Yeah, I didn't see his post until after I posted mine. The SOHC engine doesn't need as much room to clear the cam gears. One would think given the simplicity of the 8v motor it would be easier to change the timing belt, but, eh, its not. Didn't the Gen 1 Neons have a bump to designate 1 cam vs 2? It was ~130 hp vs ~150 hp if i recall correctly.
Oh I was thinking that the 735 had a good long run, had that great 3.0 liter engine, and boasted good longevity records. Maybe I should say "best BMW large sedan" for overall sturdiness. Just my opinion on that one, no real data to back it up.
It's unfortunate really, that some of the most awful cars are the most seductive and some of the best ones are kind of dull.
yeah, I do get worked up don't I about the XJ6. After seeing the endless streams of money put into these crates, I feel like I'm witnessing a crime and need to cry out for justice --LOL!
I had a '99 Neon Sport with the 150 HP engine and 5-spd, and yes it had a power bulge that "lesser" Neons didn't have. It was cheap, noisy, and poorly built. It was also a blast to drive, and would embarrass a lot of expensive machinery.
I am almost afraid to make the joke that a small-block Chevy will fix it all.
I'll take some of what this old 911 owner is smoking.
"Words cannot describe how flawless the exterior of this fine auto is."
I assume he means if you look past the rusted out body, faded paint, collision damage, etc. Almost better yet, it may run, but nobody knows as they haven't tried to start it because they don't have a key.
"All electrical and optional equipment on this vehicle have been checked and are in perfect working condition."
How the heck do they know? They don't have a key to it.
"We are aware of a defect in this vehicle, please click ask seller a question for more information."
So if I wasn't scared off by the need for a new engine, transmission, interior and body, there is another defect so large that they won't even mention it in the ad. Are there dead people in it or something?
Shifty-I respect yur POV on JAG XJ6's ..but every once in a while, you see a well-maintained one..and they are nice looking. WRT the old Borg-Warner ATs, were they really that bad? But you are absolutely right-the design of these cars makes basic maitainence a nightmare-those rear brakes for instance! Was labor so cheap in England that they could get away with this? And how much better was the car with inboard brakes? supose Jaguar had mounted the discs at the wheel 9like everybody else)-would the handling have been all that different?
Hmmm. The SE-R needs a new exhaust (I have the rejection sticker to prove it). Replacing the stock system in kind would run maybe $500 while a Stromung would be $638, an OEM cat would be around $1000 while a Random cat is $210, the OEM header maybe $500 shipped from Japan versus $425 for a Hotshot, and say $200 for the cruddy plastic intake versus $229 for a CAI. I'm ahead about $700. I like this system.
You stick with me bumpy and I can help you rationalize ANYTHING to do with cars.
XJ6 -- Nah, A chevy V8 doesn't fix anything, because the Jaguar engine is the best part of the car---what people THINK they are doing is not what they are actually doing, which is throwing out the electrical system attached to the engine rather than merely disconnecting it from the engine. ("baby with the bathwater, etc. etc")
I think the reason the XJ6 is so unreliable and difficult to deal with is that jaguar was an undercapitalized company. So the rear suspension, for instance, comes pretty much out of an E-Type, as does the engine, etc. But that beautiful body is wrapped around some real cockamammie engineering, let me tell you. How many people use the AC to cool the gasoline? Or use dual fuel tanks in a luxury sedan? Or run rubber injection lines UNDER the intake manifold, next to the block? aye, aye, aye.....
Yes, that particular early Borg Warner transmission, which was I think maybe a BW66 (???) is really a bad piece of work. You can count on early failure. Later transmissions were better, and later XJ6s were better, but of course "better" is a relative term, as in "better kind of root canal".
The best you can do with these cars is buy the best one, a mint one, and try to blunt its inevitable mechanical disintegration. Sometimes with luck, money, and a good mechanic, you can decelerate the tragedy to the point where the car is only marginally painful and on some days actual quite pleasant to own.
