Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

stickguy

watching the latest issue of wheeler dealers on DVR, and they are doing up a gen 1 MRII.

I always liked these. and now I want one! of course, the odds of finding one without rust and issues for a reasonable price is probably nil.

lemko

Yeah, here's a family who did just that!

fintail

I'd run for my life. Kind of clapped out looking (I too think it is sitting odd) 20 year old high strung BMW with no apparent history, in Brooklyn. No thanks. What's a mint one worth? Less than double that, I bet. Save up and buy one with no needs. Like with an old MB, the cheapest is also likely the most expensive.

Mr_Shiftright

I would say that rather than buy that M5 one should just hurl himself on a stack of unsheathed bayonets and basically accomplish the same painful thing, but so much faster .

qbrozen

I searched autotrader for all M sedans under $10k within 100 miles. That was the only one.

Now, according to Galves, a '97 M3 sedan with ~100k is worth all of $5k as a trade. So one SHOULD be able to buy one of those in nice shape for under $8k. Good luck finding one, though.

I'd rather have a 5, but there were so few years where it was sold here. If its not an old one like I posted above, its a 2000 and up, which of course gets out of that "spare car" pricerange.

I think I may be better served by a 540i sport.

fintail

Yeah, that M5 is very uncommon...but condition is everything. It's 20 years old, high performance, and German. Open door to financial ruin. Nice ones will be enthusiast owned, and they won't let it go for Galves money.

Speaking of the E39 M5, I saw a blue one today. I also saw an E39 wagon/touring badged as M5 and with M5 wheels, but of course we never got those.

fintail

It'd have to be a lot cheaper to be defendable. It just doesn't look right, and I suspect many people have lost their mind after buying cars in Brooklyn :shades:

lemko

Ferrari Wrecked by Feds

Mr_Shiftright

I actually appraised one of those a few years back. The owner's nephew blew up the engine, but that was easily repaired for about $60,000. They're pretty much race cars with license plates.

texases

Looks like a neat movie coming out on flatheads. Hotrods with flatheads make sense to me. Ones with 2011 crate engines, not so much...

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, flathead engine, plain steel wheels, different tire sizes (never radials!) and all the other classic stuff they do..."carson top" (isn't that what they call them?), mail slot backlight, and one of those nifty period Italian superchargers.

I sure hope they don't use that music for a backdrop on the film.

hpmctorque

Yeah, they should use period music.

qbrozen

Wow. What a horribly written piece of drivel. Much more worthy of a low-level blog than a "newspaper."

I know, not the point of posting the story, but I just felt the need to comment.

Mr_Shiftright

Well as Hollywood has taught us, to broaden one's audience, one must write drivel, unless you are Mozart or the Beatles, which most people aren't.

My favorite New Yorker cartoon:

Two dogs talking to each other on the sidewalk:

"I used to have a blog, but I gave it up for incessant barking"

qbrozen

I think I'm overdue for admonishment from shifty...

Very pretty. no miles listed.

ooohhh... Blue.

steine13

Heck we don't need Shifty to tell you you're insane for even looking.

But if you must, I vote for the 2nd one.... it's blue, it's pretty, it's only $4k, what could possibly go wrong?

Didja notice the shift knob is missing? What kind of an idiot would try and sell an old luxo car that way?

Anyway, not to worry. You can get a shift knob off ebay, and by the time it arrives, you'll probably be thinking about other things, like a bus pass.

Oh, I know: Buy the pair and get a discount, since it's the same seller! Then you won't NEED the bus pass.
Most days.

As my dad likes to say, you're only young once!

Cheers -Mathias

Mr_Shiftright

Looks like the same person is selling both cars.

I have no reason to admonish you--these are Ford-Jaguars and they are cheap, so what's not to like?

Do be aware, however, of the possible catastrophic collapse of the plastic timing chain guides at around 70K, leading (usually) to engine destruction.

I would either not buy an XK that had not had this corrected, or I would deduct what it would cost to have it done immediately, as in yesterday.

Like death, it often comes without warning.

Other than that, I'm my usual optimistic self about Jaguars.

qbrozen

This just might have fixed me.

Problem is you wouldn't really know if it was done, right? Unless calling a Jag dealer could give you that info.

qbrozen

thought you might be interested.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's Your Baby, Right Here!

stickguy

piece of cake. Can knock it off after dinner.

I do like the blue one, but I have heard (from you?) about issues with that dealer. And I bet the car has at least 150K on it. but love the colors.

heck, get a few low miles years out of it, and if the chain goes, so what!

Speaking of timing belt/chain changes, the gold standard of expensive I thought was always Ferrari (home of the 10K tuneup!), and they are supposed to be done every 5 years/30K. Seems to scare lots of people away.

Well, the latest issue of road and Track came the other day, and the Peter egan column was about his latest object of interest, a Ferrari. After getting the usual scare stories, he talked to a couple of experts that said it was not that big of a deal, for the transverse engine ones at least (308/328). Not that hard to get at them, and relatively straight forward. so pretty much like doing any other car.

