Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

The '52-54 Fords never did anything for me. I like the '49-51 club coupe (not sure if that's what they called it). The '54 got the Y-block V8 if I remember correctly (maybe not; I'm not a Ford guy generally) and was the first year for the plexiglass top, a sort-of neat feature I think although very rare.

I think the '49-54 Chevys are rather dumpy in styling although I've read they were well screwed-together. In hindsight, I could enjoy a Fleetline (fastback) '49-52 or a station wagon. I remember seeing a fair amount of Chevys of that era when I was a kid--usually somebody's Dad's 'work car' by that time--but I don't believe I even knew they made wagons until I was an adult--I never saw them.

Of the '53 and '54, I like that horizontal grille-bar look of the '54 better.

In about 1962 father bought a '51 Fleetline with Powerglide to use as a work car. It was indeed dumpy, and slow as sap, but it was comfortable to ride in (I was too young to drive at that point) and served him well. One thing I remember about that car was there was a position on the ignition switch where you could pull the key out but could still turn the switch to the on position. That way you didn't have to bother to have the key. Truly a different time.

uplanderguy

Whenever I see that era Plymouth, I always expect to see "Cranbrook" on the front fender. I can remember an old couple (I mean old, old!) that had an old Cranbrook and it was an old car for me to remember it.

explorerx4

Someone at work said next Monday will be the first one we won't wake up to with new snow in 7 weeks.
This winter has been so cold, last month was the first time I can remember not starting the Mustang in February since I have owned it.
It's a 1991. Next week might be the week. Fingers crossed.

uplanderguy

It was minus 5 this morning when I went to get a donut at just before seven this morning. A radio station here said it's been the coldest February overall, in 140 years.

uplanderguy

bhill2, was your Dad's '51 Chevy green by any chance? It seems that every one I remember as a kid was green.

fintail

My grandpa had one of those forgotten 52-54 Fords, maybe a 53? I think he kept it til 58 or so, when it was replaced with a fancier Fairlane. Here it is with dirty whitewalls, my mother looking very 1955, and my uncle looking like a ventriloquist's doll:

berri

I thought the 49 Ford was rather advanced in styling compared to Chevy and Plymouth. It probably saved the company. Although I believe they did have some sort of suspension issue that made them more prone to flipping? (kind of ironic given the earlier Explorer's). Based solely on looks I'd go with the 49-54 Ford products, although personally I liked the 52-54 better. Nothing scientific here by any means, but I seemed to see those 52-54 Ford's forever growing up. They were a common second car around my area and seemed to hold up pretty well, more so than the 49-51. However, GM had some very nice rooflines at the turn of that decade. I could never really get in to the 53/54 Chevy. Thought they looked a bit dowdy for their time. Come '55 though, I thought Ford went too conservative on styling compared to their competitors.

bhill2

uplanderguy said:

bhill2, was your Dad's '51 Chevy green by any chance? It seems that every one I remember as a kid was green.

It was a blue-gray. Were the green ones by any chance 4-doors? His was a 2-door so maybe blue-gray was the official color for those.

andre1969

berri said:

Based solely on looks I'd go with the 49-54 Ford products, although personally I liked the 52-54 better. Nothing scientific here by any means, but I seemed to see those 52-54 Ford's forever growing up. They were a common second car around my area and seemed to hold up pretty well, more so than the 49-51.

IIRC, the '49-51 Fords were very vulnerable to rust. That may have been fixed by '52-54.

ab348

I too remember seeing many more '52-'54 Fords than the earlier models when I was growing up in the '60s. My only firsthand memory is a foggy one - in the mid-60s my aunt and uncle came down from Ontario to visit us and he was driving one. I recall one day we were supposed to go somewhere in it and I was in the middle of the front seat facing an ashtray full of Philip Morris cigarette butts as he tried to start it. It wouldn't go, so neither did we. Probably just as well.

Mr_Shiftright

My experience with old cars tells me that vulnerability to rust isn't about the quality of the metal at all, but rather how the car is constructed. Some cars have "traps" designed into them and develop notorious rust issues in those areas.

uplanderguy

bhill2, almost every one I remember as a kid was a four-door, although there was also a green two-door 'sport coupe' (like a club coupe; prior to Chevy using 'sport coupe' as the name for their two-door hardtops), a '50, sitting alongside an old building in my hometown 'til probably twenty years ago.

