Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

texases

"The 121 HP isn't much more than a Scion xB"

Current xB: 158 hp...

Other makers were slowly digging out of the dismal 70s when the 528e came out. I just didn't get it - same year I got my GTI, seemed like BMW was moving backwards.

Mr_Shiftright

I remember how much BMW enthusiasts hated that car---they still do I think...coming right after the equally unpopular 320i, it probably caused no small sense of alarm. Fortunately, cars like the M 535i were being built.

andre1969

Yeah, the 'i' would do 0-60 in about 8.2 sec, the 'e' in about 10.3 sec ...WOOF!

I found a 0-60 time that lists the 1979 528i at 8.1 seconds, at this site...
http://www.zeroto60times.com/BMW-Bimmer-0-60-mph-Times.html

Not sure of the original source, but this website usually gets its data from old MT, R/T, or C&D tests. Considering the source, I'd imagine that time was from a manual transmission. I wonder how much an automatic would hurt performance in a car like that?

FWIW, the only domestic sedans that could be considered "fast" in 1979 were police cars. I have an old police car book that mentions some old road test of a 1979 Volare and Malibu comparison test where the Volare did 0-60 in 8.7 seconds and the Malibu in 8.9.

Scrolling through some other figures, I found a 1979 Trans Am 400 doing 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, and a Corvette L82 doing it in 7.2.

So, overall I'd say that 528i stacks up quite well, for the time period.

hpmctorque

"... that 528i stacks up quite well, for the time period."

That's especially true considering that BMWs of that era were more about handling, road holding, nimbleness, driving feel, understated elegance and quality workmanship than about 0-60 times (an American thing).

omarman

Funny thing about that '79 Vette was that it ran zero-to-60 as quick as a new $20K 911SC or a $40K 6.9 sedan! And that's in malaise dollars, when used pony cars were still very popular sellers packing more bang for the buck than anything on the dealer showroom floor. Also funny that when new car acceleration is explained in relative terms then it's a good chance that we're reflecting on 70s-80s cars with minor collector interest and modest performance. That's the Dark Asterisk Era signifying carburetor induction, single exhaust with twin-tip outlets and lean burn technology.

edited to add: Everybody and his BMW brother had to focus on something other than zero to 60 times back then. Otherwise buyers might balk at the 100-hp under the pricey hood of a 3-series and ask, "Where's the beef?" :P

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe a '79 Corvette ran a stoplight race as fast as a 911 but the minute you turned the steering wheel or hit the brakes you were in the back of the pack as quickly as you watched stars disappear on the viewing screen on the USS Enterprise hitting warp speed. People bought 911s for their grace on the road, not to burn rubber. Also 911s didn''t fall to pieces in 5 years.

The "woof...woof" comment was for the 528e, not the i. The 528i's performance was pretty much tops for a large sport sedan of that era.

jwilliams2

So true. The 528i was a great car in that period. I bought a 535i 5 speed new in '86, and it was a blast to drive. Can't think of a sedan back then that compared for spirited driving.

texases

Re: the 528i - a while back C/D interviewed a BMW club president, who considered that era 528i to be the best value in used BMWs. I looked for one for a while in the late 80s, didn't find one I liked...

Mr_Shiftright

I'd agree with that, an early 528i (they didn't make them for too long) or an early 325i, or an 735, are excellent values. You can find nice ones for $3500.

fintail

My 1981 Consumer Guide claims 0-60 in 9.4 for a 5-speed 528i - but I suspect they didn't push it as hard as they could. They also claim an overall 24mpg, which is impressive.

Mr_Shiftright

Well all we know for sure is that a new Honda Accord will destroy it in a drag race :P

jae5

1967 Z/28 has been treated to a professional restoration that is almost complete. It shows beautifully as is but will need some work to finish it up. It is currently in non-running condition..."

Scenic pics complement the vague seller ad text. Wonder exactly what it is and what needs repair?

A couple things it's going to need to run are the fuel line and filter and wiring for the alternator. If you check the engine bay shots the fuel line is definitely absent and the alternator is missing it's wiring. Exhaust looks absent as well (manifolds are there but can't see any tailpipe exits / mufflers anywhere). Also, those aux. gauges at the console are incorrect.

