Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

berri

Roger that good buddy. I'm gonna take rocking chair I could never get into that era T-Bird, or the Elite for that matter. But I know Ford sold a boat load of Elites, so I'm out of the mainstream on that one. I know green was still somewhat popular, but I'm thinking the color might cost him a little?

fintail

I don't mind the green, but the car needs to be a lot nicer for that money. If all it needs is a "detail", do it!

He's somewhat right in that many of them were destroyed - by 1985, the one in my family was off the road.

omarman

"Plenty of premium earthones" according to the seller's ad. Well it was the 70's and earth tones were the thing. But I don't think that '74 Gran Torino Elite is Saddle Bronze Metallic.

My dad bought a new Mercury in that color off the showroom floor at Heritage Lincoln-Mercury in 1973 and inside or out in the sun it looked more like the color of this Mustang:

qbrozen

isellhondas said:

FRONT END WORK Upper Control Arm and Ball Joint Assy - R. Side - 223.72 Upper Control Arm and Ball Joint Assy L, Side 216,84 Lower Control Arm Bushing Kit - 261,86 Lower Ball Joints (2) - 123.60 Front Shock Absorbers - 320.32 Rear Shock Absorbers - 283.80 LABOR - Hang onto your socks! Replace Lower Ball Joints - 449.82 Replace Upper Control Arms - 370.00 Replace Lower Control Arm Bushings - 119.00 Replace Front shocks -185.64 Replace Rear Shocks- 264.18 4 Wheel Alignment - 110.00 Haz Material Disp - 10.00 So. what do your guys think? Personally I think a good tech could knock out that front end work incl the shocks in a few hours. am I tottally out of touch? Thanks, your imput is both respected and appreciated. It's not too late for my buddy to find another shop!

It appears to me they are charging full "from scratch" labor on each task and conveniently overlooking the fact they are already in there. For example, you have to pull the wires off the plugs to change the plugs, so why is there an extra labor charge? That is even more pronounced with the front end because you have to take it all apart to remove the upper control arms anyway.

fintail

I should send that Elite to a friend of mine. His dad bought a similar one new, was quite proud of it, and kept it until the mid 80s, when my friend was a kid. By then, it was looking pretty rough, and my friend was embarrassed by it. He'd call the color a variant of poop brown (he's told me their car had a brown cloth interior, which he thinks was burlap). The car ended up being something of a joke in the family, as his dad touted it as a "luxury car". It was replaced by a Celebrity which turned out to be less reliable, and the family then moved to Honda. Now his parents have a Camry.

berri

That is kind of the car family history of many from those days

ab348

Remarkably plain-jane interior on that '74 Elite. Unfortunate colors too. Up here the Mercury Cougar version of that car was far more popular and to my eye, looked better. Think the Merc had a better interior too. Having had a '74 Maverick I would be wary of any Ford of that era in the salt belt. Their rep was so bad up here that for the next model year Ford made a big deal of advertising that the '75 models came with a clear sprayed-on rockerguard material on the lower exterior portions of the body, over the paint, to prevent rusting caused by stone chips.

fintail

The engine compartment of the Elite looks like a vat of Armor-All was dumped over it.

I went down the rabbit hole of browsing the seller's listings. Some optimistic prices and rare cars. 2 (!) 60 Edsel 2 door HTs - but both were tacky restomods. Why?

This must also be rare as a 4-speed (if original):
https://www.streetsideclassics.com/vehicles/3969-cha/1964-ford-galaxie-500-xl

ab348

Love the blue interior on that Ford. Too bad the aluminum finished trim on the speedo cluster is deteriorated, not sure how hard that would be to fix.

stickguy

thats what a big sedan should be.

berri

I always thought the 64 Galaxie was one of the better looking 4 dr HT's that year. Stick in it is pretty unusual. Are those bucket seats in it original? It has been many years, but they look slightly off from the 63/64 Ford buckets to me.

xwesx

fintail said:

The engine compartment of the Elite looks like a vat of Armor-All was dumped over it.