Mr_Shiftright

It's the "engine out" Ferraris that you have to worry about, not the 308s. But nonetheless, Peter Egan, keep in mind that even the drive belts on the car (which of course you would replace at the same time) are $100 bucks a pop, and no, you can't use any other belt but a Ferrari one. And then, how do you know the car doesn't need a valve adjustment at this time, and cam seals. Just "doing the belt" without taking off the cam covers to check the cam timing is *risky*. And god forbid once the timing belt is off that someone bumps the starter motor.

Figure around $3000 to have the job done right.

At least it wasn't a 348. That baby has a flywheel with 30 parts in it.

If you know a lot of people in the biz, life is so much easier. I could never have owned half the cars I did without relying on the kindness of strangers. You think I'd bring a Porsche 928 to the DEALER??!! :surprise:

qbrozen

That is pretty sweet. Love the blackout look. (much like the marauder)

But new paint on an '04 with 80k? hmmmm....

qbrozen

yup. That same dealer. I know. I haven't actually been to him, so who knows. He posts ALOT on craigs.

isellhondas

I've mentioned in the past that I know a guy who has his 1953 Mercury Convertable undergoing a total nut and bolt frame off restoration.

Well, I ran into him the other night and he said it's going to be another year and a half before it's done. The shop doing the work bounces back and forth between several projects.

Every month my buddy gets a bill that he pays. Some months are much worse than others.

At this point, none of the mechanicals have been touched and his restoration charges are currently 88,000! This doesn't include what he paid for the car!

Anyone else think it's wiser to buy one already done?

texases

I can't be the only one that nearly spit my coffee at the screen on that one - $88,000 :surprise:

And the engine and tranny have yet to be touched :surprise: :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

Well, if the car turns out to be a 100 point, spectacular, best in the world, never seen one as good '53 Mercury convertible, he might not get hurt too badly, maybe $25K in the hole. But it would have to be an absolutely perfect car, capable of geniune shock and awe, even amongst the jaded. Is the restorer THAT good?

lemko

The next project will be the trailer to go with that '53 Merc!

tjc78

When you get a sec if you could check out this link.

I think the price is waayyyyyy out of line for something like this but I like it and may be worth a look. My offer would probably be half of what he is asking which would most likely be an insult but IMO still on the high end.

It needs a tailpipe and the rims that are on the car aren't very nice.

87 Vic Coupe

Mr_Shiftright

Offering him half would be quite generous. This looks like a #3+ car, so around $1700--$2000 is all the money in the world here. You aren't "insulting" him. He needs to get his head straight, not you, in this case. You have *evidence* on your side.

I did an archive search of 77 completed sales of '87 Vics on eBay and the "good" price came out averaging $1800. Of course that includes wagons and 4-doors, so let's bump it up 10% for the coupes.

IF all the defects on his car were fixed, including tailpipe, mirrors, wheels, vents, rough idle, broken stereo system, blah blah, + a full detailing, THEN maybe he could get $3200 out of it.

He can't have it both ways---too lazy or broke to bring it up in value but wanting that value anyway.

tjc78

Thanks! This is what I was thinking. On that site (where a two door vic is the holy grail), no one even appeared to show much interest. The price must have a lot to do with it.

I figure a minimum of a grand would be needed to bring it up to snuff. A used set of turbines, a true dual exhaust, and tune up/service.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly so---this is why $2200 is the max you should offer, and IMO, is the precise market value---how it is, where it is.

andre1969

On that site (where a two door vic is the holy grail), no one even appeared to show much interest. The price must have a lot to do with it.

They may be the holy grail among enthusiasts, but for the most part, the general public ignored the 2-door. Personally, I always thought the 2-door Panthers were just too upright and boxy, more like a 2-door sedan than a 2-door coupe. I wonder if the 2-door and 4-door used the same windshield, A-pillars, roof, and rear window?

I think the downsized GM big cars handled their coupe versions better, although in 1980, when they all went to the formal C-pillar and upright rear window, I thought the results were mixed. I think it worked well on the Electra/98 and the Cadillacs, but on the smaller B-body, the coupes lost some of their charm, IMO.

Still, that black Crown Vic 2-door does look nice, with the red interior. I actually don't mind those rednecky wheels, but agree, a set of nice turbines would be alot better!

tjc78

I wonder if the 2-door and 4-door used the same windshield, A-pillars, roof, and rear window?

As far as I know, yes they did. The front sheetmetal is also interchangable.

andre1969

In the long run, that was probably a good move from a cost standpoint, considering the coupes were fairly low-volume. GM used a different, more slicked-back windshield on their coupes versus sedans, but when you figure they used it across the Impala, Caprice, Catalina, Bonneville, Delta 88, LeSabre, Electra, Ninety-Eight, Coupe DeVille, and Fleetwood coupe, they got their money's worth out of it!

oldfarmer50

I've never restored a classic car so bear with me here.