As one Jaguar mechanic said to my friend on his first visit: "You will have some nice days with this car, and you will have some very bad days with this car".
just curious, but were a lot of the frightenling expensive repairs lagely labor cost instead of parts cost? Say, something like the caliper could be a $2 seal that takes 5 hours to get to.
If so, it could make a decent project car if you have the time, skill and tools to do the work yourself.
Of course, a new tranny is going to cost no matter who puts it in..
I was thinking about Peter Egan and his stories about rebuilding his E-type coupe. I imagine that if he spent say $20K on parts and farming out work while making it a DIY, it could run an easy $60K if you paid a shop to do the whole thing?
That's another problem with something like the XJ6. It isn't something likely to be owned by a real hands-on person, and as they age, they get ignored until they break.
I wonder how many they made like that one in the ad
Re: the Jags - just get an old Mercedes if you want an old luxobarge. A well cared for one will be much less painful. It might be a little less elegant...but it still has class by the boatload.
Actually all old foreign luxury cars are kind of scary. It's so easy to get completely buried. Is there anything worse than "old high tech"?
On the XJ6, both parts and labor are punishing. Some of those little black boxes for ignition, etc are $600 and up and there's no shopping around. Dealer or die.
We are still looking. We are going to go see the local MGB tommorrow (the one you beat up on a little). Maybe the guy will be a little more reasonable with his pricing now, as he couldn't even get a single bid starting at $5,000.
On the MGB, if I didn't mention this, look for two vertical grooves in the rear cowl below the trunk, one on either side of the backup lights. If they are missing, you have a bondo-sled.
Also keep in mind that the car is a unibody, so any floor pan rust is critical.
good thing the red BMW isn't closer. I might buy it. Probably would soon regret it, not that it ever stopped me before. How much lower cna you really go for a car that isn't a basket case? The most you can overpay by is 3.3K!
Now, that MGB is very intriquing, and that one is only about 20 minutes from me. If I had seen it earlier, I might have run up at lunch! The fever would probably only last until I drove it though. I seem to recall being very disappointed last time I drove one. I think I like the way they look more than the way they drive, but still a fun toy. If it runs well and isn't a rust bucket, hard to go wrong for the money.
635 is a pretty nice car, but it drives like a big heavy vehicle and so a stickshift gets very old very fast unless you are in a rural area most of the time. Think of an ElDorado with a floor shift---not good.
If there is such a thing as a rare Lexus, this is it - an SC300 with a manual transmission. This one has been turbocharged. I think this is the same car as was for sale a year or so ago sans turbo for around $13,000.
I checked on the modifications he made and there's nothing about brakes or suspension, so no thanks. Interesting car but it needs another $5,000 to stay planted on the road with all that power. One would not call stock Lexus chassis "sports cars".
1980 MGB---somewhat improved over earlier rubber-bumper Bs but nonetheless--it isn't pretty....might have some value because it is the last year of the true MGs.
And to think they killed the MG for the TR7. yeah, brilliant.
On a vehicle like this, the body is not important - it is the mechanicals that propel it that matter. Why spend a bunch of time, effort, and possibly money on the body when it will just get beat to heck if you use the vehicle for the reason you built it?
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
All this talk of Jaguar and it being an undercapitalized manufacturer reminds me of another company that made cars quite similar to theirs- Saab.
I recall you regaling us with stories about the older 99s and 900s with their myriad of engineering defects, such as bad transmissions, head gaskets and biodegradable interiors. Do you still think Saab is, or was, similar to Jag in their manufacturing quality?
that '70 Galaxie really caught my eye. Normally these cars are just about invisible to me; I think it's because, as cars from that era go, they just seem kinda bland to me. In contrast, I think a the typical 1970 GM big car is much more stylish. And while the big Mopars from that era weren't exactly beauty queens, they still had clean, sleek lines, and kind of an aggressive look.
Still, that '70 looks to be in nice shape, and literally a lot of car for the money. I guess with a 390-2bbl, even though that's not a high-output engine, it should be plenty to move something like that.
for some reason, in this crop of pictures, the interior seems to match a bit better with that pinkish/peach-ish exterior color. That one shot with the back door is interesting, too. It shows just how much bulk they added to the 1957 body shell.
