Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

1413414416418419854

Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    A pile of pea gravel delivered to your driveway that is the size of a Rolls Royce is worth way more than that car.

    Funny you'd mention that, because I just came in from spreading gravel in my driveway, to fix a spot for my New Yorker so it doesn't have to sit on the grass, or get in the way and block the driveway or the garage on days when it decides not to start. Cost $582 delivered for 14 cubic yards, or 21 tons.

    Would it be conceivable that a Rolls would weigh 3 tons? I know they're heavy for their size, as they're solid cars, but that might be pushing it. Anyway, 3 tons would come out to about 83 bucks! :P

    Here's a pic of the NYer in its new resting spot...
    image

    And here's a pic showing its new parking spot in relation to the garage door...
    image

    And all that spreading barely made a dent in that pile of gravel...I have a feeling that pile's not going away anytime soon!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2010
    WEll then, presuming you could find a date correct 383, probably all the money for a really *nice* one of these would be about $40K----so once again, you can't get there from here.

    The car would have to be worth at least $75K--$80K for any kind of restoration from a vehicle this bad. What's the point? Just go buy one.

    http://cars-on-line.com/44481.html

    Offer him $33-35K for it and you're done.

    You can even buy a very nice 440 six-pack clone, all restored and date correct for probably $50K. That wouldn't be a smart "investment" however.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's probably what a wrecker would give you for it, yeah....presuming they didn't charge yo to haul it away. A parts breaker could make some money on it but there's no pot of gold in it, that's for sure.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    What would a nice '70-71 Challenger convertible with a 340 go for? Honestly, I'd be just as happy with something like that as I would a big-block. I'd even be happy with a 318, although I'm sure most of them, if they're in decent shape, have been turned into big-block clones by now.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A really nice, documented but not quite pristine show car? Probably $70,000.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,452
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm always fascinated, even in a non-critical (almost sympathetic) way, at the degree of self-delusion some car sellers can achieve. The ad copy is too sincere to be duplicitous.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,030
    i have noticed a few times lately on craig's, that scammers are getting outed just as you illustrated.
    the seller did point out it is 'one of a kind'. take it from there.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited May 2010
    Searching Ohio CL for early 70s cars $30k to $50k brought up a surprising group of 1972 examples. Most I know little or nothing about.

    1972 Z28 Camaro 4spd - $47000
    Not a 2nd gen F body fan but will the best '72 get this money? Verified, inspected, etc.

    1972 Road Runner - $45000
    How much for a 4-speed with air grabber hood then?

    1972 Corvette Stingray NUMBERS MATCHING 454 - $39900
    The color/stripes aren't my favorite here. Usually I like white cars.

    Classic 1972 OLDS - 442 - $37500
    I wouldn't know what a showroom '72 Olds 442 looks like-paint, hood, trim, etc. No engine pics either. Seems way high priced for a 442 option on the Cutlass, no W code engine.

    1972 GTO CONVERTIBLE 455 $35800
    4-speed? automatic? No link to decent pics. GTO "option" on the Lemans for 1972. It's a big block convertible though - other options not listed. Are those rims correct 1972 Lemans?

    So if it's a super clean #2 GTO automatic convertible with a 455/300hp could it be the "bargain" of the class of '72 here? (Not saying the best looking.)
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    edited May 2010
    The '72 "442" guy is smoking crack. In '72, Olds offered the Cutlass with 442 trim and stripes as an options. No real hi-perf here. If he gets offers at half that he should jump on them.

    The 455 was still available in the "real" 442. I know, because I worked for an Olds dealership and the summer of '73 I had to change the starter on a '72 442 with the 455.

    It was one of those deals where they put the starter on the engine, then put the engine in the car. I changed it with the engine in place, but with a lot of skinned knuckles and ill will toward some automotive engineers. Horrible job, that one was.

    EDIT: I just went back and looked at that ad again. The engine isn't even stock, but has had the carb, intake, and ignition changed. He will need a guppy to get half what he is asking. It wouldn't get that asking price even if it were a convertible, stock, in pristine condition.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    edited May 2010
    Nice '72, but modified

    The real deal for less money

    Wrong, dude, that is a Cutlass S
    The hood is a dead giveaway. The S was the lower trim level, and had the little inserts in the hood. The Supreme had a nicer interior, and no hood trim. Don't know that it would make much difference price-wise, but don't call it a Supreme when it isn't.