I think they're looking for B-J auction money...

Very nice piece and presentation is excellent :shades:

hpmctorque

A new Accord 4-cylinder would probably beat that 528i, not to mention the V-6. The fun-to-drive factor might go to the 528i, though, even though a new EX with manual transmission might be entertaining.

andre1969

A new Accord 4-cylinder would probably beat that 528i, not to mention the V-6.

The V-6 would blow it away, but the 4-cyl, not by as much as you might think. I've seen "street start" figures (which are more like real-world) of around 9.2-9.3 seconds. I also saw a test of an LX Accord with the stick shift that put it around 8.0 seconds.

I have a feeling that 9.4 that Consumer Guide got from the '81 528 would be more like 8-8.4 if it was tested by MT or C&D.

hpmctorque

Yeah, that corresponds with what I was thinking.

I know someone who has a '11 Accord EX 4-cylinder, manual. He drives conservatively, and insists that he prefers manuals. I know someone else who has a '08 or so Camry 4-cylinder, manual. He's the original owner.

For the '12 model year all Camrys are automatic.

oldfarmer50

What makes this car worth what he's asking? Is it a super collectable or something?

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/2664432188.html

fintail

Extra zero perhaps? :shades:

I don't see it either. Common engine, common style, I don't see what's special.

Mr_Shiftright

Might have been a minor collectible back when it was actually a car. A Pebble Beach restoration might bring $25,000, a lovely clean driver probably $12K, a completely intact, running version of this car in this condition perhaps $3K-$4K.

So what he has here---perhaps $900?

ab348

I think even $900 is too much.

Mr_Shiftright

Well there are possibly some rare bits for parts. I mean, with some of these old Mopars (not this one) you can pay $900 for an air filter housing and for some OEM, NOS types of special air induction filters as much as $4000.

andre1969

I always thought it was a shame that Mopar limited the 426 Hemi to only the intermediates and a handful of Darts and Barracudas.

I think the top engine in the Sport Fury, which was supposed to be a Plymouth equivalent of the Impala SS, was a 426 Wedge with around 365 hp. The Impala SS had up to a 425 hp 396.

lemko

When did the Impala stop using the 409 V-8? I believe it was 1964, but I'm not sure.

andre1969

I had to look it up...it actually made it part way through 1965, so I guess the 396 was sort of a mid-year introduction?

My Dad had a '63 Impala SS409 with the 425 hp setup that he bought used, and sold when he got drafted. When he got out of the army, he bought a used '65 SS396 with the 425 hp setup. One Saturday night on a lonely back road, it threw a rod, and he simply abandoned it. That was around 1971 I guess.

Mr_Shiftright

409---not that good an engine. Better for a truck.

tjc78

409---not that good an engine

So the Beach Boys were lying....

Nothing can catch her, nothing can touch my 409......

:P :P

omarman

"Maybe a '79 Corvette ran a stoplight race as fast as a 911 but the minute you turned the steering wheel or hit the brakes you..."

...should enjoy watching the Porsche 911 driver spin out when he turns the wheel and hits the brakes! More fun than Star Trek. :P

berri

409---not that good an engine. Better for a truck.

Wasn't the 409 based on the 348? The 348 was first a truck engine which Chevy later moved over to cars when the marketplace started demanding larger displacement engine alternatives to the 283 V8.

andre1969

Wasn't the 409 based on the 348? The 348 was first a truck engine which Chevy later moved over to cars when the marketplace started demanding larger displacement engine alternatives to the 283 V8.

