Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

hpmctorque

I agree with you that most citizens expect to see their leaders chauffered in prestigious cars. My message was intended to be tongue in cheek.

texases

"My message was intended to be tongue in cheek. "

I figured that...'egalitarian' 'Soviet leaders'

Best joke I've heard in a LOOOONG time!

omarman

Before moving to Frederick for a time in the 90s, my wife and I used to stay at the Cozy in Thurmont and we liked the Nixon Room up on the 2nd floor. Every visit there reminded me of an old Time article regarding Richard Nixon and Leonid Brezhnev at nearby Camp David:

Brezhnev was a notoriously bad driver; yet at one time his stable included a Rolls-Royce, a Citroën-Maserati and a Mercedes-Benz 450 SLC. And Nixon remembers giving a Lincoln Continental to Brezhnev at Camp David. Brezhnev's eyes shone when he saw the car. Without warning, he waved Nixon into the front seat, took the wheel and roared off as Secret Service men looked on aghast. He and Nixon hurtled down a narrow, twisting Catoctin Mountain road at high speed, ran a STOP sign at the bottom of the hill and careened out onto a highway, Brezhnev looking neither right nor left. "That," said a shaken Nixon afterward, "was something." :surprise:

fintail

Is that the actual Kennedy car?

fintail

Horrible things, yet like the Trabbie, they have a little cult around them these days.

Speaking of commies, even Lenin had a Rolls. These guys weren't good at practicing what they preached. The more things change...

omarman

I remember seeing a pic of your red LeMans and it looked good -- shiny paint and trim. It's true that the cost of a quality paint job alone can represent the tipping point in collecting some old cars now. Well not including the rare, high option muscle cars which can still attract sobering bids even when they need everything!

Mechanical issues (like carb problems, smog controls, transmission, etc) seemed like "bigger" issues at the time rather than cosmetics. But a crate engine is a bargain now compared to the labor-intensive costs for body/paint expenses today.

One car I always liked from that era was the '77 Pontiac Can Am. I think it was only made 1 year but you could get the good-guy T/A 6.6 engine and it must have been a more comfy car to sit in than a '77 F-body. Still, it would cost as much to make a 70s Can Am "pretty" as it would a classic GTO with similar cosmetic needs. But the GTO would probably get the serious money at auction.

jwilliams2

The MB people said it was. I took the picture at the Classic Center in Fellbach in the storage area across the alley. Tons of interesting cars there, some every bit as interesting as the ones at the museum. Of course, the ones I liked the best were in Affalterbach. :shades:

Here is another view...

hpmctorque

Interesting story.

I know Nixon gave Brezhnev a Cadillac Eldorado. Didn't know about the Continental. Actually, I believe GM donated the Eldorado, but Nixon presented it to the Soviet leader. I don't think that gift bought us much, and I can't think of any corresponding generosity by a Soviet leader.

The last I read, Brezhnev's Eldorado is in a Moscow museum.

omarman

After Nixon presented the sable black Eldorado to Brezhnev at the '72 Moscow summit the soviets shipped a Volga 70 hydrofoil speedboat to the president later that year. It's now an exhibit in a Missouri museum. As for whatever influence the Cadillac may have had with the USSR signing the SALT treaty, Dick Gregory was famously quoted in the papers saying that he thought "only (blacks) would do anything for a Cadillac." He also wondered what the Russians might do if GM recalled it! Funny stuff at the time but 40 years later, I cleaned up the quote just hoping that it won't violate TOS on a message board.

By the way, the TV movie based on the Woodward and Bernstein book, "The Final Days" included a pretty funny reenactment of the Lincoln Continental test drive with Nixon and Brezhnev at Camp David in '73.

By 1974, the Chevy Summit in Moscow found president Nixon presenting Brezhnev with a Chevrolet Monte Carlo. Seems that the Soviet premier had let it be known that he'd like to have that car because it was named "Car of the Year" by Motor Trend magazine the year before. He didn't ask for the 1974 winner: Ford Mustang II :lemon:

Mr_Shiftright

Actually Nixon's unfortunate remark has a historical precedent, according to Peter Drucker (see HERE)....GM forbade dealers from selling Cadillacs to black people in the 1930s, so in order to own one, a black person had to find a white person to "front" for them in order to buy the car. Nixon was probably unconsciously picking up on this "forbidden fruit" aspect, and not in a sympathetic way, I'm sure. Of course, the same denial could be applied to big houses in white neighborhoods, joining exclusive country clubs, etc. I read about this is Drucker's book "Adventures of a Bystander", where he talks quite a bit about his consulting work with GM.

fintail

Cool, I've never been to that place, but I have been to the normal museum, toured AMG, and stopped by HWA. Just thinking about it makes me want to go back...must exercise fiscal restraint... :shades:

omarman

There may be a misunderstanding regarding my post -- and that does happen on any message board. That's a Dick Gregory quote in my post ( "...do anything for a Cadillac") not Richard Nixon. Gregory is a black comedian/activist who actually ran for president in '68. He was a frequent critic of Nixon and he even wound up on the enemies list or whatever it was called.

