I thought Grand Nationals in general commanded a pretty high price, as long as they're in decent shape? I used to lust after the Grand National/Regal-T back in high school. So if they're reasonable these days, maybe I could go relive my highschool days or something!
It might be a regional thing, but around here it seems like those G-bodies in general are pretty popular, as long as they're not ragged out. They're also the last small-ish, lightweight, easy-to-hot-rod RWD car GM made, so they're a hot commodity for people who want to put a big block in 'em.
Those turbo Regals were "works-in-progress" with all the problems that the older 3.8 V6 had, plus the cantankerous turbocharger. GM finally got them sorted out for '87, just in time for the platform to die. The earlier ones will need generous amounts of TLC to be reliable and powerful, and that's if you find one that's not clapped out already.
was quarter panel work I'd be tempted, but when you start talking trunk floor and floor pan and especially (sub)frame work, that's enough to scare me off.
I've never had a unitized Mopar get bad enough to need work on the subframes, so I'm guessing that it must be really gone underneath. Especially if it's in some fun spot like where the torsion bar attaches.
Aston Martin---if it were a Series 4 car you might have a chance at a passable level of reliability, but anything older than that, then the Aston Martin owner is in some delusional state. It's simply not possible for an early AMV8 to be reliable--the defects were built in so deeply I can't imagine what you'd do---I suppose you could retrofit and upgrade all the Series 4 improvements, but man, that wouldn't be cheap.
Engine fires are a big issue, too.
If the car is a U.S. model, they don't perform like the UK cars either. American market cars had lower compression and compensated with a higher ratio differential, giving better acceleration with the lower HP USA engine, but reducing top speed to a mere 125 mph or so.
A series 4 car would start with serial # V8SOR/12032 and forward.
That's the one you'd want. A UK model would be great but of course it would probably be a RHD.
In top form they are a great handling and performing car but you need to read up on them and shop very wisely for the best of the best from the AM factory...
Ferraris are quite reliable if you do the services on time. They are just expensive to run (about $1.50 a mile I'd guess) but the Ferrari engine is a bear and you can run the hell out of it. Mostly where Ferrari bites you back in the 1980s is in sheet metal and materials---not the best.
That GTX looked cool, if there was one closer that wasn't quite so hosed that was still reasonably affordable, I would be tempted. Alas, I think my budget puts me pack at that mid to late 70s Nova level (a car I had in HS already). That 250 striaght 6 ran forever, had a lot of torque (relative to all my friends in their 1.2 litre Civics), and was just a swipe of the credit card away from a small block crate motor.
But that St. Regis is so purty!! What was it that Rod Serling once said, in that episode of the Twilight Zone where all the pig-people thought that Ellie Maye Clampett was fugly and should either be operated on, exterminated, or banished to another planet? Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder? :P
Plus, I just blew around $25-30K (I think...I ended up losing track its construction was so piece-meal) on a garage, and then parked a $900 Chrysler in it! :shades:
But anyway, I purposely did NOT watch the auction until after it ended, just in case I got too tempted to bid. I think the high bid ended up being something like $725. The seller also emailed me back, saying he had two firm offers and expected it to be gone today.
So I'm guessing it'll either end up on eBay again soon, or I'll see it at Carlisle this summer, with some dreamer trying to push it for $3-4,000!
Oh, cruising around the neighborhood yesterday, I saw a 2-tone green '77-79 Coupe DeVil, with no tags on it, parked at the edge of the yard of a house that's for sale. No sign on the car though. Judging from the dust and pollen on it, it appears to have been sitting for awhile. Wonder if I should go see if they want to unload it? Maybe I could offer to just take it off their hands?
Well the claim is that the engine is professionally rebuilt, which is worth about $5,000 at least, so the price might be "fair enough" for both sides....depending on the mileage. Myth-makers take note that mercedes diesels do blow up.
