are a somewhat recent phenomenon with regards to desireability. It seems not that long ago that you could barely give them away. They were like maybe a step or two below a 4-door sedan, and people mainly looked to them as parts cars and donor cars. They usually had bigger engines and often beefier transmissions and quicker rear ends, so that made them desireable to cannibalize and put the parts into another car.
Nowadays though, it seems like wagons have really shot up in popularity. Personally, I wouldn't pay any more for one than I would its 4-door sedan counterpart (I might have to make an exception for some of the cooler hardtop wagons though), but it seems there are people who would.
As for that Duster, hey, for $100 I'd take it! Especially with the 318! By 1975 standards that's a musclecar! :P
I like this 1977 Grand LeMans. And it's not that far away. The biggest downside of it, IMO, is the engine. The ad doesn't list the displacement, but I did a VIN decode, and if I did it correctly, it has a 301. I've heard that the 301 is just not a durable engine and can't take much abuse, but supposedly if you take care of it, it'll run on forever. I guess you could make a blanket statement like that about any engine, though.
And even though it's a 4-door, I always liked the style of these. The brown color makes me think a bit of Buford T. Justice's '77 LeMans in the first "Smokey and the Bandit".
Hmmm restored 126...probably a worse idea than restoring a fintail. When someone lists things like license plate frame and windshield wipers on his restoration list, I wonder.
You'd think if someone were to actually 'restore' a 420SEL, which at this point is just a used car, they'd re-paint it a more attractive color (black? charcoal gray?) than Light Ivory (incorrectly referred to as cream beige, which was actually an MB interior color, often seen with my favorite exterior color of the era, Smoke Silver). Oh, and put the trunk insignias back on the correct (that is, left) side (I HATE that). Congratulations, sir, you've just put $17k into a car now worth $7k.
It looks like I did a fine job of talking some sense into my friend. A portion of his email to me this morning:
did some further research yesterday, and have decided to list my car for $8500. You would not believe how many 96 GT convertibles were going for that price or more with various mileage. Most were automatics, and showed significant wear in various places ..I saw a GT with more than my mileage going for almost 10,000! I am not going to push that envelope because of my mileage, but I think 8500 is fair.
Well he might get lucky and have someone pay over market---but weird deals high or low don't set the market. If he's a good BS-er then he might get his price---sounds like he is a good salesman and can spread some pixie dust over the buyer's eyes.
To be fair, you can't really price a car accurately until you eyeball it, but this car better be flawless in/out/sideways to even approach that price.
that Olds 98! If it were closer, I'd be tempted to take a look. As for the Mark V, my interest in these kind of comes and goes. I love their style, but after a buddy of mine bought two of them and I actually got to ride in them and drive one, I kind of fell out of love with them, I guess. It kinda served as a wakeup call. That one on Craigslist looks pretty nice, though.
It seems that with the Mark V, color can make all the difference in the world to me. If I see one in the right shade of blue or green, I'll almost melt for it. For intance, my buddy's two Mark V's are both Diamond Jubilees with a light, icy metallic blue paint, matching blue landau top, and a light blue fabric interior. But in some of the more period 70's colors, or with a gaudy enough interior, it just doesn't do it for me.
But then something like a '75-76 Electra/Ninety-Eight, '76-77 LeMans, or Mopar R-body, the color probably wouldn't affect me unless it was something truly grotesque.
1,000 miles in 20 years? Have to wonder (out of sheer curiosity) why they even had it! It seems like that low of mileage would be worse than actually using it a little bit.
I look at some of these old cars and actually think, "I'd like to own that," but I have too much respect for their currently *good* condition. I might maintain them mechanically well, but I know they would visually deteriorate in my hands....
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I've never been into those tiny little 2-seat things, I've always kinda liked the Sunbeam Tiger and Alpine. I don't know if it's because I grew up watching "Get Smart" or what? :shades:
And as God as my witness, I swear that's NOT my yard! They don't let house trailers in this county! :P
Actually, at a quick glance, the blue Ton-Car doesn't look TOO bad. Except for the one pic where it looks like there's a couple season's worth of leaves in the engine compartment, down around the hood opening.
