Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Well the ad called it a "sleeper", so--truth in advertising! :P

ab348

It has been a long, long time since I have looked closely at a '69 Ford, and in seeing the excellent pics of that wagon, I may need to reconsider my earlier comment about how much I liked their dashboard design. As a 13 year old in '69 it certainly looked cool and futuristic. But looking at those pics today I am struck by any number of issues. The obvious one was well-documented at the time, namely the placement of the radio and heater controls in front of the driver. But looking at those pics I see several others. The design itself is not well-done from a manufacturing point of view, with lots of gaps and exposed screw heads. The wiper/washer switch looks bizarre. The light control and the ignition switch appear to be afterthoughts, stuck in little pods slung under the drivers dash. The A/C vents in the middle of the dash are rectangular, while the one at the end is eyeball shaped. It really does seem to have been not ready for prime time.

I like the car though. It really does seem to have been in a time capsule.

fintail

I like that Ford for its plain-ness and honesty - it's just a Country Sedan. A Squire would have more bling. A boring car for sure, but I wouldn't be ashamed to drive it - although I wouldn't pay that price for it, now heading for 10K. It's a nice piece of the end of 60s modernism before things got frilly.

It reminds me of a car I saw when I was young - my dad had a '60 Country Sedan, more exciting looking with two tone paint and more chrome. The rear end started making noise, so he swapped it out for a unit from a 70 Squire. I am not sure what was under the hood of that Squire, but my dad claimed the later rear end was better.

I like the photography a lot too, I thought of asking the seller what camera and setting he used.

fintail

Give it a good detail, a set of wide white radials, and maybe a little off the price, and it would be very cool.

lemko

Holy smoke! My cousin Steve had a light green metallic one just like that back in the day! Rust did a number on it. The frame suddenly broke while he was driving up a mountain road and he was lucky he wasn't killed!

garv214

I'm not a big fan of endurance racing.

I might not be either by March 25th or so...

Got the car home over the weekend. The spark plug in the #2 cylinder got smashed by the piston with little metal fragments on the plug... I suspect that our Bavaria motor might not look so pretty when we pull the heads off... Looking on CL for a nice donor engine to drop in.

I am looking forward to racing. Yeah, it's not a cheap hobby to be sure, but my wife is going to race too, so at least we are having fun together with it.

Mr_Shiftright

Probably chunked a piston---detonation.

Mr_Shiftright

Looked at a possible car to flip yesterday---1999 Audi A4, V-6 Quattro. Very very clean but miled-up to 167K. I crawled around and noticed:

scored rotors
cooling fan didn't turn on
leaking heater hoses
oil leaks from camshaft caps
owner says timing belt due

After adding it all up, I offered $500 bucks, basically salvage value. They didn't take it but really it was a fair price--if they had to take this car to a repair shop it would have been $5K easy, to do it professionally and correctly. The cam cap seals require removal of the camshafts BTW.

Car ran well, though and it was spotless.

tjc78

Say they accepted you offer, what out of that list do you fix? I know the brakes and cooling fan are an obvious yes, but do you leave the other stuff and hope to turn it quickly?

fintail

How many who run one of those do everything correctly and professionally?

Mr_Shiftright

I'd swap out the front rotors and pads, yes, for obvious ethical reasons, and I'd fix the fan and the leaking heater hoses (somewhat of a pain but not too bad) and then just inform the buyer about the other stuff. The leaking cam caps is pretty minor (for the moment) and if I were keeping the car, I'd just let that go.

But I'm not going to discount my offer just because I know how to fix the car--that's sort of penalizing myself for my own knowledge.

If I was going to sell the car to a friend then I'd probably fix the timing belt myself. Book rate is 4 hours so it can't be too bad.

Of course, then I have to do the water pump, tensioner, blah blah.

qbrozen

Salvage value sounds right to me. I mean, what person who has to pay a mechanic to fix all that would be dumb enough to buy it? If everything was done and perfect, its what? A $3k car? :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

well being spotless and a quattro, maybe a bit more private party retail but that's ballpark at a dealer auction, and then some.

If it were a stickshift, I might have bumped the offer.

martian

As Shifty says, a car like this could (if fixed) give you another 50,000 miles.
It could also blow up in a parking lot.
I would avoid ALL high mileage Audis-they cost a fortune to fix, and can quickly develop problems that render them essentially worthless.
I wonder what happens to these cars in Germany? For a long time, Greeks and Turks would buy them, ship them home (where work is cheap) and use them as taxicabs-don't know if that is done anymore.
Its amazing that a $65,000 car essentially becomes worthless-those finelay crafted leather seats, real wood dashes-becomes a chicken coop in some Turkish village.

