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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • dhoffdhoff Posts: 282
    "It will be IMPOSSIBLE to drive down the street in this street legal car without all eyes on you."

     

    Truth in advertising, and maybe just a bit of understatement?

     

    "This head turning special needs to have a home quick..." ... before the buyer has second thoughts??

     

    Dave
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    A Porsche engine may indeed be more expensive to rebuild than a VW engine but you won't be rebuilding it every 60,000 miles (or far fewer if it's a "hotrod" VW aka "hand grenade engine".

     

    So really, for every 4 VW engines you build you get to build one Porsche engine, so it works out close to the same thing.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    I noticed that the Porsche engine is a 4-cyl. Doubtless a 912 engine... which is pretty sweet in a 912, but in that abortion?

     

    No wait! It could be a 914 engine (!) Does the seller ever mention that this thing is s-l-o-w?? With the bed-liner paint job and those oversized tires it must be fairly heavy.

     

    james
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,288
    O-boy, Porsche made nothing but pancake fours until the introduction of the 911 in '66.

     

    The 912 motor was just an adapted 356 motor and this could be a 356 motor as well.

     

    I think the 914 motor was really a souped VW 412 motor (914-6s excepted).

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    that's correct, the 914 engine is just a 412 engine. So if you rebuild it, you get VW performance at Porsche prices. Such a deal!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Now will you look at this...

     

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6409&item=4526127248&rd=1

     

    I am still sweeping my jaw off the floor.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,288
    Geeez, that kinda dough for a CLONE!

     

    What the hell is the reserve. You are correct Shifty, it's really, really nutz.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    ...is what I'd call a "Franken-mobile!"
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYPosts: 2,097
    It looks like there has been some nice work done, but why would he drop it mid-project and how much is a clone worth when it's done?????
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,699
    I am glad he was making a street car rather than a trailer queen, otherwise the price might have been high.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Even WEIRDER than the person nuts enough to buy it for that price, is the person nuts enough to give the guy ANOTHER $75K in advance to finish an unfinished car.

     

    And we wonder why the courts are overflowing.

     

    Back in frontier times, if you were that dumb you just gotten eaten by a bear or scalped. Society couldn't save the clueless.
  • what's the best way to rid myself of an inherited, strong-running, with good tranny 1973 MB 450sl convertible that has a ton of rust issues? The bottom is so rusted, that the brakes are failing and brake fluid is leaking out of the rusted brake lines.

     

    is it worth the money to try and find a engine-less mate and combine the two cars?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Donate it or part it out. Not worth finding another car, these cars have very little value vis a vis the tremendous expense to fix them. Don't go there.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,288
    You could put on eBay with a ridiculously high reserve, there seems to be a sucker born every nano-second.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Posts: 50,753
    I was gonna say that too...part it out. The engine might be worth a little to someone...although not a fortune...and the trim pieces and junk might be worth a little, esp if you have a hardtop for it.

     

    A very pristine early 107 like that can be had for 10-12 grand or so at anytime, so you wouldn't have to do much to get in too deep
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,288
    This car looks like it's had extensive work but might need a little more....

     

    http://hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/classifieds.cardetail/id- - /2177660

     

    S' funny, it's described a dark maroon but photo appears to show a purple car, at least on my monitor. Seems like a semi-reasonable price assuming the body and paint work is good, what say you guys?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 37,547
    Certainly worth saving. Even looks like it has one of them hood tachs (or at least the hole for it). Maybe a little pricey, depends on how nice the work is, and what the "20% left" consists of. Seems like the hard work is done.

     

    Of course, I'm always leery of easy to finish projects that the owner doesn't want to finish. Seems like he would make out better if he just completed it, or had someone do it.

     

    It is Purple by the way. If it was a better color, and done tastefully, and someone offered it to me for 5K, I'd probably buy it.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    but what engine would it have in it? I see where it says "4-speed", but I don't see an engine size listed. Definitely has potential though, even with that Plum Crazy color! I think that color would look better if it had either black or white accent stripes somewhere.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYPosts: 2,097
    That color would be great on a Cuda but if this was mine, it'd be getting repainted again (probably black). It's missing the hood tach and those look like Buick wheels but it looks decent if the owner would pony up more thorough details.

