Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

qbrozen

Couple of interesting ones there. A Scoupe? Might be the last one on earth.

So a TownCar named Fred, huh?

qbrozen

ok, I figured I might be able to find more interesting stuff... I was wrong.

This guy goes into WAY too much detail.
wonder if this is a stick.
What's this work out to? About 30 cents a pound?
There is just SO much wrong with this ad.
The issues are so minor, he need not even tell you about them.
Here's a rare one. But do I HAVE to drive to California if I buy it??

omarman

Still running with the $2k limit plus "1979" results in a wonderful time warp of memories and nightmares:

El Camino Royal Knight. Wonder if any vendor offers a reproduction hood chicken lizard decal?
VW Westfalia Camper. Wonder if this was ever smoked in?
Dodge Magnum XE. Wonder if "needs some body work" is always followed by "half the trunk is rotted out" in Napoleon Ohio?
Pinto Hatchback 351 V8. Wonder if this car will really be worth over 30 percent more in the spring?

tjc78

That VW camper seems cheap if you are into those things. Don't they bring big money in good shape?

steine13

They sure do. The question is always: Can you get there from here?

For the last 10 minutes I've been cruising the local craigs to see what you can get for $2 in these parts. Oy gevalt!

Soon's I find one that might work, I'll post it. Doesn't look good...

Oh wait: Right up my alley.
http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/2756289236.html

stickguy

If the Camino was done, I would be interested. I always wanted one of those when I was a kid.

and sadly, I like V-8 pintos. A different color interior and a manual trans, and have some fun!

stickguy

2K is for amateurs. Real men can do it for 1K.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2757520244.html.

Other than that, a ton of Ford Trucks under 2K. And if you want something a little more luxurious (though too bad it looks like a wildebeest ate the drivers seat):

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2747792987.html

fintail

Wow, that Pinto is something...can't say I really like it, but can't say I hate it either. Project car hell that will either break you finishing it, or kill you once it is finished.

fintail

A few at 1K or less, Seattle:

Haul stuff
Looks very presentable
"GT"
Brick
Preserved looking Ciera
80s style
If it only needs what the ad says, that's a cheap fix
Beater for Andre or tjc78
More old GM
Even older GM

I like the idea of having a year selection or limit, too.

tjc78

That Mark isn't a Cartier, but would be a fun beater if you could afford to feed it.

The 93 LeSabre would be a good winter car.

Conquest, couldn't tell you the last time I saw one on the road.

omarman

I remember the Royal Knight edition because of the intertwined "dragon" hood decal which - surprise! - looked much like the T/A hood decal. There were also one or two other special tape-and-plastic El Camino options that year along with the Royal Knight but I don't remember what they were.

And the V8 Pinto was another jarring memory because a friend of mine built one in '78. He used a 289 and 4-speed from an old Mustang but not sure of the rear axle donor. Sorting his project Pinto involved fixing whatever broke first on each test drive. After the car survived its first hard drive without breakage a girl came to his shop and offered $4k cash for it. Sold!

gsemike

Very interesting discourse. News cars are so damn expensive but it does like there is servicable transportation available in the 1 - 2 range

steine13

(i) New cars are about as cheap -- the official word is 'affordable' I believe -- as they've ever been.

(ii) A lot of the 'serviceable transportation' is pure crap once you look at it closely. The occasional diamond in the rough is out there, but it's tough to find.

Of all the junk that went across the screen, the best area appears to be Seattle, and the best car there was the '93 Buick.

Around here -- mid-MI -- $1000 cars will have every single bolt rusted solid. And fuel/brake lines near rust-through.

stickguy

I got real lucky with the $2K Acura 3.2TL (MY 2000) I got exactly 3 years ago. Still running strong.

helped to be able to buy it for trade value (family deal).

steine13

'helped to be able to buy it for trade value (family deal).'

Which is exactly why it doesn't count in evaluating the market.

I stopped looking at Hondas almost 20 years ago after checking out a rusty $900 piece of junk that was stopped from rolling down the driveway by a brick behind the rear tire and had -- literally -- pieces falling off of it.

Five years back, I did buy a $700 Civic Si, 15 years old, with 210k miles that was a great deal. I got it from a friend at work who didn't have time to mess with Craigslist.

Once people go to the trouble of taking a picture and composing an ad, they're looking for the going rate.. and the going rate for $1000 beaters is around $2,500 by my count...

omarman

In '05 my wife and I were shopping used cars in the $5k range and were put off by the parade of miled-up rust-n-dent specials at local dealers. We were just in the market for a daily driver and putting off a new purchase til later. But after looking at terms, warranty, and even price (bang for the buck) we found much better results shopping new cars at the same dealers. Still seems that way too. (edited to add: in Columbus OH area.)

Re: Used cars in the midwest
My brother now lives in the SeaTac area and after growing in the rust belt he's impressed by what survives - and still drives - in some parts of Washington state. He and his wife still shop new instead of used, but if they ever decide to take up car collecting that sounds like a great place to do it. :shades:

omarman

Very interesting discourse.
You're welcome!

qbrozen

My $1500 Benz wasn't bad. Looked like hell, but worked well enough while I had it. And selling it for $2k a few months later covered the few repairs I did make in that time. But, of course, it is a bit different for folks like me who don't have to rely on paying a mechanic.