There was a guy at Carlisle a few years back selling a pair of Town Cars. He wanted $1000 for the set, and they were in much better shape than those two!
if he DIDN'T clean the stuff out of the cars! Who knows what treasures you might find buried in there! I see a chainsaw in the trunk of one of them.
The guy mentioned how the engines in the cars would be good for hotrodding. Is there really anything useful you can do with a 400 of that vintage? I know they only had about 159-166 hp in stock form, but is it a good, sturdy block for building up?
I was thinking the same thing. I've never heard of anyone doing anything hot rod wise with a Ford 400. A 460 maybe. I've seen a few Chevy 400's in hot rods.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
from the same big-block family as the 390, 429, and 460? And maybe the bigger 351 (Cleveland?) Maybe if you strip all the emissions junk off of it and put a decent cam and carb on it, it might clean up some?
I really like that '66 Jetstar! big Oldsmobiles from around 1965-68 seemed to have really upscale interiors, and even though it was sparsely instrumented, I always liked that dash style. That shade of turquoise seems like it was pretty common on Oldsmobiles of that time. I've seen an occasional Pontiac in that hue as well, but it seems like it was comparatively rare on a full-sized Buick or Chevy.
How would something like that perform? I'm guessing that 330 is a 2-bbl, with maybe 250-260 hp gross? I know the 2-speed automatic tended to really hurt performance on the smaller engines, like say a Chevy with a 283/307, but would something like this have enough torque to overcome that? The last car I drove with a 2-speed automatic was a 1958 DeSoto Firesweep, but I'm sure it was lighter than a '66 Olds. Plus, it had a 350 wedge with something like 280-290 hp, so it had no trouble getting out of its own way!
$400 maybe if he didn't clean it out. It looks like he has a chainsaw and some other useful stuff in it.
This guy originally wanted $6800 on Autotrader for this 944. He then put it on eBay with a reserve of $5100. Now he has sent me a second chance at $4600. I am leaning against it because he doesn't know anything about the last timing belt/water pump service. Is he low enough yet?
someone really needs to hold me back and cut off my access to eBay, so I quit finding tempting things like this!
If I hadn't bought my '76 Grand LeMans last year, I think I'd already be in the bidding on this one! Even though the interior's a bit more basic and less-optioned than mine. I LOVE the color combination, though! The only thing that bugs me about this one is that the car looks nice for the most part, and then under the hood it looks all dirty and dusty, and the master cylinder looks like it's rusty.
I guess the bidding is getting a bit high on it, though.
I think he has to come down on the price some more. The cheesy paint job ($1,600? Maybe to paint a dumster!) devalues the car and probably will fall off on the first bump. So that's one issue. Other than that, best you can do is have it checked out. Remember, repairs on this car are very VERY expensive... a timing belt and water pump could easily nail you $1,500. Still, if it checks out, and you can put enough padding in the selling price to allow yourself a quick $2000 in maintenance, you might be okay. They are very good handling cars, equal of any modern automobile.
I also have been emailing a guy about a nice red '86 944 all original and in good 'used car' shape. It has 112,000 miles and only 3k on the timing belt/water pump. He has come down from $6800 to $6200 without me asking. He doesn't want to come down much more because he isn't willing to lose money on the car (spurious reasoning as that may be).
If he can't get what he wants for the 944, he will try to sell his '76 2.0 914 said to be appraised by Automobile Atlanta at $8500 (don't know what he would want for it).
Well you know $5,500--$6,500 seems to be the going rate for clean "needs nothing" type 944 drivers up to 1987 models. The only time you can get any more than that is if you upgrade the 944 to newer specs, offer a newer 944 (1988 on up) or put on all kinds of delicious expensive goodies on the early cars.
Automobile Atlanta is in no impartial position to appraise a 914 since they are dealers in those cars. It would have to be one spectacular 914 for that kind of money, but it's possible to get that for a real stunner.