A friend of my son's recently bought a 1973 AMC Javelin 304 V-8, auto for $250. According to him it is in running condition and except for faded paint looks to be in pretty good shape (minimal rust).

What would you reccommend he do with this car to make maximum profit? He normally takes cars like this to the crusher for a few hundred bucks profit but that seems like such a shame seeing how rare these cars are.

Just a quick review of Craigslist and E-bay shows me that untouched he could get $2000-3000 for it. What would be the next thing he should look at to increase it's value, paint job?

I'm really out of my element here so any suggestions would be appreciated.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/photo- s/154500/154880.1973.AMC.Javelin.2-Door.Hardtop.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.choosey- ouritem.com/classics/files/154500/154880.html&h=318&w=424&sz=42&tbnid=IoGFK477-j- rSaM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=126&prev=/search%3Fq%3D1973%2Bamc%2Bjavelin%26tbm%3Disch%26tb- o%3Du&zoom=1&q=1973+amc+javelin&hl=en&usg=__SbW7rwxKzlDNYbbLiPZBfxJkUWo=&sa=X&ei- =qJ2wTZbgO4z2gAflyYj0Cw&sqi=2&ved=0CB0Q9QEwAA

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't spend more than a few hundred dollars just cleaning it up. DO NOT invest any money in this car, you'll just eat up the profit that now resides in it. It's not really a desirable year or engine but if it runs he made a good buy there.

explorerx4

how about this one?
1983 CV Coupe

xwesx

I would at least change out all the fluids in it, but then again maybe that is just asking to discover problems a conscientious person like me would be overly tempted to fix.... :surprise:

tjc78

how about this one?

Very similar to the one I posted. Looks decent at a much more down to earth price. If/when I take the plunge for one of these old boats the 86+ are really better because that was year they changed to the multiport fuel injection. Ford's old CFI system was quirky.

fintail

An 86-87 coupe would be pretty rare, wouldn't it? I can't imagine something like that selling in any numbers that late.

tjc78

I think you are right they are the hardest to find, but, they turn up from time to time. Right in my town a guy had a sweet 87 Grand Marq Coupe (white/blue) with something like 50K on it for $2500. It was sold already when I emailed him. Truth be told I need another car like I need a hole in the head, but I'm always looking. I should just sell my S10 that gets about 50 miles a month and buy a toy.

fintail

The FI would certainly be the way to go. At least the cars that catch your eye aren't very expensive.

One reason I am actually glad I have only one garage spot - keeps me from bringing things home :shades: One old beast is enough.

tjc78

No not expensive at all. Not a huge market w/ $4.00 gas for 70s/80s land yachts.

The main reason I don't have something older right now is that I do not have a gargage. My GF's mother lives up the street and has a beautiful detached garage, however it is loaded with stuff. If I do buy an old beast I'll have to go in there, build shelving and organize the place.

lemmer

That beast is probably worth $1000 in scrap metal. Why would anyone sell a car for $250?

fintail

Clear out the garage, have a hoarder dispersal yard sale, and use the money to put towards a car

There are some 80s yachts I like too, they are just a little different (and rarer, more expensive, and harder to maintain)

:shades:

Mr_Shiftright

Looks to be a lot better than the other CV, although I suspect this one is not quite ready for everyday use, having been driven so little in recent years. My "classic car test" is to take the car out and run it pretty hard (without abusing it), doing the 1-5-50 test.

You drive it for one mile, stop, get out and see what's leaking or making noise or falling off.....if NO, then you drive 5 HARD (but not abusive) miles and get out and check everything again. Then you get back in and drive 50 miles in a fashion that you would drive it had you owned it, then get out, look it all over, make notes, play with all the knobs and switches, etc.

Most screwed up old cars will not pass this test, and if they don't, then I realize I have a "project" on my hands, not a car that's ready to roll with 1-2 days fussing.

tjc78

NO, then you drive 5 HARD (but not abusive) miles and get out and check everything again

Heck, here in Jersey that would be the equivalent of a trip to the grocery store. :P

oldfarmer50

"...That beast is probably worth $1000 in scrap metal. Why would anyone sell a car for $250?..."

More like $300 scrap value for the metal. Remember, the Javelin was the size of a Mustang, not a huge car by the standards of the day.

My son's friend runs a little scrapping business and went thinking he would find a pile of rust sitting in someone's field. He walked right past the car and asked the owner "Where is the junk car?" He said he almost fell over when he saw what good shape the Javelin was in. He mentioned that the owner was "this rich old guy" who's wife was bugging him to get rid of some of his old cars.

The wife must have been REALLY bugging him to make that deal.

Who knows, once he starts to give the car a good going over he may find something seriously wrong that was the reason he got it so cheap. I can't imagine him losing money on it though.

I just have a serious case of nostalgia with it because my older brother had a 73 Javelin stick which I liked to drive every chance I got. I supose I could see myself tooling around in this one as well.

oldfarmer50

"...you get back in and drive 50 miles..."

I can't imagine anyone letting you tool around in their car for that length of time. How do you convince them to let you do it?