Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Well if the "ambassador" only drove it from Sacramento to San Francisco, it looks like he had a part-time coal delivery route as well. Geez, look at those seats and floor.

Well, what can one say? if you were a very clever hobbyist you might take this on, but to just bring it to a shop with a blank check in hand---probably not a good idea.

Besides, who wants such a thing? you'd be much better off with the smaller sister to this car, the 6.3 sedan.

On the other hand, if you had a garage you could part out this car and maybe even break even

qbrozen

OK, in the spirit of pondering this lemons thing, here are today's candidates:

'88 MGM
At least its a coupe
At least its a stick
At least its a V6
At least its a new trans
At least its... ummm... pre-damaged?
And... this.

lemko

Maybe "Great Leader" needs a new ride?



Those 1970s Lincolns must be getting pretty tired by now.

lemko

It's the Little Old Ambassador from Sacramen-toooooooo!!!

I understand he used to race against Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Fives and Lehman-Peterson Lincolns back in the day.

michaellno

q - if you haven't done so already, I suggest you check out the Lemons website here.

The $500 includes all purchases and repairs to make the vehicle run, but does not include cost of safety equipment.

I've got a buddy in CA who has run Lemons the last few years. Let me ping him and see if he has any insight into how to approach this.

The BFE GP in Colorado is set for June 2nd & 3rd, 2012.

qbrozen

Yup. I read the rules. What I listed, of course, are just asking prices. I'd have to negotiate to get it where I need it in order to factor in repairs. But, for instance, on the MGM, the brake lines are part of the "brake components" and therefore excluded from the $500 total.

what I do find weird is that "driver comfort" is also excluded.

You can actually spend ALOT of damned money on a car for this purpose. Hell, the required custom rollcage is going to cost more than the car. Then you've got your firesuit, helmet, racing seat, harness, brakes, tires, exhaust, etc, etc all above and beyond the $500.

michaellno

You can actually spend ALOT of damned money on a car for this purpose. Hell, the required custom rollcage is going to cost more than the car. Then you've got your firesuit, helmet, racing seat, harness, brakes, tires, exhaust, etc, etc all above and beyond the $500.

Oh, yeah. I know they promote it as a way to race on a budget, but you still need a few thousand bucks to field an entry, it looks like.

Then, of course, are the costs in decorating the car. Loud paint, wings, fur and extraneous frou-frou all add up as well.

qbrozen

This just HAS to be a joke!

Either that or the guy mixed up his ad copy with another car.

Mr_Shiftright

Rare indeed. They only made a mere 155,000 Camaros that year, with a bone-crushing 195 HP. (optional engine). We're talkin' Honda minivan performance levels here.

boomchek

Haha, reminds me of this listing for a bburago Porsche 959 model car in "mint" condition. Except it has mismatched wheels and a second color on the roof and hood, painted with what looks to be nail polish.

ebay porsche 959 model

Mr_Shiftright

Oh i didn't know there was a 1:24 scale

fintail

Silver BBurago 959, I had one of those around 1987. Wish I hadn't played with them. I also had a cool Bburago 500SEC rally car, also 1:24. I also had that 911 in the last pic, I bought it along with a Bburago 190E.

fintail

The steering wheel which looks taped on really makes it a home run.

lemko

I hear these two guys are interested in that Camaro!

texases

As crazy as that Camaro ad is, at least he didn't ask for a nutty opening bid, like some do. Wonder what his reserve is. Gotta admire his enthusiasm...

andre1969

I vaguely remember Earl's Camaro being decribed as a 1973 with a door off of a 1976 and the transmission out of an '83 Camaro.

qbrozen

Earl drove a lovely El Camino.

boomchek

Haha, I had one too, around the same year but in Italy. I brought it over with me when we moved here.

I saw that Bburago had a 500 SEC but never got it. I think when I have some extra dough and room I'll buy some of these on ebay.