    If the numbers really match on this one,

    The guy has one of the most rare Cutlass convertibles ever built! I would have to see some hard proof on this one. And for the record, that would also be one of the squirreliest handling Olds ever built. Too much torque, not enought frame and body stiffness. But cool. Very, very cool.

    I had to add this one.
    Watch the youtube on this. The bozo goes into great detail about how it has a "real" W25 hood made out of steel, not one of the cheap fiberglass repro's.
    You think he would know that the originals were fiberglass, not steel, and that those scoops were not fake, but were part of a ram air induction system. It isn't until right at the end of the video that he mentions the car being a clone. Duh, ya think??? :D
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    as opposed to the 'S' have the 455 standard?
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    edited May 2010
    nah, the 350 was standard in both. The 455 was optional, but generally only seen in the 442. The Cutlass SX may be the one you are thinking of. It was a special touring version of the Supreme and came with a 455 2bbl and very tall highway gearing.

    IIRC, the S came with a 350 2bbl, the Supreme 350 4bbl.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    It would be interesting to know whether the larger displacement and the tall gearing of the SX compensated for the larger displacement, compared with the S, in terms of highway fuel economy. Do you happen to remember? I assume that the S got better fuel economy than the SX in the city.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    72 LeMans Convertible---it's not a bargain, it's a FAKE...worth, at best, 1/2 of what he's asking, or perhaps a bit less than that.

    Once again, it's rare, but does anybody care?

    Not at that price.

    First cars to get walloped in a recession are the clones and fakes and "tribute" cars.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Here's a link to a 1967 article from Car Life regarding the Olds Turnpike Cruising Package in the 60s which sounds similar to the SX option.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    So for '72 the LeMans convertible could be ordered with some individual GTO options but still be strictly a LeMans? That's good to know. Thanks Shifty!

    Could you take a look at one of the links from jlflemmons post #20849? Look for the one labeled: If the numbers really match on this one

    The seller there does NOT call his Cutlass a "442" but identifies some 442 options such as: W-30 INTAKE W-25 HOOD W-27 REAR ALL STOCK.

    I've never seen one like it. Could a '72 Olds Cutlass convertible get ordered as a real 442 (not sure how else to say that)? Or was it like the '72 LeMans convertible which could get some special ordered options but never be a real GTO?

    Some of the cars built during this "transition" period from are strange. I didn't post it earlier but there was a '72 Mustang which had a factory 351C/2bbl with a factory Ram Air option. Discussion about the car was that after mid 1972, ONLY the 2bbl 351C could get the Ram Air and not the 351C/4bbl! :confuse:
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    edited May 2010
    That '72 Cutlass convertible looks great-although on my screen it doesn't really look orange as the copy stated. Never saw one before with that hood, paint, trim, etc.

    I did a quick google search to find another '72 Olds with the orange paint to get a better idea of what it would look like in person. And for just a second I thought I had found a matching 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Vista Cruiser in the same orange/white-striped color as that convertible!

    But, no, it turns out the Vista Cruiser was modified by the seller. At least he identified the changes he made from stock. Still looks good for an early 70s wagon.

    Photobucket">
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    $47K for a '72 Z-28? Gimme a break. By that time, Z-28's were well on their way to being just another bland muscle car of the 70's. The engine displacement was increased to 350 in 1970 IIRC and de-tuned to make it a bit more drivable.

    IMO, if you're going to spend that kind of money, look for an original '67 Z-28, with the '302.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    edited May 2010
    ...'72 and later anythings are pretty seriously emmasculated, though Z/28s are relatively rare (2575 built).

    Now, as to that LeMans/GTO thing, things are way more confusing. The GTO was a separate 'option', available on both base LeMans (the hardtop) and the LeMans Sport (convertible). Now, pay attention here: a total of 3438 of those were built, including the GTO option or not. But, naturally my 'book' gives no breakdown of how many received which engine. So, his car is probably rare, but not that-kinda-money rare, though the 38 options thing is kinda nice, you'd probably have a comfy cruiser. :surprise:
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    You *could* order a 455 Cutlass convertible with a 4spd and the hood, etc, but why? You end up with a 442 in Cutlass trim, which may be what the original owner wanted. That's why I said if the numbers truly match, and if the guy has a build sheet on this beast, it would probably be one of the most rare configurations of Cutlass convertible ever built. Olds just didn't like to use the 4spd in the Cutlass. Would definitely either be a special order, or dealer mistake.

