Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

The AC in my W126 was pretty good...the much newer C43 and E55 seems weaker, the latter even needing a few small repairs to the system.

Funniest thing, the best AC in my memory was in our old Cutlass Ciera, somehow that thing felt icy to me.

texases

GM a/c was just about the best...could hang meat in there!

tjc78

Anything that had that giant Frididaire compressor was fridgid. My 79 Continental would put ice around the vents on a humid day!

srs_49

You're right about the rubber/plastic parts. Then again, I am fairly tolerant of minor things not working properly and plastic pieces breaking/falling off of a 20 year old car. Even some of the electrical doohickeys, like the information display on the '325 (which hasn't worked for years), I can live without.

Mr_Shiftright

German AC was "okay" for certain conditions, but you sit in traffic in Phoenix, and you are not going to get cool---I'd say, at best, driving at 70 mph in 85 degree heat is about the "wall" for most 80s/early 90s German AC systems, and only if they are tip-top to begin with.

The point isn't that the AC needs to be fixed our of necessity or that the driver's power window needs to work smoothly and quickly, or that various readouts are now blank and need to be refurbished---the point is that when you finally DO try to sell the car, these deficiencies will be noticed and the buyers will hammer you about it.

fintail

85, that's tops 95% of the time around here and in Germany. Works for me. :shades:

I think when an old highline car gets to be a certain age, not much can be expected to work. I still remember when I sold my W126, the buyer was thrilled that the AC was cold.

tjc78

I think the reason working A/C is such a plus is that you never know what the heck is wrong. Every once in a while you get lucky and it has such a small leak that a charge gets you by for awhile. Other times it needs new lines/dryer etc and it gets pricey quickly.

A few years back my mother's 96 Thunderbird cost over a grand to get working again and it wasn't even the compressor.

Mr_Shiftright

The general rule of thumb is that if the compressor was allowed to seize while you were driving it, then you can just about count on a complete and total replacement of every component in the AC---so for an old German luxo-barge, economically inadvisable. The seized compressor throws metal debris into the entire system and you just can't get it out. One little speck of metal left in there will destroy the new compressor. So you'll need compressor, dryer, expansion valve, evaporator, and removal and flushing of condensor, all the AC lines, and all the labor to do that. You could blow $2K easy.

lemmer

Well, that'll play a part in the decision. Stuff like that drives me insane. Other people, not so much.

And for the other conversation, I can no longer live without a/c in the summer (or probably spring and half of fall for that matter).

fintail

I've been lucky and only had leakage issues. Of course, the car was under warranty then. Now, I am not sure how avidly I would chase it.

Mr_Shiftright

The best thing I can advise is to have the car thoroughly gone over by a BWM specialist, and make a list of everything bad they find, and then prioritize the items into those things critical for reliability and safety and those things that are merely "coming up at some future time".

If your critical list alone adds up to more than the car's value, you're on the wrong street.

srs_49

the point is that when you finally DO try to sell the car, these deficiencies will be noticed and the buyers will hammer you about it.

Guess that's true, if your plan is to sell the car eventually.

Me - the last car I sold was 1974 Datsun 260-Z. Every other vehicle since then was driven 'til it was at the end of it's useful life (173,000 mile on a '94 Dodge Caravan, etc), then either "donated" to charity or turned in to a dealer as partial payment on a replacement vehicle.

Except for our 2002 Subaru Outback that we sold to our son when he moved to Rochester, MN. Figure he could make batter use of the AWD than us.

boomchek

If your critical list alone adds up to more than the car's value, you're on the wrong street.

That's a pretty good method. :shades:

fintail

There's an episode of Top Gear where they all went out and bought cheapo E30 cabrios, then had BMW specialists look them over. I think they all needed a minimum of 7 grand in work to make them right - and that's a grand of pounds, not dollars. Maybe not all critical items though.

explorerx4

'Fin, how old are your tires? The rubber gets less flexible as it gets older.

fintail

The modern car has tires that are only about 6 months old. They did make an improvement.

qbrozen

Still don't have working AC in the mr2. Every time at my dad's, who has the equipment, we think we got it licked and it's blowing cold at his house, it fails on my way home. I dontbremember but I think the compressor was a couple hundred buCks and the valve was 15 or 20. Labor? Oh, gotta be 5-6 hours so far.

fintail

Saw kind of a "project car" today - a ca. 1995-2000 Jag XJ. Unknown model, but the updated round light thing. Anyway, it was coming down a hill...I don't know if it downshifted or what, but as it slowed it let out a pretty good plume of blue smoke...we're talking pissed off fintail after sitting in traffic for 10 minutes smoke. I bet that can't be cheap to fix.

Also saw a 96 BMW 750 (V12) for sale in a free car rag...same price as a 97 Civic...that bodes well.

Mr_Shiftright

An old Jaguar or BMW V12 are simply not cars you fix up. You either buy a pristine one and make the occasional human sacrifice, or you don't touch 'em at any price.

The term "white elephant" has an interesting linguistic history that applies quite aptly to this type of car.

british_rover

I would buy one of those 95-97 XJ6 or XJR X300 models if one came into the autogroup. I would roll the dice on one in good shape with some service records. No way I would touch a 12 cylinder.

fintail

Maybe this Jag was a V12 with some kind of valvetrain issue, I remember the older V12s could have problems keeping oil pressure and such. I don't recall when the V12 XJ was dropped, but I know this car was 1995+.