Mr_Shiftright

'57 Airedale?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2773408138.html

gsemike

He should have shown some pride in workmanship and used black tape on the steering wheel

andre1969

Man, that thing's gonna leak all over the driveway! :P

fintail

There's little following of 80s era Bburago right now - maybe a bet for future collectibles - especially the more oddball cars. The earliest Bburago are just now becoming valuable.

When I was in GA a couple months back, I saw a Bburago W116 in an antique mall, but it wasn't mint and I didn't want to spend $20 on it. Had it been boxed, I would have snapped it up.

omarman

Not a 4-4-2 or a convertible but seller is asking just under $12K. The ad has a link to a ton of pics and if an inspection didn't uncover lots of needs this could be a fun cruiser for the money. If you can live with the 4-speed and stock brakes that is. Seller claims it's had 1 respray and I even like the color.

highimpact

Awesome

Mr_Shiftright

Looks a tad rough on photobucket for the price asked, IMO. Dash is beat up, carpets old, engine scuffy--I mean, NOT BAD but I don't know about $12.5K. Just from photos, I'm seein' about an $8500 car here. You're right, an inspector is definitely in order to examine the body and paintwork and have a peek underneath.

tjc78

I wonder what this will go for. Nice find for someone. Grand National's close cousin

Mr_Shiftright

More like a distant cousin. The bid has already busted over high blue book, so I don't know what the seller is expecting here. They should drop the reserve and take the money and run IMO.

martian

Is there any collector's market for these cars?
I believe that NSU was the first to put a rotary/Wankel engine in a passenger car..and that only a handful were sold in the USA.
I'm not sure about Germany-but are parts even available for these cars?
I believ that these engines had tons of problems (oil leaks, edge seal failure,iginition problems).
The Japanese (Mazda) solved most of the Wankel's problems-what a shame such a nice engine design has been abandoned.

lemko

Early Mazdas had the same issues and they almost sunk the company.

qbrozen

It hasn't been abandoned. Mazda's prez is quoted as saying he is commited to the further development of the rotary.

Mr_Shiftright

Well there is the "curiosity market" for cars like the NSU---that is, there are people who will seek them out and collect them, as the oddities or bit of history that they are, but it's hard to get any kind of serious money for them. They'd be like Dauphines, or Triumph Herald sedans, or VW 411s perhaps, but not, unfortunately, like Amphicars or Isettas, which are in another "oddity league" entirely.

Why it all shakes out like this, I don't know.

I think these NSUs should be preserved and are worthy of restoration as a museum piece, but an ordinary collector would be nuts to attempt to restore one. If anything, perhaps you could retro-fit one with a Mazda rotary engine and transmission and drive it to local shows---you'll be the only one, which is kinda fun if you like being the master of ceremonies at a freak show. (I kinda do) :P

fintail

There's a big market for a nice Ro80 - in Europe. Here, probably next to nothing. The cars are very temperamental as you say, and I have a hunch they can get rusty too. That model was sold in the US, I have seen them with US-spec lights replacing the slick flush Euro units. I think another big drawback is that they are guzzlers.

I remember seeing a Mazda pickup that said "Rotary Power" in big letters on the tailgate.

srs_49

Yeah, that's what I remember too. They had problems maintaining a seal along the "cylinder" walls. The seals would wear quickly and the resultant blow by would raise havoc with emissions.

qbrozen

Very very '80s

Actually, I don't mind the lower half, and I can even live with the hood, but that wing and rear hatch have to go.

gsemike

Isn't it mechanically identical to a Grand National?

andre1969

Isn't it mechanically identical to a Grand National?

Very little difference between a Grand National and a T-type. For 1986, I think the Grand National had an intercooler and 240 hp, versus 230 for the T-type. The T-Type could be had in several different colors, whereas the Grand National only came in black, with the silver/black interior. For the most part, the Grand National was just a trim package for the T-type. The T-type is what got you most of the go-fast goodies on the Regal.

