Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

stickguy

yeah, whoever bought it did not seem to do anything but let it decay.

fintail

Eighty Two Thousand Dollars

I'd rather spend 100K on a Supra.

stickguy

that was some serious appreciation.

qbrozen

I don’t get it. Conspiracy to raise the market? I fail to see why this car is worth even half that to anybody. There are cars for less that are better in every single way.

ab348

The Honda cult. Or as George Carlin once put it, "never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups". Applies to lots of things these days.

tjc78

I could find much better ways to spend 82k on cars.

kyfdx

Another car wasted, instead of enjoyed.

omarman

A new timing belt, tensioner, and water pump were installed in July 2019 and was mentioned twice in the description. So that has to be worth something extra.

And it comes with a signed Alex Zanardi and Jimmy Vasser poster.

Even deducting for scratches on the back bumper we're still looking at low mile '97 Integra with 195 hp, front wheel drive, BaT tax and a clean car fax.

I was trying to sum it all up but I can't get anywhere near $80K.

tjc78

I can’t get to 20k....

sda

The 85 Lincoln reminds me a lot of dad’s 85 Grand Marquis LS. Same seat fabric, which was extremely comfortable and plush, same wire wheel covers except center emblem, same anemic 130 hp 302 V8. Very nice car overall.

kyfdx

sda said:

The 85 Lincoln reminds me a lot of dad’s 85 Grand Marquis LS. Same seat fabric, which was extremely comfortable and plush, same wire wheel covers except center emblem, same anemic 130 hp 302 V8. Very nice car overall.

I think the Mark VII LSC 302 V8 had 160 hp, that year.

fintail

Spotted in the natural habitat for old cars:

fintail

Another view today, baby got back:



This design must have been quite passe by 1965, yet upon introduction in 1959, would have been clean and modern.

I realized that today marks roughly 24 and a half years with the car, I got it in late March 1995. Started right up after being idle for 23 days, turn signals were a little iffy, working maybe 2/3 of the time.

berri

Chevron - she's getting the high priced stuff

fintail

I've been using Chevron most of the time for years. 2 unrelated indy MB shops recommended it, and on weekend cash discount days, my local station isn't much more expensive than others.

fintail

Time again:

90s friend

Gasser

Seldom-seen

Once unwanted, now wanted

"project that I can't seem to finish"

Feelin lucky?

Si

Soft market

Sport

Start your own junkyard

More supply = lower prices

Those wheels on that car

Proud

More reasonable

HAS CURSE CONTROL - definitely a church van

Grandpa's baby

Has presence

Small V8

This has to be rare

Horse

Shark

tjc78

That E350 van would be a great tailgate vehicle.

Yellow over green for the Mercedes? Ugh, that's rough combo even for the 70s

I didn't realize in 84 they still had 4 door Regals... wheels are a crime against humanity.

86 Ford pickup seems cool, Ford got their money's worth out of that steering wheel.

stickguy

I like dusters. But not as much as That one guy. Bet his apartment manager sued him to get the junkers out of the lot! Between the 3 there and the single one, might get a useable car out of the mess. And a lot of scrap.

I like the Celicas. I had a 77 version, but exceptionally rusty. And this was back in 86.

Michaell

I was bored over the weekend and started surfing at Hemmings.

This turned up:
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz/300se/2252964.html

Good price, bad price?

qbrozen

bad with those miles, IMHO.

fintail

I'd definitely want a PPI and more like 5K or so tops. Solid smooth engine, but as they age they are known to possibly consume head gaskets and/or use a little oil. Great color combo anyway.

Linked on the same page is this one, slightly lower miles, more details, another nice and rare color combo - this around 6-7K might be good. These are nice driving cars. However, they have a 4 speed, so they are a little wound up at high cruising speeds, and don't get out of the low 20s mpg.

Michaell

fintail said:

I'd definitely want a PPI and more like 5K or so tops. Solid smooth engine, but as they age they are known to possibly consume head gaskets and/or use a little oil. Great color combo anyway.

Linked on the same page is this one, slightly lower miles, more details, another nice and rare color combo - this around 6-7K might be good. These are nice driving cars. However, they have a 4 speed, so they are a little wound up at high cruising speeds, and don't get out of the low 20s mpg.