My 66 Galaxie had a 390 with a 4bbl...it was reasonably quick, I don't know what kind of performance gain that would have over the 2bbl. Judging by the huge looks of that 70, I bet the 66 was actually lighter, too.
I agree about that styling, that Ford is dullsville. But, a good survivor for a grand, I think. And I am sure it is negotiable.
My Dad had a '64 Galaxie 500 hardtop with a 390-4bbl, and while he hated it at the time, in retrospect he's said it was one of the best cars he ever had. The main reason he hated it, I think, is because his parents always bought Fords, so he probably rebelled!
Another reason he hated this car most likely is because it was an automatic, and back then he really preferred a stick shift. Back around that time, he also had a '63 Impala SS409, the 425 (IIRC) hp version. So compared to that, I'm sure he really hated the Ford!
We saw it; we drove it. I almost rear-ended an Infiniti as I couldn't get it slowed down from 20 mph, even pumping the brakes. I don't know if it was just the master cylinder, but the brakes reminded me of trying to stop a car without the ignition on - huge effort and kind of a hard pedal.
1. One rear tailight replaced, the other good but faded. 2. Paint looks to be good quality over subpar prep work - no rust found except a tiny bit of surface rust in the trunk. 3. Doors slightly sagging - metal close to touching at the top, protruding slightly outward at the bottom. 4. New replacement hood, not great fit. 5. Used replacement fender, looks like it has some bondo. 6. Undercarriage covered with oil almost all the way to the rear muffler, but it didn't seem to drip any while we were there. 7. three underinflated bald tires of three different makes. 8. steering was extremely high in effort, even compared to my '77 MGB - maybe related to the tire pressure. 9. engine and transmission were smooth, but maybe a little feeling of a hitch when letting the clutch out. 10. Several little things were wrong, like missing half of the rubber on the front bumper quard, cracked seals around the windshield, etc.
He now only needs to get $7,500 instead of $10,000. It probably isn't as bad as you might think from my above description, but I don't think it is worth $7,500.
I could burn rubber in the Galaxie, that was cool enough for me when I was 16. That car also got horrible mileage (even when I took it easy) and was very cold blooded. It loved to stall all the time in the first 10 minutes or so of driving. It was a very love/hate relationship. But, it was a really clean original car I bought for $1000, so it could have been worse. Although, I will admit I wasn't sad for long after it got hit.
CERTAINLY NOT! Sounds like $4,500 all day long actually, if you even wanted it.
It's the power brake booster that's bad on the car. Also probably a bad (dry) steering rack. I've already added up $2,000 in my head just from a brief reading of your list. And god knows what we don't know.
My old MGB sounds like a Pebble Beach Concours car comapared to this thing. Mine had none of those issues whatsoever.
I forgot about the dog food. The car had dog food in the engine compartment, at least two kinds (perhaps kibble and bits). Not a ton, but if you collected it from all of the various places it was found, it wasmaybe enough to feed a very small dog one meal.
That is odd to me.
There was poo in the trunk. It would make sense if it was poo from a small dog, but it seemed like it was from a rat.
The car apparently didn't get out much. It had cobwebs all over the undercarriage.
stashed in the engine compartment, that thing is definitely infested with some kind of rodents. Years ago, my Grandma had a mouse problem in her house. I had lived with her for awhile, but in 1999, after getting my finances back in order after a bad divorce, I was able to move back into my condo. However, I left a bedroom set at her place, in one of the upstairs bedrooms, and never got around to pickup up alot of my stuff. Well, the bottom dresser drawer suddenly started filling up with dogfood! And I'd find some stashed in some of my old shoes and boots that I left over there.
In addition to the bedroom set and other stuff, I also left my two dogs with Grandma, because she got too attached to them. We kept their dogfood in a big bin in her back room. So evidently the mice were raiding it and stashing it in various places around the house. They also had a habit of stashing it in the shower stall in the basement.