I have a friend who is selling his car and buying a new Mustang GT. Here is the info:
1996 Mustang GT Convertible, 4.6 V8 with a 5-speed manual. It is red with a black top and black leather. It has 130,000 miles all by him. He bought it new. He drives a little hard, but doesn't abuse it. In fact he worked his way through college as a car detailer and his car shows it. It looks nearly perfect outside. Inside, it is clean but the leather shows normal wear.
The guy is fanatical maintenance and cleanliness including 3000 mile oil changes, weekly washes, and monthly waxes. If he hears a funny noise, he takes it to the dealer and has the offending part replaced immediately with a new Ford part. In the last month, he put in a new clutch and new tie rods. It got a new top last year. He even replaced all of the center caps for the wheels because he suspected they were getting loose. It has been in a couple of fender benders and had both bumper covers repainted, but the paint looks outstanding. He is selling it just because it is getting expensive for him to remain a perfectionist.
Anyway, his plan is to ask $7,500 and take $7,000. He knows wholesale it is only worth about $3,000, but he has kept it so nice I bet he gets his asking price. I am not a Mustang guy or a convertible guy, but I am really tempted to buy it. I would probably drive it for a year a couple of days a week and then sell it.
I'd be shocked if he gets anywhere near that asking price for it. I don't care if it was placed in a vacuum for the last 10 years, its still just a '96 Mustang.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Just a nice used car, so around $5K--$5,500 tops for this--and that would be generous enough for a private buyer. Maybe a dealer who is financing the car could pull $6K out of it.
Hahaha... I know, though perhaps a car like this would take a little more than beer to look "purty." In all honesty there is really not much one can do to talk someone out of something that appeals to him or her unless so many "what if's" and "but then's" are stacked against it that the person finally has just heard enough.
Look at me, I still have my '69 Econoline and I insist to my wife that I will never part with it. I told her last week that my grandparents were seriously considering a move to a "maintenance by dues" neighborhood so they could get away from yard care and snow removal. She said that if I wanted my grandfather's '76 Ford Ranger, I would have to get rid of my van. I just laughed... but she said, "No, seriously. If you bring that truck home without getting rid of something, I am going to leave you." I laughed again and said, "Hey, if our relationship means that little to you, by all means go." Of course I was just kidding with her, but in the end she compromised and said that she was okay with the truck if I got rid of the '69 Banner camper for my '69 C20. Done.... I have been just waiting for a really good excuse to axe that old heap. :P
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I agree with you guys, but my friend is convinced he will get every penny. He is not going to sell if he can't get $7K. He is in the Mustang club, so maybe one of those guys will believe their own hype and buy it.
Maybe I should by this 'Stang instead. Any car painted entirely with bedliner must be a real sturdy vehicle.
I have wanted to buy an old CJ-7 or CJ-5 and cover the whole thing in Rhino bedliner both inside and out. That way when i get it all messed up on the trail I can just hose out the inside and if a fender gets crumpled up just hammer it back into shape and put more rhino liner on it.
Wow. How anyone could run a vehicle into the ground in ~3 years is beyond me. But, it looks to me like that starting bid is more than enough for this pile of junk.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I can't see him actually 'getting' $6k for this car, though it may be the best of its ilk anywhere. It's just not collectible, IMO (yet, or ever? I've been wrong before).
much of a fan of the Lumina, but I always liked the style of the Z34 coupe. It's a fuel sipper compared to your typical SUV, but the EPA rating on the sucker is 17/26. About the same as an LT-1 Caprice/Roadmaster/etc. Or a 300C.
They tended to have junky interiors that fell apart very easily, and the same goes for all the plastic stuff on the exterior. So anybody who bought that Z34 would probably have to baby it to keep it looking good.
Also, the 3.4 DOHC was a good performer, but could be troubleprone and expensive to fix when it did break. It was actually based on the pushrod 2.8/3.1, and once the DOHC was dropped, a pushrod 3.4 stuck around.
