Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

I think you're thinking of the Northstar engine hassles with the starter motor. With the 4.9 it's not so bad to work on the engine. Still, if it has a funky digital dash or other electrical gremlins, it could be a problematic car.

xwesx

This is my grandmother's car. Since my grandfather passed away last week, she's looking tooff-load it. Everything on it is digital. It even has things I didn't know existed back then, such as mpg avg and instantaneous.

She's being stubborn about the car right now, but I told her it is fine if she wants to hang on to it because it isn't likely to depreciate any further!

tjc78

think you're thinking of the Northstar engine hassles with the starter motor. With the 4.9 it's not so bad to work on the engine

I thought the 4.9 was a typo. I could have sworn 92+ Sevilles were all 4.6 Northstars! Damn, my one time to be wrong this year happened in January!!

Mr_Shiftright

"but I told her it is fine if she wants to hang on to it because it isn't likely to depreciate any further!"

Oh yeah it could, especially if anything electronic goes wrong with it.

Nothing is spurned in the marketplace like an ailing old luxury sedan.

xwesx

The STS has a 4.6, the standard Seville has a 4.9.

andre1969

From what I've heard, the Caddy 4.9, and the 4.5 version, are pretty rugged...so vastly improved that it's hard to believe that they're based on the old troubleprone 4.1 from 1982!

My grandmother's cousin has an '89 Coupe DeVille with the 4.5 that's still running strong, despite years of abuse, neglect, and inadequate money to take proper care of it. I have no idea how many miles are on it...I'd guess maybe 110-120K, so not a huge amount.

She had me drive it around a few months ago, to charge up the battery, and I was impressed at how nice the engine sounds. It has a nice, gutsy V-8 grumble to it, even though it's not all that fast. Sounds a lot better than the 3.8 in my Park Ave, that's for sure! Rides better than my Park Ave, too.

lemko

My 1994 Cadillac DeVille had a 4.9 litre V-8. It was a highly durable engine and the car was remarkably fast despite its mere 200-hp rating. Good fuel economy is also a plus!

stickguy

that is, enough beer + power tools = some really odd results. As if 454 C.I. wasn't enough?

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/3572661366.html

fintail

Yikes. Took something a lot stronger than beer to come up with that idea.

qbrozen

wow that's lacking information

andre1969

I've seen a few conversions of final-gen Eldorados that did something similar, where they'd throw a second Northstar in the trunk to power the rear wheels. I think there was actually a company that was doing it, for awhile.

Mr_Shiftright

I expected to see some script on the fender with the name "Death Trap".

bhill2

I expected to see some script on the fender with the name "Death Trap".

Now let's be fair. It's four-wheel drive; doesn't that count for something?

Mr_Shiftright

Examination of the construction techniques did not inspire my confidence.

bhill2

You've got a point. It would not be a good thing to have it convert from four-wheel drive to two-wheel drive because two of the wheels (and associated drive train) fell off.

fintail

A twin for my car, albeit more aged...I'd like to have that headrest anyway

Color name - "kermit"?

Definite period piece, nice condition, shame about the fault

Suddenly it's 1991!

Seldom seen flat top

Expensive restored fintail, wrong about the year

Freakshow

Would be cool restored

Lovely W115

Nice hubcaps

This might be a better deal for the tin can shopper

Nice glasshouse

Lawn ornament

I'll admit I like this, seller probably wants the moon for it

A real G-Wagen

Ford bustle

Classy beater, Euro model too

CRV's great-grandfather

Mr_Shiftright

Honda AWD wagon---that would be a nice car to have!

500 SEL -- money pit

Ferrari 400i--- actually it's the cheapest Ferrari money can buy. Ferrari miles are like dog years--if a Ferrari has over 30,000 on it, that is considered extremely high. A 400i that's nice should sell for no more than $20,000 to $32,000 tops.

Corvair Rampside -- another sleeper that's worth restoring.

Mercedes 200 Fintail---the seller is crazy. Might be worth 1/2 that.

73 Montego -- the car misses the cut-off date for most people's interest (1971) but really if it's nice and clean, rebuilding the transmission is no big deal. Car might definitely be worth the money!