I went down the rabbit hole of browsing the seller's listings. Some optimistic prices and rare cars. 2 (!) 60 Edsel 2 door HTs - but both were tacky restomods. Why?

This must also be rare as a 4-speed (if original):
https://www.streetsideclassics.com/vehicles/3969-cha/1964-ford-galaxie-500-xl

My friend's '66 Galaxie, which I stored for a couple of years, had a three on the tree. Sorta fun, but also problematic because the shift linkage was rather iffy. More often than not, once you shifted up from first, there was no shifting back down to it. I would have to pop the hood and wiggle things around before it would engage the gear again.

isellhondas

qbrozen said:

isellhondas said:

FRONT END WORK

Upper Control Arm and Ball Joint Assy - R. Side - 223.72
Upper Control Arm and Ball Joint Assy L, Side 216,84
Lower Control Arm Bushing Kit - 261,86
Lower Ball Joints (2) - 123.60
Front Shock Absorbers - 320.32
Rear Shock Absorbers - 283.80

LABOR - Hang onto your socks!

Replace Lower Ball Joints - 449.82
Replace Upper Control Arms - 370.00
Replace Lower Control Arm Bushings - 119.00
Replace Front shocks -185.64
Replace Rear Shocks- 264.18
4 Wheel Alignment - 110.00
Haz Material Disp - 10.00

So. what do your guys think? Personally I think a good tech could knock out that front end work incl the
shocks in a few hours. am I tottally out of touch?

Thanks, your imput is both respected and appreciated. It's not too late for my buddy to find another shop!

It appears to me they are charging full "from scratch" labor on each task and conveniently overlooking the fact they are already in there. For example, you have to pull the wires off the plugs to change the plugs, so why is there an extra labor charge? That is even more pronounced with the front end because you have to take it all apart to remove the upper control arms anyway.

isellhondas

isellhondas said:

qbrozen said:

isellhondas said:

FRONT END WORK

Upper Control Arm and Ball Joint Assy - R. Side - 223.72
Upper Control Arm and Ball Joint Assy L, Side 216,84
Lower Control Arm Bushing Kit - 261,86
Lower Ball Joints (2) - 123.60
Front Shock Absorbers - 320.32
Rear Shock Absorbers - 283.80

LABOR - Hang onto your socks!

Replace Lower Ball Joints - 449.82
Replace Upper Control Arms - 370.00
Replace Lower Control Arm Bushings - 119.00
Replace Front shocks -185.64
Replace Rear Shocks- 264.18
4 Wheel Alignment - 110.00
Haz Material Disp - 10.00

So. what do your guys think? Personally I think a good tech could knock out that front end work incl the
shocks in a few hours. am I tottally out of touch?

Thanks, your imput is both respected and appreciated. It's not too late for my buddy to find another shop!

It appears to me they are charging full "from scratch" labor on each task and conveniently overlooking the fact they are already in there. For example, you have to pull the wires off the plugs to change the plugs, so why is there an extra labor charge? That is even more pronounced with the front end because you have to take it all apart to remove the upper control arms anyway.

Thank you because that was exactly what I was thinking. If they are already "in there" the labor should be reduced to reflect that and in these estimates it appears this wasn't done. To me the major turn off was charging for grease when they replaced the wheel bearings!

berri

A 3 on the tree wouldn't be all that uncommon on a lower level base 66 Ford 6 cylinder. But pretty uncommon on a Galaxie or any V8 from that era I think.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

The engine compartment of the Elite looks like a vat of Armor-All was dumped over it.

I went down the rabbit hole of browsing the seller's listings. Some optimistic prices and rare cars. 2 (!) 60 Edsel 2 door HTs - but both were tacky restomods. Why?

This must also be rare as a 4-speed (if original):
https://www.streetsideclassics.com/vehicles/3969-cha/1964-ford-galaxie-500-xl

Yeah, that car has the right code on the data plate for a 4-speed---"5"

Probably not very pleasant to row a 4-speed around in that big barge.

texases

Wonder how hard it would be to replace the cracked dash pad? And the trim on the outside plastic is also a bit worn. Good 'survivor' look to it.