Mr. Gregory's published remarks alluded to the "forbidden fruit" aspect of a Cadillac in both a domestic racial context and the cultural divide between America and the former USSR at that time. I was barely 13 y/o when the SALT talks began and for all the news and commentary it generated, Dick Gregory's humor was something even a kid could understand and laugh about. Was Gregory's remark "unfortunate?" Well it was a different world then but even today it sounds witty and thoughtful to me. Definitely not PC for today's newspapers, I agree.

But even in the 70s, long after the prewar Cadillac luster had faded, that car still represented something intangible but very desirable to many people. Not even the leader of the glorious people's republic could resist. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

Okay, very interesting. We should always look at history, even automobile history, in *context* of the times. It makes no sense to project our modern views or attitudes on people who made decisions decades ago under different circumstances.

We may look at some cars or car options from the 70s and cringe but they were hot stuff back then.

lemko

I heard a story where Brezhnev also had a silver 1974 Chevrolet Monte Carlo with a maroon top.

gsemike

Price seems aggressive How about a few more pics?

Could be decent entry level cruiser Have to wonder why it's being dumped so soon after the engine rebuild. Doesn't seem like that would be a money making propostion

Not sure what this is Can it be driven on the street?

Don't think that this is worth restoring at this price

Nicer LeMans Nice move keeping it green

Different hot rod

Forthright seller

Yeah Baby, said Austin Powers

texases

That Mustang sure seems high, not running, looks like spring shackles poking out the back, no pictures. And that Dart doesn't look worth the bodywork at any price. Course, if buyer does the bodywork that might be different, but still too high.

qbrozen

At first I didn't think that Jag made sense ... but after looking at what they've been selling for recently, that could be a money maker in the right hands.

Mr_Shiftright

1970 Dodge Dart 340 -- no, not worth restoring at that asking price. Maybe not worth restoring for any price. This is not a big buck car when you're done--maybe you could clear $25K for it in Pebble Beach condition? "You can't get there from here"

Baja Bug --- it's a body kit you buy for a VW. I think they are street legal, presuming you don't have an issue with pride.

Datsun 510 Hot Rod -- not so sure about the build quality on this one. You never get your money back on japanese hot rods.

70 Buick Skylark Convertible --GEEZ what a rat. Just go buy a nice one for $15K and be happy.

70 Jaguar Roadster --- these cars are very difficult to restore correctly and I can see this one is on the wrong track. So it's "start all over" and I'm not sure you can come out whole on this kind of project. E-Type prices have gone flat except for the creme de la creme, and I don't even see lowfat milk here.

omarman

1966 Hemi Coronet 4 Door, engine missing, needs restoration, price $600,000.

Interesting thread here regarding the history of rare, 4 door Hemi Mopars.
And another thread recalling how Detroit produced some "rare" cars by special order and others due to production errors and mistakes.

Whether built by "order" or "chaos" is there really a $600k buyer for every 4 door Hemi from the 60s? There may be only a handful in the world but doesn't that prove how unloved a beast like that was? Or does the special recipe of factory 426 Hemi + unusual body style = home run, every auction, every time!

Scroll down to number 6 on the BJ hit list: 1966 Dodge Hemi Coronet 4 DOOR $660,000.00 :surprise:
I could understand this if there were some racing history or other "special purpose" behind the scene. But these sedans are really just 4 door taxis with freak show engines right?

lemko

Next up - a 1969 Checker Marathon with a Chevelle 396 SS engine! :P

Mr_Shiftright

yeah well that was 2007 and this is 2011.

As for the one with the missing engine, that's always going to be a branded car---every high dollar collector will know that it will have a re-stamped engine. The price is silly.

I suppose if you have 1/2 million to spend so that you can trailer a 4-door taxicab around and explain to each and every person why this car is so rare and why it matters, well, go for it. It's not a hill that I'd care to be King of, personally. I'd rather spend the money on a car that has beauty or history to it.

fintail

Just think what you can buy for 600K!

michaellno

Just think what you can buy for 600K!

A $500K house and 3 $30K vehicles, with $10K left over.

lemko

Heck, I could buy everything I currently own, including my house, and still not even go through half of it.

tjc78

I was thinking the same thing, Lemko.

fintail

Even here, in this decayed market, I could get a nice enough house and have enough left over for some vehicular fun.

I can see the value in the rarity of that musclecar taxi, but for the money, one could have so much more fun.

xwesx

I can see the value in the rarity of that musclecar taxi

I can't. Without the engine, it is just another 4-door Coronet. I would think that if that guy received a fifth of his asking price for the car as it currently sits, he'd be making out like a bandit.

fintail

Some people are real big block/mopar lunatics. If the economy wasn't so stale, I bet he'd be able to get somewhere near his price. It'd be cheapish to restore, too, other than the engine.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but these cars came with the VIN stamped on the engine. The car would be a fake.

it's like the joke about George Washington's ax. The museum that owned it had to replace the handle, when it rotted. Then some years later, they lost the head, and had to replace that as well.

andre1969

I can see the value in the rarity of that musclecar taxi, but for the money, one could have so much more fun.