Yep, it was originally a truck engine. I guess with Plymouth offering the 350 wedge for '58, and Ford coming out with the "FE" engine (I think that one was initially offered as a 332 and 352 displacement), Chevy had to do something quick to compete.

berri

I love the Beach Boys and their song 409, but personally I'd go with a 396!

fintail

I like the song "Shut Down"...the line "I've got a fuel injected engine sittin under my hood" allows me to use it in the fintail :shades:

lemko

Cool songs for cool cars. I doubt very much anybody will be writing songs about a Prius, (except maybe as a sick parody). There are a quite a few songs about M-Bs.

fintail

That's one way you can tell the impact of a car - if it makes it into music. No hybrid songs, I am pretty sure - not good songs anyway. The appeal of 50s and 60s cars is proven by their inclusion in music.

tjc78

I was surprised recently to hear a country song that mentions a Lincoln Town Car.

lemko

1. Hot Rod Lincoln - Commander Cody/Charlie Ryan/Johnny Bond/Bill Kirchen
2. Rocket 88 - Jackie Brenston and his Delta Cats
3. Little Deuce Coupe - Beach Boys
4. G.T.O. - Ronny and the Daytonas
5. Hey Little Cobra - Rip Chords
6. 409 - Beach Boys
7. One Piece At A Time - Johnny Cash and the Tennessee Three
8. Low Rider - War
9. Beep Beep - Playmates
10. Pink Cadillac - Bruce Springsteen
11. Maybellene - Chuck Berry
12. Little Red Corvette - Prince
13. Shut Down - Beach Boys
14. Mustang Sally - Wilson Pickett/Sir Mack Rice
15. Fun Fun Fun - Beach Boys
16. The Little Old Lady (From Pasadena) - Jan & Dean
17. Dead Man's Curve - Jan & Dean
18. Racing In The Street - Bruce Springsteen
19. Mercury Blues - K.C. Douglas/Alan Jackson/Steve Miller Band
20. 455 Rocket - Kathy Mattea
21. Hot Rod Race - Arkie Shibley/Ramblin' Jimmy Dolan
22. Greased Lightnin' - John Travolta "Grease" Soundtrack
23. Drag City - Jan & Dean
24. Ol '55 - Eagles
25. In My Merry Oldsmobile - Billy Murray
26. Lord Mr. Ford - Jerry Reed
27. See The U.S.A. In Your Chevrolet - Dinah Shore
28. Last Kiss - J. Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers
29. Drive My Car - Beatles
30. Look At That Cadillac - Stray Cats
31. My Hooptie - Sir Mix-a-Lot
32. Long May You Run - Neil Young
33. Cadillac Ranch - Bruce Springsteen
34. No Money Down - Chuck Berry
35. Cadillac Red - Judds
36. You Can't Catch Me - Chuck Berry
37. Be Thankful For What You Got - William DeVaughn
38. Jaguar And The Thunderbird - Chuck Berry
39. Mercedes Benz - Janis Joplin
40. Whose Cadillac Is That - War
41. No Particular Place To Go - Chuck Berry
42. Tell Laura I Love Her - Ray Peterson
43. I'm In Love With My Car - Queen
44. Ride On Josephine - George Thorogood/Bo Diddley
45. Red Barchetta - Rush
46. Roll On Down The Highway - B.T.O.
47. Ain't Nothing Wrong With The Radio - Aaron Tippen
48. Radar Love - Golden Earring
49. Old Betsy Goes Boing, Boing, Boing - Hummers
50. (Seven Little Girls) Sitting In The Back Seat - Paul Evans
51. Car Wash - Rose Royce
52. Fireball Rolled A Seven - Dave Dudley
53. The Ballad Of Thunder Road - Robert Mitchum
54. You're Not Safe In A Japanese Car - John Goldsmith
55. Long White Cadillac - Dwight Yoakam
56. Rollin' In My Rolls - Moon Martin
57. The One I Loved Back Then - George Jones
58. Highway Star - Deep Purple
59. Goin' Mobile - The Who
60. Terraplane Blues - Robert Johnson
61. '49 Mercury Blues - Brian Setzer Orchestra
62. Cars - Gary Numan
63. Race With The Devil - Gene Vincent
64. Hot Rod Man - Tex Rubinowitz
65. Still Cruisin' - Beach Boys
66. Let It Roll - Little Feat
67. Hot Rod Gang - Stray Cats
68. Rockin' Down The Highway - Doobie Brothers
69. Transfusion - Nervous Norvus
70. Fishtail Blues - Wynonie Harris
71. Crown Victoria Custom '51 - Jerry Lee Lewis
72. Voodoo Cadillac- - Southern Culture on the Skids
73. V-8 Ford (Going To Your Funeral) - Buddy Moss
74. Pontiac Blues - Sonny Boy Williamson
75. White Cadillac - The Band
76. Vehicle - Ides of March
77. Dear Dad - Chuck Berry
78. Built For Speed - Stray Cats
79. I Gotta New Car - Big Boy Groves
80. Buick 59 - Medallions
81. Red Cadillac And A Black Moustache - Bob Luman/Warren Smith
82. Jeepster - T-Rex
83. Rapid Roy - Jim Croce
84. Rev On The Red Line - Foreigner
85. Cadillac Jack - Andre Williams
86. Panama - Van Halen
87. Makin' Thunderbirds - Bob Seger
88. Deuce And A Quarter - All The Kings Men
89. Cars With The Boom - L'Trimm
90. "T" Model Blues - Lightnin' Hopkins
91. My Old Car - Lee Dorsey
92. Black And White Thunderbird - Delicates
93. Don't Worry Baby - Beach Boys
94. Drive It Home - Little Caesar
95. Black Sunshine - White Zombie
96. SS 396 - Paul Revere and the Raiders
97. Car Crazy Cutie - Beach Boys
98. Motoring - Martha and the Vandellas
99. Little Rivi-Airhead - Junior Brown
100. Rusty Chevrolet - Da Yoopers