Your Dad's was a '51 Fleetline two-door--probably the most-appealing Chevy of that year to my eyes.

berri

My uncle had a 1950 Chevy 4dr sedan he kept for 13 years until he traded it in for a 63 LeSabre. That Chevy was a very reliable car.

lemko

My Dad's first car was a black 1950 Ford coupe. There was a guy in my old neighborhood who had a blue 1950 Ford sedan we kids all thought was cool and a young guy up the street had a blue 1949 Ford coupe back in the early 1970s.

berri

Was that 50 coupe the one that looked like a 4dr without the back doors, or the solid window one which I think may have been called a club coupe?

We had a neighbor up the street who had a used '50 Merc with the suicide doors. I think he had that vehicle until the early 60's sometime. It was his drive to work car. It was black and pretty sharp looking.

uplanderguy

Speaking of Sevilles earlier, here is an older one that is bringing insane (to me personally, anyway) bids on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-Eldorado-Seville-1959-cadillac-eldorado-seville-/331492160063?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d2e78f23f&item=331492160063&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

I love the color and the rarity of the model--I've never seen one in the flesh. I find '59 Caddies to be cartoonish, but I do like how the Fleetwood and Eldorados had the wide lower-body trim and those classy, individual "ELDORADO" letters near the bottom of the front fenders.

My guess (only that) is that the seat cloth inserts are not reproductions of the original.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm not that surprised. The car has a lot going for it in terms of collectibility--it is genuinely rare by American production standards, and it is "iconic", in that the year and shape appears on decals, t-shirts and posters all across America. It's also got a lot of originality, which is the hot ticket these days.

Still I would have predicted more in the low 60Ks. With the reserve not met, the seller should drop reserve and let it go for whatever it's bid to---he's scoring a home run and I hope he realizes it.

ab348

That price shocks me for that car. No '59 Caddy ever came with a vinyl roof, did it? And that seat upholstery is very '80s, not close to the original. Two (at least) very big things I would need to fix and neither is cheap. I wonder what else is messed up.

fintail

Stupid money. Air suspension gone, upholstery is so wrong, nothing looks too pristine . I bet the bids are fake, just trolling the owner to find out the reserve. With so much replaced, I hesitate to call it original, and I'd like to see an expert rule on the originality of the paint. I don't get it.

I swear I have seen a vinyl top on a sedan model, but not a coupe/

berri

Is that really a vinyl top? The lighting in that picture is a bit odd. Might just be a two tone with black roof? Anyone can put a vinyl top on anything I suppose. But I don't recall seeing factory vinyl until around the mid 60's. But being a special, high priced Seville model, perhaps it was available with vinyl (or some Florida retirement community dealer made it a dealer pack )

fintail

Here's a nice one with a vinyl top - guess it was a thing

And another

uplanderguy

The '56 Packard Caribbean had a vinyl top in the hardtop model. It was some material that let water in, meaning a fair amount of that small run of cars have roof rust issues.

The interior of that Seville is disappointing to me, with the '80's-style cloth as ab348 mentions. There's a place in Oregon that supposedly has rolls of about every original (or original-style) domestic upholstery used; in a car like that, why wouldn't you opt for that?

At a big price, I expect big originality. I know pics don't tell the whole story, but if one at Barrett-Jackson of all places brought $55K, this one is causing 'spirited' bidding!

I still like the fact that they are almost never seen--they're rarer than the Biarritz convertible, and I like that.

ab348

I stand corrected - the '59 Cadillac brochure mentions that it has a "fabric-covered roof". Never knew that. Doesn't change my opinion of that car.

Mr_Shiftright

Did you all know that no automobile auction on eBay is legally binding? Just because you see a car "sell" for X dollars, that is no indication that it isn't a 12 year old having himself a good time. You could bid $100,000 on that car and then refuse to pay and there's not a thing anyone can do.

uplanderguy

Yes, but when that happens, you usually see the car listed a week later with a comment about a deadbeat bidder.