Mr_Shiftright

I know of a 2006 audi A8, pretty low miles, that's been on jackstands for over a year now. Bad transmission.

Book says 18.5 hours + $8800 for the transmission/transaxle, so really now.....

In a high end shop, that's about $2500 labor + $8800 parts + whatever else you have to do while everything is out on the floor.

So that's 1/2 the value of the car just to get it moving again, after 70K miles of use. Audi said "Have a nice day". (don't know the circumstances).

MSRP $80,000

Can it be save? Yes, by the owner of an Audi repair shop. He can make out on it. But for the average owner, what a decision! Spend maybe $12,000 to fix a $21,000 car that has already depreciated $10K a year?

Well, maybe, but these are staggering sums of money to me.

fintail

Nice looking (my color) well preserved slooooow fintail got some acceptable bids

Mr_Shiftright

Can you imagine turning on the AC on that car...it would STOP---LOL!

tjc78

Did these come stock with an electric fan, or was that added later?

fintail

You mean 55hp isn't enough for that and lugging around 3000lbs of leftover Schwere Panzer steel and iron at the same time? :shades:

The Kulhmeister sticker is cool, anyway.

And yeah, I am pretty sure the electric fan is much newer than the car.

xwesx

It might be a good addition, though, as the mechanical fan is likely the larger parasite. With 55 hp, every little bit counts! :P

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't mind at all having that car--but I wouldn't pay that kind of money for it.

fintail

Scares me that my fintail has more than twice the hp of that car, and it's not exactly a super-sedan. 0-60 has to be well over 20 seconds in that thing, esp as it is automatic.

bhill2

Can you imagine turning on the AC on that car...it would STOP---LOL!

OMG! With the automatic I am surprised that it would be moving in the first place. My mother's cousin had a '62 190D (the same color actually, but a stick) and it is by far the slowest car I ever drove. I do have to give it credit, however, for being the car that showed me just how much I appreciate craftmanship. It is one of the main reasons that I bought my '85 380SE, still own it, and plan to keep it for the rest of my life or until it has to be euthanized.

fintail

Your W126 will last forever if you take care of it and don't let rust get to it. Sadly, cash for clunkers did eat up a few of them.

michaellno

You mean 55hp isn't enough for that and lugging around 3000lbs of leftover Schwere Panzer steel and iron at the same time?

My folks had a later generation of that car -- a '72 220D. I think they were able to get 65 HP out of the engine by that time.

I got a CA vanity plate as a gift to my folks one Christmas.

REAL SLO

Also, it had the stiffest throttle spring I've ever encountered.

bhill2

Sadly, cash for clunkers did eat up a few of them.

I was in the market for a new car while this program was in effect. I wouldn't have given up the old crock in any case, but I was almost literally sickened by the thought that if I did the engine would be destroyed.

Oh, I live in California, so rust isn't a major problem.

fintail

Just don't store it in the sun, and it will continue to age well. My W126 was at about 200K when I moved on, but looked like a car with 20K on it.

There are some sad videos on youtube of cars being "clunked". Old MB being clunked is sad, but it put a lot of trim parts on the market anyway.

fintail

That extra 200cc must have made a big difference, a sports car now :shades:

MB never got over the stiff throttle ideal, they still have it.

Mr_Shiftright

I remember once being in Aspen Colorado at about 8800 feet. I had parked my 300D (non-turbo) on a slight incline. So I started it up, pressed on the go pedal, and the car simply refused to move--it was like it had the emergency brake on. Finally it started to creep forward, then more and more, and after 1/4 of a block or so it could be shifted into drive (automatic trans).

But it made it from CA to CO and back without skipping a beat--and I actually drove from Ely NV to San Francisco on one tank of fuel with still some left to cruise around for a couple days.

yeah, it was one of those "it'll go 800,000 miles" type of Mercedes diesels---except that I knew the history of the car. It had 300,000 miles on it, but new cylinder head, rebuilt transmission, new axles, radiator, AC sytem, HVAC controls, windshield, paint job, front end overhaul.

Kinda sorry I sold it--it was in such nice shape, but the differential was really howling and it started consuming vast amounts of oil, so I punched out over friendly territory.

lemmer

Did you put in your sales ad "300K miles isn't even broken for one of these babies!"