     

    From the way the front is sitting, could it be motorless?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,288
    but what engine would it have in it?

     

    Good question, Andre. I think '67 was the last year for the 326 so I guess the default engine would be the 350. I assume they'd have mentioned it if it had the 400 in it.

     

    Unless it had the SOHC six (?)

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 37,547
    That must be a V8 car. I doubt it has an original, or probably even correct, motor, but that wouldn't bother me on a car like this, assuming it had a good one!

     

    I bet the Sprint motor would cost way more than a good small block though.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Sprint motor parts are very hard to find, and it's not a good motor anyway. I think putting in a V8 would probably increase the car's value.

     

    Looks overpriced for what it is and how far you might still have to go. You can buy nice Firebird coupes all ready to go for not too much more than that.

     

    Firebirds, unless they are big-engined and original, do not bring Camaro money, and one should pay accordingly.

     

    When someone else has started a restoration, the selling price is heavily dependent on the quality of the workmanship. The mention of "new floor pans" is a little scary unless the body was actually removed and chemically treated or bead blasted.

     
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,288
    "New floor pans..." rust and Pony cars go together like a horse and carriage.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    but I've heard that the '67-69 Firebird/Camaro, along with the '68-79 Nova and possibly the '70 1/2-81 Camaro/Firebird have unibodies designed in such a way that when they get rusty enough, the car can actually break in two at the firewall. I think it has something to do with the subframe rails not extending far enough under the passenger cabin, as they would on a Mopar of that vintage.

     

    I think it had something to do with trying to completely isolate the sub-frame and engine/suspension from the passenger compartment? I think it made for a smoother ride, but would cause long-term integrity problems.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 37,547
    Up, you can unbolt the front clip on a Nova and just roll it right away, frame rails and all.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • ghuletghulet Posts: 2,628
    ...the seller didn't mention the engine size on that Firebird, or whether or not it's original. If it has a factory hood tach, it almost certainly was a V8 car. No matter, this car doesn't look to be anything special, and 'matching numbers', etc. don't seem to be so important on Firebirds, unless they're Trans Ams or maybe 400s. I agree with Shiftright, one can probably buy a super nice 60s Firebird coupe (again, not a Trans Am, big block or high option car) for around $10k, so why spend $8k on one needing what looks to be quite a lot of work?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I've seen "plain" coupes go for even less than that in very decent condition. Figure $8.5K-12K is the active range for nice but not show cars. So his $8K is looking pretty bad unless it were a matching numbers big block.

     

    If it's really 80% done, then it's worth about 80% of what he is asking.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    What does he think he has here, a 60s Ferrari? It's a $500 car at best the way it sits. It needs EVERYTHING looks like. At what's the end point? You can buy good runners for $3,500 and pristine cars for $6,500. And to think you're only paint, bodywork, upholstery and mechanicals away from untold riches!

    What a dummy. He should have put it at no reserve and start at $1 and he'd be over his starting bid on the first couple days already.

    Somebody should e-mail him and give him a clue. it would be nice to find a home for the car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    but I like it:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category- =6190&item=4531506162

    I think $1800 is kinda high, though, considering it's just a 4-door and it needs floors, a trunk, windshield, brake work, and interior. And I really can't tell from the pics, but I'm sure it's a cheap paint job. I doubt it was originally red either, considering the interior looks to be a sea green!

    The '57-58 DeSoto is one of my favorite cars, but I always thought the cheap Firesweep series was a bit of a mutt. The DeSoto grille just doesn't work on the Dodge front-end clip!

    So what say ye all? Save it or part it out?
  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    "the seller didn't mention the engine size on that Firebird, or whether or not it's original."

    Actually ghulet, he did- NOM usually means "not original motor" but yes he doesnt indicate size.

    Shifty's right- 1st gen firebird cars dont bring as much as the Camaro unless its a 400 car, and even there a Camaro in like condition may be more pricey(Trans am didnt show up until 69). Also finding a nice 'bird will be tougher than the Camaro as they made many more of the Chevy
    counterpart.