Or, the car is offered to the next-highest bidder.

sda

andre1969 said:

I wonder...did any magazine ever compare a '77 GM B-body to the big, outsized '77 LTD or Gran Fury? I know Consumer Reports made a comment that nobody needed a car bigger than a B-body, so they refused to test those mastodons starting in '77. That year, they put an Impala (or Caprice) up against an LTD-II, a Fury (or Monaco), and a Cutlass Supreme.

Also, around that timeframe, Consumer Reports eliminated the term "midsized" from their lexicon. They grouped cars into either subcompact, compact, or "large". "Compact" included cars like the Nova, Volare, Granada, and Fairmont, but also the newly downsized '78 Malibu and its siblings. "large" included the old school intermediates, as well as the full-sized cars, both downsized and non-downsized.

The last big mastodon test I can recall was either C&D or MT in '76. IIRC, they pitted a Caprice 400, Gran Fury 400, and LTD 460 against each other. I can't remember which one they decreed the winner, as they seemed to waffle on about the pros and cons of each car. Also, IIRC, one of them was a coupe, while the other two were sedans. And I seem to recall that the 460, despite the extra cubes, ran out of breath pretty early. It was a bit quicker than the other two from 0-60, but in quarter mile the other two were catching up.

Dad bought a used 77 Mercury Grand Marquis. Dark metallic brown, brown vinyl roof, brown leather and corduroy seats, deep dish wheels, 460 V-8. It was fairly sharp looking, but even with the 460 it wasn't all that quick. I think it got about 10 mpg around town. Ouch. Dad only kept it a year or so and bought a similar color brown 78 Cadillac Sedan de Ville d'Elegance. It had the weak 135hp(?) 425 V-8 and was even slower than the Mercury, and didn't get much better gas mileage.

hpmctorque

"Dad bought a used 77 Mercury Grand Marquis. Dark metallic brown, brown vinyl roof, brown leather and corduroy seats, deep dish wheels, 460 V-8. It was fairly sharp looking, but even with the 460 it wasn't all that quick. I think it got about 10 mpg around town. Ouch. Dad only kept it a year or so and bought a similar color brown 78 Cadillac Sedan de Ville d'Elegance. It had the weak 135hp(?) 425 V-8 and was even slower than the Mercury, and didn't get much better gas mileage."

Why did he sell the Grand Marquis? Was the de Ville more satisfying for him, overall?

fintail

Took my project car on an ~80 mile drive today, 90%+ of it highway - didn't miss a beat. Mostly cruised along at 60 or so, but around here, that keeps up with traffic and even passes several people. Warm day, sun makes the adhesive get sticky on the hockey stick tape I use for patching material on my steering wheel cover. I'd like to have a steering wheel refinish as this year's upgrade.

uplanderguy

There's nothing more satisfying than getting an old car out for a stretch I think. I very-much miss being able to do that. Seems to make other people smile too, but you always do come across the folks who look like they go out of their way to not even glance your general direction.

stever

I did a sew-on leather cover for one car and it turned out well.

uplanderguy

Probably an overall function of my age, but this year's Chrysler is my favorite Chrysler. OK, it's not a 300L, but throw whitewalls on this car and I'd be happy. I like the typical sixties color as well. If the car is as represented, I'd pay $7,600 for it all day long.

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2015/03/04/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1965-chrysler-newport/

EDIT: I see it's listed as 'no longer available'. After being featured by Hemmings, I can see why.

Mr_Shiftright

I guess my point was that when we see an extraordinary price on eBay we can't assume it's real and if it is real, we can't see the car to judge if it was indeed a good investment or more like a tragic swindle.

uplanderguy said:

Yes, but when that happens, you usually see the car listed a week later with a comment about a deadbeat bidder.

Or, the car is offered to the next-highest bidder.

lemmer

Speaking of ebay - I "won" this auction last night (I can't link to ebay at work.) The seller hasn't responded yet. The price is a tad light for a nice Boxster S, so I suspect he might back out. I didn't know this, but that is fine with ebay. If you buy a coffee mug on ebay it is a binding contract, but if you are the high bidder on a car, you and the seller are just expressing interest in a transaction.

uplanderguy

I've bought two cars on eBay, daily drivers, both well under what dealers were asking for them. Good luck! I had no trouble with the eBay end of it at all. The one seller was rather a hot-head about my asking very general questions about the car beforehand, but as I told my wife, I don't need to like the seller to buy the car at what was looking to be an excellent price (no reserve and auction ending on a weekday morning). I think you'll be OK.