Yeah, this is just me dreaming.

I don't use a lot of miles (maybe 5-6K, tops), and not really a highway car. Just thought it would be cool to own.

The blue/beige one you linked to does look nice. I've got no idea what the market for these are, just remember the owner of the first company I worked for out of college getting a brand new 560SEL ('88, I think). He either traded in or sold a Pagoda for it.

qbrozen

They also have a lot of crazy proprietary sensors and emissions gizmos. Not unlike an engine bay full of Rube Goldberg devices.

fintail

They are nice cruisers, and wouldn't be too bad as a low mileage driver, but if it loses an engine or transmission, you're in trouble unless you want to replace it with a used unit. Rebuild prices can be immense.

The 560 series cars are the ne plus ultra of 126s (AMGs not included), and command all the money. Genuinely mint (original finishes) low mileage (sub 5 figure) 560 cars can bring good money. Everything else is second fiddle. But as with all old MBs, small condition decreases can create steep price decreases, to where good drivers are under 10K.

Michaell said:

I don't use a lot of miles (maybe 5-6K, tops), and not really a highway car. Just thought it would be cool to own.

The blue/beige one you linked to does look nice. I've got no idea what the market for these are, just remember the owner of the first company I worked for out of college getting a brand new 560SEL ('88, I think). He either traded in or sold a Pagoda for it.

fintail

Lots of relays too, I remember my 300SE coughed one up, along with a "fuel distributor". It was miled up to around 170K at that point though, so I probably shouldn't complain. The engine itself was almost like a turbine, very smooth.

The 75-77/8 era gasoline cars in particular have emissions-related driveability issues too.

qbrozen said:

They also have a lot of crazy proprietary sensors and emissions gizmos. Not unlike an engine bay full of Rube Goldberg devices.

fintail

Dirty dozen for today:

"I am expecting cash" - good luck bud

Grandpa's trailer hauler

The more that arrive, the lower the price

I think these all ended up here

Window sticker

Almost right for a "Fast Times" fan

Boundless optimism

Going nowhere with these pics

Nice color

Might be fair

Gothic

Ad copy makes me suspicious - no mention of mileage, few details in pics, and those aren't local tract houses

ab348

Normally I would run and hide from a Healey V-8 conversion but that one looks very clean and complete. Who knows what something like that would be worth though.

I like the '79 Camaro a lot. Price may be optimistic but again, who knows.

The Sable might be a bargain. Unfortunate passenger door ding.

fintail

Healey is a "Sebring" (seller spells it wrong, hard to believe, I know) replicar.

Funny, I didn't even click on the Sable door ding pic, was too won over by 90s blue. And it's not a 3.8, maybe a PDR guy could help it for $100.

ab348

fintail said:

Healey is a "Sebring" (seller spells it wrong, hard to believe, I know) replicar.

Ah, I missed that detail.

Reminds me of what I saw ahead of me on Saturday while out in the Cutlass. A roadster of some sort ahead of me with a "37 Jag" vanity plate, but the wheels, tires and other details proclaimed it wasn't that. It was being driven in a leisurely manner by a woman with a bandana over her hair and a flowing scarf flapping in the breeze around her neck, with an older fellow in a flat cap in the passenger seat. I finally was able to get past and saw that it was an Excalibur-type replicar of some sort. I understand that style even less than the Sebring replica in that all it really looked like was a replicar.

fintail

I recall a few SS100 replicars out there - some of them quite good and even using Jaguar mechanicals, some as cheesy as the Gazelle Mercedes SSKs - I suspect those Jags were also Pinto or VW-based. The Sebring doesn't look too bad for what it is, the MB replicars tend to be the worst.

I had an interest in these things when I was a kid. I liked the kit car Bugatti racing cars (mostly VW-based, I think), Shay Model As (Pinto based?), and Excaliburs - very early cars or Series 3/4 Phaetons especially. Kind of a goofy thing now. On that note, neoclassics also caught my eye, for their bold tastelessness.

ab348 said:

Ah, I missed that detail.

