Interesting project to begin with or to finish off a 1964 project in progress. Top oiler '64 R code 427. Can't be many of these left but how to price it? A side oiler 427 from just one year later would be different story though.
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
Lot of money for an engine that needs to be totally redone. And no car. THats real close to old farmer. Maybe he wants to grab it to drop into the mustang?
Interesting project to begin with or to finish off a 1964 project in progress.
Top oiler '64 R code 427. Can't be many of these left but how to price it?
A side oiler 427 from just one year later would be different story though.
I don't really understand expensive old engines. IMHO, if it isn't going to result in a numbers matching car anyway, just get a crate motor that would be more efficient, more reliable, and more powerful.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Lot of money for an engine that needs to be totally redone. And no car. THats real close to old farmer. Maybe he wants to grab it to drop into the mustang?
The Coyote in my Mustang is just fine thanks. Now if you can rustle up a nice Voodoo 5.2L give me a call.
Just curious, how much hp did that 427 put out and what's the diff between a top oiler and a side oiler?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
True, but there's some value in "period correct" equipment.
Maybe. I'd be curious to know by how much, though. Enough to justify 3x the cost of a good crate engine? Depending on the car, I'd say unlikely. I don't think the period correct 440 in my Coronet is doing much for the value vs let's say a 500 stroker.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'd say that engine is way overpriced. First of all, it's a center oiler, not a side oiler; secondly, it may be totally junk inside and would have to be sleeved. At that price I'd expect it to be rebuilt and ready to roll.
I forgot these existed. Interesting attempt to take the car more upscale after these were so notoriously low end. If it had an 8, it could be an OK driver
I forgot these existed. Interesting attempt to take the car more upscale after these were so notoriously low end. If it had an 8, it could be an OK driver
Wow! A straight V6! It might be one-of-a-kind!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I forgot these existed. Interesting attempt to take the car more upscale after these were so notoriously low end. If it had an 8, it could be an OK driver
I had a junior high school teacher who bought one of these in '77 or '78 - I remember it being quite elegant, compared to the lower trim levels.
Lot of money for an engine that needs to be totally redone. And no car. THats real close to old farmer. Maybe he wants to grab it to drop into the mustang?
The Coyote in my Mustang is just fine thanks. Now if you can rustle up a nice Voodoo 5.2L give me a call.
Just curious, how much hp did that 427 put out and what's the diff between a top oiler and a side oiler?
I think the R code 427 was rated at 425hp in 1964. All the early FE blocks were top oilers which directed oil flow to the cam and valve train first and then the crank second. In 1965 the 427 blocks were revised and sent oil to the crank first and the cam second which made the engine stronger. Those side oiler 427 engines are the ones which made racing history. From the wiki Ford FE engine page, "In 1966, the 427 cubic inch Ford GT40 Mk II dominated the 24 Hours of Le Mans race, with a one-two-three result."
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
Most of the 427 gearheads seem to think that a top oiler is just fine if you aren't all-out racing. But it's the side oilers that are worth the big bucks $$$. The side oiler block is re-inforced at the main bearing area as well, in addition to the improved lower end lubrication.
Apparently Ford put some side oilers into marine applications.
As far as I know Ford offered many marine and industrial 427 engines with the revised block but still machined to use top oiler lubrication. Still I wouldn't be surprised if some side oilers wound up in some fast boats. And I agree that the 427 top oiler is the real deal for just about anything short of killer competition racing.
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
Ah, okay. I saw 17 digits and thought the state had intervened.
So that translates as Pontiac, Grand Prix, hard top coupe, 1969, built in Pontiac MI. Engine could be a 400 or 428, we don't know. Could have 390HP or 265 HP or something in between.
Omar, you're making me feel young again (well, for a few minutes at least). On an entirely different subject; when I was just a kid in the Chicago suburbs way back when, I remember for awhile my parents had an Omar brand bread man deliver bread and baked goods. Kind of an unusual name, but quite a catchy one.
One of those times when you can look at an $800 car and say "you can do better". Aveos seem to be one the newer cars found in junkyards today, I don't know if via careless ownership or iffy durability.
"great car [in another universe] but it needs a 35$ head gasket set [and $1,000 of engine work]. Hood flew up while driving and cracked wind shield [so add at least another $1,000 for that]. I slid that elbow and filter on because the stock one is ripped after the maf sensor [who knows what I screwed up there, add another $1,000 or so], Battery is dead, good tires no check engine light [because of dead battery, so lets just add another $500 of work needed for that]. "
One of those times when you can look at an $800 car and say "you can do better". Aveos seem to be one the newer cars found in junkyards today, I don't know if via careless ownership or iffy durability.