As for the poo, thankfully they didn't do that in my dresser drawer or shoes! But they sure dumped alot down in that shower! Thankfully, in a place where it was easy to just wash it away. At least they were thoughtful little critters in that respect. :confuse:
jrosasmc wrote: "recall you regaling us with stories about the older 99s and 900s with their myriad of engineering defects, such as bad transmissions, head gaskets and biodegradable interiors. Do you still think Saab is, or was, similar to Jag in their manufacturing quality?"
In many respects, your implication is correct, as SAABs - like most Volvos - are not maintained properly. It's always how the car was taken care of that's important. I have two mid-80's Classic SAAB 900's, one an 8-valve 5-speed sedan, and the other a 16-valve 3-speed B-W automatic hatch. Both are still daily drivers and each has over 175K. Neither has suffered a transmission failure, nor head gasket woes. Except for headliner replacements and the very common dash cover vinyl cracking problem, the cloth seats, and the remainder of the interior, are in excellent condition. Also, neither engine uses any oil between the 3K or 3 month oil changes.
Regular drain and refills will provide long service on the 5-speed, and the same with the old B-W 3-speed automatic - along with not abusing the transmission! Most important on the head gasket is to use only the phosphate-free and pH buffered Mercedes-Benz coolant with distilled water, drain and refill every 24K, and change out the stock radiator thermo-switch to one from a VW to switch on the fan at a lower coolant temp. If you know the tricks, you can eliminate most of the bugaboos of owning a Classic SAAB. Yes, they can somtimes be finicky, but I've had fewer major problems with either of the two SAABs that I've had with the other cars in our family "stable," and these include some newer highly regarded Asian and domestic marques.
Well I think the point is that giving a car to Americans which requires special coolants and very meticulous maitenance is giving the car a death sentence. Ferrari owners know how to take care of a car with 'special requirements', but your average American driver doesn't.
Saabnet puts head gasket failure on the 4 cylinder turbo at 8%, which is abnormally high for any factory defect.
I don't mean to beat on Saab particularly, as I always liked mine (I had 3). But they were all real pains in the butt.
Volvos seem more amenable to abuse for some reason.
Naturally, since old Volvos and Saabs are worth very little, as they age they get even worse maintenance from their 2nd and 3rd owners. MGBs suffered a similar fate, as did Alfas.
At least with a Ferrari, BMW or BEnz, you tend to find them in better shape as they age, since they have better resale. This is my theory anyway, that there is a direct correlation between the blue book price and the condition you're likely to find a car in when it's old.
Comments
Didn't the Gen 1 Neons have a bump to designate 1 cam vs 2? It was ~130 hp vs ~150 hp if i recall correctly.
When you say the 735 is probably the best BMW ever made, what years do you mean? What other BMWs are in competition for that title?
It's unfortunate really, that some of the most awful cars are the most seductive and some of the best ones are kind of dull.
yeah, I do get worked up don't I about the XJ6. After seeing the endless streams of money put into these crates, I feel like I'm witnessing a crime and need to cry out for justice --LOL!
-Jason
I'll take some of what this old 911 owner is smoking.
"Words cannot describe how flawless the exterior of this fine auto is."
I assume he means if you look past the rusted out body, faded paint, collision damage, etc. Almost better yet, it may run, but nobody knows as they haven't tried to start it because they don't have a key.
"All electrical and optional equipment on this vehicle have been checked and are in perfect working condition."
How the heck do they know? They don't have a key to it.
"We are aware of a defect in this vehicle, please click ask seller a question for more information."
So if I wasn't scared off by the need for a new engine, transmission, interior and body, there is another defect so large that they won't even mention it in the ad. Are there dead people in it or something?
Hmmm I might make a little trip...I see at least one fintail
will be a nightmare.
