Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

70 Challenger--Setting value would be tricky. Original color code is important. Needs a ton of work and values have completely flattened out these last 3-4 years. Median auction is $43,000 so this is worth a whole lot less. I'd guess mid-teens. It's not a convertible, it's not a 6-pack and it's not a 4-speed, and it's missing transmission and it needs a total restoration. Might be better off coughing up $75K to buy one finished.

texases

Shifty, this guy could use your help:
http://jalopnik.com/a-michigan-town-is-forcing-this-man-to-sell-20-old-cars-1797608865

berri

I always thought those coupe of extra inches on the Challenger improved the looks compared to the Barracuda.

berri

Its Michigan, so I wonder if it would be different if all those cars were D3

isellhondas

One has to wonder why they let him amass that many cars before enforcing the rules!

ab348

qbrozen said:

gsemike said:

Classic shopping on Long Island

Haven't shared a list in a while

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1969-corvettespeed-top-mint/6282880340.html 69 small block 4 speed Vette. Paint looks terrific

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/mercedes-slc-1981/6310931278.html 81 Benz. Outside looks better than inside, but not asking a lot of money

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1987-jeep-wagoneer-4x4/6304750846.html Is it too soon to say winter is coming?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1975-oldsmobile-cutlass/6305999824.html Address the wheels and this could be a sharp driver.

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1974-dodge-power-wagon-open/6308276212.html Power wagon. 6 cyl 3 speed. What is this like to drive?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1978-lincoln-continental-mark/6279300899.html Land yacht

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-challenger-t-e-440-one/6310572552.html No price. Assume he wants a fortune

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/dodge-1977-b200-tradsman-109/6310325220.html Just paint a wizard on the side and you're all set

https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1969-lincolnhot-rodrat-rodlow/6309402293.html This is very cool

I dig the Lincoln, but I don't understand the title. What makes this any of those descriptors? Appears to be largely stock other than the shaved door handles.

Yeah, "mild custom" would be a better description. I like the Caddy wheel covers and the pimped-out seats. Probably overpriced.

The Cutlass is neat too. Those are the original Olds wheels so a rattle can of GMC truck metallic gray paint and a set of trim rings brings them back to close to the original look.

fintail

Michigan weather is the best friend of rust. I can hear it encroaching on some of those old MBs. Lots of parts cars there.

isellhondas

We are so spoiled here on the West Coast!

I once had a great mechanic working for me who had spent his first 20 years working in the rust belt. He kept saying how lucky and how spoiled the west coast guys were not having to deal with rust!

stickguy

Poor guy. Big government running amok! He needs jay Leno to drop a lawyer in there to help, then send people in to clear the herd. Make a TV show out of it. I'd watch!

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I sometimes deal with inheritance situations, and by and large, families feel burdened by grandpa's cars, and, sadly, often squabble about what they are worth and how to sell them. So I give them accurate numbers (with evidence) which is a great first step in calming everyone down. It also scatters the predators like quail. No "car hunter" is going to "steal" a ca from my clients! I try to get everyone to a price that is "fair for the seller, fair for the buyer".

But man, some people are stubborn as mules.

I mean, why hire an appraiser and then argue about how wrong they are?

Yeah, probably better off hiring a 2nd professional opinion than arguing, but of course, you appraisers are not cheap either! I'm not sure how much a small claims judge will weigh 2 appraiser's opinions against 1 either. Is it a democracy?

qbrozen

That Jag is a really interesting color. Would like to know more about it. Also interested in that 735IL.

fintail

I don't know if this is "big government" - if that's a well water area, and I suspect it is, I wouldn't want a hoarder with 200 old heaps that almost certainly were not drained before being piled up accumulating more and more heaps without thought. I wonder if the neighbors finally complained. The real issue is that he wasn't cut off at maybe 50 cars, and not 200+. The place will be a mini superfund site when the cars are finally removed - if not by the owner, maybe at the taxpayer's expense once he's scouting out the big junkyard in the sky. Seems like another wacky old codger who somehow has plenty of funds, as 200+ heaps aren't going to be cheap - he should have built a pole building to house a few dozen cars, and been more selective. I know the owner thinks otherwise, but not everything in that pile is "special", many are just old cars that maybe because being snapped up by a hoarder, are now far past the point of no return. I have more sympathy for some of the cars than for the owner.

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

I think I'm in the saving it for the kids camp. I often try to justify buying cars I see on line with the rationale of getting it for various young relatives. I suppose the reality is that for the most part young people wouldn't want my grandpa choices assuming they want any car at all.

The Mustang will make a good inheritance. The PT Cruiser will probably be worth scrap prices.

fintail

I suspect my fintail wouldn't be around, or at least a lot less sound, had it been bought new in MI or NY or MA rather than on the west coast.