How good it that price? Unusual combination, what with the 4 speed.

Mr_Shiftright

Price seems fair enough, but of course we can't really see it. Paint looks dull, chrome is marked up. Let's call it a low #3 car. I would hit it at about $15K if it runs out well and doesn't look too bad up front and personal.

Dash pad replacement (if you mean the factory padding under that fuzzy thing) can be tedious.

isellhondas

xwesx said:

Hate to say it, but I'm not feeling horrible about those prices. Sky high to me, but for shop rates? Not so much. Jeebus, my local shop charged me something like $450 to adjust the timing and carburetor on my 1969 C20. They said they had to replace and gap the spark plugs before they could adjust the carb and timing, so, basically, they charged me about $250 for spark plugs that would have cost me about $50.

Hey, I would have adjusted your carb and timing for nothing on your old truck! That would be right up my alley!

The timing would be set by ear and by feel and the carb would have been set the same way! That's how we used to do it and it worked! Oh, does it ping a bit? Let me retard the timing a little bit!

The last time I used my timing light I got one hell of a shock somehow. It was never as good as setting it by ear anyway!

Mr_Shiftright

Not a bad method but don't ever do that on an air-cooled engine! No-no.

fintail

Maybe that aluminum could be polished or something - you wouldn't want to put a NOS piece in, it would clash.

fintail

I've never been a huge fan of column shift manuals. Maybe as the car I had exposure to it, a 68 Fairlane, also had manual steering and brakes. Of course, my dad loved it. He'd just leave it in 2nd most of the time when in town.

xwesx said:

My friend's '66 Galaxie, which I stored for a couple of years, had a three on the tree. Sorta fun, but also problematic because the shift linkage was rather iffy. More often than not, once you shifted up from first, there was no shifting back down to it. I would have to pop the hood and wiggle things around before it would engage the gear again.

qbrozen

Still a but miffed at myself for missing out on the red/white Galaxy I should have bid on at the Mecum KC auction last year. 

xwesx

isellhondas said:

xwesx said:

Hate to say it, but I'm not feeling horrible about those prices. Sky high to me, but for shop rates? Not so much. Jeebus, my local shop charged me something like $450 to adjust the timing and carburetor on my 1969 C20. They said they had to replace and gap the spark plugs before they could adjust the carb and timing, so, basically, they charged me about $250 for spark plugs that would have cost me about $50.

Hey, I would have adjusted your carb and timing for nothing on your old truck! That would be right up my alley!

The timing would be set by ear and by feel and the carb would have been set the same way! That's how we used to do it and it worked! Oh, does it ping a bit? Let me retard the timing a little bit!

The last time I used my timing light I got one hell of a shock somehow. It was never as good as setting it by ear anyway!

Yeah, that's how I do it too, for the most part. I put the timing at spec, set the carb to 1/2 turn each, and then go from there. But, it has a nasty habit of "dieseling" upon shut off. And, lately, has been really bad about it. So, I figured a professional adjustment couldn't hurt anything, and, after 48 years (at the time), it probably deserved it.

It runs really well, for the most part, now, but still not perfect. I guess I can't expect perfect on mechanicals that are nearly a half-century old.

xwesx

@fintail That column shift wasn't my favorite, but I do pride myself a bit on being capable of driving a rather wide variety of vehicles. So, from that standpoint, it was still fun. My grandparents' old 1947 Chevrolet sedan also had a three-on-the-tree like that, except that it was a "by feel only" sort of deal (e.g., the gearing wasn't labeled as far as I recall). I drove that one in a parade when I was just shy of 20, and my left leg was actually a tad sore the next day. From Shifty's descriptions, I imagine that extremely old stuff, like Model T's, would be a bit of a ride!

I suspect that most current drivers would be hard-pressed to drive any of my old rigs, let alone something like a column shift.

omarman

Did you learn to double clutch in that car? In 1953 my mom bought a used 1950 Chevy with 3-speed column shift and kept it around until all of us kids had learned to drive and left the nest by 1977.