Once GM got the 3800 up to about 200 hp without supercharging, that engine replaced the DOHC 3.4 in most applications. It got better fuel economy and didn't give up much in 0-60 times, but it wasn't nearly as responsive and fun to drive at higher speeds.
...who has a Lumina Z34 like that one but, like most others, it's thrashed beyond all redemption. That example above must be the nicest one in existance.
Yeah that car will probably fall apart in the next owner's hands, but all the recent maintenance must be worth something. At least you can be confident that you will not have to dump $2K into the car 100 miles down the road just to get it back into "daily driver" order. Unless you were really salivating for it, I'd guess $3500-4000 would be extremely generous for a car like this.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
The mistake most car club members make is to equate rarity with value. Just because they have determined through tedious research that they have only 1 of 200 Oldsmobile Cutlasses made with pink sun visors that year, that doesn't mean it's worth ten cents more than any other Cutlass of the same year---except to them.
Case in point: there's this owner who has a '55 Chevrolet done in a special commemorative paint to acknowledge that in 1955 Chevy built its 50 millionth car. So they painted 5,000 4-door sedans in this special gold color. That's it, nothing else was done to the cars. So, it's rare, and there's history, but hey, it's a 4-door sedan with no AC, no conti kit, no special chrome options, etc. Who would pay as much for it as they would for a restored Bel Air hardtop or convertible? Very very few people, if any.
Ferraris: Italian cars are generally really good for bigger guys once you get used to the preferred Italian driving position. They like to drive with arms fully extended so they don't have to cross wrists while steering. At Ferrari speeds, this makes sense. 328s are my favorite "affordable" older Ferrari.
would one of those commemorative '55 Chevies be worth any more than a regular, non-commemorative 4-door sedan? I've never even heard of one. I've never liked gold cars though, so to me it wouldn't be worth anything.
So they didn't come with any interior upgrades, either?
One car I always get a kick out of, because people often think it's something rare and special, is the 1956 DeSoto Seville. This was actually a stripper package on the 1956 Firedome 2- and 4-door hardtops, that was about $100-200 less, and had a cheaper interior. But I guess people see that "Seville" badging and think they have a treasure!
I dunno if value guides deduct for the "Seville" package or not, though.
The number of 4-door cars that can compete with their 2-door equivalents in value are few and far between. The Jaguar Mark II sedan comes to mind, which is quite valuable, and perhaps the Impala SS 1994-96. Other than that, a 4-door car's ultimate or peak value stops just short of the price of the average 2-door's value.
So I'd say a "gold commemorative" '55 Chevy 4-door cannot sell for more than a nice driver 2-door '55 hardtop...so that puts us at around $20K--$25K max for a beautifully restored 4-door V8 with good options. I myself wouldn't give over $12,000 for it.
was that a 2-door hardtop should be worth about twice an equivalent 4-door pillared sedan. And then a convertible should be worth about twice an equivalent 2-door hardtop. I'd put a slight premium on a 4-door hardtop or 2-door sedan over the 4-door sedan, but either would still be well below the 2-door hardtop
So if a 4-door sedan was worth $5K, the 2-door hardtop should be worth $10K and the convertible $20K. And a 2-door sedan or 4-door hardtop maybe $5-7K.
that's a good rule of thumb. Also one should consider "saleability". A 4-door post sedan is a real hard sell under any market conditions, unless maybe if it's a 409 Chevy or a Hemi or something. The 4-door sedans seem to hit a certain "wall" of value, regardless of what they are, or how good a condition they are in. Right around $10,000 seems to be the ceiling for 99% of all 4 door cars.
The reasons are obvious of course---they aren't all that attractive as a rule, and they are generally the most utilitarian and most commmon of offerings from the automaker. All the sexiness has been taken out of the 4-door line of cars from a manufacturer.
You'd think the 4-door hardtop would sell closer to the two-door hardtop but in fact it sells closer to the 4-door sedan. I think the 4-door hardtop is kind of the bargain of the range.