Reminds me of what I saw ahead of me on Saturday while out in the Cutlass. A roadster of some sort ahead of me with a "37 Jag" vanity plate, but the wheels, tires and other details proclaimed it wasn't that. It was being driven in a leisurely manner by a woman with a bandana over her hair and a flowing scarf flapping in the breeze around her neck, with an older fellow in a flat cap in the passenger seat. I finally was able to get past and saw that it was an Excalibur-type replicar of some sort. I understand that style even less than the Sebring replica in that all it really looked like was a replicar.

stickguy

I figured the Healey was a kit. I still like it.

I love the Camaro. Just needs a manual.

Michaell

fintail said:

They are nice cruisers, and wouldn't be too bad as a low mileage driver, but if it loses an engine or transmission, you're in trouble unless you want to replace it with a used unit. Rebuild prices can be immense.

The 560 series cars are the ne plus ultra of 126s (AMGs not included), and command all the money. Genuinely mint (original finishes) low mileage (sub 5 figure) 560 cars can bring good money. Everything else is second fiddle. But as with all old MBs, small condition decreases can create steep price decreases, to where good drivers are under 10K.

Michaell said:

I don't use a lot of miles (maybe 5-6K, tops), and not really a highway car. Just thought it would be cool to own.

The blue/beige one you linked to does look nice. I've got no idea what the market for these are, just remember the owner of the first company I worked for out of college getting a brand new 560SEL ('88, I think). He either traded in or sold a Pagoda for it.

Thanks for the feedback, @fintail. For some reason, I would feel more confident getting a 30 year old MB than I would a similar BMW or Audi.

fintail

I would too, fanboyism aside. MBs of the era have, in my anecdotal observations, far higher survival rates, better parts stocks, and a more active enthusiast community for older models. Some cars have design issues to deal with and maintenance isn't cheap, but in my experience, stood the test of time better than most of the competition.

Regarding the big sedans, I linked one in today's menagerie that could be good:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/mercedes-benz-560-sel-4d-1987/6989898142.html

Ad copy lacks sufficient detail, but what can be seen in the minimal pics looks good. If it passes inspection and a little can be negotiated, this would be a good "special interest" car for sunny days and local MB shows.

Michaell said:

Thanks for the feedback, @fintail. For some reason, I would feel more confident getting a 30 year old MB than I would a similar BMW or Audi.

ab348

I noticed that 560 first time through. The Beverly Hills chrome wheel opening trim turned me off, and as you say it needs many more/better pics.

qbrozen

fintail said:

Lots of relays too, I remember my 300SE coughed one up, along with a "fuel distributor". It was miled up to around 170K at that point though, so I probably shouldn't complain. The engine itself was almost like a turbine, very smooth.

The 75-77/8 era gasoline cars in particular have emissions-related driveability issues too.

qbrozen said:

They also have a lot of crazy proprietary sensors and emissions gizmos. Not unlike an engine bay full of Rube Goldberg devices.

I took apart the fuel distributor in ours to replace the seals. I think open heart surgery may be less stressful.

stickguy

I watched WD last night. Ant took apart and rebuilt the VANOS unit on an M3. Looked about the same.

fintail

For that price, definitely.

I wouldn't put a dollar down without a PPI, and popping off that trim to see what lurks underneath. If the car is from a dry area and has been cared for, likely they can be removed with no issue. But they can also be rust nests.

ab348 said:

I noticed that 560 first time through. The Beverly Hills chrome wheel opening trim turned me off, and as you say it needs many more/better pics.

fintail

I remember when mine failed, strong smell of gas, and I think a poor idle. Indy shop charged a few hundred dollars for the job , which seemed fine - I couldn't have done it myself. This was way back early in the 00s though, no doubt more expensive now.

qbrozen said:

I took apart the fuel distributor in ours to replace the seals. I think open heart surgery may be less stressful.

tjc78

and popping off that trim to see what lurks underneath

In 2012 I pulled the chrome trim wheel arches off of the 04 MGM. It was nearly flawless under it. After a quick clean, clay and wax you never knew it was there.