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofjet.htm
XJ6 -- Nah, A chevy V8 doesn't fix anything, because the Jaguar engine is the best part of the car---what people THINK they are doing is not what they are actually doing, which is throwing out the electrical system attached to the engine rather than merely disconnecting it from the engine. ("baby with the bathwater, etc. etc")
I think the reason the XJ6 is so unreliable and difficult to deal with is that jaguar was an undercapitalized company. So the rear suspension, for instance, comes pretty much out of an E-Type, as does the engine, etc. But that beautiful body is wrapped around some real cockamammie engineering, let me tell you. How many people use the AC to cool the gasoline? Or use dual fuel tanks in a luxury sedan? Or run rubber injection lines UNDER the intake manifold, next to the block? aye, aye, aye.....
Yes, that particular early Borg Warner transmission, which was I think maybe a BW66 (???) is really a bad piece of work. You can count on early failure. Later transmissions were better, and later XJ6s were better, but of course "better" is a relative term, as in "better kind of root canal".
The best you can do with these cars is buy the best one, a mint one, and try to blunt its inevitable mechanical disintegration. Sometimes with luck, money, and a good mechanic, you can decelerate the tragedy to the point where the car is only marginally painful and on some days actual quite pleasant to own.
As one Jaguar mechanic said to my friend on his first visit: "You will have some nice days with this car, and you will have some very bad days with this car".
If so, it could make a decent project car if you have the time, skill and tools to do the work yourself.
Of course, a new tranny is going to cost no matter who puts it in..
I was thinking about Peter Egan and his stories about rebuilding his E-type coupe. I imagine that if he spent say $20K on parts and farming out work while making it a DIY, it could run an easy $60K if you paid a shop to do the whole thing?
That's another problem with something like the XJ6. It isn't something likely to be owned by a real hands-on person, and as they age, they get ignored until they break.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Re: the Jags - just get an old Mercedes if you want an old luxobarge. A well cared for one will be much less painful. It might be a little less elegant...but it still has class by the boatload.
On the XJ6, both parts and labor are punishing. Some of those little black boxes for ignition, etc are $600 and up and there's no shopping around. Dealer or die.
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/177083648.html
Now THAT is an optimistic selling price
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/177082222.html
A few years younger than the 635, but its an automatic and the miles are not listed.
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/177040406.html
Here's one way to generate interest. Just hide the damage with bushes.
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/176988537.html
Ah, yes, the elusive "engine noise." Oddly enough, all of my cars' engines make noise.
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/176986465.html
hey, lemmer, is your buddy still in the market?
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/176979256.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/176873332.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/176873058.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
We are still looking. We are going to go see the local MGB tommorrow (the one you beat up on a little). Maybe the guy will be a little more reasonable with his pricing now, as he couldn't even get a single bid starting at $5,000.
Also keep in mind that the car is a unibody, so any floor pan rust is critical.
Now, that MGB is very intriquing, and that one is only about 20 minutes from me. If I had seen it earlier, I might have run up at lunch! The fever would probably only last until I drove it though. I seem to recall being very disappointed last time I drove one. I think I like the way they look more than the way they drive, but still a fun toy. If it runs well and isn't a rust bucket, hard to go wrong for the money.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Basicly a Supraized SC300 that was wicked fast and had 400 hp and change or something.
I think they acutaly put a 6 speed from a supra and a turbo supra motor into it though just converted the 6 cylinder from twin turbo to single.
Have no idea what these are worth - I imagine less in CO than, say, CA or FL
Probably not the best years for a Corvette
Can you say money pit?
For someone with the right skills and/or contacts, this might be a good project
Odometer says 79K - do you really believe it?
Only 10% of the one lemmer is going to look at!
Dwarfs even an H1!
1980 MGB---somewhat improved over earlier rubber-bumper Bs but nonetheless--it isn't pretty....might have some value because it is the last year of the true MGs.
And to think they killed the MG for the TR7. yeah, brilliant.
I recall you regaling us with stories about the older 99s and 900s with their myriad of engineering defects, such as bad transmissions, head gaskets and biodegradable interiors. Do you still think Saab is, or was, similar to Jag in their manufacturing quality?
Lowline survivor
Odd colored 59 Ford is back
Looks fun
Loaded 56 with a high price...needs correct tires
Poor old thing
Still, that '70 looks to be in nice shape, and literally a lot of car for the money. I guess with a 390-2bbl, even though that's not a high-output engine, it should be plenty to move something like that.