A number of years ago, I met a guy from the east coast who moved out here maybe 30 years ago. He said the first thing that struck him about being in the PNW was that all of the cars seemed to be 10 years older.

isellhondas said:

We are so spoiled here on the West Coast!

I once had a great mechanic working for me who had spent his first 20 years working in the rust belt. He kept saying how lucky and how spoiled the west coast guys were not having to deal with rust!

stickguy

well, the government aspect comes in when they finally decide (after all these years) to act, then just steamroll and care nothing about individual rights or the particular situation of one of the people they are supposed to work for.

most likely, he could go as slow as he needs to and as long as the number keeps dropping, they won't do anything. Mostly because it would cost the town a lot of money to actually go in and clean it up themselves, just getting the cars out of there, then they have to store them until disposed of, because they can't just take them all to a scrap yard. Due process and all. The old guy should sue like hell if the steal his stuff and don't give fair value!

now, if the town wants to take it all to a municipal lot and have a big sale, that might work out!

ab348

fintail said:

I don't know if this is "big government" - if that's a well water area, and I suspect it is, I wouldn't want a hoarder with 200 old heaps that almost certainly were not drained before being piled up accumulating more and more heaps without thought. I wonder if the neighbors finally complained. The real issue is that he wasn't cut off at maybe 50 cars, and not 200+. The place will be a mini superfund site when the cars are finally removed - if not by the owner, maybe at the taxpayer's expense once he's scouting out the big junkyard in the sky. Seems like another wacky old codger who somehow has plenty of funds, as 200+ heaps aren't going to be cheap - he should have built a pole building to house a few dozen cars, and been more selective. I know the owner thinks otherwise, but not everything in that pile is "special", many are just old cars that maybe because being snapped up by a hoarder, are now far past the point of no return. I have more sympathy for some of the cars than for the owner.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. This guy would be a natural fit on Tom Cotter's show. Definitely a hoarder - look at all the other junk in the background of some of the pics. If those cars had gone to a caring home instead of being sold to him way back when, most would have been far better off.

stickguy

but honestly looking at those pictures, hard to imagine many of them run, and a huge number are probably really just worth scrap now. What he should do is triage the mess, and flag the ones that are not retail saleable, and just have the scrappers come once a month and take a batch away. He can concentrate on getting the usable cars up and running and sold while that goes on.

fintail

I think "fair value" of 80% of the stuff there is based on weight. IMO the only mistake made by government was not cutting him off earlier - he didn't buy 200 cars in one big lot, he had 20, then 30, then 50, someone should have stepped in. I suspect that area doesn't allow zoning for a junkyard (doesn't appear to be in the middle of nowhere, just not in a town proper), and that's essentially what he has - IMO it is not really a collection when it is sitting out in the Michigan weather. Living outside of the city limits doesn't eliminate rules and regulations. I wouldn't want to be his neighbor, even if it is apparently hard to see when trees have leaves.

I think the municipality is worried about two things - being sued for pollution issues by neighbors who claim they were negligent to have let it get out of hand, and by the municipality itself not wanting to "inherit" the mess - in other words, make him clean it up. I'd hope they would let him proceed in good faith if their exact numbers weren't met, but he also seems like he might not take scrap value for scrap value.

texases

I got a chuckle out of the author stating "But Ron doesn’t want to scrap some of these priceless gems".

Not sure I saw any "priceless gems". David Tracy is a junk car lover, did amazing things with a junky old Jeep. But like @stickguy said, just flag the 20 or so to be saved, scrap the rest 20 at a time, starting with the worst, area by area.

And @fintail is right, these are a major fresh water hazard.

xwesx

@fintail Complete agreed here. I have to side with the county on this one; he should have had more sense than to amass all these cars that he knew (and saw, day by day) were just going to fall apart in his hands. The fact that he did not have such sense means he needed someone to step in like this.

I also agree with his sentiments, though, that his request for more time on these is completely reasonable. He should have asked for, and received, a variance that allowed him to have the vehicles for two years. At the end of that time frame, they step in and remove everything (remaining) to the scrapyard at his expense. Overall, he has the same deadline (e.g., an average of twenty vehicles per month), but he can implement on his terms and ramp the removal operation up in an organized way.

I chuckled at the notion that he's being forced to sell these at loss. I'm not sure how he expected these things to appreciate in value!

andres3

xwesx said:

@fintail Complete agreed here. I have to side with the county on this one; he should have had more sense than to amass all these cars that he knew (and saw, day by day) were just going to fall apart in his hands. The fact that he did not have such sense means he needed someone to step in like this.