So, now, straighten me out here. The term "hardtop" refers to a car whose top is removable, but the top itself is "hard" - meaning it does not collapse and generally would need to stay at home while the rest of the car traveled without it? Similar, say, to a Bronco or Blazer of days gone by? Then, a convertible is strictly a fold down soft top or could it also be a hard top, if said top stowed down into the car? :sick:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I saw one the other day that was a Bronco F350 - probably a '95 or '96 (wasn't '96 the last year of the Bronco?). It was a 4-door with a good 6' "bed" in it - similar, I would say, to a Suburban of similar vintage. I had never seen one before and did not even realize such a beast existed.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
No, 2 door hardtop in the context we are using it (collectible cars) generally refers to an actual "pillarless" hardtop with a rigid roof and roll down windows with no center post.
What you seem to be referring to is a convertible with either a removable or retractable hardtop.
Usually if you are pricing out old convertibles that had an optional removable hardtop, you'd add a small premium for the removable hardtop (like Mercedes 280SL or Corvette).
Nope... this one was a Bronco. It was a single unit (no separate bed) with a one piece roof (well, it had that sloping transition between fixed and removable top but no separation between cab and bed portions) and was labeled bronco both on the tail and in front of the doors "Bronco" with "F350" below it. The thing was parked in the Sam's Club lot, so I had plenty of time to look it over. Maybe it was a 1-up (seems an odd duck to 1-up though!), but that is what I saw. :confuse:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Ah, gotcha. So that would be like (I think... but I was real young back then) the, um, Charger? my Mom had back in 1980 with two BIG doors and a back seat with these little roll-down windows whose "pillar" rolled down with the window rather than staying fixed.
Interesting. I never knew a pillar could make such a difference in value... :surprise:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Ford didn't build anything like that at the factory. It's a custom job, probably by Centurion. I once saw what was essentially a 1996 F-150 Suburban done by Centurion, and I see an extended-crew-cab dually F-350 around here every so often.
really started to lose its meaning in the 70's. GM was probably the first to muddle it up with its 1973 intermediates, which were referred to as "Colonade Hardtops". Basically, all the cool styles, like the convertible and 2- and 4-door hardtops were dropped, allegedly in anticipation of proposed Federal rollover regulations which, ironically, never materialized.
The remaining styles, the 2-door, 4-door, and wagon, were given frameless door windows which did make them look cleaner, sportier, and a bit more upscale than an equivalent model with a frame around the door windows, but I'm sure it was also cheaper to build. Fewer seals, as the door seal and window seal were one in the same. And I'm sure they saved a bit with not having to build the metal frame around the window. I'm guessing the new style also made it pretty much mandatory that you ordered air conditioning. Glass area on these cars was enormous for the time, much more than the '68-72 models. And on the coupes the rear windows no longer rolled down. On 4-doors they went down about 3/4 of the way, but the 4-doors also had a fixed window in the C-pillar and a huge rear window, so no doubt they still let in alot of heat.
Even though these things were called "hardtops", they did have a B-pillar.
Another trend that started in the 70's was to have a car that looked like a hardtop, with no structural B-pillar, but with stationary rear windows. Examples of this style would be the Lincoln Mark V (some later Mark IVs also had stationary rear windows), the '79-85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera, the Ford Elite, some versions of the Torino, and the LTD-II/Cougar, later versions of the big, pre-downsized Grand Marquis, the '75-58 intermediate Dodge and Plymouth coupes, and the '80-83 Cordoba/Mirada.
The Plymouth Duster/Dodge Demon was also kind of in this category. They had no structural B-pillar, just a little chrome strip that was there for the swing-out rear window to hinge too. In fact, I've seen factory photographs of them with the rear window and the little chrome strip taken out, giving the illusion of a hardtop with the windows rolled down.
