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I agree it should be restored... but not at that starting price.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The negative battery cable had bee getting a bit iffy, and last year I bought a new one, but never bothered to install it, because the current one didn't get iffy enough, I guess. Well, I put the new one on, hoping that would cure it, but nope. So, I pushed it into the garage as far as I could, thankfully not throwing out my back. Then I used my Catalina, with one of the DeSoto's old tires as a cushion, to push it the rest of the way (getting it over the lip from the gravel driveway onto the concrete slab can be a real be-atch).
A coupe hours later, i came out and tried it, and the damn thing fired right up. A few times since then, I've tried it, and if it's cold, it'll fire right up, but let it run long enough to warm up, turn it off, and it won't re-start until it cools.
Tonight, I tried to start it, and there was a spark from the positive side terminal. I had the hood up, so I could see it. Then, the interior lights went dead. I loosened the positive cable, re-tightened, and it started right up. I drove it around the "block", about 3 1/2 miles. Parked it back in the garage, turned it off, and tried to re-start. Nothing but clicks. So, I swapped its battery with the battery from my '85 Silverado, to see if the problem was the battery. But, nope. The Silverado fired right up, and the LeMans just clicked.
After about an hour though, I went out and tried the LeMans, and it started right up. So, it seems fine if it starts cold, but refuses to start when hot. Any idea what that could be? Could it be the starter getting weak? I can tell from the sound it makes when cranking it, that the starter seems weaker than the one in my '67 Catalina. And, my '67 Catalina gets a bit cranky when trying to start it hot, although I can always depend on it, at least, to start. Or, if not the starter, any other ideas on what it might be?
That sounds like a connection problem to me. I had one where the cable coming off the positive terminal looked fine, was clamped down tight on the battery terminal, but still had intermittent starting. Turned out the crimp where the cable came into the clamp was not done right and the wire had developed some corrosion inside the clamp.
Replacing the positive battery lead fixed this problem.
Just for some sadomasochistic kicks, I drove the LeMans to work this morning. Fired up just fine and got me to work with no issues. I turned it off in the parking lot, but didn't bother to try re-starting. Came out at lunchtime to drive it back home. Again, started just fine, got me home. Parked it in the garage, turned it off, and then tried to re-start, and sure enough, click.
I guess I should consider myself fortunate that it decided until I got home last thursday to start acting up. It could have died during lunch that day, when I went on my beer run. Which would have made it the second time it died in front of a liquor store!
At the time, I was driving a '79 Pontiac Sunbird (2.5L Iron Duke, 4 speed manual). I was living in Phoenix, so hot weather was the order of the day for about 6-7 months of the year.
I had the exact same problem Andre is describing --- would start fine when cold, but if I'd driven it at all, then tried to start it again, nothing. Click.
I don't think I ever was able to figure out what the problem was --- or maybe it was the starter.
Yep, and my Catalina does it, as well, to a lesser degree. However, the Catalina will usually only do it in hotter weather. On a hot start, I can hear it give one quick growl, then a pause, then a couple more cranks and it fires right up. If the battery's getting weak though, it'll sometimes simply refuse to start until it's cooled down.
And to its credit, I've had the Catalina 18 years now with the same starter (I'm sure it was replaced at some point in its life though) and it hasn't gotten any worse.
So, maybe the LeMans's starter is just further along in its decay than the Catalina? Back in 2009 the LeMans had been getting real bad in hot weather, until it finally died one scorching afternoon at the liquor store. I let it sit about 4 hours, came back after dark, and while the weather was still stifling even then, the car fired right up.
The mechanic said that part of the problem was the distributor was messed up and way over-advanced to compensate. I remember him saying the number "54 degrees". So, he replaced the distributor, intake manifold, and a bunch of other junk, and it seemed to run fine afterwards. Much better starting, both cold and hot. He never could get the fast idle to work though, but another mechanic was able to fix that for me about two years ago. So now, it still starts up great when cold. But, when hot, it just clicks.
I'm probably going to wuss out and just take it to the mechanic and have him check the starter. I know I could probably replace it myself (I've done it on a '69 Bonneville at least), but these days I'm just paranoid about jacking up a car and climbing under it! :surprise:
Oh, and I do have a confession to make. Way back in 2005, soon after I bought the car, the mechanic said the starter was getting weak. So, I guess I've had this coming for awhile now. I just figured I'd put it off, since it never seemed to get any worse.
In the past, when I've had starters fail, they'd fail completely....no start at all, hot or cold. So, this "partial" failure is a new thing to me I guess.
I wonder if there's any kind of heat shield you can get for the starter? I even remember my Dad saying about how Pontiac engines could get cranky with respect to the starter, so yeah, I guess it's a fairly common problem.