I think about $6,500 is all the money for 99% of the early 944s or all 1.7 & 1.8 914s you'll see for sale. Later 944 turbos and S2s and of course S2 cabriolets can pull more money. 86-87 models are worth a little more than 83-85s. For the 914s, 1.7 and 1.8 liter are worth the same, and 2.0 liters are worth $1K more.
I myself would take a 944 "S" + turbo and pay the additional $$$ to get that, maybe up to $12,000 for a beauty or higher for a highly modified one. A well-equipped, well-done 944 turbo will match the performance of just about any modern car on the road today.
I also am thinking of raising my price ceiling and going to look at a so-called perfect 1986 944 Turbo with 86,000 miles for $11,000. Is that a decent deal if I could get it for less than $10,000?
Also, the paper has an '88 Turbo S at $12,000. These cars in general seem better maintained than the base 944s, maybe because they are still a little higher than the 'beater' price range.
I almost bought one of those new, although I think it was an '87 (not 16V), but a GTI of that body style.
If it really is that clean, and PS pump isn't too much money, I would take a flyer on it. I would rather drive that for the money instead of a crapped out echo.
For people who think '90s Civics will be collectible one day because the 'Fast and Furious' crowd likes them, take a look at that GTI price. Watercooled VWs were all the rage for a lot of the generation X crowd. Nobody seems to care about them at all now. Reallly fun to drive, but compared to modern cars they have very little power and are unreliable. Maybe I am wrong; maybe they just need a few more years to come back up in price. But, I doubt it.
Regardless, I still wouldn't mind having an '81 Scirocco S with a later 16V engine in it. I just wouldn't be willing to pay much for it.
Dogs? That is kind of a stretch for a car that does 0-60 in 6 seconds and tops out over 150 mph.
That being said, I would much prefer a manual.
Here is some more info on that 914 I previously mentioned. It looks perfect in pictures (not that means much), but here is the commentary -
This 914 came from Boise Idaho and was stored for a number of years. It drives very good. The sync is starting to go in 2nd gear and occasionally a little blue smoke from the right cylinders when I down shift hard, it drives great. (it also leaks a little oil). It was painted once about 15 yrs ago. I have started working on the rust in the rear trunk which is just surface rust and is limited to the trunks and one or two small spots under the paint, and both floor board at the rear where it is welded to the fire wall has begun to rust. Auto Atlanta suggested that I have that welded, and not replace the entire floorboard. They appraised it at $8.500.00. I have put new struts and shocks on it.
The "appraisal" is absurd beyond belief. I wouldn't give him $1,500 for a 914 in that condition. I wouldn't give him $8,500 for a 1990 911 in that condition. All he needs is a transmission rebuild ($5000) and new pistons, barrels and rings, and welding of a unibody !! frame.
Geez, I'll find you a spotlessly clean 914 with a rebuilt engine for that price.
as an unmolested '93 300ZX! :surprise: When I delivered pizzas, our district manager had one. One of those types of kids that gets promoted too quickly because he's book smart and could recite company policy in his sleep, but when it came to common sense and dealing with people, he needed a bit more schooling.
I remember one day I yelled at someone out in the parking lot because they ran a stop sign and almost whacked my then-new Intrepid. He said he could hear me yelling all the way down at the 7-Eleven, where he was hanging out. He was a bit miffed that I did that, but I told him that out there in the parking lot, you do something stupid that endangers my life, and I WILL call you on it. Plus, that's the same parking lot that sent my '86 Monte Carlo to junkyard heaven. He didn't seem to care, but then a few days later, someone ran a stop sign in that same parking lot and creamed him in his Z!
Needless to say, he apologized after that. :shades:
This was back in 2000, and even back then, that Z of his was pretty ragged out. Even before the T-bone.
Nice looking car---downside is incredibly complex car that is expensive to repair, and it'll suck gas pretty good. I'd certainly give one a rigorous mechanical inspection, and if it passes, I'd do it again. One major repair on this car and you are upside down for life.
The automatic might be a better choice, as this is more of a GT car than a sports car, and an auto trans might not have been flogged as much as a 5-speed. I'm not even sure you could get an automatic TT, but I presume so.