There are some 70's cars where I actually prefer the 4-door version to the 2-door, mainly because they were still offering a 4-door hardtop. For instance, the big Electra, 98, and DeVille went to a fixed opera window with a landau roof for '75-76, but the 4-doors were still true hardtops. I think the last "true" domestic hardtops were the 1978 Chrysler Newport and New Yorker. Most of the coupes had a fixed opera window and landau roof, giving them that personal luxury coupe look that was so in vogue back then. A few of them were ordered without that package though, just giving them the standard pillarless hardtop look with a roll-down rear window. Kinda ironic that people would pay a premium for an option that made their back windows NOT roll down. :confuse:
Oh, and to continue the silliness, my 1979 New Yorker is actually considered a "pillared hardtop", a contradictory term if there ever was one. Chrysler even went through the effort to come up with a differen VIN code for the pillared hardtop...42. 41 was their code for conventional 4-door sedan, and 43 was their code for 4-door hardtop.
I'm not sure, but I think the '95-99 Neon, which had frameless door windows, had the 42 code in its VIN.
...how about a hardtop wagon? I'm sure they're quite scarce and skew the values a bit. I love those 1957 Buick hardtop wagons. I believe Chrysler offered hardtop wagons well into the early 1960s.
Comments
It might be a regional thing, but around here it seems like those G-bodies in general are pretty popular, as long as they're not ragged out. They're also the last small-ish, lightweight, easy-to-hot-rod RWD car GM made, so they're a hot commodity for people who want to put a big block in 'em.
it must be Plymouth Day
yesterday's cop cars, today
"This car means the world to me..." :confuse: :sick:
a classic ???
I thought the SUV had killed these off
I've never had a unitized Mopar get bad enough to need work on the subframes, so I'm guessing that it must be really gone underneath. Especially if it's in some fun spot like where the torsion bar attaches.
This is not a car to love. Let it go.... :P
Engine fires are a big issue, too.
If the car is a U.S. model, they don't perform like the UK cars either. American market cars had lower compression and compensated with a higher ratio differential, giving better acceleration with the lower HP USA engine, but reducing top speed to a mere 125 mph or so.
A series 4 car would start with serial # V8SOR/12032 and forward.
That's the one you'd want. A UK model would be great but of course it would probably be a RHD.
In top form they are a great handling and performing car but you need to read up on them and shop very wisely for the best of the best from the AM factory...
Ferraris are quite reliable if you do the services on time. They are just expensive to run (about $1.50 a mile I'd guess) but the Ferrari engine is a bear and you can run the hell out of it. Mostly where Ferrari bites you back in the 1980s is in sheet metal and materials---not the best.
The guy I spoke to owns 2 Volantes, I'm guessing they are Series $ since they are late 80's models.
He also spoke highly of the DBS 6 cyl.
Plus, I just blew around $25-30K (I think...I ended up losing track its construction was so piece-meal) on a garage, and then parked a $900 Chrysler in it! :shades:
But anyway, I purposely did NOT watch the auction until after it ended, just in case I got too tempted to bid. I think the high bid ended up being something like $725. The seller also emailed me back, saying he had two firm offers and expected it to be gone today.
So I'm guessing it'll either end up on eBay again soon, or I'll see it at Carlisle this summer, with some dreamer trying to push it for $3-4,000!
Oh, cruising around the neighborhood yesterday, I saw a 2-tone green '77-79 Coupe DeVil, with no tags on it, parked at the edge of the yard of a house that's for sale. No sign on the car though. Judging from the dust and pollen on it, it appears to have been sitting for awhile. Wonder if I should go see if they want to unload it? Maybe I could offer to just take it off their hands?
1996 Mustang GT Convertible, 4.6 V8 with a 5-speed manual. It is red with a black top and black leather. It has 130,000 miles all by him. He bought it new. He drives a little hard, but doesn't abuse it. In fact he worked his way through college as a car detailer and his car shows it. It looks nearly perfect outside. Inside, it is clean but the leather shows normal wear.