    A friend had a 442 in that orange/reddish color. It was dark orange, I guess? Not a bad color with a white top and interior, if you like those shades of orange.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Interesting article on that Turnpike Cruising Package! It makes me nostalgic for Olds.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    You *could* order a 455 Cutlass convertible with a 4spd and the hood, etc, but why? You end up with a 442 in Cutlass trim, which may be what the original owner wanted.

    I had wondered if the vagaries of 1972 production options limited the Cutlass convertible from being ordered as a 442 but I found this on Wiki, "113 W30 convertibles and 659 W30 coupes were made in 1972"

    Hmm. So if a 442 convertible with W30 option really was available in '72 then you must be right about that orange/white-striped Cutlass in your link: special order to suit either a particular customer or the dealer. As you said it's like "a 442 in Cutlass trim." Btw thanks for posting the link. Still a bit of a puzzle as to why someone wanted it ordered like that, but it's great to see it preserved.

    Assuming it does check out stock, the new owner won't likely meet his twin on the road-or at a car show. :shades:

    Back then the strangest Olds I recall seeing was my neighbor's '73 Hurst Olds in black and gold. It was his first new car and ordered from Chesrown Olds in Nerk, I think. When I first saw it in his driveway I didn't have a clue what it was. Remember how different that GM A-body looked back then?
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    edited May 2010
    At least a good portion of the reasons given for the demise of the muscle car (other than gas) was that insurance companies were charging through the roof. I'm thinking you could squeak by with an otherwise identical car, just with the more pedestrian name and save a few bucks:confuse: .
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Remember? I owned one. Not the Hurst, but the Cutlass S. Good car, very reliable, just the 350 4bbl. At that age (20) and with my personal familiarity with the ticket writing habits of most of the law enforcement agencies in the area, my insurance company would have just shot me if I had gotten the 455! :sick:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    edited May 2010
    Remember how different that GM A-body looked back then?

    My Mom bought a 1975 LeMans coupe brand-new, when I was 5. I'm not sure what color it was, exactly. Mom said it was called "bronze", but Dad said it was "persimmon". And looking at the color chart for that year, Pontiac offered both "Persimmon" and "Fire Coral Bronze".

    At the time, I didn't like the car...thought it was kinda ugly. But then, when I saw the '77 LeManses they used in "Smokey and the Bandit", I fell in love with that style with the quad rectangular headlights, for some reason. Enough so that I ultimately bought a '76 Grand LeMans coupe.

    I think the main thing I didn't like about Mom's '75 was the front-end. I just didn't like the big round single headlights, and it was sporting a bit of a beak up front. The eggrate grille also seemed a bit garish, and the big bumper just jutted out too far. Here's a pic of a '75, if anybody needs their memory jogged. Ours also just had basic hubcaps and not rally wheels, and I'm pretty sure that "NASA" hood scoop wasn't offered on a base LeMans!

    But with the '76-77, I just think the bumper fits better up front...it doesn't seem to jut out quite as badly. They're also not as "beaky", and I think the quad headlights and more squared front-end help clean the front-end up, and make the car look wider (dunno if "wider" is better, but I think it made it look more substantial).