I also agree with his sentiments, though, that his request for more time on these is completely reasonable. He should have asked for, and received, a variance that allowed him to have the vehicles for two years. At the end of that time frame, they step in and remove everything (remaining) to the scrapyard at his expense. Overall, he has the same deadline (e.g., an average of twenty vehicles per month), but he can implement on his terms and ramp the removal operation up in an organized way.

I chuckled at the notion that he's being forced to sell these at loss. I'm not sure how he expected these things to appreciate in value!

If they are all auctioned off can that be considered a loss? Isn't that market fair value?

fintail

Makes me want to start an "old car protective services" division to liberate cars from neglectful or insane owners

ab348 said:

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. This guy would be a natural fit on Tom Cotter's show. Definitely a hoarder - look at all the other junk in the background of some of the pics. If those cars had gone to a caring home instead of being sold to him way back when, most would have been far better off.

fintail

Makes me want to start an "old car protective services" division to liberate cars from neglectful or insane owners

ab348 said:

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. This guy would be a natural fit on Tom Cotter's show. Definitely a hoarder - look at all the other junk in the background of some of the pics. If those cars had gone to a caring home instead of being sold to him way back when, most would have been far better off.

ab348

Too bad the acronym SPCA is already taken - "Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Automobiles" seems appropo.

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

One has to wonder why they let him amass that many cars before enforcing the rules!

Maybe somebody on the town board wanted a car and got turned down.

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I think I'm in the saving it for the kids camp. I often try to justify buying cars I see on line with the rationale of getting it for various young relatives. I suppose the reality is that for the most part young people wouldn't want my grandpa choices assuming they want any car at all.

The Mustang will make a good inheritance. The PT Cruiser will probably be worth scrap prices.

Not according to the dealer solicitations I get in the mail. According to them the PT is "in great demand" which is why they want me to trade it. Maybe I'll line 200 of em' up on my property and wait for the town to come after me.

qbrozen

In my personal experience, my guess is the gov didn't care until someone complained. 

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I sometimes deal with inheritance situations, and by and large, families feel burdened by grandpa's cars, and, sadly, often squabble about what they are worth and how to sell them. So I give them accurate numbers (with evidence) which is a great first step in calming everyone down. It also scatters the predators like quail. No "car hunter" is going to "steal" a ca from my clients! I try to get everyone to a price that is "fair for the seller, fair for the buyer".

But man, some people are stubborn as mules.

I mean, why hire an appraiser and then argue about how wrong they are?

Yeah, probably better off hiring a 2nd professional opinion than arguing, but of course, you appraisers are not cheap either! I'm not sure how much a small claims judge will weigh 2 appraiser's opinions against 1 either. Is it a democracy?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My best rebuttal to an argument is "OK, fair enough. Show me your evidence and if I'm wrong, I'll re-appraise the car for free". But if they point to one classified ad (often an outlier) or something a club member told another club member, that's not going to be good enough. If say, they showed 6 successive auction results of similar cars over a 1 or 2 year period, well that would get my attention.

It's not impossible to be wrong certainly, like say if I mis-identified a car and confused it with a more common variation. There's a big difference between an "A" code and "K" code Mustang for instance!

Mr_Shiftright

andres3 said:

xwesx said:

@fintail Complete agreed here. I have to side with the county on this one; he should have had more sense than to amass all these cars that he knew (and saw, day by day) were just going to fall apart in his hands. The fact that he did not have such sense means he needed someone to step in like this.

I also agree with his sentiments, though, that his request for more time on these is completely reasonable. He should have asked for, and received, a variance that allowed him to have the vehicles for two years. At the end of that time frame, they step in and remove everything (remaining) to the scrapyard at his expense. Overall, he has the same deadline (e.g., an average of twenty vehicles per month), but he can implement on his terms and ramp the removal operation up in an organized way.

I chuckled at the notion that he's being forced to sell these at loss. I'm not sure how he expected these things to appreciate in value!

If they are all auctioned off can that be considered a loss? Isn't that market fair value?

There is actually a legal definition of "Fair Market Value", which is:

"Fair Market Value" is defined as the price most likely to be realized when a willing buyer offers to a willing seller, without duress on either party, and with full knowledge of all particulars known to each party"

So this eliminates a "distress" sale--I would think this gentleman was placed under duress; however, it sounds like he agreed to the deadlines, sooooo I dunno how it falls here.

Mr_Shiftright

texases said:

I got a chuckle out of the author stating "But Ron doesn’t want to scrap some of these priceless gems".

Not sure I saw any "priceless gems". David Tracy is a junk car lover, did amazing things with a junky old Jeep. But like @stickguy said, just flag the 20 or so to be saved, scrap the rest 20 at a time, starting with the worst, area by area.

And @fintail is right, these are a major fresh water hazard.