Another thing I was wondering...those insulated blanket thingies they put around car batteries these days. I wonder if one of those would help out my LeMans any? I'm sure all that under-hood heat cooking the battery isn't exactly helpful, either!
That's funny, andre, because my starter experience is the exact opposite! I've never had one completely fail. Most typically, at least for my old rigs (van and trucks), they do exactly as yours is doing: Start fine when cold, but start hard when hot or not at all (just clicks). Naturally, a jump does nothing to help. Time, however, is the ace. Sometimes the hammer tap trick works to free it, too (reluctantly).
Car was looking decent today - doesn't seem to be aging on the outside anyway:
Intermittent miss/sputter/misfire at some speeds around 20-30, I think the idle speed is set a little high, which weirdly impacts how the car runs at any speed below about 50. Easy adjustment when I drive again.
It's done this before, usually can be adjusted out. Last time the car was in the shop, I was told the cold start system is starting to wear out, too - that could be involved.
The car has developed typical intermittent cold start system issue - it would start and run beautifully when cold, but get lumpy when warm. So I changed some settings and made it so it is a little lumpier when cold, but smooth when warm - but a very slightly fast idle. Maybe I should change it back with the cooling weather. Like many old cars, it likes cooler weather more than hot.
The electronic ignition was a great investment. Cleaning/changing points was tiresome, and the car was becoming finicky in damp weather. Since the upgrade, virtually no similar problems, and none of that high maintenance.
I'm pretty sure my dad switched over to EI on his '70 Chevy pickup.
Total bill came out to about $334. Now hopefully, the old beast still has a few good years left. And at least I don't have to worry anymore about giving the Pinto and Falcon/Mustang a run for their money as "Firetrap of the Year"! :surprise:
Oh, yeah, they also had a '71 or '72 Cutlass 4-4-2 convertible in the shop. Kind of an oddly-equipped beast, with a bench seat and column shift, but power windows. It had been restored, and the red paint was smoother than you'd see on any production car built today. Unfortunately, it was also modded. Had some Chevy big-block crate motor under the hood, and it was mated to a THM700-R4 transmission. Apparently, that engine was stressing out the transmission, so the shop was planning on putting a proper THM400 in there, and then changing the axle ratio to something a bit taller, so it wasn't over-revving at highway speeds.
My '76 LeMans is in the shop now, awaiting diagnosis on its starter. It started up just fine after sitting about 11 days, and got me out to the shop without incident, to pick up the 5th Ave. But, true to form, once I parked it and turned it off, it wouldn't re-start. The way the mechanic explained it, he said that sometimes the splines in the output shaft will expand when hot, so it won't start, but will contract back to natural form when cool. Or, something like that...
As long as the car is not some low-production and historically significant model, I see no harm in building the car to go faster, handle better and be safer.
As long as that '71 wasn't a genuine W30 or a Hurst Olds, no harm done.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/3388290511.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
On that subject, I've thought about talking to the mechanic about putting a slightly quicker rear end in my LeMans. Right now it has the suck-tastic 2.41:1. Now I don't need some musclecar ratio, but I wonder if something around 2.73 or 2.9X:1 would be a good, middle-of-the-road way to go?
As it is now, the car's fairly slow from 0-60, but at higher speeds, it's quick to downshift and highway passing's not bad. It has a Pontiac 350-4bbl. 165 hp according to Consumer Guide's auto encyclopedia, 175 according to the 1976 edition of MOTOR's Repair Manual, so I dunno who's right.
I did a similar thing with my '68 Dart back in 1997, although mine was a bit more complicated. It had a 7 1/4 rear on it with a 2.76:1 axle. I got an 8 3/4 rear, which is what was normally used in V-8 intermediates, full-sized cars, musclecars, etc, but somewhat hard to find in the narrower A-body width.
Managed to do it myself for the most part, although the brake lines on it were rusted, so I took it to the mechanic first, to have them replaced. I think I also had to buy new, larger U-bolts or shackles or whatever it is that attaches the axle housing to the leaf spring, as the 8 3/4 was a larger diameter. And then, I discovered once it went on, that the 8 3/4 rear used a shorter driveshaft than the 7 1/4. Luckily, the local junkyard had one and sold it to me for 50 bucks.
This 8 3/4 only had a 2.76:1 axle as well, but on the 8 3/4 it's supposedly a LOT easier to change the gears. Someone gave me a gearset for it... a 3.55 Sure-Grip, IIRC. Never got around to putting it in. That Dart has been gone for about 3 years now, but that gearset is still in my grandmother's garage, somewhere...
As for axle ratios on the '73-77 GM intermediate, I know there was a 3.23:1 that was used on the "1977.5" Pontiac Can Am. Dunno if there was a 2.9X offered, but I think 2.73:1 was a common V-8 ratio, until they started putting in 2.56:1 and 2.41:1's in a lame attempt to boost fuel economy.
