Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

I mean, working on something simpler and with all that luxurious room to actually get your hands around things is so much more enjoyable than dealing with tightly packed engine bays full of wires and harnesses.

You would think that, but in my case at least, some of my cars are from that era that many people would rather forget, with the crude electronics and emissions controls of the time. My '76 LeMans, for example, really isn't all that easy to work on IMO. The engine bay is pretty cramped for a car that size, and there are hoses everywhere. And worse, the hood doesn't open all that wide. A few years ago, the mechanic actually took the latch for the release off because he kept banging his head on it! And then, he forgot to put it back on! I got a phone call from him a day or two later and he said, nonchalantly, "come get your hood release". This was the secondary release, so at least it was redundant and there was no danger of the hood flying open. Unless the primary one failed, I guess...

And, when you go back far enough, some of those old cars, like my '57 DeSoto, are a bit complicated in their own way. For instance, the rear brakes that you need a wheel puller to get the drums off of, the parking brake that clamps down on the driveshaft rather than the rear brakes. The front brakes that have two cylinders per wheel instead of one. The Hemi engine with the spark plugs that are a pain to get to. The tiny master cylinder that's buried under the brake booster. Freeze plugs in the back of the engine that are so hard to get to, that mechanics often cut a hole in the firewall to get to them, and then just plugged up the hole, and so on.

I think a lot of stuff in modern cars is pretty much just unplug, throw away, and replace. So they're a lot more complex in some ways, but simpler in others.

texases

What a mutt..." It is a 2.1 n/a 4 cylinder"
?? What happened to the 2.5l engine it came with? Is the 2.1 the 924 engine?

qbrozen

The late 70s cars certainly have their own set of challenges. All the emissions garbage from that era that seems to have often been slapped on with no regard can be a PITA if you are going for originality. For the couple that I've had, we never had an issue just scrapping alot of that crap and still passing emissions inspection. Go figure.

fintail

Lucky for me, too. I was debating how the car would be extricated from its spot, if I could talk a mechanic I know to doing an on-site visit. I think there's a problem with where the cable attaches to the brake, or the brake mechanism itself - as the brake pull/lever feels fine.

There are two indy MB shops within a mile of where I park the fintail who have no fear of the old car. There are a few old MBs still hanging around this area, so experienced mechanics have dealt with them before. An indy suspension shop also had no qualms with doing the little work the car needed earlier this year, along with receiving and installing the tires.

For the car being easy to work on - it has a fairly compact I6 in a big engine bay, so there's a lot of room, but it is also fuel injected, and to me anyway, the system is somewhat intimidating with tons of plumbing and weird parts.

lemmer

I wondered the same. If they really did put in an old 924 engine, just crush it. Let it die.

tjc78

From what I understand most of that emissions stuff (smog pumps, etc) was really only to warm up the catalytic converters. Once the engine was as operating temp it did nothing.

texases

There were lots of that stuff before the cats appeared. What a pain. And it started pretty early, 1970 on has ever increasing amounts of it.

fortee9er

Here is one for the vintage MB fans. I found three of these two door hardtops in the last two weeks.
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4148653082.html

Mr_Shiftright

crazy money, not a chance. This is a $1000 parts car. The 220SE coupes aren't worth that much even in nice condition. This rust bucket would cost you $75,000 + to restore, for which you'd be lucky to get $30K on a good day.

fintail

You beat me to it. I'd rather restore a fintail, at least they are rarer or seem so nowadays.

There are a lot of neglected 111 coupes out there, as restoration prices are so high, yet values are low. Definitely unreclaimable. The wood alone will set you back 5K+.

Mr_Shiftright

Did I say $1000?---excuse me---make that $500.

fintail

You were being generous, it is rusty. It's a trim pieces donor now.

lemko

The parts for my ride FINALLY got to the body shop last night. I'll be going back Monday morning.

xwesx

Any of you project car experts want to take a stab at this one?

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1d806b/5#MSG5

Mr_Shiftright

Need way more info on this one to make any kind of intelligent guess. I would say that if it's just a run of the mill stripped down Legacy, then it's totaled, so junkyard prices for that. But you know, a fancy wagon with some options could still be worth some money. We don't even know the miles and of course high mileage 2.5L Subaru engines are scary.

xwesx

Yeah, I started to reply, and then I thought better of it. I didn't realize just how bad the description provided by the OP was until Q posted. :sick:

lemko

My 1989 Cadillac Brougham wearing "donut" spare in lieu of left front tire.