I have found that both sellers seemed sensitive at the end of the transaction about feedback I'd leave, so I think most sellers wouldn't get away with trying to negate the transaction as most know you'd leave bad feedback and a lot of people I know who buy and sell on eBay are quite in tune with checking out good/bad feedback.

andre1969

I think that '65 Newport is the first Chrysler I really liked since the 1960 models. I really didn't like the slanty-headlight '61-62 models, although nowadays I think they're kinda cool in an odd sort of way. At the time though, I think they would have sent me running to a Pontiac, Olds, or Buick! Or, in '62 at least, maybe a Dodge Custom 880. I also didn't like the odd style of the '63, and that year they all went to the 122" wb. They had a diminutive style to them, that also made them appear small-ish. While it may have been okay for a Newport or 300, it was way to small for a New Yorker, which was supposed to compete with an Electra or Ninety-Eight.

The '65, at least, represented a return to size and status, even if the Newport itself diluted the Chrysler name compared to what had come before. Looks really sharp in that bluish-green color, too. It's interesting how that color seemed so popular around 1965, but just a few years later it was just about gone.

fintail

Even a relatively inexpensive car can provide some enjoyment. My old car gets tons of attention - the color, the fins and chrome, even in that relatively restrained style, make people look. I am always a little nervous about going any distance in the car, but it doesn't seem to mind.

The steering wheel in my car is white, I'd like to have that look. I have seen white leather covers, but installation looks difficult.

That Chrysler looks like a bargain, or should I say, looked - appears to be gone. My grandpa, the one with the old Ford pictured above, had a new 65 Chrysler - great car from what I've heard, superior to the fuselage car that replaced it.

uplanderguy said:

There's nothing more satisfying than getting an old car out for a stretch I think. I very-much miss being able to do that. Seems to make other people smile too, but you always do come across the folks who look like they go out of their way to not even glance your general direction.

andre1969

fintail said:

That Chrysler looks like a bargain, or should I say, looked - appears to be gone. My grandpa, the one with the old Ford pictured above, had a new 65 Chrysler - great car from what I've heard, superior to the fuselage car that replaced it.

I think that was a common theme by the later 60's, where the new generation of cars would be less reliable than what preceded it. Consumer Reports, especially, noted this in their 1965 auto issue. Apparently, quality was a big buzzword in automotive advertising that year, so to be sarcastic, CR would print one brand's slogan, with the number of defects they found in one of their test cars. IIRC, a '65 Catalina fared extremely poorly.

In the long run, many of those '65 models may have been more reliable than earlier models, but CR's test examples were showing up with a lot of sample defects. '65 was also a record year for sales, so the factories may have been pumping the cars out extra fast.

I don't think that trend was *too* bad in the late 60's, but it would get worse in the 70's!

uplanderguy

fintail, one of the most satisfying things I ever did was drive my '63, and later my '66, to South Bend, IN for our club's international meets. One time I was west of Toledo on the Ohio Turnpike in my '63, and I felt someone hanging in the left lane so I looked over and it was like a Chevy Chase movie--a chick in an '80's Firebird with hair blowing in the wind was just smiling at me! LOL ....I had the most fun driving my '66 to the 2012 international meet in South Bend--I took the old state routes through all of Ohio, only getting on an interstate at the Indiana Toll Road. I went through well-kept small towns and lots of country that looked like in the movie "North by Northwest"! My A/C didn't work and you could ring me out like a sponge both when I got to South Bend, and also home, but I left early in the morning each way and it was a very satisfying drive.

With my '63, I prodded a security guard to let me get a picture of my car near the Studebaker final assembly building exit overhead doors, where it would have passed 40-plus years before. The building was some other business then. The guard told me, "Just drive in, get it done, and get it out!". I later found out I was on the side of the building where cars that were loaded on rail cars came out, not ones shipped on trucks or picked up at the plant by the customer as mine had been....duh!