I think the hood flying up answers the durability question, unless he forgot to latch it closed correctly.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
One of those times when you can look at an $800 car and say "you can do better". Aveos seem to be one the newer cars found in junkyards today, I don't know if via careless ownership or iffy durability.
I think the hood flying up answers the durability question, unless he forgot to latch it closed correctly.
He left it open intentionally to aid that custom CAI and take on Civics. I'm baffled by the lack of stickers, though. Everybody knows stickers hold all the power.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Last night I went down a YouTube wormhole after I stumbled upon the Hagerty channel. This particular one was a series of videos called "The Barn Find Hunter" featuring Tom Cotter, author of "The Cobra in the Barn" and subsequent similar books, with him traveling the US and visiting various car hoards.
I never cared for his books but that was more due to the writing style than anything - a lot of the chapters read like responses to emails from people and are not very well written. This was different but left me with a similar feeling. Much of it was almost depressing - visiting very old, decrepit folks, lots of them in wheelchairs or otherwise in advanced decline, with their dozens (or hundreds in some cases) of projects untouched for decades. Other people were in better physical condition but were like many I've seen over the years locally, with a stash of stuff rotting away in a field who say "I'm gonna fix it up someday" when you know they have no chance of ever doing that, or asking ridiculous prices for things that are parts cars at best. One of the worst was a visit to an old fellow who had a bunch of cars in buildings but even more - most of them convertibles - sitting outside. A convertible does not do well without a top out in the weather, and none of these were protected. Just sad.
I've tried to get into the psychology of people who do that. Here are some speculations I came up with, from lots of personal experience with these "types".
1. Dreamers who bit off way more than they can chew but won't admit defeat.
2. Those who enjoy the power they feel when someone else has what they want, and they (the owner) won't give it to them--ever.
3. Hoarders--their "car collection" really makes no sense if you look at it objectively. It's not just cars--it's everything.
4. The genuinely "old and tired". They restored a few cars but now have run out of gas and money. This type often comes around and sells before it's too late.
5. Saving cars for grandkids when in reality the kids could care less but won't tell grandpa.
6. The Greedy---they vastly overestimate what they own and refuse to sell at a fair price--typical remark from a Greedy "Why, I'd rather burn it than sell it at that price!"
When I've seen these types of folks around here I am often struck by how their living conditions are often equally ramshackle, and how if they hadn't spent their money on all these old cars over they years they could be living in a much more comfortable and pleasant environment. On Cotter's videos, you see people with sizable plots of land and often numerous outbuildings, so they have assets if not liquidity. I always wonder where the money to do this came from in the first place. Maybe they inherited oil wells or cotton farms but a lot seem to be barely literate and it makes you wonder. The other odd thing in some of his segments are people with cars that were nicely finished many years ago and are still quite good but are ignored now and never driven, while they have had their "next project" outside sitting under a a tarp for the last 15 years, also untouched.
I will guess 2, 5, and 6 are the dominant cases. I've ran into the power-trippers (probably linked directly to the greedy ones) and the "saving it for the kids" types.
I think I'm in the saving it for the kids camp. I often try to justify buying cars I see on line with the rationale of getting it for various young relatives. I suppose the reality is that for the most part young people wouldn't want my grandpa choices assuming they want any car at all.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I sometimes deal with inheritance situations, and by and large, families feel burdened by grandpa's cars, and, sadly, often squabble about what they are worth and how to sell them. So I give them accurate numbers (with evidence) which is a great first step in calming everyone down. It also scatters the predators like quail. No "car hunter" is going to "steal" a ca from my clients! I try to get everyone to a price that is "fair for the seller, fair for the buyer".
But man, some people are stubborn as mules.
I mean, why hire an appraiser and then argue about how wrong they are?
I sometimes deal with inheritance situations, and by and large, families feel burdened by grandpa's cars, and, sadly, often squabble about what they are worth and how to sell them. So I give them accurate numbers (with evidence) which is a great first step in calming everyone down. It also scatters the predators like quail. No "car hunter" is going to "steal" a ca from my clients! I try to get everyone to a price that is "fair for the seller, fair for the buyer".
But man, some people are stubborn as mules.
I mean, why hire an appraiser and then argue about how wrong they are?
How would the title situation affect your valuation on this one?