Lower rear corner of left front fender caved-in from flying debris.


Shredded tire in trunk of car.


Inner wheel housing wiped-out from flying debris.

The car was taken to the body shop yesterday morning to commence repairs.

tjc78

Ouch, what a shame. Is this the first paint/body work? If so I'm sure that makes it even worse.

lemko

Unfortunately it is. That is original paint on that car!:(

Mr_Shiftright

What do you figure? About 1,000 bucks?

andre1969

Keep up that pace Lemko, and your Brougham will look right at home next to the typical ghetto-Brougham that I still see plying the streets of DC! :P Actually, I saw three of them just on Saturday when I was in DC, and they were all pretty ratted-out.

Hope the body shop does a good job getting your car fixed, and gets it looking good as new!

fintail

Ouch! That missing inner fender looks painful. I see the width of your whitewall looks kind of unusual too - any luck sourcing new tires?

Years ago, I ran over a piece of rebar - it camouflaged into the road surface perfectly on a dull grey day, and I didn't notice it until it started making noise. It put a little dent on the wheelarch just above the lower chrome trim, and knocked off some undercoating - that annoyed me as the car has virtually complete original undercoating. You can kind of see it in this pic:



Looks worse in person. I think it happened just after I finished school, so I didn't want to spend money on a claim, I just painted over the damage in a barely matching color and moved on.

lemko

See if you can pull some parts off of 'em when you can! :P A neighbor of my Dad just inherited a 1986 Cadillac Fleetwood from his 87 year-old mother from NYC. It turned out to be the FWD C-body though, not a Brougham.

lemko

I'm going to go with the same people from which you got your tires. This one looks the closest to what would be appropriate for my year car. I very much doubt I'll find those Royal Seal tires anymore.

lemko

Insurance company said $1,621, not including the tire. My fear was no parts availability. I have a friend who has a nice 1983 Cadillac DeVille who's always "dooming and glooming" about scarcity of parts because junkyards are crushing these cars rather than saving them. Unfortunately, he is probably right. I was considering just buying a hooptie Brougham just so I could cannibalize it for parts.

andre1969

I have a friend who has a nice 1983 Cadillac DeVille who's always "dooming and glooming" about scarcity of parts because junkyards are crushing these cars rather than saving them.

I'm in pretty much the same boat with my R-bodies. Mechanical stuff is no big deal, but if it came down to R-specific stuff, like a windshield, glass, sheetmetal, trim, interior stuff, etc, I'd be screwed.

I guess my one consolation is that if one of them got wrecked, I could hold onto it as a parts car for the other...provided I did a good enough job hiding it from local housing code enforcement! :P

fintail

Those look nice. The slightly wider whitewall fits the car. I know I've seen higher line American cars of the late 70s-early 80s with a whitewall like that.

fintail

And the nicest unrestored non-running Peugeot 404 in the world is worth...

Mr_Shiftright

Whoa! Home run for the seller, but it is in amazing condition. The 404 is a nice car--it might look like an MG Magnette, but it's not.

I'd give $7000 for something like that.

fintail

I'm curious about the buyer. Even at home, one would be tough to turn a profit, as it needs quite a bit of re-commissioning, which won't be cheap. Maybe sold to an old school rabid fan in New England, where I think a few still reside.

explorerx4

love it or hate it?

omarman

Funny things pop up when I search for "classic" cars on my craigslist.

I like this Malibu "Classic" except for the stupid price and inop A/C.

I might even like this "old school classic" Buick if I could see it.

But then again, "SUMMER IS ALMOST HERE!!!"

Mr_Shiftright

'78 Malibu---well if the seller thinks "$4800" was a "stupid" offer, then the seller should be shopping for a birthday cake to give to his Malibu each and every year it continues to sit in his driveway.

'73 Buick Limited ---get real,, seller. You want over top dollar and you post blurry photos of the car crammed into a garage, along with photos of other people's cars? No interior, no engine shots, no documentation. GEEZ!