I'd be very afraid of an old V12 BMW, don't think I would risk a pre-03 V12 MB, either.

steine13

Along my way to work, there is a house with a great driveway.
Two cars in it: a >10-year-old XJ, and a '93-97 generation Prizm.
Both look very clean.

The Prizm is always parked behind the Jag.

There is a message there, though I'm not sure I can figure it out.

This sort of thing greatly amuses me as I go by... in 12 degree weather... with studded snow tires on my bicycle. I don't dare take them off until mid-April.

Sigh.
-Mathias

british_rover

97 was the last year for the V12 XJ but I don't think there were very many built. The XJR was a better buy.

oregonboy

"The XJR was a better buy."
Just as water-boarding was the more pleasant torture. :shades:

fintail

V12s are scary pretty much under any badge...but a British one maybe the most.

Those XJRs seem like a bargain, but I bet they can have issues too.

lemko

This is the personification of an old V-12 BMW or a pre '03 V-12 MB and the sucker it's trying to seduce.

Mr_Shiftright

My rule about V12 cars is: "If you can't afford to buy one new, don't buy one used".

british_rover

Oh yeah I know they do but compared to any other high dollar high performance euro car from the 90s to early 2000s they are better.

The engines were solid and the transmission was a GM 4 speed. A 4L80-E I think. Pretty common and durable plus rebuildable for less then a small fortune. They didn't have all the crazy electronic gadgets like the germans did and no air suspension either.

qbrozen

I would buy one of those 95-97 XJ6

So why those years specifically?

I keep threatening that I'm going to own a Jag one of these days just to get it out of my system.

fintail

I'd think a W210 E55 or E39 M5 would be a pretty close call - both are known to be pretty solid with just a few issues, and predate the air suspension and insane gadgetry trend. But the next generation of each jumped up an order of complexity, as it did for the XJ.

fintail

That's a good rule

I see the S/CL/SL65 series from several years ago are coming down in price, but the complexity of the cars is terrifying.

fintail

Really, she's any secondhand higher end Euro. You've gotta pay to play :shades:

oldbearcat

Be careful. It took 3 Jaguars before I got them out of my system. My last one - an 06 S-Type VDP - was great - until it was down for 6 weeks waiting on parts to show up at the dealership. It was still in the dealer's shop when wife and I decided to trade it off for another brand that the dealer handled.

Regards:
Oldbearcat

gsemike

What about a 5 year old E class with 60kish on it? What could I expect?

How would this compare to buying a new Altima?

bumpy

V12s are scary pretty much under any badge

I wouldn't mind this one...


but that and a Toyota Century are the only V12s I'd give the time of day to.

gsemike

This kid's Dad must be a buzzkill

Mr_Shiftright

The best approach would be to a) have the car thoroughly gone over by a qualified shop and b) play with every knob. switch and dial yourself, drive it for at least 1/2 hour, do a CARFAX. Miles are good (average)--I don't know about the price, haven't checked.

I know it seems like being overly cautious but you need to buy this type of car when it's at the top of its game, because any major repair is going to beat you senseless.

The transmission, for instance, retails at about $8000.

hpmctorque

Well, after all the Civic was one year newer.

fintail

And an EX, we know how cool that is.

So it cost maybe 15K new...where the big mean German was maybe 100K. Now both have a 4K asking price. Depreciation, aint it grand.

fintail

Expect pricey maintenance, but probably no huge issues if it has been maintained. Price seems average - lots of these coming off lease and finance lately, so they aren't exactly rare. The facelift (07+) models look better to me.

fintail

I bet that wouldn't be fun to care for in everyday commuting use.

I wonder why Toyota has never made a range topping Lexus with a V12...maybe another reason the brand doesn't do the best job at competing with the Germans in most of the world.

Mr_Shiftright

Mercedes has a gold-plated reputation in much of the world (less so in the USA).

Toyota is rarely on the cutting edge of innovation, Prius excepted.

bumpy

I dunno; maybe Toyota wants to preserve the exclusivity of the V12? When the LS600h first came out, there was some talk of how the V8+HSD was supposed to provide "V12-equivalent" performance. Not sure if I believe that.

When I went out this morning, I did spot a super-rare Ford Focus ZX3 "V12 Limited Edition", according to the badges on the rear hatch. :P

fintail

Maybe a little too exclusive though, does that car exist at all outside of Japan?

I'd say a MB or BMW V12 could likely easily walk all over the LS600.

There's a CLK430 "AMG" in my parking garage right now :shades:

fintail

And Toyota is working only very very slowly to change any of that image

Mr_Shiftright

Oh easily. My friend's 1998 BMW V-12 is much faster than his new-ish, top o' the line Lexus. Unfortunately, his 1998 BMW V-12 is worth between nothing and paltry right now.

explorerx4

Aston Martin V12.

The Vanquish's V12 engine shares some components and design elements with the 3.0 L Duratec 30 V6. It even shares the same bore and stroke dimensions. For this reason, many people incorrectly dismiss the Aston Martin V12 as merely "two Duratecs linked together." It is correct that the AM V12 shares components with the 'Duratec' engine design.

lemmer

Ford Galaxie. A 352 big block?

fintail

I'd think in 65, a 390 would be the "big block" (other than the unicorn-like 427).

texases

They both were based on the FE 'big block', so I guess you could call the 352 a 'big block'. Here's more than you'd want to know about the FE.