Mr_Shiftright

No I don't "puff" my cars--I am very straight up when I sell--I want good karma and I have always been very fortunate in the cars I buy, and sellers have been straight with me---so I keep that wheel turnin'.

of course, I *do* detail the heck out of them.

The 300D was very nice looking indeed---*really* clean. But I got 2 good years and lots of miles out of her (her name was "bertha") and only had maybe #$3500 bucks total in the car, so I was very pleased to get $3500 for it.

The car sold on its looks, quite frankly.

stickguy

Not that I would or could, but this doesn't look like a horrible project for someone reasonably handy to take on to keep themselves busy.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2791825996.html

Mr_Shiftright

I dunno....lots of rust on a unibody. These are not easy to repair, and would require lots of welding.

The car looks very rusty---I'm thinking it's done for.

Also, it has a non-synchro transmission (in first gear), which is not great since we can't drive the car to see if first gear is all mashed up (Usually it is). That might mean a new layshaft and then we're getting into some bucks.

You'd have to be a real historian to want to do this car, because you will be buried financially unto your grave. Also an ace welder.

fintail

This accessory would end up being a lot of work, but it would be cool...well, cool if I was lucky

Mr_Shiftright

My Fintail had AC and it worked, too! :P

fintail

What would a compressor and installation cost? A grand maybe? Add that to the cost of the unit...tough purchase as I would rarely use it here. I should tend to other things first.

I've heard the units work well if maintained, though. I remember back around 2000 or so I could have bought a very clean and complete straight but rusty 220S parts car with a complete Kuhlmeister setup for like $250.

Mr_Shiftright

yeah maybe a grand. The really slick way to do it would be to make that console merely a dummy box and use all modern parts in the AC---just have the cold air blow out those vents and hide everything else using a vintage air setup.

bhill2

tough purchase as I would rarely use it here

You might be surprised, Fin. When I was still in school up there my father bought a '72 Volvo with add-on AC. The air intake was in the cabin about 2 inches from the passenger's kick vent. Open the vent and you had fresh air AC, close the vent you had recirculation. On a cold damp day you started the car, waited until warm air came out of the heater vents, and turned on the AC with the kick vent closed. It would clear the windows in minutes. Quite nice. Oh, it cooled the car in summer too.

fintail

Sounds expensive. Maybe I'll look into that if I actually ever restore the car - sounds easier with lots of stuff removed.

fintail

Luckily my car lives in a garage, and in the heat I just roll down all the windows. It does sound fun, something pretty rare in fintails, and I could get a cool window sticker, but I don't know if that's money well spent when the car still needs the cooling system corrected, and the tires are 90s vintage.

tjc78

I guess I'm a wuss, because here in the northeast I hate not having A/C. Its just so darn humid in the summer. The only good thing is if its too hot, you don't have to drive the car!

stickguy

I don't like AC myself. Only put it on as a last resort. or if my wife is inthe car! I prefer the windows down and moonroof open. I hate being cold.

And good point about classic cars. You just don't frive them in unsuitable conditions.

tjc78

I wish I was like that. Its on in my house from practically mid-May through Halloween! If my house gets over 75 its on (especially if its humid).

As for the car, my fiance and I have serious diiferences of opinion. She gets mad at me for keeping it too cold. Thank God for dual-zone controls!

fintail

On one of the rare local 90 day degrees, the old beast gets to stay in the garage. Works for me.

I'll get to drive it a little today, garage where it lives had a system failure and the car needs to be moved for a few hours. Fun.

Mr_Shiftright

DARE TO LIVE DANGEROUSLY

omarman

So far 6 brave bidders are up to a current $6,300 and reserve not met. Always thought these cars were pretty cool ever since I saw The Longest Yard (original one). I like everything about it except the cost of owning, repairing, and struggling to find service outside of SM world.

texases

That's why it's called the S(&)M...

fintail

I wonder if it would be blacklisted from the towing coverage on your insurance, or if it would make it far enough to be towed to begin with.

French-Italian marriage, probably won't end well.

Mr_Shiftright

You're probably right...French fussiness mated to Italian chaos....not good.

In it's defense, though, this particular SM as been vastly upgraded for reliability. They *are* fun to drive. The problem is, when they're broken, you can't give them away, whereas if it were an old Chevy truck or Corvette, you'd always have someone to bail you out, at least part-way.

explorerx4

I remember my uncle in Germany had a very similar car, but a 4 door.
Is that plywood and a piece of 2x4 in the trunk in the last picture?