Road & Track had a used car classic on the final 300ZXs in which one of there experts recommended an automatic 2+2 above all others, as it wasn't as complex as a turbo and not likely to have been abused as a turbo or a 5-speed.
Andre is right; I think all the turbos have been molested. I guess I meant unmodified. I wonder how many "unmodified" turbo cars just have their chips and boost controllers removed right before they place an ad in the paper.
Comments
Nowadays though, it seems like wagons have really shot up in popularity. Personally, I wouldn't pay any more for one than I would its 4-door sedan counterpart (I might have to make an exception for some of the cooler hardtop wagons though), but it seems there are people who would.
As for that Duster, hey, for $100 I'd take it! Especially with the 318! By 1975 standards that's a musclecar! :P
And even though it's a 4-door, I always liked the style of these. The brown color makes me think a bit of Buford T. Justice's '77 LeMans in the first "Smokey and the Bandit".
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Might be more prudent to buy something like this, drive til it dies, and use as a parts car
did some further research yesterday, and have decided to list my car for $8500. You would not believe how many 96 GT convertibles were going for that price or more with various mileage. Most were automatics, and showed significant wear in various places ..I saw a GT with more than my mileage going for almost 10,000! I am not going to push that envelope because of my mileage, but I think 8500 is fair.
He clearly confuses askin' with gettin' prices.
To be fair, you can't really price a car accurately until you eyeball it, but this car better be flawless in/out/sideways to even approach that price.
I could see Andre in this
Or even this
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
It seems that with the Mark V, color can make all the difference in the world to me. If I see one in the right shade of blue or green, I'll almost melt for it. For intance, my buddy's two Mark V's are both Diamond Jubilees with a light, icy metallic blue paint, matching blue landau top, and a light blue fabric interior. But in some of the more period 70's colors, or with a gaudy enough interior, it just doesn't do it for me.
But then something like a '75-76 Electra/Ninety-Eight, '76-77 LeMans, or Mopar R-body, the color probably wouldn't affect me unless it was something truly grotesque.
This seems familiar somehow...but it looks like a nice old beast for the money
I've seen the same color combination on a Checker passenger car that lives in my town. It also has opera windows.
I just happen to like these, although I wonder how many are left that weren't turned into TIger clones?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I look at some of these old cars and actually think, "I'd like to own that," but I have too much respect for their currently *good* condition. I might maintain them mechanically well, but I know they would visually deteriorate in my hands....
Actually, at a quick glance, the blue Ton-Car doesn't look TOO bad. Except for the one pic where it looks like there's a couple season's worth of leaves in the engine compartment, down around the hood opening.
There was a guy at Carlisle a few years back selling a pair of Town Cars. He wanted $1000 for the set, and they were in much better shape than those two!
The guy mentioned how the engines in the cars would be good for hotrodding. Is there really anything useful you can do with a 400 of that vintage? I know they only had about 159-166 hp in stock form, but is it a good, sturdy block for building up?
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
How would something like that perform? I'm guessing that 330 is a 2-bbl, with maybe 250-260 hp gross? I know the 2-speed automatic tended to really hurt performance on the smaller engines, like say a Chevy with a 283/307, but would something like this have enough torque to overcome that? The last car I drove with a 2-speed automatic was a 1958 DeSoto Firesweep, but I'm sure it was lighter than a '66 Olds. Plus, it had a 350 wedge with something like 280-290 hp, so it had no trouble getting out of its own way!
This guy originally wanted $6800 on Autotrader for this 944. He then put it on eBay with a reserve of $5100. Now he has sent me a second chance at $4600. I am leaning against it because he doesn't know anything about the last timing belt/water pump service. Is he low enough yet?
You figuring on having it inspected by a Porsche expert?
What I do in a case like this, since you don't know when the service was done, assume you have to do it, and factor that into the price.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If I hadn't bought my '76 Grand LeMans last year, I think I'd already be in the bidding on this one! Even though the interior's a bit more basic and less-optioned than mine. I LOVE the color combination, though! The only thing that bugs me about this one is that the car looks nice for the most part, and then under the hood it looks all dirty and dusty, and the master cylinder looks like it's rusty.
