Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Well I try to respectfully explore the owner's comfort zone. If he wont' let me drive it a decent distance, I just either a) walk away or b) offer him what a non-running car is worth. Fair is fair. If he won't demonstrate that the car can go 25 trouble-free miles, but insists that it will, then I'm outta there. I'm going to spend thousands of dollars only to learn that I have a slipping transmission in 4 th gear or a bad differential or a severe overheat situation? I don't think so :mad:

I also never pester owners when I'm not entirely serious about purchasing the car. If I'm only curious or mildly interested, a 5 mile drive will either determine my desire to press the owner for a 25-50 mile trip or to abandon the hunt. I might even offer him a deposit, (write him a check) contingent upon the car passing my inspection.

You have to let the owner know you are serious and not some time-wasting tire-kickin' fool. "do onto others as...blah blah"

I bring cash when I really want a car (unless I don't like the neighborhood).

isellhondas

So, I guess you wouldn't carry a bundle of cash into Hunter's Point?

omarman

I just have a serious case of nostalgia with it because my older brother had a 73 Javelin stick which I liked to drive every chance I got.

I've always liked the Javelin/AMX cars but not much else in the AMC line if it wasn't a Jeep. In '73 my sister's boyfriend bought a new Hornet X with the 360/automatic. It was a fast, strong running car for the time and was finished in a medium blue like the Javelin pic below. Anyway, even though it was a good performer I didn't really like it much. A Hornet just doesn't have that Mark Donohue AMX cachet. A year later James Bond was driving a Hornet but that didn't seem to boost the image of either franchise.

oldfarmer50

"...medium blue like the Javelin pic below..."

LOL That looks exactly like my brother's Javelin--same color.

Unfortunately, my brother liked to hang out in rough neighborhoods and one night someone stole it, trashed it and drove it into the Hudson river.

qbrozen

this is right around the corner from me.

Wasn't this series XJR the one British Rover endorses? Awfully tempting. I think I'll have to start beggin the wife.

omarman

The seller's ad calls it a turbo engine but I think the XJR-6 was supercharged and the VIN decodes as 4.0L 6 Cyl Supercharged. Anyway the paint looks shiny and it still has the leaper!

I found another link to the car with more pics showing some interior wear, mostly driver seat and steering wheel. No engine pics at all though.

With the lowered price it's probably due for 100k maintenance. Here's a link to a photo album showing how to do it yourself and it begins with replacing the lower radiator hose:

"This is the lower radiator hose on the X300 XJR-6, the 'Octopus Hose.' It has many connections, be sure you get the right one for your car. As you'll see, replacement is a $1000 job at the dealer!"

qbrozen

yes, that's the supercharged one.

In any case, wife let me go check it out this evening. I believe this is the 3rd time now that I've been enticed to visit that dealer and every time I was disappointed. His photographer is a real artist, IMHO. This thing was in HORRIBLE shape. What looks to be shiny paint is nothing but makeup. I can't even begin to describe what lie underneath it. The bumps, cracks, and thin spots were easily visible within 5 feet of the car. And the interior is WAY worse than appears in those pics. A real fright pig. I hope I've learned my lesson now about that particular dealer.

isellhondas

A supercharged Jaguar! You have no idea what that car will do to you!

Mr_Shiftright

When I check out cars for people who are out of state, I don't even take full-car pictures. Rather, I take very high res photos of small details and sort of string them together into logical groups (interior shots, exterior trim, engine bay). This allows the buyer to blow up the photos on their computer and really zero into the details. In this way they get to judge, and rate in their own minds, the condition level of each "group" and by the time they're done, they've added up all the various "groups" to form a full impression of the entire car.

You can do all sorts of tricks with a camera to deceive the buyer---one, of course, is distance (at a certain distance for instance, all scratches and dings to exterior trim pieces just drop out), or the angle (you can cut off cracks in the dash, or missing seat trim parts), or avoidance, such as no pictures of the chassis underneath, in order to hide a tarted-up old car quickly re-sprayed in "re-sale red".

gsemike

Unusual for a dealer car

I'm sure some of you guys can put this to good use

How long can this go for?

Clean but not worth fixing for that money

If this does it for you, I guess this is good

1999 doesn't feel that long ago but how dated does this look?

Longest 63k I've ever seen

Nicest one of these around

htRuns and drives like a new car Can't have the attitude if you're selling that

Beautiful but still not worth close to this

Sometimes even Porsches die

I had the Matchbox car but have no idea what this is worth

This has been listed for at least a year and he still hasn't put a 4 barrel on it The 68s/9s look so much better IMO

Scare your neighbors

Mr_Shiftright

1980 Corvette? Who wants an 1980 Corvette at any price? 190HP and an 85 MPH speedometer. Wow. Asking price is not sober. Figure he'd be lucky to get $19K out of it, maybe $20K to someone who has a '79 and and '81 and wants to fill in.