    Now, I thought the '73 Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Century/Regal, Cutlass, and Grand Prix all turned out nice. But the '73 LeMans just didn't do it for me as much. While the '76-77 LeMans is my favorite of those "Colonade" years, I think initially, for 1973, the Cutlass and Grand Prix were the best looking...really sharp cars. The 6000SUX was kinda cool, too! :shades:
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Insurance rates. Gas prices. Tickets. Oh, I do remember! There just didn't seem to be a ready solution to rising expenses and economic recession. Then along came the cheap imports and...
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • garv214garv214 Member Posts: 162
    Did you just throw a Robocop reference in there??? :shades:
  • 93gmcdrivermn93gmcdrivermn Member Posts: 24
    Just thought you might like to know the Black and Gold 77' Pontiac used in "Smokey and the Bandit" was a 6.6 liter "Trans-Am" not a 77' LeMans..
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Yeah, but Buford T. Justice's car was a 1977 LeMans. According to the DVD commentary, Pontiac supplied Hal Needham with three Trans Ams and two LeManses for that movie. It must've been a real logistical nightmare to have to take two cars and repaint them, and constantly put them back together, to represent Buford's car, an occasional civilian car (in one scene he was up on jackstands, drove forward, and hit a red one), and police cars from 4 or 5 different states! They also used a bunch of other cars to pass off as police cars, like a few midsized Furys, a good looking '73 Polara that never got wrecked, an airbag-equipped '74 Olds Ninety-Eight (!), a pair of '67 Galaxies, and probably a couple I'm missing.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    edited May 2010
    what would be a decent price for the nicest example in the world of one of those big, Mercury-based, '58 Edsel 4-door hardtops? Reason I'm asking is because my mechanic is fixing one up for a customer...doing a frame-off restoration. I don't know whether it's a Corsair or Citation, because all I saw was its frame sitting there with the engine that said "E-475" on the valve cover.

    Off the top of my head, my guess is maybe $20-25K, for the nicest in the world? Well, my mechanic said that once it's done, this guy will have put something like $130,000 into the car! :surprise:

    If I start getting like that with the DeSoto, will somebody please have me committed? :P I mean, I love the car and everything, but I don't want to be indebted to it for the rest of my life!

    Oh, and as for my DeSoto, it's kind of a sad sight right now. Seats are all pulled out. No gas tank, suspension, etc. Heads are off the engine, and so is the oil pan. And, one question...when did Mopar start outsourcing their Hemi engines to Toyota, because that sucker has an awful lot of sludge in it! :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think $20K would be a home run. Even the price guides that are considered "lunatic money" in their ratings don't go that high for show cars. :surprise:

    Well it's his money after all.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Well it's his money after all.

    Yeah, I guess the important thing is that you do what makes you happy. I'm spending nowhere near that on my DeSoto, but I'll admit there are times that I've felt like a chump for not just going and buying a nice one, for less money than what I'm going to end up throwing into this one.

    But then, it's not like a '57 DeSoto is a dime a dozen these days, either. Heck, this one's asking $95,000! It's an old ad though, and I think it's currently slated to go through the Barrett-Jackson auctions, so I know it'll end up going for more than it's worth. It's a Fireflite, rather than a Firedome like mine, but seriously, unless it's an Adventurer, does it really make that much difference in value?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    If I win a big lottery, I will do a nut and bolt restoration on the fintail. Of course, at that point the money won't matter, so I can be as crazy as I want to be :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    edited May 2010
    Yeah, if I won a big lottery, I'd do all sorts of silly things with the money...within reason, of course, as I'd also take precautions to make sure that it lasts.

    Still, I have trouble wrapping my mind around a blowing $130K on restoring a 4-door '58 Edsel (or DeSoto,for that matter). Especially when, $36K more (plus permit fees and site prep and tearing down the old house) could get me into this!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    If I had that kind of money, I'd also move to Switzerland or Liechtenstein and open the fintail/W126 restoration center (maybe with an American branch if it caught on), so I guess I could use my own car as a write off :shades: And of course, I wouldn't be undertaking a 6 figure job.

    Are you looking to replace your old homestead? I've found some of those planbook builders provide illustrations that look a lot bigger than they seem to look in person.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,177
    The highest bid I could find for ANY Edsel on ebay, including 2 drs and convertibles: $16,600. They'll have to find a one-in-a-billion buyer to recover any sizeable fraction of those costs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's the old "I put X dollars into it, ergo it is worth X dollars" delusion.
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    ....I mean, I love a nice '66 Eldorado more than most, and this has all the cool options (particularly the buckets with headrests), and great 'pedigree', if you care about that sort of thing, but c'mon!:

    link title
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    The car was already sold and the guy was delighted that it was gone. He said it was in great condition and he serviced it religiously but it was a huge money pit. He suggested I give up on looking at Mercedes and think about a Lexus instead.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    When you're older, you'll regret the things you didn't do. Just think, some day far in the future, a 1957 DeSoto will still be here for posterity on account of all you did. I'm sure you'll know when you're in over your head. Let's say you even put $20K into the car. What does $20K get you nowadays except maybe a well-optioned Corolla or a strippo Camry. It certainly won't buy something as awesome as a flashy red two-tone '57 DeSoto.