I guess the bidding is getting a bit high on it, though.
If he can't get what he wants for the 944, he will try to sell his '76 2.0 914 said to be appraised by Automobile Atlanta at $8500 (don't know what he would want for it).
Automobile Atlanta is in no impartial position to appraise a 914 since they are dealers in those cars. It would have to be one spectacular 914 for that kind of money, but it's possible to get that for a real stunner.
I think about $6,500 is all the money for 99% of the early 944s or all 1.7 & 1.8 914s you'll see for sale. Later 944 turbos and S2s and of course S2 cabriolets can pull more money. 86-87 models are worth a little more than 83-85s. For the 914s, 1.7 and 1.8 liter are worth the same, and 2.0 liters are worth $1K more.
I myself would take a 944 "S" + turbo and pay the additional $$$ to get that, maybe up to $12,000 for a beauty or higher for a highly modified one. A well-equipped, well-done 944 turbo will match the performance of just about any modern car on the road today.
Also, the paper has an '88 Turbo S at $12,000. These cars in general seem better maintained than the base 944s, maybe because they are still a little higher than the 'beater' price range.
Personally I think an S2 is the way to go. You get about 217 HP, which is close to the turbo (but not the turbo S), without all the turbo hassles.
A turbo S is a screamer, putting you 0-60 in the low 5s.
Not many unthrashed examples of these left
If it really is that clean, and PS pump isn't too much money, I would take a flyer on it. I would rather drive that for the money instead of a crapped out echo.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
i was just about to email the GTi to the wife and suggest we buy that and drive it for a while ... then i remembered to check where it was located.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Regardless, I still wouldn't mind having an '81 Scirocco S with a later 16V engine in it. I just wouldn't be willing to pay much for it.
Find a stick.
That being said, I would much prefer a manual.
Here is some more info on that 914 I previously mentioned. It looks perfect in pictures (not that means much), but here is the commentary -
This 914 came from Boise Idaho and was stored for
a number of years. It drives very good. The sync is starting to go in
2nd gear and occasionally a little blue smoke from the right cylinders
when I down shift hard, it drives great. (it also leaks a little oil).
It was painted once about 15 yrs ago. I have started working on the
rust in the rear trunk which is just surface rust and is limited to the
trunks and one or two small spots under the paint, and both floor board
at the rear where it is welded to the fire wall has begun to rust. Auto
Atlanta suggested that I have that welded, and not replace the entire
floorboard. They appraised it at $8.500.00. I have put new struts and
shocks on it.
That is going to cost a bundle to make right, unless you just decide to drive it until it craps out. If so, 8.5K is way too much to pay.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Geez, I'll find you a spotlessly clean 914 with a rebuilt engine for that price.
I remember one day I yelled at someone out in the parking lot because they ran a stop sign and almost whacked my then-new Intrepid. He said he could hear me yelling all the way down at the 7-Eleven, where he was hanging out. He was a bit miffed that I did that, but I told him that out there in the parking lot, you do something stupid that endangers my life, and I WILL call you on it. Plus, that's the same parking lot that sent my '86 Monte Carlo to junkyard heaven. He didn't seem to care, but then a few days later, someone ran a stop sign in that same parking lot and creamed him in his Z!
Needless to say, he apologized after that. :shades:
This was back in 2000, and even back then, that Z of his was pretty ragged out. Even before the T-bone.
Nice looking car---downside is incredibly complex car that is expensive to repair, and it'll suck gas pretty good. I'd certainly give one a rigorous mechanical inspection, and if it passes, I'd do it again. One major repair on this car and you are upside down for life.
The automatic might be a better choice, as this is more of a GT car than a sports car, and an auto trans might not have been flogged as much as a 5-speed. I'm not even sure you could get an automatic TT, but I presume so.
Andre is right; I think all the turbos have been molested. I guess I meant unmodified. I wonder how many "unmodified" turbo cars just have their chips and boost controllers removed right before they place an ad in the paper.