Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

srs_49

Battery life varies

Yep, that says it all.

Had to replace the battery in my wife's 2007 Grand Caravan after 4 years, but the one on my 2005 Dakota truck still seems to be going strong after almost 8 years.

In my '92 Sentra SE-R (which I got rid of a couple of months ago), I only put one battery in it over the course of 20 years!

All these vehicles were kept in Maryland, so hot summers and cold winters (at times). Not like So Cal :P .

Mr_Shiftright

He's asking Pebble Beach money for the SM but it's really only perhaps a #3 car from the photos. I thinking $9000 to $12000 is all the money here---and being in Alaska sure doesn't help the sale. If it ran beautifully and if I'm correct as to condition, and if I were a Citroen lover that had to have one, I'd offer about $8500 for it.

xwesx

That's about what I was thinking. The first thing that doesn't inspire confidence is the location of the photos. I'm not seeing anything there that makes me thing this car is garage-kept. As far as wear and tear, that makes a big difference in the frozen north. From the location the seller indicated on his post, I'd say that car cannot be more than a mile from my house as the crow (raven) flies, and I don't know many cabins with garages!

That said, it does have historical plates on it, which means he can't drive it much, so maybe that's irrelevant in terms of winter use.

Second, I wouldn't be surprised if that is the only running SM in the entire state, but that doesn't mean there is more than one person interested in owning one, either. I doubt he's going to have much of an audience for that car locally. He might get 8 (or 9, if folks are feeling spunky) if he sells it to an outside buyer through eBay. $16,500 means he really wants to keep it, but his wife is pressuring him. :P

Mr_Shiftright

shipping from Alaska to the lower 48 is pricey as well. And really who buys an SM on the blind?

fintail

Down to about "sole survivor" status, no doubt

I didn't know this could be had with a manual

toomanyfumes

That Renault is definitely "so ugly it's cool." I've called a few dealers when you have to call for mileage. I've never been pleasantly surprised.

stickguy

agreed about the Toyota. I am used to seeing "call for price" (a nice warning to not bother to call!) but have never seen call for miles!

I do like that car though. And yes Fin, that generation Camry (4 door also) came in a manual. Just a rare bird.

if the miles are not obscene, could be a good deal. I could live with it. Just missing the moonroof.

fintail

I think I have even seen an 02+ Camry with a manual, but never a Solara. I bet that one is 200K or more, it's old enough now. I see a dent in the door too.

qbrozen

I like that Renault

omarman

If you click this link to a BAT comments page, there's a post near the bottom from "Bob in Seattle." Same "Bob" as the seller of the craigslist R16 maybe? Had to laugh at the last pic with Renault facing Bogart..."I'm shocked. Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here." :shades:

fintail

Wow, good catch - has to be, as there can't be too many R16s owned by Bobs anywhere.

tjc78

In another forum I frequent I am trying my best to talk someone out of a mistake.

They want to purchase an 82 Lincoln Mark VI Bill Blass. It has a reconstructed title, a hacked engine harness, doesn't currently run, needs tires (20 years old) and the interior needs help.

They are going to pay 1050 for it. I told them to move on and save up for something in better shape (naturally costing more money).

I posted this example Mark VI and am explaining that for $3500 you could never get the other one to this level.

I can't be wrong on this can I?

Here are the pics of the one he wants:

xwesx

Opinion from the experts

That's not me, but (as difficult as it is to say this), aside from me liking the color scheme on the car he wants better, the short answer is that there's no way in hell he can get that car to the level of the other one for $2500.

If he buys that car, it will a labor of love that will likely not end as envisioned (by him) for either him or the car. That said, it wouldn't be the only one out there (hey, stop pointing at me!), so I wish him the best of luck with his decision, whatever it may be.

andre1969

The only defense I could think of for a car like that is if your friends like that particular style of car, but just want something cheap to ride around in, and not cry too much over it if it gets beat up. I sort of liken it to my $900 5th Ave and $500 New Yorker. As much as I love the Mopar R-bodies, I'm not sure I want to find the nicest example in the world, as I want something I can drive to work when I want, park it in DC (if I can find a spot for it to fit!), and not worry too much if it has to sit out in the weather (even though I keep the $900 one garaged)

However, the fact that this car doesn't run, and has issues with the title would scare me away. I'm sure there are nicer examples out there if you just want something to beat around in. Heck, I saw a Mark VI the other week at the grocery store parking lot, and it looked to be in much better shape than that one, with the exception of a rust hole in the bumper.

I could see buying this car if you already had a nice Mark VI, and wanted something as a potential parts car. And, could get it for maybe $400-500 (or less) Provided the sheetmetal's still sound, it could be a donor car if something ever happened to your prized possession. As long as whatever happens isn't so severe that it totals your prized possession, that is!