I'd photograph them and do a quick write-up on condition and post each one on Bring A Trailer at $95 a pop, no reserve sale.....or eBay for that matter. If 20 or 30 people say your car is worth X, and they've voted with their wallets to back it up, it's hard to argue that that isn't "fair market".

This presumes, of course, that you did a good job of presenting the cars.

No reason you couldn't see a fair number of them per month using this method. Whatever gets no bids--junk it.

andres3

qbrozen said:

In my personal experience, my guess is the gov didn't care until someone complained. 

You know, come to think of it, in at least a few of my encounters with law enforcement pull-overs, they've said something to the effect of "We've been getting complaints about XYZ" to make excuses for and to justify the citation being issued by their hand and name.

stickguy

Possible a new neighbor moved in after old one sold the house.

oldfarmer50

Don't know what to make of this. It just screams flood car. Carpets taken out west coast contact number.

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2005-jeep-wrangler-4x4-sport/6314145459.html

On the other hand maybe he meant Troy, CA out near Lake Tahoe.

oldfarmer50

Any value to these? Probably a money pit.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/rare-1990-oldsmobile-trofeo/6280667779.html

Go to admit I'm a sucker for some of these old GM cars. Like the looks for some reason.

tjc78

I think they are the 3800 4 speed combo so at least the drivetrain is stout.  I’m sure electrical gremlins would pop up.  

I kinda like that car.  

oldfarmer50

Explain this to me.

Today I saw an Audi A6 3.0T. I assume the T stood for turbo but on the front fender was a badge that said 'supercharged'.

So which is it?

texases

They've switched, I think that was super, other was turbo (earlier or later). 

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

Any value to these? Probably a money pit.



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/rare-1990-oldsmobile-trofeo/6280667779.html

Go to admit I'm a sucker for some of these old GM cars. Like the looks for some reason.

Zilch collector car value. Just a used car. I'd value it, if it were in "fair" condition, at around $600, and fully restored to like new, about $3500.

There is however, a Trofeo Facebook Page!

https://www.facebook.com/OldsmobileToronadoTrofeo

xwesx

I saw an Audi S5 this morning on my way to take my daughter to school. Not really a project car, but it was pretty....

fintail

Ah the Trofeo, I still remember these ads 27 years later:

https://youtu.be/jdZPvVSmGqA

From when Olds was chasing 45 year olds instead of 70 year olds.

Mr_Shiftright

Everybody who was really hip was listening to Calypso music in 1990---LOL!

fintail

To be fair, I think the Trofeo was a decent package for GM at the time. Still has some of the awful plastics inside, but the exterior is far better than the downsized 1986 models. They were trying, baby steps.

I remember back around maybe 2004, a friend of mine had a really spoiled entitled girlfriend. She had just destroyed a 90s Accord her parents had given her. She wanted them to buy her another car, an 2nd gen RX-7 her brother was selling, but they feared it would be a money pit, so they gave her grandma's old car, a 90-91 ish Trofeo in the burgundy color that was probably 90% of production. I just happened to visit when they were giving her the car, and she was very upset about it. The car was immaculate, low mileage, a nice machine, but she put up a fit. I remember telling her that it was a very nice car, and that I would drive it no problem - no dice. I think she eventually relented, as she had no other option, her parents finally were somewhat putting their foot down. Today, my friend is married, and not to her, which is a relief.

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

Explain this to me.

Today I saw an Audi A6 3.0T. I assume the T stood for turbo but on the front fender was a badge that said 'supercharged'.

So which is it?

http://jalopnik.com/397272/audi-announces-supercharged-30l-tfsi-v6-officially

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

Explain this to me.

Today I saw an Audi A6 3.0T. I assume the T stood for turbo but on the front fender was a badge that said 'supercharged'.

So which is it?

AS someone else linked, apparently Audi will use the letter T for any forced induction engine.

Mr_Shiftright

Great! I'm a big fan of "huffers".

oldfarmer50

Thanks for the Audi explanation.

Now explain this:



https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/cto/d/1960-cadillac-and-1964-impala/6310852385.html

It'll buff right out, huh?

texases

I love it when they call a rust bucket like that Caddie "complete"...doesn't count the parts that have now been replaced by ferrous oxide, I guess! $6,000, what a bargain...

fintail

I like the attitude in the ad, which sums up the "spirit of Massachusetts" we all know and love so well

To quote the ad: "yea rite", 12 grand. nice.

explorerx4

I wonder if his 'friend' knows he is trying to sell them?

imidazol97

ab348 said:

Too bad the acronym SPCA is already taken - "Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Automobiles" seems appropo.

Maybe SPAMV--Society for Prevention of Abuse of Motor Vehicles.