I still believe my best buy ever was the $1200 300Z.

andre1969

Of that bunch, I actually like that '85 Cutlass Ciera! Provided, of course, that it doesn't need anything major. I like the '74 Cutlass and '78 Mark V as well, although if you do a lot of driving, neither would be very practical because of the fuel economy.

fintail

I actually liked the Ciera too, when I was a kid one similar was in my family, and it's been a long time since I have seen one that looks as nice. Looks like a little old lady car, and if it all checks out, is easily worth the money.

This area is easy on cars. I see 70s and 80s stuff on the road every day. Like I mentioned elsewhere, my brother has an 83 Toyota pickup as a daily driver, the bed is just starting to get scaly - which could probably be prevented if he wasn't so lazy. Back east all of those were gone 15 years ago.

I once bought a $1600 MB which I still own. It has sucked down a little in repairs over the years (worst being a broken piston ring, and king pins), maybe I could break even on it if I was lucky, but that's not the point. It was my daily driver for several years, and is now my hobby car. Worth it.

Mr_Shiftright

I decided to make the $2000 mark even *harder* by inserting the definer (my term) of *interesting* (my definition) into the equation.

I found a couple--

But I can STILL see it!

Not So Interesting but Useful

Hot Rod for Seniors

Not a Bad Deal

A Cheap Bet for the Risk Taker

fintail

Interesting in Seattle:

Interesting cult behind these
Another interesting roll of the dice
Interestingly durable
Interesting they would make a design for such a short period
Interesting people would get one to this mileage
Old 3ers could be interesting
Interesting headlights and condition looks nice
Interesting reliability and coolness
Interesting aircraft carrier on wheels
Interesting spelling
Mid engine is always interesting
Interesting period paint and that it exists at all

Mr_Shiftright

Saab SPG --yes, a cult of cheapskates that praise the car to the clouds and never do anything to fix them (that ad is a case in point---am I right or am I right?)

'94 -- good price but windshields on those are very pricey I think, and this "little oil leak" is worth investigating--that could be a little head gasket.

Alfa 164 LS -- well, it's an absolutely *great* car to drive. Probably, as it is, a money pit. The engines are quite durable, it's the rest of the car that you have to worry about.

BMW 320i -- everyone hated them when new, and we still hate them now.

82 Audi Coupe -- another cult car with a penniless congregation.

Toyota MR2 -- $1500 to rebuild an engine?----er...I don't think so. Maybe to patch one up.

'77 Datsun Pickup---that's a good deal.

qbrozen

Not that I can easily comprehend what the seller wrote, but I don't think he meant the engine was rebuilt for $1500... I think he bought a used one for $1k and paid someone $1500 to put it in.

Mr_Shiftright

Well that makes more sense actually....

omarman

1963 Pontiac Tempest convertible.
Top of the line Toyota station wagon.

Rare to spot a Peugeot 405 MI16 around here...
...and same seller also has a 505 STI for $800.

Interesting collectible when you've got a couple grand to spend in Crooksville...
...or just running through Logan with only 1 grand.

Went searching for a Pacer but found a Matador...
...and a Hornet similar to the one which lived across the street 9 years ago.

fintail

Cressida wagon is cool, Hornet looks decent enough. 280SE probably heading for parts car status unless the problems are very minor, those rust easily in such areas too.

Mr_Shiftright

63 Tempest convertible --well, it's not a $2000 car, with a locked up motor and in that condition. it's rusty, too. This looks like a parts car to me.

'82 Cressida --that looks like a good buy!

'89 Peugeot -- might be worth a look. Fun to drive, utterly worthless in America.

'83 Monte Carlo SS----so NOT worth $2000. You can buy clean ones ready to roll for $4000, so there's no upside on this cripple.

'69 Benz 280SE -- parts alone might be worth the price, to restore the far more valuable coupes or convertibles. I'd definitely break this car up.

qbrozen

I like the MI16 and the Hornet.

Mr_Shiftright

okay, I'll bite. What possible redeeming social value do you see in a '70 Hornet? :P

Let me think about this:

Fun? No
Value? No
Styling? No
Speed? No
Status? No
Comfort? No
Economy? No
Reliability? No

Kitsch?** Aha, I may have stumbled on something

**kitsch [ kich ]
artistic vulgarity: sentimentality, tastelessness, or ostentation in any of the arts
vulgar objects: collectively, decorative items that are regarded as tasteless or sentimental.

HMMMM....no, it's not *quite* that, is it....... :confuse:

qbrozen

I disagree on style and reliability.

and let's not forget uniqueness.

and there is always the possibilities it offers. A 360ci would fit nicely.

stickguy

in my younger days, I owned bot a Hornet and a Gremlin (both well used and while I was in college).

for the day, they were as good as the other options!