I think some people know it all already, so there is no teaching them. Greedy heirs are probably a huge part of that demographic. I suspect the arguers are especially prevalent with neglected cars, neglected exotic cars, and older ordinary cars that were worth more 30 years ago than now.
I think in most areas kids want a car, unless they are lucky enough to live with some workable transit - one of those evil social goods most Murkans just can't have. But grandpa's choice might not enthuse most of them.
I sometimes deal with inheritance situations, and by and large, families feel burdened by grandpa's cars, and, sadly, often squabble about what they are worth and how to sell them. So I give them accurate numbers (with evidence) which is a great first step in calming everyone down. It also scatters the predators like quail. No "car hunter" is going to "steal" a ca from my clients! I try to get everyone to a price that is "fair for the seller, fair for the buyer".
But man, some people are stubborn as mules.
I mean, why hire an appraiser and then argue about how wrong they are?
How would the title situation affect your valuation on this one?
I've heard VT is a great place to title wash flood cars. I know that you'd never be able to register it in NY.
I don't deal much in modern cars, so if one comes up in an estate that has mostly collector cars, I just tell people to use Edmunds TMV and leave it at that, or I'll just do that for them and instead of an appraisal give them a one-page memo on value. There's really no skill or science necessary to evaluate cars that like.
I think some people know it all already, so there is no teaching them. Greedy heirs are probably a huge part of that demographic. I suspect the arguers are especially prevalent with neglected cars, neglected exotic cars, and older ordinary cars that were worth more 30 years ago than now.
I think in most areas kids want a car, unless they are lucky enough to live with some workable transit - one of those evil social goods most Murkans just can't have. But grandpa's choice might not enthuse most of them.
Let's face it---after about 15 minutes, most old cars aren't that much fun for a kid to drive--especially with drum brakes and no power steering, and that oil smell coming through the firewall. By the 70s and 80s, cars were getting pretty competent and most would do OK as daily drivers to school---things like that. Especially for domestic cars. On old foreign stuff, the repair bills might kill a kid's budget right quick.
MB is the final run of the SLCs. Early 380 models can have timing chain issues, I would want to have it looked at. Interior would probably come back to life with some leather food.
Corvette looks great (other than the steering wheel), but seems dear for a 350 coupe.
The Jeep may not have many winters left, looks like nature is running its course.
Power Wagon is cool, but I don't know if there is such thing as "rust for the year", rust is there or it is not.
Lincoln is pretty even with the bit-too-wide whitewalls.
I dig the Lincoln, but I don't understand the title. What makes this any of those descriptors? Appears to be largely stock other than the shaved door handles.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I suspect most kids of the past 30 years wouldn't want an old relic with a manual, no power assists, and likely a pile of quirks. I remember when I was a teen in the 90s, and one of my dad's cars was something I have mentioned before, a 68 Fairlane with a 3 on the tree, manual steering, manual brakes. After about 30 seconds, I knew it wasn't for me (but he loved it). However, we also had a 66 Galaxie with power assists and a 390 with a loud exhaust, I was more than happy to drive that one, even with its quirks (most cold blooded car I have experienced, I think it had both thermostat and carb issues that my dad either couldn't fix or didn't want to be bothered with, as he didn't drive it much). Going from the Galaxie to the fuel injected fintail was like getting into a modern car - even though the fintail was older.
Nowadays, there aren't many ancient cars that kids would have access to, or want. An 80s car would be considered vintage, and a 70s car seriously old. I think many old domestics would be fine and maybe even appreciated by kids for their style and ease of repair. Mainstream Japanese stuff would fare well too, and a sorted MB W123 or W126 diesel would probably be fine.
Let's face it---after about 15 minutes, most old cars aren't that much fun for a kid to drive--especially with drum brakes and no power steering, and that oil smell coming through the firewall. By the 70s and 80s, cars were getting pretty competent and most would do OK as daily drivers to school---things like that. Especially for domestic cars. On old foreign stuff, the repair bills might kill a kid's budget right quick.
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Top oiler '64 R code 427. Can't be many of these left but how to price it?