    As for the dude with the Edsel, I think he can get the nicest Edsel Corsair or Citation in existence for less than $130K, even if he went to Barrett-Jackson to get one and guzzled Glenfiddich all day!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    Are you looking to replace your old homestead? I've found some of those planbook builders provide illustrations that look a lot bigger than they seem to look in person.

    I've been thinking about it. Most of the value of my place is in the land. The house is old, small, needs a lot of work, and is too close to the road. If I was to sell the place, I'm sure whoever bought it would just knock down the house, garage, and other outbuildings, and just subdivide. So I could throw a ton of money into my current house, and it probably wouldn't raise the value of the place one bit. But I figured if I built a new house, a bit further back, then if I sold the place would still get subdivided most likely, but at least there would be a nice new house that could be sold off on, say, a half-acre lot, thrown into the deal.

    Probably not gonna go through with it though, because permitting fees are too cost-prohibitive, IMO. They want something like $15,000 just in water/sewer permits!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I recall seeing that nice white 1989 Cadillac Brougham at Carlisle with only 21K on the odometer. Now, something could happen to my Brougham like, God forbid, a fire or some doddering old knucklehead in a maroon LaCrosse rear-ending it on the interstate outside of Harrisburg. I could still buy a very nice old Brougham to replace it, but it wouldn't be MY car.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot, had I won the lottery, I'd have done a concours-level restoration of my 1988 Buick Park Avenue just because I could!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Trailering a '66 Cadillac from one AACA meet to another for the entry fee of $85,000?

    I'd rather kill myself.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    Well, maybe if the markets pick up or something. I have noticed your old place is kind of near the road...what would happen if the county/state widened that road?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,760
    You have to be careful and buy the right car....some cars are bad apples, and some timeframes have more of those bad apples than others.

    An older SC430 could be alternative.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,117
    I have noticed your old place is kind of near the road...what would happen if the county/state widened that road?

    Actually, it's on the county records that they want a 30 foot right of way on my property to widen the road. That used to bother me...until I found out that it's been on the books since the 1970's, and if it hasn't happened by now, it's probably not going to any time soon. Plus, I went to a county planning meeting a few years back and found out what they actually want is a triangular piece. At the west end of my property, they DO want 30 feet back from the road, but it becomes less and less as you get up closer to the house, eventually going down to zero at the east side of the property.

    There's a sharp S-curve at the end of the street that they want to straighten out, by going into the curve sooner and much more gradually. Right now, my house only sits about 5.5 feet off the property line, and maybe 9-10 feet from the road itself. That right-of-way they want would actually cut to about 3.5 feet at the west corner of my house. But, there are also plans to put in a sidewalk, which would be on my side of the expanded right-of-way. So while I would lose about 4,050 square feet of property (a 30x270 foot triangle), the road itself would actually be further from my house, as I'd now have a strip of grass, the sidewalk, and then another strip of grass between my property and the road.

    Unfortunately, since the road moves further from my house, that means it ends up more in my grandmother's yard, across the street. It would take a pretty big chunk out of her yard, and I estimate it would actually take out the house next door to her.

    I doubt if any of this will happen anytime soon. Lately, the county has been forcing developers to pay all the construction costs of improving the roads. About 12 years ago, our road did get widened to the west of me, and an Episcopalian school went in on my side, and a McMansion orchard on the other side. However, the school and the developer split the costs of widening that road. The only way our end of the street will get widened will be if a developer comes through, buys everybody out, and then tears it all down. And at that point, I really wouldn't care, as I'd be living somewhere else. It would hurt though, to see the place torn down after so many years.

    The very front of my house is just an old enclosed porch, that has been turned into a walk-in closet and an office that is more junk/storage than anything else right now. If I wanted to, I could just take that room off, and that would put about 8 more feet between the front of the house and the street. But then, that front room does provide a nice buffer between the street and the rest of the house.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I am trying to get my wife back in a BMW mindframe. Sure, an SC430 would be reliable, but I kind of see it as a car an old man drives when he is heading out to the country club for a round of golf. I guess that applies to the SL also.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.