The guy is fanatical maintenance and cleanliness including 3000 mile oil changes, weekly washes, and monthly waxes. If he hears a funny noise, he takes it to the dealer and has the offending part replaced immediately with a new Ford part. In the last month, he put in a new clutch and new tie rods. It got a new top last year. He even replaced all of the center caps for the wheels because he suspected they were getting loose. It has been in a couple of fender benders and had both bumper covers repainted, but the paint looks outstanding. He is selling it just because it is getting expensive for him to remain a perfectionist.
Anyway, his plan is to ask $7,500 and take $7,000. He knows wholesale it is only worth about $3,000, but he has kept it so nice I bet he gets his asking price. I am not a Mustang guy or a convertible guy, but I am really tempted to buy it. I would probably drive it for a year a couple of days a week and then sell it.
What do you guys think?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Look at me, I still have my '69 Econoline and I insist to my wife that I will never part with it. I told her last week that my grandparents were seriously considering a move to a "maintenance by dues" neighborhood so they could get away from yard care and snow removal. She said that if I wanted my grandfather's '76 Ford Ranger, I would have to get rid of my van. I just laughed... but she said, "No, seriously. If you bring that truck home without getting rid of something, I am going to leave you." I laughed again and said, "Hey, if our relationship means that little to you, by all means go." Of course I was just kidding with her, but in the end she compromised and said that she was okay with the truck if I got rid of the '69 Banner camper for my '69 C20. Done.... I have been just waiting for a really good excuse to axe that old heap. :P
Maybe I should by this 'Stang instead. Any car painted entirely with bedliner must be a real sturdy vehicle.
I have wanted to buy an old CJ-7 or CJ-5 and cover the whole thing in Rhino bedliner both inside and out. That way when i get it all messed up on the trail I can just hose out the inside and if a fender gets crumpled up just hammer it back into shape and put more rhino liner on it.
$5k KILLS that car.
Lotus: A British car with a Renault engine---swell. People over 5'8" need not apply.
Also, since you are my size, how well can you fit into various Ferraris - 308s and such?
They tended to have junky interiors that fell apart very easily, and the same goes for all the plastic stuff on the exterior. So anybody who bought that Z34 would probably have to baby it to keep it looking good.
Also, the 3.4 DOHC was a good performer, but could be troubleprone and expensive to fix when it did break. It was actually based on the pushrod 2.8/3.1, and once the DOHC was dropped, a pushrod 3.4 stuck around.
Once GM got the 3800 up to about 200 hp without supercharging, that engine replaced the DOHC 3.4 in most applications. It got better fuel economy and didn't give up much in 0-60 times, but it wasn't nearly as responsive and fun to drive at higher speeds.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I don't think I have ever seen one in person. I wonder how much it is worth.
From my youth, I remember this TVR as being a much better looking vehicle.
Case in point: there's this owner who has a '55 Chevrolet done in a special commemorative paint to acknowledge that in 1955 Chevy built its 50 millionth car. So they painted 5,000 4-door sedans in this special gold color. That's it, nothing else was done to the cars. So, it's rare, and there's history, but hey, it's a 4-door sedan with no AC, no conti kit, no special chrome options, etc. Who would pay as much for it as they would for a restored Bel Air hardtop or convertible? Very very few people, if any.
Ferraris: Italian cars are generally really good for bigger guys once you get used to the preferred Italian driving position. They like to drive with arms fully extended so they don't have to cross wrists while steering. At Ferrari speeds, this makes sense. 328s are my favorite "affordable" older Ferrari.
So they didn't come with any interior upgrades, either?
One car I always get a kick out of, because people often think it's something rare and special, is the 1956 DeSoto Seville. This was actually a stripper package on the 1956 Firedome 2- and 4-door hardtops, that was about $100-200 less, and had a cheaper interior. But I guess people see that "Seville" badging and think they have a treasure!
I dunno if value guides deduct for the "Seville" package or not, though.