My '57 DeSoto has a 3.31:1 axle. And while it's been awhile since that car has even run, let alone seen highway speeds, I don't remember it screaming all that bad at highway speeds. My '89 Gran Fury ex copcar had a 2.94:1, and it didn't seem bad either...it actually hit 20 mpg once or twice on a road trip.
In the long run, it's probably not worth it to swap the axle on the LeMans. While it might make it a little more fun to drive, it's actually not *that* horrible right now. And I probably don't even go 1,000 miles per year with it. I used to take the LeMans to Carlisle for the GM show, and hit some of the local shows, but since I got the Catalina road-worthy, I've mainly been using it.
Can't decide if you should do the Lemans (the logical choice), or the cop car NYer, which you can keep bone stock on the outside.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I like the idea of a true sleeper, so the New Yorker would get my vote.
How nice of us to be spending Andre's money; ideally, he'll get the DeSoto running first before doing anything else.
Do they make Pontiac crate motors? Another reason I'd hesitate to do a build-up of the LeMans is that I'd still want to keep it all Pontiac, so I wouldn't want a Chevy crate engine in there. With Chrysler it's different because they started going to corporate engines way back in 1958, when the B-block 350/361 came out. So, putting a crate 360 in there wouldn't bother me in the least, but putting a Chevy crate motor in the LeMans would feel like bastardizing it somehow...if that makes sense?
But then, maybe I'm making too big of a deal out of it. If my LeMans had been a '77, it would've ended up with an Olds 350 rather than the Pontiac, as it was originally a California/high altitude car, and for '77 the Pontiac engines couldn't meet those stricter emissions requirements.
But yeah, at this point, I'm not doing anything off-the-wall with any of the cars until the DeSoto is road-worthy. Oh, and the Ram's loan is paid off.
It is one thing to upgrade to disk brakes, change the rear end, maybe even add an overdrive automatic trans - but putting a Chevy engine in an Olds (or a Pontiac or Buick) of that vintage is a hack job, nothing else, and I don't care how well the swap is done, the car is instantly devalued. That is what flippers do when they can't be bothered to have the proper engine rebuilt and just want to fool some kid into parting with his hard-earned money. Bolt on some chrome valve covers and a Moroso air cleaner while they're at it. To the marque community it is virtually defamation of the car and its heritage. And the value of the car is significantly reduced.
The resto-mod craze is a very negative thing for the collector car hobby.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
What makes most domestic cars valuable (in most cases) is the size of the engine. So if the old car didn't have a powerful engine to begin with, there's little harm in making a 1967 Camaro 6 cylinder automatic into a 350 tire-shredder.
If you look at the value of say early 50s American cars, which has more value---a stock '51 Ford or a period hot-rod/custom. Easily the custom/rod does, because it has been given character.
Having said all that, I do agree with you that it's sometimes not a good idea to switch engines from one automaker to another. No reason to do so really, unless you're throwing out an old flathead or some wheezer 6 cylinder.
I think it's time to replace the battery, bought the current one in Sept 06.
Dealer has 2 choices, 84 month for $90(same as I paid for the one that's in there now) and $110 for a 100 month.
As long as the 84 month has the same cranking power as the 100, I'll just save the $20.
I'm expecting to drive the 02 Explorer all winter so I can keep the miles off my 11 'Beauty Queen' Explorer.
Huh - my '06 ION is still on its original battery after 77 months, 80K miles and 6 Colorado winters. Nary a problem getting it to start even in the coldest of weather.
And, it lives outside.
I think the battery in the Silverado is 6/08. Both of them still start really well, although one night my roommate drove the Silverado and left the lights on, so he needed a jump. Not the battery's fault, though!
I'd imagine my old cars, which can be cranky to start and often sit awhile, are pretty rough on a battery.
Fintail used to eat em every 5 years like clockwork, current one is nearly 6 years old. Now that I have said this, neither will start the next time I try.
Climate matters, too. Very hot climates eat batteries. Also the car matters--some automakers put the battery close to the turbo---well, that's not too cool.
As an old Saab 900 turbo owner, I know from cooked batteries!
I was actually in the process of engineering a battery box in the trunk (kinda tight with the convertible top in the down position) when multiple other issues emerged and distracted me.
I really liked that Saab but it was merciless in throwing problems at me. Maybe I just got a bad one---well, 3 of them actually. Maybe they were "too used-used cars"?
Lowest temp I have seen on the display is -10 and the highest 105.
It also has to turn over a 4.6 liter V8 and support a lot of other memory features that were not available on a Saturn.
I'm ok with 74 months of battery life, but would be happier with 77.
I have to point out that the battery had not failed, it just seemed weak and I did not want to get caught out with it not being able to start.
http://fairbanks.craigslist.org/cto/3408376611.html