Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

not even close in build quality.

I don't mind automotive mythology---I even like it. I just won't spend money based on it.

fintail

I guess it depends on the car. I'd spend 6K on a pristine 76 300D before I'd spend it on a pristine 76 Accord, even if both have a rep for being very solid.

hpmctorque

I'm in full agreement with you on this. I've never heard of anyone who restored an Accord, or even put more than a modest amount more than the market value in one. The latter could happen for a transmission repair, if the owner liked his Accord and wanted to keep it, but it's far more likely to happen with a 300D.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think an old Accord has any particular mythology attached to it.

fintail

Well, they have a huge rep for being reliable and durable (in the right climate anyway), especially for the era. Does any car have the mythology of an old MB diesel?

fintail

There might be some nuts out there preserving or restoring 1st gen cars, and certainly someone somewhere will end up spending more than they should. But I think most would spend elsewhere. A cosmetically nice old MB will generate a little irrational loyalty, I know this firsthand :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

It's the SD you really want, not the D.

fintail

My preferred diesel would be a W126 300SD turbo, with a W123 300 TD (turbo/wagon) second.

hpmctorque

Well, yeah, there's always the exception, but as well designed and executed as those old Accords are (and the newer and new ones too), they're to be used up and scrapped when they get miled up. Most MBs, BMWs, muscle cars and some others retain their cache' much longer, so spending money on them is easier to justify. Well preserved late '70s-early '80s Accords have cache' by virtue of their memory and scarcity value.

fintail

That's true. It seems many MBs also languish for longer in parts car condition, as they tend to be broken up and stripped rather than crushed as a whole. The cachet and mythology at work.

Certainly a mint 76 Accord is rarer than a mint 76 MB. First gen cars are pretty rare as a whole, anymore.

lemko

I will probably be able to find a 1976 Mercedes in mint condition long before I find ANY 1976 Accord in any condition around here. There was a 300D for sale a couple blocks over from my place. I was considering buying it until I found out it would be slower than molasses in January above the arctic circle.

fintail

There are some first gen cars still around here. I remember a very early Accord in town when I was a teenager (90s), old people car, it looked brand new. I suspect it is still there.

Oh, a 300D is molasses in May. A 240D is molasses in January. And a 190D fintail or even older diesel - cold tar.

Mr_Shiftright

I doubt if many 1976 Accords even exist anymore....perhaps a handful stashed somewhere.

boomchek

$5k for a 1964 Continental Convertible but it looks like it needs everything.

1964 Continental on Craiglist

I'd paint it black as I think it's a more desirable color for these cars but I'm guessing mechanicals could be $5k on the low side, paint and body $10k, and interior another $4k? I'd be in it for about $25k if I'm lucky, maybe better off buying a resotred one already?

texases

I guess "beauties" are in the eye of the beholder...and I wonder where somedody can find a new or rebuilt "corroborator"...

I bet it'd be $0.50 on the dollar, restoration costs vs. eventual sales price...

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, you're looking at $60,000 easy to restore this car. This is a large, complicated automobile, with very expensive parts and lots of rare intricate parts that have to be hand-restored.

Im thinking more like

Mechanicals---$12,000 (engine, trans, differential, suspension, brakes, power steering, power brakes, radiator, wiring harness, driveshaft, wheel bearings, springs)

Body and Paint---$18,000 (strip to bare metal, remove all glass and trim, remove interior, remove top, strip dashboard and instruments, steering out, body off, rust repairs, metal fabrication, paint)

Interior -- $8000 (leather upholstery, door panels, carpeting, kick panels, dash

chrome -- $6000

Top -- $3000 -- includes overhaul of top mechanism

Misc -- $10,000 (tires, wheels, trim, electrical, faux finishes, hand fabrications, glass, etc).

boomchek

And I guess you gotta find somebody who knows what they're doing. I can't see any common body shops taking on a job like this and doing it properly.

boomchek

At 0.50 on the dollar it sounds like a good investment lol :lemon:

Mr_Shiftright

I know a gentleman who restored a '64 Continental, and I believe his bill was about $124,000. Things kinda got out of hand, but it reminds me of that passage from Macbeth, where he says (paraphrase)---"well, I've waded into the middle of the lake of blood---whether I go forward or back I'll get equally drenched".

Another example of having a budget and budget control before you start your restoration.

boomchek

Wow $124k is a lot!

Mr_Shiftright

Prize-winning car, though. Pretty near perfect no matter where you look.

fintail

If you want a perfect showpiece, ante up and restore one yourself. If you want a nice driver, spend 30-40K or so on something someone else sunk 60-70K into.

hpmctorque

Ah come on, for a '64 Conti convertible it would be cheap at twice that price!

boomchek

Yeah I saw one in LA Craiglist for $35k.

64 Conti in LA

Mr_Shiftright

Not a very encouraging car from the photos at least (bad paint, hard leather, irregular door gaps)--might be a tarted up rust bucket.

stickguy

there is a show on one of the cable channels about a dealer down in miami (south beach classics). on one episode, a guy brought in a conti like this to sell, and wanted soemthing like 20K for it. I think the buy offer was 5K, after the dealer (Ted) pointed out how expensive it was going to be to fix the obvious flaws, like a top that did not work by motor.

classic case of no way to restore for what it is worth, unless you can do all the work yourself, and even then maybe not@!

Mr_Shiftright

Well let's figure that top of the mountain for this car is $80,000 for a show winner----so if you buy one needing just about everthing, then there's no pot of gold at the end of THAT rainbow.

It's a little different for this other fellow I know---he paid $75K for a certain vintage Maserati---and it, too, is now completely in pieces down to the last nut and bolt---but on the far end, he has a potential value of $375,000---so he has some breathing room there.

fintail

The baby moons and general detail issues have me skeptical. They want 35K, might need to knock it down to 25K to set it right. I think nice ones can be had in the 30s. Are you really wanting to buy one?

boomchek

I've been looking around to see if I can pick up something old and interesting to fix up and maybe sell. However I know very little about old cars and costs involved into making them presentable.

So far I've just been browsing Craigslist for old Mopars, Camaros, Mustangs, and similiar type of cars. There seem to be plenty non runners for under $5k,
but I just don't want to end up buying one only to bury myself with a $50k restoration and losing money on it.

lemko

The wrong wheels and anachronistic wide whitewalls on this car already make me want to pass on this one. This car appears to be somebody else's idea of what looks "cool." I'd have to spend megabucks just to undo what is wrong on that car.

I saw a really nice light green 1965 Continental in the neighborhood near my workplace about 10 years ago for $4,500. It had a patina, but it wasn't such a wreck I'd be ashamed of it. Trouble is, I don't have the room for such a car and I sure as heck wouldn't want to leave that beauty out on a city street.