Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

I suppose you could convert it to a manual transmission. I did that with a Saab Turbo convertible--also had a lame automatic.

Yeah, a car like that 164, if the transmission gives up you have pretty much equaled the value of the car. You can get a reman for about $4700 bucks but then you have to install it. It's a FWD car you know so it's got a transaxle. Similar trans to Audis and Saab of the era.

Mr_Shiftright

Latest barn find. Hasn't run in years. Kinda rusty. Only the brave need apply:

fintail

250 GTE?

In this speculative top-heavy economy, it'll still bring a jillion dollars.

texases

I always wonder when I see spark plug wires in tubes like that - doesn't that result in cross-firing and other ignition problems once the wires age? And how do you wire them? Bare wires, then add the spark plug connections later?

Can look nice, though.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

250 GTE?

In this speculative top-heavy economy, it'll still bring a jillion dollars.

Yes, a 250GTE 2+2.

One might think it's worth a lot, but in reality, this car isn't worth restoring IMO. What will probably happen to it is that the body will be scrapped, and the frame and engine (it has big-valve heads) will be used to create a replica of a more famous Ferrari open car or race car. It would be worth more like that, than as an original restoration in this case.

It makes no sense to buy a car like this for $100K, spend $300K to restore it, then sell it for $400K. (if you're lucky). You could have the Italians hammer out a 250 GTO for you, like this conversion:

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/ferrari/250/1963/509246

fintail

Not worth restoring perhaps, but still worth a lot - especially if the owner bought it 30-40 years ago when it wasn't worth much. 2+2 can't help the value.

Mr_Shiftright said:

One might think it's worth a lot, but in reality, this car isn't worth restoring IMO. What will probably happen to it is that the body will be scrapped, and the frame and engine (it has big-valve heads) will be used to create a replica of a more famous Ferrari open car or race car. It would be worth more like that, than as an original restoration in this case.

It makes no sense to buy a car like this for $100K, spend $300K to restore it, then sell it for $400K. (if you're lucky). You could have the Italians hammer out a 250 GTO for you, like this conversion:

https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/ferrari/250/1963/509246

Mr_Shiftright

Yet another car put into the VRC for 30 years ---Vehicle Rotting Chamber.

texases

Must be one of the priciest 'parts cars' we've seen here...

Mr_Shiftright

That's exactly what it is.

fintail

I suspect something like that was under 10K in late 70s dollars. Even letting it rot, someone fared well.

Mr_Shiftright

Well not like buying $10K in Apple stock!

fintail

But probably better than 98% of similar automotive investments of the same era. A lucky time for some big ticket items (older exotics, local real estate).

omarman

Put $10K into a 5% interest bearing account in the late 70s.
20 years later put that balance into a mutual fund.
20 years later with an annual return of just 9% you are still worth more than a Ferrari parts car in 2018.
Bonus: 40 years of no storage fees or insurance bills.
Celebrate!

fintail

But then you don't have a car to look at

9% over 20 years sounds like a lot more work than letting a car rot. Owner probably owned the storage and didn't insure a non-runner, too.

Even better, buy a house in many neighborhoods in my area for 80K in the late 70s, 25-30 year mortgage, live in it, take the tax breaks/renter penalty, then once paid off put the mortgage money into something even low risk, you could have 1.5-2MM without much work now.

gsemike

Clicking around Hemmings Long Island - never really look at this site but some interesting listings

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/volvo/v70/2132188.html - Gray market V70 T5. Really cool for the money. Looks clean

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chrysler/cordoba/2141687.html - Time capsule Cordoba that's not as extraordinary as the seller thinks. I hope that there aren't too many people restoring Cordobas these days

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chrysler/imperial-crown/1876904.html - 65 Imperial. Really unique cars that I like. This looks like a decent 10 footer, but black is the color to have

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/impala/2115036.html - Impala... sport sedan?

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/pontiac/lemans/2079987.html - 66 Lemans. If this was a GTO, I'd totally be in love. Love the colors. Price seems to be rare air for a 326 Lemans

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mg/bgt/2111702.html - MG BGT - never knew that's what these are called. Looks nice

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/toyota/celica/2027460.html - 85 Celica convertible. Looks really clean and it's a stick

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/lotus/super-seven/2101405.html - Lotus 7, looks like a kit car

We love shooting our cars by the ocean

texases

They'd have attracted more buyers to that Imperial with two hours of cleaning - Bleche-White, anyone?
That Tempest is one of my all-time favorites, neighbors had one that I liked years ago.
The Impala with the 6/Powerglide...not so 'sporty'...
And why take the risk on registering a grey market V70?

fintail

Where could you register that Volvo? Florida? Maybe somewhere in the south? I suspect any west coast DMV would laugh.

Impala 4 door HTs were indeed "sport sedans".