I still would not mind having a Gremlin X with a 304 V8 and a 4 speed. Spin those back tires!

andre1969

I kinda like that Hornet, in a reverse-chic sort of way. But yeah, it would be much better if it had a 360, or even a 304 under the hood. But keep the exterior looking like the sleeper that it is.

I remember seeing a Hornet for sale at Carlisle a couple years ago, and sat in it. Hate to say it, but it felt like a torture chamber. The seat was low, hard, and had no support, the steering wheel was grossly oversized and in a bad position for me, and the transmission hump was huge, which forcred the driver's footwell area into a squeezed position.

If it had a better seat with a wider range of travel, and a more modern sized steering wheel that was positioned better and could tilt, it wouldn't have been a bad little car. But, to be fair, these things tended to be built to a price to compete with the Big Three, and were often stripped to the bone.

Mr_Shiftright

Well fair enough I guess they are no more or less reliable than anything else in 1970, but...."styling"? I'm not seein' that appeal here. It's pretty homely IMO.

Yep a big engine in a little anything can make a car amusing. :P

gsemike

But could contribute to lots of projects

I don't know how you'd make odds or ends of this or value it

texases

Hasn't this been put up for sale before? I guess I'm not surprised it's still there - a million parts that, IIRC, aren't cataloged. who knows how to value it?

tjc78

The property is included too. This would be a good thing for the eccentric car lover with a few mil just sitting around.

gsemike

Wouldn't that person most likely have his own similar property already unless it's some new money eccentric?

qbrozen

so a buddy of mine has put a bug in my ear about entering Lemons this year. Shifty, you are familiar with this right? I'm curious what qualities are most important in a car for this. Obviously, reliability is always important, but, for instance, does light and frugal trump powerful and tanklike? Given, oh let's say an Escort vs Crown Vic, which is better suited for this task?

tjc78

I think an old box body Crown Vic or Grand Marq would b perfect for this. Cheap to buy and fix, tough to kill.

fintail

Another year passes, the old beast gets another year older. Had her out today - I was afraid the battery was starting to go, but on this admittedly unusually warm morning, it fired up without issue after sitting for a month. Ran and drove as nicely as ever.

Almost 50 now, still looking good:

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's somewhat of a "contact sport" and there's a big mix of very experience (and I do mean *very*) drivers and rookies all out there at the same time. It's not a race, it's an endurance thingie, so if I were running, I'd get a comfy car that won't beat you up, and just ride on the outside rail at your own pace--stay out of the mix, be sure to have reliable teammates, and be the tortoise, not the hare. Driving all that time is very tiring, and you don't want some loud, smelly crate with bad seats. I was going to sponsor a beat to crap '59 Chevy and call it the Death Bat, but after a few races, I lost interest. I'm not a joiner as a rule. I was one of the first judges though, at the first 3 races, and that was fun, since there were no rules. Same with the early Burning Man--no rules, no fees. I like complete, dangerous anarchy. :P

srs_49

Same with the early Burning Man--no rules, no fees. I like complete, dangerous anarchy

Sounds like the first Canon Ball runs.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh yeah. We used to have a drive-by shooting range....you just drove past, opened the passenger window, and blasted targets propped up in the desert. People got lost. One guy jumped into a hot springs and well....back then there were only maybe 1000 people who came. They were real freaks then, not Mall rats. (Compare and contrast haight-ashbury THEN and haight ashbury NOW).

The last year i went a guy drove the "earthquake car", which had been crushed by a tree branch. His license plate had the date of the San Fran earthquake...no, the TIME of the earthquake, in 1989.

Let's see---what other car events...oh yeah, you'd shut off your headlights at night, point toward the distant mountains, and floor it.

I guess there's a fine line between fun and stupid, but you know, that's the way life USED to be. Idiots were punished. Not now.

qbrozen

Good to know, thanks.

However, the "comfy" part is somewhat compromised by the fact that they require you to put in an actual racing seat, harness, and full rollcage. That latter requirement really hurts my choices because they require that your helmet be 2 inches away from the cage. My helmeted head isn't 2 inches away from the ceiling of any car, let alone an added cage.

How is refueling handled? And how much of an impact is it to have a car that sucks more gas and needs to stop for fuel more often?

lemko

...olive green metallic 1969 Pontiac Catalina convertible on the PA Turnpike going south to the Blue Route.

Mr_Shiftright

I really don't know how it's run now. I was in at the earliest stages, when there were no rules. But the race tracks clamped down and now it's not dangerous anymore, so I lost interest :P

But I'm sure you could find something to work. Personally, I'd drive it with the AC on and the radio playing (don't laugh--some very famous race drivers used to listen to the radio in the 50s during long races).

Given that you have 12 or 24 hours, I'd expect that pit stops are still quite leisurely. Probably you refuel when you switch drivers.

boomchek

Very nice!

fintail

Thanks. Getting a compliment today is nice, as this day the car has its greatest yearly expense - garage rent :shades: :sick:

fintail

So...who wants to be eaten alive?