I can see *some* value in that car, but not $600K worth! I guess to someone who's in the Bill Gates/Warren Buffet/Wall-street exec type of wealth class, perhaps, but do those types of people really lust after that type of car?

And on the subject of houses, a nice house just went on the market in my neighborhood, for $350K. 4br/2.5ba colonial with a big addition off the back and finished basement. Half acre. 2 car attached garage, 1 car separate garage. And, it's the last house on a dead-end street! That $600K Hemi taxi could pay for that house and many, many years of property taxes, utilities, and upkeep!

xwesx

could pay for that house and many, many years of property taxes, utilities, and upkeep!

Yeah, but it wouldn't have a Hemi! :P

fintail

Neither does that Coronet anymore :shades:

Regarding my earlier comment - I don't think it is worth anywhere near the 600K, but I can see someone paying insane money for it anyway - same people who'd pay (at least back during the bubble) a million for some rare Cuda etc.

Mr_Shiftright

Well the 600K car doesn't have a Hemi either. You could buy two period-correct Hemi engines, one for the car and one for the house to run the AC perhaps.

andre1969

Yeah, but it wouldn't have a Hemi!

It would when the DeSoto finally comes home from the mechanic! :P

andre1969

You could buy two period-correct Hemi engines, one for the car and one for the house to run the AC perhaps.

How much does a crate hemi cost nowadays? I remember hearing a figure like $10,000, but that was a few years back. Actually, I've heard those older Chrysler "whale" hemi's (they started calling them that after the 426 got nicknamed the "elephant") were often used to power air raid sirens, and for other industrial uses.

lemko

For sale 1966 Dodge Coronet 440 Hemi four-door sedan. Driven by a psychotic young cabbie only to murderous rampages on Sunday.

omarman

It would when the DeSoto finally comes home from the mechanic!

How is the DeSoto progress going?

Despite how looney the hemi Coronet price is, it attracts more attention than any other Detroit 4 door sedan with a killer engine option. I'm trying to think of something comparable from 1960s GM or Ford, but without the hemi kool-aid it's just not the same. And none of it seems worth a center hall colonial in a nice neighborhood.

gsemike

You see any good parts here?

andre1969

You see any good parts here?

Maybe the air cleaner, perhaps the hood and trunk, but that's about it.

gsemike

I wonder if those oil cans under the hood are full? That would increase the value a bit

jlflemmons

hmmm. The header bar on the top of the windshield looks nothing like the header bar on the windshield of a 1970-1972 Cutlass convertible. Makes me wonder if that is a factory convertible or a chop-job. :confuse:

Regardless, nothing there worth keeping.

ab348

About 10 years ago a buddy and I picked up a Cutlass convertible in much the same condition - I think we paid $300. We parted out a surprising amount of stuff - things like trunk hinges (specific to convertibles), stainless trim, lenses, fasteners, etc, along with the engine and transmission - both cores, but of some value. We probably made twice what we bought it for. Whether it was worth the nights of dealing with frozen, rusted bolts, endless rot, and the unique smell of a car whose interior has been exposed to the elements, I cannot say.

omarman

Looks like the last "good part" for that car was sold off during the Reagan years doesn't it? Tag looks like: 1970 Buick Skylark Custom Convertible, 2-Door, black vinyl split bench seat, bamboo cream exterior paint, black convertible top.

1970 was my favorite year for the GS though. When I was a senior in HS a local dealer turned down my offer on a 1970 GS 350 for sale on his lot, same bamboo cream/black interior colors as that Skylark convertible.

tjc78

Two-Tone

M

Looks nice

Chevelle

Wagon

$75 fix on ebay.

qbrozen

what the hell is the back seat still doing in that Chevelle. Even my 5 year old might be a bit challenged to climb past the folded front seat while negotiating under that rollbar.

Mystery mile A4 looks clean ... but auto trans, quattro, and a chip? Why not just toss a grenade in the trans and be done with it?

Mr_Shiftright

New Mercedes 300SD alternators are cheap, only $800 list price. :P

Actually you can get a rebuilt for around $75 bucks, + 1 hour labor, so if the interior isn't too too trashy and you don't mind the car's skin disease, maybe you could bargain it down to $1250 and have a decent daily driver.

However, if you want an alternator that's going to last longer than 5 days, you might want to upgrade to a Bosch rebuilt, or a Denso, for $150 bucks.

andre1969

How is the DeSoto progress going?

Unfortunately, it isn't. The mechanic hasn't done much with it for a few months now. I need to call him and find out what's going on, but I'm also not rushing things, because I still haven't gotten around to adding onto the garage for when it comes home.

lemko

Disney cartoon shows the life of a car

Susie the Little Blue Coupe

stickguy

all local of course, but the 2 tone Vette might only be about 2 miles from me, depending on where in the town it is.

Not that I care to see it in person.

Of the whole lot, the 65 Mercury looks like the nicest car.

texases

So THAT'S where the 'eyes' on the cars in "Cars" came from. Identical!