During the 2 years that I drove it I learned to live with vacuum wipers and hand signal turns. But I hated that grinding sound on the 2-1 downshift around town. For a little help with my shifting technique I looked it up in an old manual under "double de-clutch."

By the time I graduated there was nobody was left at home who wanted the old beast (including mom and dad) so it was sold off - still running, keeping the old Chevys never die flame alive. Looked pretty rough by that time though.

Still for many years after that I'd catch myself double clutching on a new or modern used car just out of habit.

berri

Back in the old days often a stick gave you some performance advantages like acceleration, snow weather driving and fuel economy. Today in most respects an auto generally holds the advantages thanks to the computer technology..

fintail

These days, being able to drive a stick at all, or ride a motorcycle, or even parallel park, probably puts one in a small and shrinking minority. You probably know Model Ts are an alien experience, you shift with a pedal, planetary transmission. You are right in the fun part based on variety - modern cars are so homogeneous, that there's not much of that fun anymore. Something like a MB column shift is seen as wacky or even a little exotic.

xwesx said:

@fintail That column shift wasn't my favorite, but I do pride myself a bit on being capable of driving a rather wide variety of vehicles. So, from that standpoint, it was still fun. My grandparents' old 1947 Chevrolet sedan also had a three-on-the-tree like that, except that it was a "by feel only" sort of deal (e.g., the gearing wasn't labeled as far as I recall). I drove that one in a parade when I was just shy of 20, and my left leg was actually a tad sore the next day. From Shifty's descriptions, I imagine that extremely old stuff, like Model T's, would be a bit of a ride!

I suspect that most current drivers would be hard-pressed to drive any of my old rigs, let alone something like a column shift.

fintail

Speaking of Galaxies, this one looks nice

I remember looking at one like this when I was maybe 15 - well maybe it wasn't as nice, but it was nice to my young eyes. They wanted 2K for it, which seemed like a bargain even then, around 1992.

Messed up Edsel, I want it stock

Another car for uplanderguy

qbrozen said:

Still a but miffed at myself for missing out on the red/white Galaxy I should have bid on at the Mecum KC auction last year. 

explorerx4

Floor shift in the Edsel is kind of strange. Looks like a manual, but is hooked up to an automatic transmission.

omarman

Ha! That Edsel may be "messed up" but it made me laugh at first glance and I like it. It's only an Edsel Ranger, so if it's a pro street project that's been sorted then I'm okay with it. Well, not so okay with the wheels! But that's the first thing which made me laugh.

Yep it's a Lokar automatic shifter but when I read the seller's ad they just briefly mentioned a "stout 3 speed automatic" with no more details. Hmm...

Mr_Shiftright

Probably a beefed-up transmission with a shift kit and maybe a stall converter.

fintail

There were under 300 60 Edsel 2 door HTs made (all 60 Edsel non-wagons are Rangers). Kind of rare to chop up IMO. I suppose people can do what they want with their money, maybe the car was a gutted shell to start with.

I kind of like the 4 door HT more anyway.

fintail

Had the old car out today. Cold morning around freezing, not much warmer in the garage, fired right up. Warmed up to about 50 today under clear skies, car ran fine, only an occasional sputter or stumble, which is the car telling me to give it more gas. Got a thumbs up and a wave from a guy in a Hummer H1 that sounded diesel powered, it was completely decked out too.

No gratuitous pics today!

berri

Do you use the new car much given Seattle rush hour traffic Fin, or do you take public transit, bike, walk, rollerblade, et. al. ?

fintail

I live in a suburb and go to work early. There is an early bus, but the daily RT would take twice as long as driving, and I am still paying insurance whether or not I drive. I live roughly 4 miles from work - bike is too risky, no sidewalks on much of the route hurts for walking. The traffic can be insane even on surface streets, but I am used to it I suppose.

explorerx4

What about that Ferrari odometer rollback story out there now?

fintail

I can believe it.

stickguy

Old News. Ferris Bueller did that 30 years ago.

isellhondas

I never had a problem using that method on old VW's. On a Porsche, probably not

omarman said:

Did you learn to double clutch in that car? In 1953 my mom bought a used 1950 Chevy with 3-speed column shift and kept it around until all of us kids had learned to drive and left the nest by 1977.