So I'd say a "gold commemorative" '55 Chevy 4-door cannot sell for more than a nice driver 2-door '55 hardtop...so that puts us at around $20K--$25K max for a beautifully restored 4-door V8 with good options. I myself wouldn't give over $12,000 for it.
So if a 4-door sedan was worth $5K, the 2-door hardtop should be worth $10K and the convertible $20K. And a 2-door sedan or 4-door hardtop maybe $5-7K.
The reasons are obvious of course---they aren't all that attractive as a rule, and they are generally the most utilitarian and most commmon of offerings from the automaker. All the sexiness has been taken out of the 4-door line of cars from a manufacturer.
You'd think the 4-door hardtop would sell closer to the two-door hardtop but in fact it sells closer to the 4-door sedan. I think the 4-door hardtop is kind of the bargain of the range.
What you seem to be referring to is a convertible with either a removable or retractable hardtop.
Usually if you are pricing out old convertibles that had an optional removable hardtop, you'd add a small premium for the removable hardtop (like Mercedes 280SL or Corvette).
What you saw was a F-350 crew cab, short bed or something similar.
Interesting. I never knew a pillar could make such a difference in value... :surprise:
The remaining styles, the 2-door, 4-door, and wagon, were given frameless door windows which did make them look cleaner, sportier, and a bit more upscale than an equivalent model with a frame around the door windows, but I'm sure it was also cheaper to build. Fewer seals, as the door seal and window seal were one in the same. And I'm sure they saved a bit with not having to build the metal frame around the window. I'm guessing the new style also made it pretty much mandatory that you ordered air conditioning. Glass area on these cars was enormous for the time, much more than the '68-72 models. And on the coupes the rear windows no longer rolled down. On 4-doors they went down about 3/4 of the way, but the 4-doors also had a fixed window in the C-pillar and a huge rear window, so no doubt they still let in alot of heat.
Even though these things were called "hardtops", they did have a B-pillar.
Another trend that started in the 70's was to have a car that looked like a hardtop, with no structural B-pillar, but with stationary rear windows. Examples of this style would be the Lincoln Mark V (some later Mark IVs also had stationary rear windows), the '79-85 Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera, the Ford Elite, some versions of the Torino, and the LTD-II/Cougar, later versions of the big, pre-downsized Grand Marquis, the '75-58 intermediate Dodge and Plymouth coupes, and the '80-83 Cordoba/Mirada.
The Plymouth Duster/Dodge Demon was also kind of in this category. They had no structural B-pillar, just a little chrome strip that was there for the swing-out rear window to hinge too. In fact, I've seen factory photographs of them with the rear window and the little chrome strip taken out, giving the illusion of a hardtop with the windows rolled down.
There are some 70's cars where I actually prefer the 4-door version to the 2-door, mainly because they were still offering a 4-door hardtop. For instance, the big Electra, 98, and DeVille went to a fixed opera window with a landau roof for '75-76, but the 4-doors were still true hardtops. I think the last "true" domestic hardtops were the 1978 Chrysler Newport and New Yorker. Most of the coupes had a fixed opera window and landau roof, giving them that personal luxury coupe look that was so in vogue back then. A few of them were ordered without that package though, just giving them the standard pillarless hardtop look with a roll-down rear window. Kinda ironic that people would pay a premium for an option that made their back windows NOT roll down. :confuse:
Oh, and to continue the silliness, my 1979 New Yorker is actually considered a "pillared hardtop", a contradictory term if there ever was one. Chrysler even went through the effort to come up with a differen VIN code for the pillared hardtop...42. 41 was their code for conventional 4-door sedan, and 43 was their code for 4-door hardtop.
I'm not sure, but I think the '95-99 Neon, which had frameless door windows, had the 42 code in its VIN.
And a 420SEL for Fintail - $17K in receipts.
While I am at it a 164S for Shifty.
And a Nash for whoever wants it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S