Celica is dear but nice, those kind of cars are the future.

texases

In fact, couldn't that Chevy have been optioned as an SS with that powertrain?
edit - nope, could only get an SS on the coupe or convertible.

gsemike

fintail said:

Where could you register that Volvo? Florida? Maybe somewhere in the south? I suspect any west coast DMV would laugh.

Impala 4 door HTs were indeed "sport sedans".

Celica is dear but nice, those kind of cars are the future.

Owner of the V70 says he is original, and the window sticker shows a long island dealer. Maybe he is using hyperbole and is saying that it was a special order car not usually imported here. NY plates look like they've been on the car for years

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

But then you don't have a car to look at

9% over 20 years sounds like a lot more work than letting a car rot. Owner probably owned the storage and didn't insure a non-runner, too.

Even better, buy a house in many neighborhoods in my area for 80K in the late 70s, 25-30 year mortgage, live in it, take the tax breaks/renter penalty, then once paid off put the mortgage money into something even low risk, you could have 1.5-2MM without much work now.

Unless you got whupped in 2008. Everyone is a certified genius in a bull market, right?

fintail

I didn't even check that. Must be hyperbole - maybe not even Euro delivery with that paperwork.

gsemike said:

Owner of the V70 says he is original, and the window sticker shows a long island dealer. Maybe he is using hyperbole and is saying that it was a special order car not usually imported here. NY plates look like they've been on the car for years

gsemike

fintail said:

Where could you register that Volvo? Florida? Maybe somewhere in the south? I suspect any west coast DMV would laugh.

Impala 4 door HTs were indeed "sport sedans".

Celica is dear but nice, those kind of cars are the future.

The Celica has to be rare these days, especially in the NorthEast. I guess lacking comparables you can pick a number you like and 'let's see'

qbrozen

So I have a question on that v70. If it aint a US car, why does it have EPA MPG figures on the sticker? And of course the aforementioned fact that the sticker clearly shows it was shipped to a US dealer. 

Mr_Shiftright

gsemike said:

fintail said:

Where could you register that Volvo? Florida? Maybe somewhere in the south? I suspect any west coast DMV would laugh.

Impala 4 door HTs were indeed "sport sedans".

Celica is dear but nice, those kind of cars are the future.

Owner of the V70 says he is original, and the window sticker shows a long island dealer. Maybe he is using hyperbole and is saying that it was a special order car not usually imported here. NY plates look like they've been on the car for years

Then there's the matter of the FOUR accidents listed on CARFAX.

gsemike

Mr_Shiftright said:

gsemike said:

fintail said:

Then there's the matter of the FOUR accidents listed on CARFAX.

I still mostly like it for less than 4 grand

Mr_Shiftright

Well at that price if it doesn't work for you, you can sell it to some other suc....er.....buyer

omarman

When I read the early magazine reviews of that gen Celica, there were some derisive comments about the squinting slanted tail lights. Between the preview pics and reading the commentary I never could get used to it after that.

But I've always liked the cat's eye tail light Chevy.

qbrozen

I emailed that volvo seller asking what's up. No idea why. Bored I guess.

omarman

Really like that '65 Impala sport sedan. But it's a lot of car for that 6 in a row to pull around. Thankfully there's plenty of room under the hood to upgrade.

I actually liked the 70s Cordoba and in 1979 I test drove a used '77 Cordoba with the 400 V8 and Corinthian whatever interior. Smooth and overall drove well but even at 2 y/o with only 39k miles, the plastic interior trim bits were cracking and splitting. Tansky's sold it new, took it back on trade and offered it for sale at $2999 but I didn't take it.

For all the attempts to make the Cordoba an upscale personal lux car, Chrysler seemed to be de-contenting the effort from the beginning.

berri

59 and 65 - both really good looking Impala's for me

ab348

I like that Cordoba, believe it or not, if only for the rarity. But I don't think I would want it unless the seller took 50% off the price.

The Celica convertible is very nice - there is one here locally I believe - but the seller should correct the ad. The top line description states it has 345,000 miles but the body of the ad states 34,500 miles.

qbrozen

Volvo dude called me this morn. He babbled quite a bit but in the end explained it was simply a custom order he placed through the dealer. 

explorerx4

Another craigslist ad with seller attitude and the usual story.
https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/d/2003-saab-9-5-aero-wagon/6650442583.html

benjaminh

explorerx4 said:

Another craigslist ad with seller attitude and the usual story.
https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/d/2003-saab-9-5-aero-wagon/6650442583.html

That rust looks nasty. There seems to be a particular interest here in old Saabs? There's a Saab/want-to-own Saab club and also a TLX club?

Mr_Shiftright

Very ugly rust issues. I'd pass on that one!