A side oiler 427 from just one year later would be different story though.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I wonder what kind of Galaxie that 427 came from, would have been quite a beast.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Just curious, how much hp did that 427 put out and what's the diff between a top oiler and a side oiler?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'd estimate around $3,000 for it.
https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/d/1977-chevy-nova-concours/6278527917.html
I forgot these existed. Interesting attempt to take the car more upscale after these were so notoriously low end. If it had an 8, it could be an OK driver
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Apparently Ford put some side oilers into marine applications.
https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2007-caddy-sts-supercharged/6300133459.html
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
way to be decisive
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Other than that, seems nice.
https://hartford.craigslist.org/ctd/d/1969-pontiac-grand-prix-type/6304878028.html
That's a legit '69 model year Pontiac VIN, just ignore the leading zeroes.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
So that translates as Pontiac, Grand Prix, hard top coupe, 1969, built in Pontiac MI. Engine could be a 400 or 428, we don't know. Could have 390HP or 265 HP or something in between.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/2008-chevy-aveo5-5-speed/6306949573.html
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
"great car [in another universe] but it needs a 35$ head gasket set [and $1,000 of engine work]. Hood flew up while driving and cracked wind shield [so add at least another $1,000 for that]. I slid that elbow and filter on because the stock one is ripped after the maf sensor [who knows what I screwed up there, add another $1,000 or so], Battery is dead, good tires no check engine light [because of dead battery, so lets just add another $500 of work needed for that]. "
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I never cared for his books but that was more due to the writing style than anything - a lot of the chapters read like responses to emails from people and are not very well written. This was different but left me with a similar feeling. Much of it was almost depressing - visiting very old, decrepit folks, lots of them in wheelchairs or otherwise in advanced decline, with their dozens (or hundreds in some cases) of projects untouched for decades. Other people were in better physical condition but were like many I've seen over the years locally, with a stash of stuff rotting away in a field who say "I'm gonna fix it up someday" when you know they have no chance of ever doing that, or asking ridiculous prices for things that are parts cars at best. One of the worst was a visit to an old fellow who had a bunch of cars in buildings but even more - most of them convertibles - sitting outside. A convertible does not do well without a top out in the weather, and none of these were protected. Just sad.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
1. Dreamers who bit off way more than they can chew but won't admit defeat.
2. Those who enjoy the power they feel when someone else has what they want, and they (the owner) won't give it to them--ever.
3. Hoarders--their "car collection" really makes no sense if you look at it objectively. It's not just cars--it's everything.
4. The genuinely "old and tired". They restored a few cars but now have run out of gas and money. This type often comes around and sells before it's too late.
5. Saving cars for grandkids when in reality the kids could care less but won't tell grandpa.
6. The Greedy---they vastly overestimate what they own and refuse to sell at a fair price--typical remark from a Greedy "Why, I'd rather burn it than sell it at that price!"
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But man, some people are stubborn as mules.
I mean, why hire an appraiser and then argue about how wrong they are?
https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/d/buick/6310862943.html
I've heard VT is a great place to title wash flood cars. I know that you'd never be able to register it in NY.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I think in most areas kids want a car, unless they are lucky enough to live with some workable transit - one of those evil social goods most Murkans just can't have. But grandpa's choice might not enthuse most of them.
Haven't shared a list in a while
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1969-corvettespeed-top-mint/6282880340.html 69 small block 4 speed Vette. Paint looks terrific
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/mercedes-slc-1981/6310931278.html 81 Benz. Outside looks better than inside, but not asking a lot of money
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1987-jeep-wagoneer-4x4/6304750846.html Is it too soon to say winter is coming?
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1975-oldsmobile-cutlass/6305999824.html Address the wheels and this could be a sharp driver.
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1974-dodge-power-wagon-open/6308276212.html Power wagon. 6 cyl 3 speed. What is this like to drive?
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1978-lincoln-continental-mark/6279300899.html Land yacht
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1970-challenger-t-e-440-one/6310572552.html No price. Assume he wants a fortune
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/dodge-1977-b200-tradsman-109/6310325220.html Just paint a wizard on the side and you're all set
https://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/d/1969-lincolnhot-rodrat-rodlow/6309402293.html This is very cool
Corvette looks great (other than the steering wheel), but seems dear for a 350 coupe.
The Jeep may not have many winters left, looks like nature is running its course.
Power Wagon is cool, but I don't know if there is such thing as "rust for the year", rust is there or it is not.
Lincoln is pretty even with the bit-too-wide whitewalls.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Nowadays, there aren't many ancient cars that kids would have access to, or want. An 80s car would be considered vintage, and a 70s car seriously old. I think many old domestics would be fine and maybe even appreciated by kids for their style and ease of repair. Mainstream Japanese stuff would fare well too, and a sorted MB W123 or W126 diesel would probably be fine.