I did learn going there that my fuel gauge on the '66 read about half when it had three gallons left....luckily, I didn't find that out alongside the road somewhere!

As mentioned before, I don't pretend to be a mechanic in the slightest sense of the word, but I got AAA with 200 miles free towing, so I figured, WTH? Driving the '63 out, my wife was behind me in our van; with the '66 she stayed home but it was fine. Fun following the map to see how you're progressing across the countryside.

uplanderguy

I think that '65 Newport is the first Chrysler I really liked since the 1960 models.

Me, too. I think the '63 and '64 Chryslers still have fifties-styling flourishes, like the roundness, big-handwritten nameplates and such. The '65 and '66's are beautiful IMHO. As is usually the case, I like the '65 better as the first year of a design, the details are designed with the car instead of the second year when they were changed for the sake of change.

sda

uplanderguy said:

I think that '65 Newport is the first Chrysler I really liked since the 1960 models.

Me, too. I think the '63 and '64 Chryslers still have fifties-styling flourishes, like the roundness, big-handwritten nameplates and such. The '65 and '66's are beautiful IMHO. As is usually the case, I like the '65 better as the first year of a design, the details are designed with the car instead of the second year when they were changed for the sake of change.

Wasn't it the 65 that had a glass cover over the headlights? I think that was for one year only and thought that was neat thou I've always loved hidden headlights.

sda

hpmctorque said:

"Dad bought a used 77 Mercury Grand Marquis. Dark metallic brown, brown vinyl roof, brown leather and corduroy seats, deep dish wheels, 460 V-8. It was fairly sharp looking, but even with the 460 it wasn't all that quick. I think it got about 10 mpg around town. Ouch. Dad only kept it a year or so and bought a similar color brown 78 Cadillac Sedan de Ville d'Elegance. It had the weak 135hp(?) 425 V-8 and was even slower than the Mercury, and didn't get much better gas mileage."

Why did he sell the Grand Marquis? Was the de Ville more satisfying for him, overall?

I think dad has only bought 3 new cars, always preferring to buy 2-4 yr old cars. The Mercury was 3 years old and had about 45000 miles. After about a year the transmission started acting up. He didn't want to repair it so he traded it for the Cadillac. To his chagrin about 3 months after buying the Cadillac the transmission had a sudden failure, which dad had no choice but to repair. He took a fancy to a 79 Eldorado diesel and traded for it. That was his last Cadiilac. They both gave him multiple problems and costly repairs. He ended up with a 85 Grand Marquis that was trouble free and he kept it for 10 years. His favorite, repairs not withstanding was the Eldorado.

uplanderguy

Wasn't it the 65 that had a glass cover over the headlights? I think that was for one year only and thought that was neat thou I've always loved hidden headlights

I believe the 300's did have glass over the headlights--andre is the go-to Mopar guy here though; he can confirm or deny. I also liked how the '65 New Yorker had red taillight bulbs with clear lenses. I always thought that was very classy, although in today's vehicles I don't like that look at all--looks like the red lenses are broken out! LOL

uplanderguy

Looks really sharp in that bluish-green color, too. It's interesting how that color seemed so popular around 1965, but just a few years later it was just about gone.

How true. I was very excited to see what Chevy called "Light Jade" and "Dark Jade" offered on the '81's. The "Light Jade" was not unlike this Newport, although it was lighter. Chevy hadn't offered colors like that since the '70 model year. I was looking for a solid dark jade Monte Carlo but my dealer located a two-tone light jade over dark jade model that was otherwise close to what I was looking for (V8, no air!) so I got it. In hindsight I'm glad I did--I really liked the two-tone.

fintail

I should maybe get AAA for the old car, peace of mind. My Hagerty plan has towing, but only 5 miles. I did use it last year, when the fuel injection needed a repair. I drove the car a bit last year, over the pass to Leavenworth, around Mt. Rainier, and the car was fine, although I was cautious. The latter was probably a 250 mile journey in a day, with high altitudes and steep roads. I'll probably "tour" in it again this year, depending on weather and how the car seems to be doing. Funny, as I bought the car when I was 18 and fearless, and would go anywhere in it without thought - and seldom had an issue.

uplanderguy said:

fintail, one of the most satisfying things I ever did was drive my '63, and later my '66, to South Bend, IN for our club's international meets.