But otherwise yeah, I think I'd go for that running $3500 eBay example before I'd jump on this one. Unless your friend is really handy with cars, and is looking for a labor of love!

texases

The only way his car is worth $1050 is if the junkyard is offering $1500. No way to know if he can get it running, no way to know all the other problems at the root of the title issues, RUN AWAY...

tjc78

Well, he is getting beat up from all the others on the board and I've said my peace on it. I just wanted to post up here to make sure I wasn't nuts!

If it was someone I knew personally I may have beat him over the head a few times to knock some sense in!

stickguy

on a car that old and cheap the title would not bother me (assuming it checked out physically), but the wiring harness certainly would.

Mr_Shiftright

These cars have not budged in value in 4 years---they are dead in the water.

With a maximum potential value for a show car of about $12,500, it's obvious that this car will be a very poor "investment".

On the other hand, if someone wants to buy it as a cheap learning experience, and can control the amount of money they put into it, I see no problem with tearing the car apart, and even, through mistakes, ruining it, in order to learn something.

stickguy

I have that on my "things to do if I ever get to retire" list. Find a cheap car, and take the whole thing apart, and play with it in the garage.

I have no expectation that I would ever get it back together again (certainly not running and without some parts left over!) but it would be a fun learning exercise.

Then I can work up to building a kit car...

tjc78

Well, it appears he is buying it. Hopefully it will work out for him. I guess if he doesn't spend too much cash on it and can get it running and driving it won't be too bad. OTOH it could just be a giant money pit.

Mr_Shiftright

He'll just have to know when to hold it or fold it---it's the kind of car where it would be easy to throw good money after bad.

andre1969

He'll just have to know when to hold it or fold it---it's the kind of car where it would be easy to throw good money after bad.

I was afraid I'd have to make the hold it or fold it decision this past summer, when my '79 5th Ave started leaking fuel. The first time it did it was on a really hot day, parked on a hill, with an almost full tank, so I initially thought it was just some kind of pressure build up.

But then, it did it one day when parked in my driveway...still a slope, and again an almost full tank, but a much cooler day. And when I took off the gas cap to relieve the pressure, it kept leaking.

I had this horrible mental image of the tank and the filler neck being shot, and the mechanic finding all sorts or rust back there as he tore deeper into it.

But, thankfully, all it needed was a new gasket, where the filler neck goes into the tank. He also replaced a few hoses that he said were OEM. Adjusted the back brakes, and did an oil change, and for about $300 I was back on the road again.

stickguy

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/3491005351.html

fintail

Fun article about some rarities discovered in Cuba...most pretty far beyond the project car stage, sadly

andre1969

I like it, but seems a bit rough for $3500. Plus, it's a base model. Almost seems weird, seeing a luxury car with a vinyl interior! But, considering that even today, you can get a Benz with "MB-tex", and a BMW with whatever they call their version, maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on it.

There's something about the vinyl Buick used in that era that I didn't like though. It had a sturdy, durable look to it (despite that rip in the seat), but just something about the texture, made me think of that stuff they used to cover the seats in school buses and police cars.

Still, I like it. You don't see the 2-door hardtops very often anymore, it seems.

tjc78

I guess I don't know the market well, because if it drives out nice I thought 3500 was a decent price.

Mr_Shiftright

needs paint, so that ain't cheap.

fintail

Probably takes more paint than the average house :shades:

andre1969

I might be a bit out of touch as well, but to me, a car like that is all about hedonism. So that means the most luxurious, pimpy versions will command the premium price. So, if it was a Limited model, or the Park Avenue, which I think came out in 1975 or 1976, I think it would fetch a bit more.

But, in the condition it's in, I think I'd be willing to pay $1500-2000 for it.

Personally, I put a bit more premium on it because it's still a true 2-door hardtop, at least. Once upon a time, the hardtop was the "premium" model, but once you got into the 70's, in luxury cars at least, often the hardtop was the base model, and the "premium" model had a landau roof.

And, in the case of the Chrysler New Yorker at least, the cut corners so badly that if you got the optional landau roof, they actually left the roll-down mechanism and window motor in place, but simply removed the switches for it, as they added on all that padded crap.

The last year you could get a true hardtop coupe in the GM C-body was 1974, and that year they started offering the landau roof as an option. For 175-75, the landau roof was the only choice, if you wanted a coupe.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree--I'd appraise it at about $1800 tops.

omarman

A good re-paint for an old car probably is about the same cost to paint an average sized ranch home. I like old Detroit iron but the labor costs for shiny paint and trim make the choices clearer. I'd pass on a "collectible" car that would have to wear its patina right down to rust just because the math doesn't work to save it.

fintail

I think a decent quality paint job is still going to run a minimum of 4K or so - one big reason my old car isn't going to get one unless I come into a gigantic pile of money. For a lot of old cars, that's a huge portion of the value of the car, if not all of it.

andre1969

Oops...I just saw the typo in my previous message...meant to say "from 1975-76", don't know why it came out "175-75". But, I guess y'all figured out what I meant.

