd give sewing it up a shot. Surprisingly, it came out very well. Huge improvement. Otherwise, only a little time left before work, so I just cleaned all my wife's junk out of it. Just need to detail it and take pics. So hopefully I can do that tomorrow night.

I haven't looked at the odometer in some time. Found it now has 125k on it. A bit higher than I thought. We bought it with 112k 3 years ago. I'm thinking of asking $3295 and take $2800. Maybe a bit optimistic. We'll see.

Next is the Benz. I'll probably ask $2295 on that. I'm debating now whether to leave the snows on it or swap back to the all seasons. The snows were definitely more expensive. So I should probably keep those. No idea what I would do with them, though.

michaellno

I'll probably ask $2295 on that. I'm debating now whether to leave the snows on it or swap back to the all seasons. The snows were definitely more expensive. So I should probably keep those. No idea what I would do with them, though.

Not that I've had a huge amount of success selling cars privately, but why not offer both sets of tires and bump your asking price up a bit? Seems like you could get a few hundred more if the buyer was already set for the winter.

Didn't you buy this for under $1500 a year or two ago? How much have you invested into it since you bought?

omarman

1969 Camaro S/S 396/375 hp originally sold at the local Chevy dealership here. Is it a "barn find" or just "barney rubble" trouble?

I'd like to see pics of the whole car - Nose to Tail- in its current state of (dis) repair.
Doesn't make sense to bid without all the bits and pieces right there - especially the engine.

Too bad the seller didn't just leave the car in the same condition in which he bought it.

stickguy

Yeah, I would have thought it was wroth more all original, but I guess if it didn't run (sounds like the drivetrain was shot), being rebuilt might be a good selling point. At least it sounds like they have all the original units, just refurbished.

But considering it still needs work, and is a bit bastardized being a racecar (and no prevenance for this one), aren't the bids up at 49K on the high side? Are beat up '69 SS396s that rare?

But, I love how they couldn't be bothered to take the miller lite can off the front fender in a couple of their pictures.

Mr_Shiftright

The bids seem crazy all right. The documentation about racing is *weak* at this point ("see sticker on window") and unless something new is unearthed here, whoever bid $49K and still needs to do the restoration is going to be buried for life on this car.

Barrett Jackson feverish malaria strikes again. People see a car on the TV screen sell for $100K but fail to look over the paid receipts that it took to get it to look like that. Worse yet, they don't see the market price once the car leaves the stage.

It's a game of musical chairs: "Mr. Jones paid $X for it, I bought it from him for $Y, and I want $Z for it now".

Someone gets left without a chair sooner or later. This auction might be the "later".

texases

And nowhere do I see any photos of the engine, the whole reason this this is supposedly worth BIG money. What's with that? Seller says you'll get the long block, but all I saw were pics of a head, and maybe the intake manifold.

Mr_Shiftright

You'd have to be batcrap crazy to bid on this car sight unseen.

gsemike

It's an intersting car but definately weird what the seller decided to do and what he left alone. Why a 2500 concours restoration of the tranny and then you can't tell if the nose is on the car or not? Why all the work on the heads and then you don't put the engine back together?

qbrozen

Wasn't even that long ago. It was like October, I think. Ummm.... hmmmm.... well, if I forget about the tires for a minute, I've put maybe $300 into it? I didn't keep very good track. I know there was the aux water pump for like $70. Tune-up was about $100, I guess. Fan rebuild kit ~$15. Pipes to bypass resonator was maybe $40. And some odds and ends I'm probably forgetting. And there were several things I fixed that took nothing but my time. End result, of course, is that it is in much better shape than when I bought it.

Problem with giving extra tires is that most people don't know what to do with them. They don't have a place to store them, etc. Plus they have to pay a shop like $100 to swap them every time. I figured I'd leave it out of the equation and maybe mention it post sale or during negotiations or whatever.

Mr_Shiftright

The Montego and the Duster we discussed recently have sold. The Montego went for $3000 which was right in our range of consensus at $2500--$3500.

The ratty Duster with the NOM engine went off higher than some of us thought, at $4150, but not as high as others of us thought.

I guess the built-up engine bumped the price up $500 or so, but I thought $3500 was all the money.

qbrozen

Actually, I pegged the Duster at $4k-$4500. So I win! :P

I also said "he'd be lucky to hit $3k" on the Montego. So it went right at the limit on that one. He can consider himself lucky.

Mr_Shiftright

Okay, you are our new resident pricing expert. This is a grave responsibility. Heavy is the head that wears the crown. :P

xwesx

Problem with giving extra tires is that most people don't know what to do with them. They don't have a place to store them, etc. Plus they have to pay a shop like $100 to swap them every time. I figured I'd leave it out of the equation and maybe mention it post sale or during negotiations or whatever.

That is my experience as well. Most buyers do not consider those extra tires to have any value to them and will not consider paying extra for the car to get them.

If I did not think I could use them myself, I would take the same approach as you are considering, Q. If that buyer chooses not to take them, I would just post them up on Craigslist and they will eventually sell.

Mr_Shiftright

I sold a set of METRIC tires from my BMW 735 and got a *great* price for them on eBay. Shipped 'em UPS.

qbrozen

Oh no. I didn't know that was the reward we were playing for. I would have guessed very differently had I be forewarned. :P

Mr_Shiftright

too late. Your crown and sceptre, the sacred orb and the holy lance, are all in the mail.

gsemike

The Montego deal looks like it's falling through but the Duster buyer looks like he's for real. At these prices, both these guys are in the black. The Monego was bought a couple of years ago, My friend has been sorting out odds and ends all along but never really loved the car or used it much.