As mentioned before, I don't pretend to be a mechanic in the slightest sense of the word, but I got AAA with 200 miles free towing, so I figured, WTH? Driving the '63 out, my wife was behind me in our van; with the '66 she stayed home but it was fine. Fun following the map to see how you're progressing across the countryside.

fintail

I think right around 1965 might have been a high point of style, before things went rapidly downhill. The 50s started out with sometimes frumpy round WW2 aircraft inspired styles, then got a little cooler with jet-age style in the middle of the decade, then got wild and wacky with space age bric a brac towards the end of the decade, then it simmered down fast, and things were just clean and cool for a couple years - relatively trim, too. It seems by 1967-68, bloat was coming back, and earthtones were just around the corner.

andre1969 said:

The '65, at least, represented a return to size and status, even if the Newport itself diluted the Chrysler name compared to what had come before. Looks really sharp in that bluish-green color, too. It's interesting how that color seemed so popular around 1965, but just a few years later it was just about gone.

texases

Fin - base AAA has a pretty limited towing distance, you'll need to check that out.

hpmctorque

sda said:

hpmctorque said:

"Dad bought a used 77 Mercury Grand Marquis. Dark metallic brown, brown vinyl roof, brown leather and corduroy seats, deep dish wheels, 460 V-8. It was fairly sharp looking, but even with the 460 it wasn't all that quick. I think it got about 10 mpg around town. Ouch. Dad only kept it a year or so and bought a similar color brown 78 Cadillac Sedan de Ville d'Elegance. It had the weak 135hp(?) 425 V-8 and was even slower than the Mercury, and didn't get much better gas mileage."

Why did he sell the Grand Marquis? Was the de Ville more satisfying for him, overall?

I think dad has only bought 3 new cars, always preferring to buy 2-4 yr old cars. The Mercury was 3 years old and had about 45000 miles. After about a year the transmission started acting up. He didn't want to repair it so he traded it for the Cadillac. To his chagrin about 3 months after buying the Cadillac the transmission had a sudden failure, which dad had no choice but to repair. He took a fancy to a 79 Eldorado diesel and traded for it. That was his last Cadiilac. They both gave him multiple problems and costly repairs. He ended up with a 85 Grand Marquis that was trouble free and he kept it for 10 years. His favorite, repairs not withstanding was the Eldorado.

Interesting! Thanks.

Michaell

texases said:

Fin - base AAA has a pretty limited towing distance, you'll need to check that out.

I will second that. 4 miles IIRC. Each of our cars have roadside assistance through the manufacturer that has much better towing benefits. AAA is simply a backup. 

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Wasn't it the 65 that had a glass cover over the headlights? I think that was for one year only and thought that was neat thou I've always loved hidden headlights

I believe the 300's did have glass over the headlights--andre is the go-to Mopar guy here though; he can confirm or deny. I also liked how the '65 New Yorker had red taillight bulbs with clear lenses. I always thought that was very classy, although in today's vehicles I don't like that look at all--looks like the red lenses are broken out! LOL

IIRC, it was the New Yorker and 300L that had the covered headlights. Oh, and the '65 Imperial. The Newport and regular 300 had exposed headlights.

I thought the clear lens on the '65 New Yorker was cool, too. It was only used in the early part of the model year, switching over to red lenses later on. I'd always heard that it was because the clear lenses had a high failure rate in production. However, I just did a search, and apparently there are other theories...1), the red lenses were simply cheaper to manufacture, 2) the clear lenses didn't illuminate all that well, and 3) the Feds stepped in and mandated red lenses. I don't think that third theory works though, as Cadillac apparently used a clear taillight lens through 1968.

Mr_Shiftright

texases said:

Fin - base AAA has a pretty limited towing distance, you'll need to check that out.

Right---you need to buy AAA Premier if they offer it in your area. It costs me I think $109 a year (with membership included) and it's good for 200 miles. Since I'm often 100 miles out when I'm out appraising and since I drive a Mini Cooper, this is a good investment!