79 VW -- nice cell phone shots in a dark garage---good luck with that...asking price is conceivable if it isn't a rat.

Mr_Shiftright

I think that '50 Stude custom is great. I mean, it's not MY style but somebody took what was virtually a low buck old car and made something interesting out of it.

fintail

Malibu does look nice, but a flatbed trailer is never the best place to photograph a supposedly running car. And yeah, he'll keep it for another several years until inflation and age catch up to his price.

lemko

I heard back from the body shop today. They were actually able to save my left front fender, the new inner wheel housing is in place, but the stainless trim they got was awful and they didn't want to put it on the car. They had to send away for new pieces and that's what's holding up the project. They also replaced the filler panel by the license plate that was cracked.

fortee9er

Friends of a friend have a 1966 Griffith 400 that they need to sell to settle a relative's estate. I was asked if I was interested and I said definitely yes but the sellers are not car people and don't have a number in mind (yet). Because of the small number of cars manufactured it is difficult to put a price on it. The story goes that the now deceased owner started dismantling the car for a restoration that never took place. Sometime after the car was dismantled it was flooded and the car was totally submerged. I am sure the drivetrain is ruined, the tubular frame has some rust, and the fiberglass body will need work. The car is about 400 miles from my home so it is not convenient to do an inspection. Based on my description what do you think would be a reasonable offer? If this was any other car I would run away from it but the rarity is very enticing.

stickguy

I would say not charging them for the gas to get there, or asking for help putting it on a trailer, would be more than generous!

actually, I have no idea, but if it is basically scrap, how much would the misc. usable parts be worth?

according to the Haggerty valuation tool, a #1 car is about 45k, and a #4 is 35K. So, a driver quality car is in the 30s. You think you can get from here to there for that money?

Mr_Shiftright

What stickguy said. I second it.

Definitely nothing more than a parts car for a better restoration candidate. The Griffith is, at best, a second or third tier collectible, with a limited audience, and very stagnant values (basically flatlined for the last 5 or 6 years).

Given that you can buy Pebble Beach quality for $80,000, a very sharp show-able car for $60K, and a quite decent driver for $30K, there is simply no way to justify restoring this car.

True, they are rare, but as the saying goes in the car value market: "it has to be rare AND someone has to care". It's not just about supply, but about demand...the 2nd half of the equation.

Preserving just a few of these cars should be more than enough to satisfy automotive history.

If it were a 300SL Gullwing, yeah, but it's a Griffith, so no, no way. Let some other dreamer have it and bear the consequences.

The idea being bandied about by collector car auction companies that since vintage Ferrari, Bugatti, etc vehicles are going through the roof, that ALL old cars will be pulled up---is simply wrong.

Despite graphs showing that "classic cars are good investments", if you look closely, the graphs cherry-pick certain very desirable automobiles, and even among those, only in certain forms and options and provenance.

andre1969

If the first three pics of that Electra Limited, the blurry ones in the garage, are the actual car, then it's a '76 and not a '73.

Dunno if a '76 versus a '73 would make much difference, value wise. Both would have a 455 V-8 and be very well equipped. The '73 would be a true hardtop, whereas the '76 coupe was only offered with a fixed opera window. I'd imagine the 455 was a bit stronger in the '73, and probably used a slightly quicker axle ratio, so it was probably a better performer. About the only advantage I'd see to the '76 would be that the interiors were more luxurious/pimpy, if that's your thing.

Personally I love these big boats, but by this era, I actually prefer the 4-door hardtops for the most part.

Mr_Shiftright

How not to add photos to your truck ad:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4198550020.html

Michaell

Is that truck 10x better than a regular Chevy?

Mr_Shiftright

maybe there's $1800 worth of gold under the seat.

Michaell

No, I was referring to the post title of "Chevy 15000"

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, that's the 15 ton model of course.

explorerx4

Seems like you having a lot of fun looking for that pickup truck.
Kind of strange that they don't mention it's a 4 wheel drive model.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm determined to get the truck I want at the price I want...mid-size/small truck (dakota, ranger, S10, GMC Sonoma, Mazda B series) with automatic and a V6 or V8, AC, extended cab, decent but not pristine of course (a few dings and tiny dents are fine), with a smog certificate in hand, no back fees due, no "just needs a tune up", no "slips a little in drive but not bad", etc etc. and I aim to pay about $3000 bucks. I can clean up a dirty interior and fix electrical glitches and such, or broken lenses and rusty wheels, but no major projects for that price.

lemko

Anybody wanna buy a minor piece of Philadelphia history?

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4126700840.html

Mr_Shiftright

That's a strong price for a few shares of a ferrous oxide mine and some cast iron scrap. I'm sure a dream is now forming in some buyer's head but man, it's a long road home.

fintail

This is umm...different