The Duster is a flip. It sat for about 3 years because the MSD box went bad. My friend got in running and did some serious detailing and added the 360 strips which IMO made a big difference.

michaellno

Problem with giving extra tires is that most people don't know what to do with them. They don't have a place to store them, etc. Plus they have to pay a shop like $100 to swap them every time. I figured I'd leave it out of the equation and maybe mention it post sale or during negotiations or whatever.

That is my experience as well. Most buyers do not consider those extra tires to have any value to them and will not consider paying extra for the car to get them.

If I did not think I could use them myself, I would take the same approach as you are considering, Q. If that buyer chooses not to take them, I would just post them up on Craigslist and they will eventually sell.

Oh, wait .. you've only got the tires? Not mounted on a separate set of wheels? Then I totally revise my position.

I'll admit that I've never had a set of snow tires in the 16+ years that I've lived in Colorado, though I do understand the appeal.

My wife's best friend, who happens to work with her, has a Hyundai Santa Fe - FWD. They bought Blizzaks for it the winter before last and swear by them. Of course, it's got 18" wheels and the OEM Bridgestones (similar to what is on our VUE) are crap once the tread wears down. They switch out the summer / winter tires and don't have a spare set of wheels.

OTOH, my boss, who lives in suburban Toronto, swears by dedicated winter tires and wheels. She's told me that her husband has multiple sets of tires and wheels stored in their garage that they switch between each fall and spring.

xwesx

OTOH, my boss, who lives in suburban Toronto, swears by dedicated winter tires and wheels. She's told me that her husband has multiple sets of tires and wheels stored in their garage that they switch between each fall and spring.

I do that as well. However, if somebody does not think they are going to have a vehicle very long, it can be more cost-effective to do the seasonal change-outs than purchasing the extra set of rims. If new, a set of steelies will run about $180 (depending on diameter), but you have to consider that the tires must be mounted on them. Locally, that runs $60. So, you're in at $240, which is the equivalent of four seasonal change-outs, or two years. A typical set of winter tires will last 3-4 years (locally, anyway, where we are not running on dry roads most of the winter!), so if the owner keeps the car that long, they come out ahead by purchasing the rims. If qbrozen had purchased rims for those tires, he would definitely be in the hole selling the car six+ months later.

I never used to run winter tires, but purchased a couple of used cars that came with winter studs and then decided to get a set of dedicated studless tires for our new Subaru since my wife drives it 90% of the time. Because of that, now both of our daily drivers have dedicated winter tires and rims. I think it is very useful for my little FWD Escort, but the Subaru could easily get away without them as did our past three. However, with the winter tires, that sucker is unstoppable during the winter.

On my '98 Caravan, which I am about to sell, once I decided to sell it, I went ahead and advertised the extra set of mounted tires separately on Craigslist. I ended up selling the set of four 15" steel rims (the tires were pretty worn out at that point but went with the sale) for $120. Had I kept them, it would have no impact on the sale price of the van, from which I hope to get $1500.

omarman

Same 1969 Camaro S/S 396/375 hp which I posted earlier now bid up to $52,988.00 with 1 more day until end of auction. If this car were not scattered in pieces and begging for a year's worth of resto, then the bidding hx wouldn't look so bad to me.

There were some posts on another thread regarding "comps" with cars and houses for sale which has me wondering more about this old Camaro. There must be a ton of really nice Camaros for sale in this price range which are ready for cruising over this coming holiday weekend.

Mr_Shiftright

Just to show how bizarre these bids are, here's a frame-off SS 396 numbers matching for LESS money, already done!!

Real '69 SS 396/375, Restored

Here's a fabulous clone convertible for less as well:

Which would YOU rather have for the same money?

Here's a real big block but "only" a 350:

SS 396/350

tjc78

The real 69 SS is a very nice car, however, for that kind of money the bottom of the shifter appears rusted in the pic and the pedals look ratty to me. With the rest of the car looking so nice, how is this overlooked? Am I too picky?

Mr_Shiftright

Seems to me for the thousands of dollars less you are paying, than for the eBay wreck, you could take care of that and a whole lot more. :P

I know people that can detail an entire car top, bottom, inside, outside, for $1500 bucks and make it look fabulous.

tjc78

I see your point. However, IMO it should have been taken care of before attemping to sell it. I think I'll make him an offer... minus $1500 for that super detail you suggest!

andre1969

Yeah, seriously. How hard can it be to just take some chrome polish to the base of the shifter, and here's the brake pedal pad for $16.00. It's $5.50 if you can do without that silly "disc brakes" emblem in the center, which seems to me would make for a slipping hazard.

For almost $50K, seeing little things like this that are overlooked are going to make me wonder what else got overlooked.

qbrozen

Yup, yup. Just the tires. I have my own tire machine, so using just the 1 set of rims is much more cost effective for me. Although I now have something like 6 sets of tires in my loft, some for vehicles I don't have any more.

The Benz happens to be the first car I've ever tried snow tires on. It was to be my daily driver through the winter, and without all the modern electronic nannies, I felt it was a good idea. I was very very glad to have them this winter (record snowfall and number of blizzards, if I'm not mistaken. And they got us to the hospital during one of those blizzards at something like 2am). So I NOW swear by snow tires. Although I still think GOOD all-seasons with FWD or AWD is fine, too.

andre1969

How much did that tire machine cost you? Can it do balancing too, or just mounting/dismounting? I wonder if something like that would be worth it for me to check into?