I was actually stunned.

sda

stickguy said:

I watched WD last night. Ant took apart and rebuilt the VANOS unit on an M3. Looked about the same.

My neighbor just had the misfortune of having the Vanos repaired on their 2010 328 convertible. It was roughly $1300. Not sure to what extent it was repaired. I also watched the same WD episode with increased interest. It did appear to be a tedious repair, pretty much all labor cost.

stickguy

I thought he said it was about $1,800 at the dealer. Maybe that was in pounds though! Or just California pricing. But the kit was $250, which seemed awful pricey since it seemed to mostly be a bag of O rings.

texases

But they are GERMAN O-rings!!!

kyfdx

I had my DISA valve updated. Bought a $100 kit from a company in Michigan. Basically, $5 worth of materials, but they engineered a solution and made the parts.

Choices were:
New DISA from BMW: $350 + 1 hr labor
New DISA from vendor, but with their updated parts installed: $450 + 1 hr labor
Rebuild kit from vendor: $100 + 2.5 hr labor. (I chose this one)

The DISA is in the intake, and has a "flapper", and it's basically all plastic parts. Doesn't take too long for deterioration, and then the flapper is loose. The updated parts are mostly metal.

More than you ever wanted to know:
https://www.germanautosolutions.com/bmw_solutions/disa_products/m54_m52tu/m54_disa_repair_kit/product_m54_disa_repair_kit.php

fintail

Today's ragtag bag:

Grandpas everywhere parting with their trucks, ad copy is a headache

Thin on the ground

Not $82K, maybe still dear

Peak Accord, maybe a deal, and a base

'Feature Car'

Fun instrument panel, I'd rather it restored than custom

Low miles

Torpedo

Something something Grey Poupon

Wheelarch trim AND gold package

Relevant to some here

In the diplomatic corps

Looks fair enough

Yellow bird

Same seller

ab348

The number of Grandpa trucks you're finding is astounding. That one looked like a good buy until I saw that both front seats had tears/shredding in the upholstery.

I vaguely remember those "feature car" Stangs, especially the white ones described in the ad. A screaming yellow convertible over black does not really appeal to me.

The '78 Electra is very similar to the '79 I had but not as nice as it is in less appealing colors and lacks the Park Avenue package. Not sure why the 403 would need a rebuild but the total mileage isn't listed so maybe it is miled up.

Not sure why people feel the urge to respray vintage cars in retina-searing yellows. If yellow was used on cars of that vintage it was usually a softer pastel shade.

I don't get the pricing on the R-R. That is a ton of money for a car that is only ceremonial at best.

tjc78

The woody is cool... BUT the wheels would have to go,

Also, if you are going to put in an 80s 5.0 EFI setup, why on earth would you use the LoPo version from the Panthers instead of the HO from the Mustang/Mark VII. Shaking my head on that one.

The Mustang accessory drive (which is reversed from a Panther) is usually easier to deal with as well.

78 Buick... "minty" interior. Green interiors never really caught on, remember when Ford tried it again in the 90s?

Michaell

@fintail, what's the market value for this:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz/e320/2267968.html

fintail

Hard to say with precision, but he might not be too far off, even if the ad copy makes the seller look like a real peach. I am not a fan of those wheels, and the (likely) adhesive fake carbon fiber trim in the console, probably being used to cover cracked laminated wood irks me too - but not hard to correct. I'd want a good look at the paint too.

One big thing - that car is smack dab in the middle of the wiring harness era, and if it hasn't been done, it will need it. Although the ad shows a clean bill of health from a shop, MB specialist PPI would be a good idea. I've seen big asking prices for these, to where this price seems not offensive if the car checks out.

Michaell said:

fintail, what's the market value for this:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz/e320/2267968.html

fintail

Another dozen:


Aged well

There was a time when you couldn't give this away

Sense of humor

They all seem to end up like this

Wrong wheels

Long

The next wave

I kind of like it

Put a box on it for It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World re-enactments

Uncommon

90s style

If you're going to ask the moon, be sure to clean it

tjc78

IMO The Shelby is a cool, rare 80s car. Having said that... not worth anywhere near 15K especially in that condition.

Dirty, dented fender and decal residue all over.