    Now on the other hand-
    early second gen T/A's('70-'72 and to a lesser extent '73)have been spiraling out of control price wise the last few years. A fine example of one of these T/A's will command a lot more money than a like vintage Z-28.

    Keep in mind the Firebirds/TA's didn't start outselling the Camaro/Z-28 until the late 70's when Smokey and the Bandit hit the silver screen.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    You'll have to paste the ENTIRE URL that Andre posted to get it to work. Somehow part of it is "live" and part isn't.

    The '57 Desoto doesn't make sense at this price since it is a "base" car and a sedan to boot, meaning that you should be able to find a clean driver for $5,000 all ready to go.

    But for a hobby, and if the price stays around $1,800, not much harm done. The only problem is that you don't have much when you're done--it's still a bottom of the line 4 door sedan and not too pretty either.

    If it were me and I wanted a Desoto, I'd pick a Fireflite 2 door hardtop or wagon--this helps to justify your investment. I'd use all the 4-doors for parts cars for the higher line cars.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    I tried to go back several times to join that url together in the message, but it just wouldn't work. Just out of curiosity, is there much difference in value these days between a Fireflite and a Firedome 2-door hardtop?

    I don't know if it really makes much difference in the old car market, but for me at least, either the Firedome or Fireflite is much preferable to the Firesweep. Not only better looking, but much better performing. The Firedome/Fireflite had a 341 Hemi with 270 or 295 hp, and most, if not all, had the excellent, fast-shifting Torqueflite tranny. In contrast, the Firesweep just had a Dodge 325 Poly, with 245 hp (2-bbl) or 260 (4-bbl), and every one I've ever seen was mated up to either a 2-speed powerflite, or a 3 on the tree! I've heard the Dodge 325 is also pretty doggy, at least in 2-bbl form with the 2-speed tranny.

    I almost bought a '58 Firesweep back in '95 for $850. It was white with a yellow spear/roof. It was still stuck with the 2-speed tranny, but it had a 2-bbl 350 wedge with 280 hp, and that sucker would really move. Unfortunately, someone else beat me to it, but I still got a chance to drive it!

    For some reason, I always thought it would be cool to get one of these cheaper, less-desireable DeSotos to drive around on a regular basis. That way, if something happened to it, I wouldn't be crying over it as much as I would if something happened to my '57 Firedome!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Well true. The 4-door version of just about ANY car is usually the most plentiful and therefore the most expendable and therefore the least collectible.

    There are only a handful of 4-door cars that have become, or will ever become, what we call "collectible".

    (It helps if it has a huge engine).
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    this is a sad looking beast!

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?G6181279A

    A guy in my Mopar club mentioned that the current bid of $1525 is about what he paid for one back in 1972!

    Looks like this thing might be good for a few parts here and there, but otherwise I'd say junk it!
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    ...and not many at that. All the body panels are either badly dented or rusted. Maybe you could salvage a few minor bits here and there. Sad.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 37,547
    I suppose you could take the chassis for the VIN and build a new car on it. Might even be fun. Nothing to save on this beast, though I would pay $20 for the r/t grill piece.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    That's exactly why the price is what it is...for the VIN and papers...this car's papers will show up on some other chassis soon enough, or it will be made into a fake. A "real" '69 Charger 440 six pack is worth an easy $50K right now, so there's wiggle room in here.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYPosts: 2,097
    That pile is up to $1,600. Besdies the glass and the papers, what is worth saving? Maybe if you won the auction, the seller would send you the glass, grills and papers and leave the rest on the curb for garbage pickup.

    If you leave two pieces a week on the curb, the whole thing would be gone in about two months.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    the driver's side fender and door aren't too bad either, and the decklid and bumper. I have no idea how much that kind of stuff would sell for nowadays. The last time I bought a door from a junkyard, it was off of a '79 Pontiac LeMans. A buddy of mine with a '78 Malibu snagged his rear door on a guardrail pulling out from work one night, and tore it up real good. I got him this door for about 50 bucks. That was a good 12-13 years ago though, and I'm sure that '69 Charger parts are a bit more desireable than late 70's GM 4-doors!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I think it's all about the vin plates and papers...I think that's what's for sale here but of course you can't say that. I agree, the rest is just scrap metal.