During the 2 years that I drove it I learned to live with vacuum wipers and hand signal turns. But I hated that grinding sound on the 2-1 downshift around town. For a little help with my shifting technique I looked it up in an old manual under "double de-clutch."

By the time I graduated there was nobody was left at home who wanted the old beast (including mom and dad) so it was sold off - still running, keeping the old Chevys never die flame alive. Looked pretty rough by that time though.

Still for many years after that I'd catch myself double clutching on a new or modern used car just out of habit.

omarman said:

Did you learn to double clutch in that car? In 1953 my mom bought a used 1950 Chevy with 3-speed column shift and kept it around until all of us kids had learned to drive and left the nest by 1977.

During the 2 years that I drove it I learned to live with vacuum wipers and hand signal turns. But I hated that grinding sound on the 2-1 downshift around town. For a little help with my shifting technique I looked it up in an old manual under "double de-clutch."

By the time I graduated there was nobody was left at home who wanted the old beast (including mom and dad) so it was sold off - still running, keeping the old Chevys never die flame alive. Looked pretty rough by that time though.

Still for many years after that I'd catch myself double clutching on a new or modern used car just out of habit.

omarman said:

Did you learn to double clutch in that car? In 1953 my mom bought a used 1950 Chevy with 3-speed column shift and kept it around until all of us kids had learned to drive and left the nest by 1977.

During the 2 years that I drove it I learned to live with vacuum wipers and hand signal turns. But I hated that grinding sound on the 2-1 downshift around town. For a little help with my shifting technique I looked it up in an old manual under "double de-clutch."

By the time I graduated there was nobody was left at home who wanted the old beast (including mom and dad) so it was sold off - still running, keeping the old Chevys never die flame alive. Looked pretty rough by that time though.

Still for many years after that I'd catch myself double clutching on a new or modern used car just out of habit.

That old Chevy really should have been stopped before putting it into first gear. They didn't have syncros on first. Yes, you can get pretty skilled on double clutching but it can still be hard on it if you miss.

Mr_Shiftright

TODAY'S TOPIC; Very high mileage cars:

"I think he's dead, Jim"

He's kidding on the price, right?

Pretty good shape for 1.6 million miles, I must say

Go Toyota!

Yeah, great "limo" for a junkyard wedding. Still the miles are impressive

fintail

310K+ on a M103 W126, that aint not bad.

explorerx4

There is that little dot between the 3's on the navigator.

fintail

Some miled up beauties from the PNW:

Legendary

Good for 200K more

Of course there's one of these

And one of these

And one of these

Original miles, no less

explorerx4

I know this is cheating, but I'm posting it anyway.
https://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/cto/d/1989-peterbilt/6529009392.html

It's not easy being green
https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/d/2009-ford-escape-hybrid/6529887419.html

Probably well known around Boston. Too many zeros?
https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/d/2005-ford-crown-vic-taxi/6527434371.html

Paint has held up really well
https://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/cto/d/1988-land-rover-defendertdi/6517380071.html

Mr_Shiftright

Some of those are pretty impressive. I do wonder though how many have had engine replacements? I see the Acura has.

Some of the "sales pitches" are interesting.

Well seems like 400K is just about the "outer limits". I suspect the last 100K are the hardest.

qbrozen

Defender ad claims recent respray

stickguy

looks almost like new. Much odder to see something like this miled up, as opposed to a cab or a work truck.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2004-toyota-camry_solara-2dr_convertible_se_v6_automatic-used-17371193.html

That Nissan king cab, I like. I actually had one just like that, in dark red. Might have been a 1990 though.

omarman

Let's B-O-P again like we did last Y2K.

2001 buick lesabre odometer: 274000

2001 Oldsmobile Alero odometer: 245000

2001 Pontiac odometer: 269000

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
I added a 'smiley' afterwards, but it didn't show up.