Saabs are nice to drive and they're cheap. So that's about it--a car for us bottom-feeders.

explorerx4

Saab's have always been popular in the northeast.
My wife had a 2001 wagon in the same color, although V6 with asymmetrical turbo.
Yes, always quirky those Saabs.
It was a 3 year lease and a love/hate relationship.

fintail

Got the fintail back from the shop today - no issues. I give them a budget and say they can do all they want within the budget, but call me first before anything else. I was told the car appears to be roadworthy with no issues in need of immediate remedy. They were also quite busy, so maybe they didn't want to open Pandora's Box - but the car is running and driving fine, and I only drove it about 1000 miles since the last service. Next year I might have the systems flushed, and I am thinking about new shocks.

Fun incident, they misplaced the key, and didn't realize it until I showed up. Took some time, but they found it.

omarman

explorerx4 said:

...My wife had a 2001 wagon in the same color, although V6 with asymmetrical turbo. Yes, always quirky those Saabs...

Okay I'm not up on my Saab history but...I read that the "asymmetric turbo V6" had only 1 turbo mounted on 1 bank of 3 cylinders, but actually provided boost for all 6 cylinders and - here's my favorite part - had less horsepower than the non turbo V6 in the Saab 9000.

Why didn't this catch on?

Mr_Shiftright

Well it might put the horsepower in a different place on the rev band, I dunno.

isellhondas

explorerx4 said:

Another craigslist ad with seller attitude and the usual story.
https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/d/2003-saab-9-5-aero-wagon/6650442583.html

He blew off that rusted quarter like it was nothing..." they all do that"

If he could really get it fixed cheaply he should have done so. I guess he could have poked chicken wire in there and filled it with bondo!

fintail

Seeing that rust makes me thankful I live where I live - local cars simply don't do that. Something to make up for the cost of living, I suppose.

Mr_Shiftright

isellhondas said:

explorerx4 said:

Another craigslist ad with seller attitude and the usual story.
https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/d/2003-saab-9-5-aero-wagon/6650442583.html

He blew off that rusted quarter like it was nothing..." they all do that"

If he could really get it fixed cheaply he should have done so. I guess he could have poked chicken wire in there and filled it with bondo!

That rust damage is thousands of dollars if you want to do it right (so it doesn't come back in 6 months). God only knows what happens when you hit that area with a grinding wheel.

fintail

Spent the day detailing the fintail (normal people would probably say it wasn't needed), as the MBCA gathering is in a couple weeks.

Here's the dear sitting at the shop, they kept it covered and pretty clean:



And all shined up, cleaned inside. The car has a weird quirk when sitting in the sun on a very hot day with the windows up - something outgasses, and the windows get foggy. It seems to do it more now than in the past, not sure what's behind that. Nice to have my glass clean again. I scrubbed the tires for the first time in a long while, too:



Covered car at right is the 64 Pontiac convertible that apparently never moves, covered car at right is a 55 Chevy that seldom moves.

explorerx4

I've seen another version of this ad locally before.
It's a chuckle.
https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/d/pickup-truck/6649458095.html

berri

...and she come tumbling down

berri

The street scene of your fintail looks a bit like SoCal, but I know Seattle is a combination of things. When the 64 Pontiac came out, I really only liked the Grand Prix. But over time I've come to like that integrated front fender and light design. As I age I'm either getting more tolerant, classier, or nuts

fintail

The climate here is mild enough for small palm trees, and some people are into it. They are often found around upmarket businesses, and more ostentatious mcmansions, especially of the faux Tuscan variety.

I can't recall if the Pontiac is a Catalina or Bonneville (I think the latter), it is blue with a white top.

sda

fintail said:

Spent the day detailing the fintail (normal people would probably say it wasn't needed), as the MBCA gathering is in a couple weeks.

Here's the dear sitting at the shop, they kept it covered and pretty clean:



And all shined up, cleaned inside. The car has a weird quirk when sitting in the sun on a very hot day with the windows up - something outgasses, and the windows get foggy. It seems to do it more now than in the past, not sure what's behind that. Nice to have my glass clean again. I scrubbed the tires for the first time in a long while, too:



Covered car at right is the 64 Pontiac convertible that apparently never moves, covered car at right is a 55 Chevy that seldom moves.

Looks great as always! Is the Toronado still there?

fintail

Yep, I think it moves every several months anyway. It's fun tight parking there, as I have the Toro on one side (it completely fills the space), and a cement wall on the other. A marginally easy skill test, I back in and try to make it in one shot, succeeding maybe 2/3 of the time.

I noticed the hood was unlatched on the Toro, I could see it under the tight cover.

sda said:

Looks great as always! Is the Toronado still there?

ab348

fintail said:

The climate here is mild enough for small palm trees, and some people are into it. They are often found around upmarket businesses, and more ostentatious mcmansions, especially of the faux Tuscan variety.

Our climate isn't anywhere as mild as Seattle, but our idiotic city government is planting them anyway.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dartmouth-palm-trees-1.4766229?cmp=rss

These guys seem to find new ways to waste money every single day.