    I wish I knew the VIN--I'd put it in my database, and I'm sure I'll see it again somewhere, someday.

    Counterfeiting in muscle cars has gotten so bad I refuse to authenticate a car when appraising it anymore. People have gotten way too clever. Without a factory build sheet I'm not signing anything....and now I hear the broadcast sheets are being counterfeited.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    fair enough...
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYPosts: 2,097
    I don't get what he's saying about the price guide but it looks like a decent enough driver. Lord knows we've seen worse here for more money.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    is that the car's not quite a 3 on the condition scale, and not quite a 4, but still closer to the 4 end of the spectrum.

    I forget how that scale runs, but I think it's something like this...

    #1 Absolutely perfect, trailer queen. A lot of people might think they have a #1 car, but in reality this is a mythical beast, almost never seen in the real world.

    #2 What most people really have when they think they have a #1 car. Car looks great and needs absolutely nothing, but still might have a very slight cosmetic blemish here and there.

    #3 and #4 Decent running cars that might need some body work, interior work, or mechanical work to be really nice, but are mostly useable as is. A typical used car.

    #5 Needs a total restoration. May or may not be running, but cannot be used as-is.

    #6 parts car.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 50,753
    That sounds right to me. I think my old car is a 3...it needs a bit, but nothing serious.

    Some of those value guides can also be way out there. They put nice prices on fintails too.

    That Olds could be a good driver and not too much of a gamble at 3000-3500.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    In fact, most cars you see at local shows in parking lots are #3s. A #2 car is actually a very very sharp car with no apparent defects--it's more like a #2 car is just not fanatically restored enough to be a #1. Or a former #1 with a little scratch and tarnish and faded spots here and there. So a #2 might get a lower echelon trophy but a #3 never would, in a serious car show.

    If a car doesn't run and hasn't run for some time and nobody can remember when it last ran, I automatically put it in #4 in most cases, since there are so many question marks. Also, any car with dents or broken glass, etc., goes into #4.

    #5 I reserve for rough but still complete and non-rusted cars.

    If they are stripped, weathered, or badly rusted, they are #6, which is essentially to be regarded as a parts car.

    The reason I might seem harsher than most guides is that an appraiser is obligated to appraise the car in front of him, as it sits. He can't presume that it will start or that the dent will be pulled out tomorrow, etc. or even that someone will wash it!
  • I created a name to ask a question, this seemed to be the best place if its not then direct to somewhere that is. I'm looking for a 1965 Chevy Malibu Station Wagon figured that someone here might have better resources than I do, can anyone offer any sites that I can look through? I'm not looking for a mint condition vehicle, more like a project car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I'd say try Hemmings Motor News (www.hemmings.com) and the Autotrader's collector car classifieds, which is www.traderonline.com. I think those are best for project-type vehicles, because the ads are cheap.

    You can also just "google" for a '65 Wagon, and add "for sale" to the car's year and make and you might pick something up.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,873
    when you use Google, you might have better luck doing "1965 Chevelle Wagon". I'm not sure about 1965 specifically, but back then Chevrolet had the habit of calling their station wagon variants somthing different from their sedans and coupes. And back then the Malibu was but one trim level of the whole Chevelle line. I think it went something like Chevelle 300, Chevelle 500, and Chevelle Malibu?

    Chevy used to name their wagons things like "Nomad" (even in the 60's) "Brookwood", "Kingswood", etc. At least with the full-sized ones they did. I'm sure they did something similar with the Chevelle.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    ...was called Concours. The plain-jane was called Nomad. Brookwood was the plain-jane full-size wagon, equivalent to a Biscayne or Bel Air sedan. The Kingswood was the wagon equivalent of the Impala, and the Kingswood Estate was the wood-appliqued Caprice equivalent.
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