Porsche 914---actually a LOT of those died, and continue to die.

Bricklin? clean driver, maybe $7500. Drop-dead show car, maybe $15K

fintail

That's one of the higher mileage W210s I've ever seen. Being a NE car, I would look for chassis rust.

fintail

Be the only one at any MB show anywhere

Mr_Shiftright

The price is totally goo-goo, and quite frankly, it's not very attractive either. Some cars really shouldn't be bastardized, and the 6.3 is one of them.

garv214

Too bad gas is $4.50/gallon, seems like a nice car for the price of a 10 year old civic...

Your Fathers Oldsmobile

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but it needs an engine rebuild and that's not going to be cheap. I'm thinking that "as is", it is already more than fully priced at the bid existing. I'd offer $3000 for it. This is not the same as dumping a crate engine into a Chevelle.

Mr_Shiftright

MMMMMMM........

Man like.

Man want this car.

MMMMMMM.......
TIN WAGON

However, Man primitive but not stupid! Seats bad. Price bad.

xwesx

Interesting find. What's with the discolored spot on the lower front corner of the passenger door? Seems like an odd blemish for a "rust-free" vehicle. The lack of photos on the driver side exterior is odd as well.

gsemike

Doesn't need an engine

texases

"Similar car was just sold at RM's Hershey auction for $45,100

PRICED TO SELL AT ONLY $41,500 (Or Best Offer)

GREAT INVESTMENT "

"ONLY"?
"GREAT INVESTMENT"??
Stop it, you're killin' me!!!

michaellno

I guess what I find interesting is that the owner is advertising on CL!

I would think that if you want to get 40 large for a classic, you'd advertise somewhere where the right crowd might respond.

Mr_Shiftright

Seller did fail to mention that the Hershey car's restoration receipts were over $50,000. So let's see----Spend $52K + cost of the project, sell for $41.5K --- hey, that's pretty good for a classic car!! :P

jlflemmons

That has to be the lowest optioned Toronado I have ever seen. No power windows, seats, or A/C?

oldfarmer50

Recently I asked for an opinion on a 1973 Javelin aquired by my son's friend. He now has it posted on Craigslist as-is for $3000. I also noticed another Javelin for sale locally for $2000.

Which would you guys buy if you had to buy one?

http://albany.craigslist.org/search/cta?query=javelin&srchType=T&minAsk=&maxAsk=-

The friend's car turns over but doesn't run.

oldfarmer50

gsemike

"Doesn't run, but probably wouldn't take too much to get it running. "

That always makes me think 'then get it running doofus' They're both Javelins but they're really apples and oranges with the other being an AMX. I'd think that the ceiling on a 304 Javelin would be low teens and the ceiling on an AMX would be low 20s

omarman

So we have to pick one, either the 304 Javelin at $3k or the 360 AMX for $2k? Neither car is running or drivable as is/where is. From the pics and description the 304 Javelin looks restorable maybe #5 condition and the 360 AMX looks like a #6 parts car. If forced to buy one, I guess I'll take the cheaper one and try to part out, sell bits and pieces, donate and then scrap what's left to offset the $2000 expense. But if I wanted a Javelin to drive, I think I'd skip both of these CL cars and buy a driver to begin with...

There's a local car dealer from Powell who recently sold this '73 Javelin AMX for a bit over $4k. It's a rough #4 driver from the pics/description. But it was running+driving. Dealer was originally asking $7500, then put it up for bids on ebay no reserve, and got out of it at $4,300 -- a lot less! In other words, the market spoke. So what is a non-running faded '73 Javelin really worth on the market? Tidy things up, advertise on ebay with beaucoup pics and VIN number, then see what the market offers. It's probably not going to be $3,000.

oldfarmer50

"...then get it running doofus..."

Yeah, that's what I thought. The friend says it will start with a shot of fluid but I guess he doesn't want to take the trouble to drain the fuel tank and everything else to make it run. A mistake in my opinion.

There's nothing that would make me want to dive into a project car more than hearing it run.

As to values, Shifty mentioned that a 304/auto was not as sexy as a 360 AMX but that AMX had rust to the extent that the seller was providing sheet metal panels. That kind of rust would scare me. The green 304 is in very good shape rust-wise. Just a tiny bit on the edges of the wheel wells.

When I think how early 70s cars rusted on me after 10 years or so, to have a 38 yo car in that shape is amazing.