qbrozen

whose list is that?

No Pedal to the Metal by Kazzer? Come on!

berri

How about jingles? These would be two of Lemko's picks:

Dinah Shore singing "see the USA in your Chevrolet" and then "Let Hertz put you in the driver's seat". Remember back then Hertz featured Impalas's and the commercials had people dropping down into an Impala convertible.

garv214

No "Trans Am" or "I can't drive 55" by Sammy Hagar, or Steve Miller's "Mercury Blues", .... :confuse:

explorerx4

I had that 409 song on a 45. I used like to play it at album speed.

explorerx4

Lemko,
You made me post this

hpmctorque

" There are a quite a few songs about M-Bs."

With English lyrics, other than the one sung by Janis Joplin?

Congratulations on that extensive list!

berri

I can still hear Janis Joplin belting out "oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz".

fezo

Love that list. Some ones I was pleasantly surprised to see - likeOne Piece at a Time - an absolute classic and Beep Beep which I feared had faded from memory after all those years. "Hey, buddy, how do I get this thing out of second gear?"

fezo

I doubt very much anybody will be writing songs about a Prius

Damn. A challenge....

hpmctorque

Note that lemko's list is all about old cars. Between today's cars being so generiic, and so few buyers being brand conscious, I doubt if there will be many car songs in the future. Oh, maybe something about a celebrity's gold plated Rolls, or someone's special Ferrari or Lamborghini might be put to song, but young people have too many things besides cars to be excited about now. I think heavier traffic and stricter enforcement play a role too.

explorerx4

For the Prius, you can work on a variation of "Beep Beep'... 'Geek Geek'...:)

explorerx4

'I can't drive 55', one of my favorites. In the future, I guess it will change to 'I can't MPG 55'.

andre1969

I vaguely remember a song called "Chicken" by a group called The Cheers. It's on an 8-track that has a bunch of old car songs at my grandmother's house. I'd guess it was my uncle's. I think the 8-track in her stereo died back in the early 90's, so I haven't heard it in probably close to 20 years.

It's kind of a morbid little tune.

driver100

Good list!
I thought for sure they would leave out Dead Man's Curve, but there it was:
17. Dead Man's Curve - Jan & Dean

lemko

...but I used to crank up "Love Shack" by the B-52s when I had my 1985 Chrysler Fifth Avenue.

Mr_Shiftright

Well *any* car is going to spin if you slam on the brakes in a hard turn at high speed---that's a fool's move and hardly a Porsche problem by itself.

Yep the 348 was a truck engine and so too the 409. They blew up a lot when revved too high, as I recall.