Anyway, I wonder why the seller didn't bother to at least vacuum the car out? I think something minor like that would go a long way toward making it more presentable...even with the rip in the seat!

andre1969

Yeah, that's one reason why a paint job isn't in the near future for any of my old cars anytime soon. My '76 LeMans has mis-matched paint, and it's not the original color, but it doesn't look that bad, for a car that cost me $3,000. I'd guess the nicest 1976 LeMans in the world might be worth $10,000 at best. And, spending $4,000 on a paint job is NOT going to make mine the nicest one in the world! All it would do is make me suddenly worry about every little nick and scratch.

My '67 Catalina convertible has what the seller described as "a $500 paint job", but that was back in 1994, so adjusting for inflation, I guess that would come out to around $800 today. Still, a cheapo job. But, its pale, creamy yellow color is very forgiving, so it's not too bad looking.

As for my two R-bodies, well, the 5th Ave cost me $900, while the base NY'er was all of $500. Other than nicks and scratches here and there, and a spot or two where it was touched up, it's not bad looking. Still nice and shiny. And the $500 one still shines up fairly well, except for the trunk and one door, that look like they were repainted at some point. And again, it doesn't make financial sense to put a ton of money into a nice paint job.

Unless, like you said, a huge pile of money suddenly came into the picture!

omarman

Never thought of it before but building your garage was a better investment than a full paint/body resto on each car in your collection. It keeps your cars out of the elements, raised the value of your property and maybe even capped the size of your collection due to limited space!

Back in the 70s, a friend of mine built a new house but kept on driving his 7 y/o Opel Kadett. Looked funny to see that scruffy little car parked in the garage. But after walking through the rest of the house you could tell that he was putting his money in the right place. :shades:

andre1969

I wonder what it would cost, on average, to rent an indoor storage space for a car? I estimate that I've got about $30,000 sunk into my garage, and at this point I've had use of it for about 80 months. They broke ground on it in late summer of 2005, but the floor wasn't poured and finished and ready to park on until April of 2006.

So, for a 4-car garage, it amortizes out to about $375 per month at this point, or about $93.75 per month per car. And, for every month that goes by, it gets a little cheaper.

fintail

Patina is seen as a positive thing these days, too - maybe a side effect of the new economy where dumping a rotisserie restoration on everything is simply not doable. That makes keeping old cars original not so bad.

Your Catalina looks pretty good in the photos you have shown. Then again, so does my car, and the paint on it is pretty weak. But, it's an old car, old paint should be expected. And as you say, less to worry about.

Old car should get tires in the new year, as the old ones date from when Clinton was in office. Brakes maybe too, if they are needed. I have an easier time doing stuff like that than paint. I want to drive it, not take it to a concours - that'd take another 40K thrown into the fire.

fintail

That's about the average price around here. I pay $75/month to park the fintail. If my building had an empty space, it would be $100, and some buildings charge $150. But this is a higher income area too.

fintail

Has to be one of the best left, and as a bonus you'll be blacklisted from whatever towing plan you've joined

hpmctorque

"...Unless a huge pile of money suddenly came into the picture!"

Okay, suppose your great uncle - you know, the weirdo loner that your family rarely mentioned, the one who took off for Australia in his youth and made millions in sheep ranching and mining; yeah, that one - died and left you a couple of mill (after taxes, of course). Would you then really spend several thousand to have your old car(s) repainted?

hpmctorque

RWD?

fintail

If I inherited a healthy seven figures net, I would have the fintail restored. It has enough needs that once they were all rooted out, might as well do it right. I doubt I would have many other cars even with that money, and it would be fun to have something to wow people with at shows. I'd also take it to Europe and drive it around the 'ring :shades:

fintail

Viva Auto Sales in Burnaby might be known to make a mistake here and there.

I wonder how often that thing would break.

hpmctorque

I certainly wouldn't plan any cross country trips with that car.

hpmctorque

I guess with a bulging wallet you could comfortably let your emotional attachment to your fintail overrule the rational calculus.

ab348

In the kind of situation you describe, first priorities would be a new residence and helping some other people. But then, I suspect the number of old cars would not be very big - maybe a couple, but if you are going to be driving much, modern cars are so much better.

fintail

I figure, I can sink 40-50K into it and get what I want, then if I needed to sell, could get maybe half that for it - in Germany. There are worse investments.

omarman

Here's a faster way to turn $40k into $20k. Buy this original-looking 1971 Z28 now and then sell it for market price tomorrow! In the early 70s my mom's kitchen had an oven and refrigerator which matched that green Camaro interior.

toomanyfumes

Pretty cool it's still the original owner. After owning one F-body ('76 Trans-Am with the 455 4-Speed), I'm not eager to own another. Fun car, but really crappy build quality, especially the interior.

lemko

Geeze, I have my 1989 Cadillac Brougham restored to a level that would make a brand-new Rolls-Royce Phantom look like a 25 year-old Hyundai Excel that spent it's entire lifetime in Philly's worst neighborhood.