Shifty might be thinking of the GNX, which was the grand finale for the turbo Regal. They built something like 547 of them in 1987. The GNX was beefed up, and rumored to have over 300 hp, although when the truth came out it was something like 276.

tjc78

The GNX did 0 to 60 in 4.7 seconds.... I think it was a bit under-rated IMHO.

andre1969

The GNX did 0 to 60 in 4.7 seconds.... I think it was a bit under-rated IMHO.

C&D or MT actually managed to get a regular GN to do 0-60 in something like 4.9 seconds. But they said to not expect similar results, or at least be able to do it consistently. They did their test in January, and during a serious cold snap. And, something to do with cold, dry air being denser, I guess the engine got more oxygen, so it got more power.

Anyway, they said that the regular one should be good for around 6.0. Lots of them have been modded, though, so I'm sure people are getting a lot better times than that out of 'em.

Mr_Shiftright

That is quite right. The GN and the T-Type aren't all that different mechanically, but they are cosmetically.

I *was* thinking of the GNX because I always regarded the GN and T-Type as same-o, same-o---although I think the first GN didn't even HAVE the T's turbo engine first year out.

Another oddity---there is no 1983 GN, onlly 82 & 84.

garv214

Well, thanks to my fellow co-conspirators on this forum, I have actually purchased a car for the 24 hours of Lemons race. I found an ex-lemons racer (79 BMW 528) complete with seat, cage, belts... for under $500 (needs engine work and a fuel cell).

Buying a car that is done, is definitely the affordable (and quick) way to go. The only things we need to get done are to get the engine going and install a fuel cell. Once we get into the engine, we'll know how much of a mess we just got ourselves into...

We are going to try the race at Infineon (Sears Pointless) March 24th/25th. If all goes well, we may try Thunderhill in September.

GBROZEN did you get a car? You can always try the "driver-for-hire" route too...

Hey Shifty, the car is in Santa Cruz and the race is in the Wine Country ... wanna join our team? We have one slot left. heh heh heh... :lemon:

Mr_Shiftright

I'm afraid I have the "red mist" disease. I'd probably destroy your car and kill hundreds. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

speechless:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2786122627.html

fintail

Hilarious! I love it....project car hell, it would attract a crowd at the local MB meet.

steine13

I'd love to hear that car start on a cold morning.

a true "heating oil ferrari" as we say in the old country... ;->

splendid.

Mr_Shiftright

Not only can you "look rich for cheap" by buying an old beater SL, but now you can actually DRIVE for cheap, too!

Well, until you have to fix some part of the SL that isn't a 300 SD.

Wish he had finished it, though. Tough to sell 1/2 a project vehicle these days.

qbrozen

Nah, I thought better of it. I MIGHT go the buy-a-seat route, but even that is darned pricey. Gotta buy the suit/helmet for $500, then the $600-$800 for the event.

At this point, I'm just focusing on track days with my own cars.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm not a big fan of endurance racing.

fintail

Found this cool old beast via another forum...respectable bids so far. Who needs a big cumbersome SUV to tow a boat and haul brats?

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't mind having this one---something different for the car show:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/2795183866.html

andre1969

That thing looks about as exciting as a stroll down the roofing nail aisle at Home Depot...plain jane looks, dull color, etc. But, in a way, I think that's part of its charm. And I'm sure with the 429 under the hood, it's a bit of a sleeper, even though I'm sure that body is no lightweight.

I think my main issue with the '69-70 Fords is that front-end just looks so humdrum and generic. Otherwise, the overall shape of the body's not bad. I liked what they did with the '71-72 facelift, when Bunkie applied the Pontiac-ish styling to it.

There's actually something about the photography in that ad that catches my eye. That wagon, sitting at the curb, with the mist drifting through the park in the background...has sort of a moody, eerie feel to it. Like it could be out of some old suspense or horror movie.