Mr_Shiftright

The 360, no contest, if you are asking "which car should be restored"? The other car is simply not worth restoring, and probably the 360 is not really worth restoring either---however, the 360 is actually rare with the Cardin, the Go-Package and the 4 speed, so it has desirable attributes.

The 360 when fixed up would easily be worth *double* the other car.

The smartest move would be to buy both of them, and cut up the 304 to fix up the 360.

on the other hand, if the price were low enough, it might be a nice project for a kid to buy the 304 for $1500 bucks and get it running--but not restore it.

Both these cars are the way they are because of what they are.

oregonboy

Is it just me or is the first generation Javelin/AMX more desirable than the later ones? (Based solely on the on the impressions of a young kid when they were new.)

Mr_Shiftright

No, it's not just you---the entire world seems to know that 1971 was the last serious year for American muscle and it's all downhill from there.

After 1971, we enter the Dark Time, and receive only a scant and partial consolation from the mid 70s "luxo-personal-coupes" such as Monte Carlo, Cordoba and Elite, which substituted lots of up-scale gadgets and Corinthian leather for power, and some further partial consolation from the 80s GN and GNX and the Corvette C4.

You do not see a lot of late 60s muscle or pony cars going begging for $2,000 or $3,000. There is a reason for this.

fintail

Beautiful day here, I had the beast out. Visited a local park, parked by a late SL55 AMG, rare color, full option load...and I am pretty sure my car got more attention:



My ego was boosted by the car turning heads and even getting a compliment, and then the car reminded me of its age and unrestored status. I was setting the parking brake as I needed it to idle in gear to work on the idle irregularity it has developed. The second time I set the brake - BANG - something in the brake assembly broke, and the handle went limp. The car has an old fashioned umbrella style handle under the dash. Luckily the brake didn't engage, so the car can be driven fine, but there's now a cable dangling under the car. One more thing for the list...

But I got it to idle nicely...I think I set it just a notch too high, but it's now very smooth at in-gear idle.

oldfarmer50

"...I had the beast out..."

So THAT'S the fintail! All these years of reading your posts and I thought the fintail was something like a Caddy or a Plymouth. Nice car.

fintail

Thanks

Yep, it's a nickname for the only MB with tailfins. My car is very photogenic and looks and performs decently enough for an unrestored car. It just has a hiccup now and then.

fintail

Anyone up for attempted suicide?

Mr_Shiftright

Well I'd do it if I still worked for Mercedes and still had my office, which was 50 yards from the Benz Technical Training School. I could just push it over there.

lemko

Attempted suicide? It's clearly a "successful" suicide to whatever bidder is reckless and self-destructive enough to take on a project like this! There are far less painful ways of killing oneself - like running in front of a speeding freight train!

fintail

You might only have a couple bankruptcies if you do it Shifty's way. Amusing to see how much harder they fall when they are so big.

The transmission notes gave me a laugh too.

gsemike

He has 20 grand into that?

I've seen worse

Nice car, crazy price
Fun gas saver

au1994

RE: Nova...it is clearly that "holly" carb that makes it so 'spensive!

tjc78

The Crown "Victory" if in decent shape would be a good buy at 925.00. The Mustang is a crazy price. What is that really worth? $7000 max?

Mr_Shiftright

Well perhaps the seller of the Nova means he has $20,000 "in" the car---hidden somewhere for us to find. :P

qbrozen

ah yes. I'm sure the 5-digit odometer in that Crown Vic"tory" has only clicked 79k times.

gsemike

If it's orignally owned by an old timer, maybe 79k is possible. It doesn't look like a 179k car

Mr_Shiftright

re: low mileage claims---if there's no proof, don't pay for it.

andre1969

Yeah, the pictures aren't really detailed enough to see any wear and tear on that Crown Vic. The only thing that really jumps out at me is the peeling paint. But, any car painted in the United States in that era was prone to doing the same thing. In fact, that's one way you can always spot the Japanese Acords from the US-built ones...the peeling paint!

Mr_Shiftright

Well no matter--low miles don't make a car like that worth anything more---it might even be considered a detriment if it were true.

tjc78

My 89 Town Car that I had about 7/8 years ago only had a documented 66K on it. I still had to fix quite a few things just because of age not miles.

gsemike

That Crown Vic doesn't have much of a low mileage premium built in at $925, maybe a couple of hundred bucks. At least around here, the floor for a presentable and inspection worthy car is a grand.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly---you reach a point where the local marketplace tells you to not even bother with the price guides---a decent-looking, good- running "turn key" car is worth X dollars, bottom line. Where I live, that would be about $1500--$2000, no matter what it is. Of course, you may deduct for bashed in doors, bad paint, missing parts, broken glass, torn up interior, etc.