81 Lancia Beta---recycle for Turkish teapot industry.

1960 Olds 4DHT -- if it's a #4 car, which it sounds like, it's worth about 1/2 asking price.

xwesx

Agree on the Civic wagon. I'd love to have that car.

bhill2

The 300D caught my eye because I almost bought one just that year and model. It was in 1978 and I was living in Richland WA and driving a Volvo that was ready to be replaced. The local Volvo dealer also sold Saab, Datsun, and I think John Deere tractors, so I was reluctant to buy another. I happened to notice that the Mercedes dealer in Spokane (about 150 miles away) had this car, which had been traded in by a couple who went with a 300SD when they first came out. I went up and drove it and loved it (it wasn't exactly a rocket, but then I was driving a Volvo). I didn't buy it because I didn't want to have to take it up there for service. Found out later that there was an independent shop in Richland that people came from Spokane to have service performed on their Mercedes. I have always regretted not buying that car. Got a Scirocco instead (go figure). It was a good enough car, but not my style.

fintail

Spokane - Sutherland Motors? I was born in Yakima and grew up in Moses Lake, still remember the old dealer names. I think Hahn had the Yakima MB agency, I don't know if Tri-Cities had one yet (back in the 80s anyway). I am still kind of amazed how many MBs there were out in the high desert back then, with dealers being pretty far away. My interest was started with a two tone highline fintail that lived across the street from me, and a doctor my parents knew who had a W126 300SD that somehow interested me. The rest is history :shades:

I like that 300D a lot, if it is as nice in person as it looks in pics. Great colors.

qbrozen

I really like the 2002 and the brown b210.

bhill2

I don't know if Tri-Cities had one yet (back in the 80s anyway).

In fact, it was in the late '70s and I will guarantee you there was no MB dealer in the Tri-Cities.

At the time, driving the 300D was a revelation to this small-town boy. I thought the Volvo handled well, which it did relative to the domestic offerings of the time. But one of my coworkers had come with me (just to get out of the Tri-Cities for a day) and at one point during the test drive I was doing about 60 down a semi-paved road and she wasn't even aware anything unusual was going on. I fell in love with that car and if I had known about the independent mechanic in Richland I would have kissed my Volvo goodbye and left in the 300D without a backward glance.

texases

"I really like the 2002 and the brown b210. "

Couldn't pick two more different vehicles...that 2002 caught my attention, too, but I'd sure prefer a small bumper one. And the later wheels just don't do it for me.

fintail

I remember being in the Tri-Cities and noticing a MB dealer maybe i the early 90s, but not before. That area has really grown in the past 20-25 years, different from when I was a little kid. Yakima and ML are very different now too.

If you had bought that car, you very well might still own it - they last forever, and are immune from racing-created crashes.

Mr_Shiftright

I sometimes miss my 300D, but you know, nostalgia is nature's way of allowing us to few the best parts of our past lives without falling into despair.

Once diesel fuel skyrocketed in California, it didn't seem worth it to keep up with the 300D---despite all the mythologies, if you want to drive this car on modern freeways you have to have your foot into it all the time, and that means on a good day you'll get 21 mpg. Not bad for a big car actually, if you aren't in a hurry.

I think the day I decided to get rid of it was up in Lake Tahoe, at high altitude. I was parked on a hill, and even in low gear, the car simply would not move. There was not enough power to overcome the uphill inertia. I had to back down to level ground and charge the hill.

hpmctorque

Those 300Ds looked good back in the day, and they still look good. However, from what you've written in the past, their reputation for durability may be somewhat overblown. From your past comments one gets the impression that a Honda Accord may last just as long, if properly maintained (my comparison). That's a big "if", though, because those old 300Ds generally tend to be treated to better maintenance than old Accords. The 300Ds sure age better than the Accords, though.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly---their durability myth is tied to their excellent build quality...they look good for a long, long time, and consequently people are encouraged to pour money into them.

If you shop for a 300D, I'd bet you any amount of money you'll have to drive 25 of them to find one that is even in halfway decent mechanical condition.

They have the ability to be "walking wounded"--being fairly simply machines, they can stagger along for decades, smoking, ailing, with half their systems inoperative, and the driver bragging "yeah, they run forever".

And they do, sort of.

But to find one in acceptable running and cosmetic order? Well, lotsa luck with that.

hpmctorque

I wonder whether two of the reasons they seem to age better, visually, than their high volume counterparts are because of their luxury image, and that you see them less often. Would they age better than Accords if their prices and volumes were reversed?

Mr_Shiftright

that's hard to say---some of them haven't aged well at all, and others, that look great, have had substantial amounts of money poured into them.

I guess it really depends on who owned them, and for how long. if a 300D falls into the hands of someone cooking up peanut oil in their garage, you know the car is probably not going to get the best of care.

fintail

If the Accord also had the same build/material quality, maybe. But many of them didn't, especially the pre-82 models. IMO, the Accord wasn't really overdone until the 1990+ model.