I agree about that styling, that Ford is dullsville. But, a good survivor for a grand, I think. And I am sure it is negotiable.
Another reason he hated this car most likely is because it was an automatic, and back then he really preferred a stick shift. Back around that time, he also had a '63 Impala SS409, the 425 (IIRC) hp version. So compared to that, I'm sure he really hated the Ford!
1. One rear tailight replaced, the other good but faded.
2. Paint looks to be good quality over subpar prep work - no rust found except a tiny bit of surface rust in the trunk.
3. Doors slightly sagging - metal close to touching at the top, protruding slightly outward at the bottom.
4. New replacement hood, not great fit.
5. Used replacement fender, looks like it has some bondo.
6. Undercarriage covered with oil almost all the way to the rear muffler, but it didn't seem to drip any while we were there.
7. three underinflated bald tires of three different makes.
8. steering was extremely high in effort, even compared to my '77 MGB - maybe related to the tire pressure.
9. engine and transmission were smooth, but maybe a little feeling of a hitch when letting the clutch out.
10. Several little things were wrong, like missing half of the rubber on the front bumper quard, cracked seals around the windshield, etc.
He now only needs to get $7,500 instead of $10,000. It probably isn't as bad as you might think from my above description, but I don't think it is worth $7,500.
Pseudo-muscle
It's the power brake booster that's bad on the car. Also probably a bad (dry) steering rack. I've already added up $2,000 in my head just from a brief reading of your list. And god knows what we don't know.
My old MGB sounds like a Pebble Beach Concours car comapared to this thing. Mine had none of those issues whatsoever.
Big Poncho
Diesel greed strikes again...look at this thing. It's filthy, it's been hit on the drivers side, and that hose on top of the engine is amusing. It never ceases to amaze me how people around here think diesel = gold mine
That is odd to me.
There was poo in the trunk. It would make sense if it was poo from a small dog, but it seemed like it was from a rat.
The car apparently didn't get out much. It had cobwebs all over the undercarriage.
In addition to the bedroom set and other stuff, I also left my two dogs with Grandma, because she got too attached to them. We kept their dogfood in a big bin in her back room. So evidently the mice were raiding it and stashing it in various places around the house. They also had a habit of stashing it in the shower stall in the basement.
As for the poo, thankfully they didn't do that in my dresser drawer or shoes! But they sure dumped alot down in that shower! Thankfully, in a place where it was easy to just wash it away. At least they were thoughtful little critters in that respect. :confuse:
In many respects, your implication is correct, as SAABs - like most Volvos - are not maintained properly. It's always how the car was taken care of that's important. I have two mid-80's Classic SAAB 900's, one an 8-valve 5-speed sedan, and the other a 16-valve 3-speed B-W automatic hatch. Both are still daily drivers and each has over 175K. Neither has suffered a transmission failure, nor head gasket woes. Except for headliner replacements and the very common dash cover vinyl cracking problem, the cloth seats, and the remainder of the interior, are in excellent condition. Also, neither engine uses any oil between the 3K or 3 month oil changes.
Regular drain and refills will provide long service on the 5-speed, and the same with the old B-W 3-speed automatic - along with not abusing the transmission! Most important on the head gasket is to use only the phosphate-free and pH buffered Mercedes-Benz coolant with distilled water, drain and refill every 24K, and change out the stock radiator thermo-switch to one from a VW to switch on the fan at a lower coolant temp. If you know the tricks, you can eliminate most of the bugaboos of owning a Classic SAAB. Yes, they can somtimes be finicky, but I've had fewer major problems with either of the two SAABs that I've had with the other cars in our family "stable," and these include some newer highly regarded Asian and domestic marques.
Saabnet puts head gasket failure on the 4 cylinder turbo at 8%, which is abnormally high for any factory defect.
I don't mean to beat on Saab particularly, as I always liked mine (I had 3). But they were all real pains in the butt.
Volvos seem more amenable to abuse for some reason.
Naturally, since old Volvos and Saabs are worth very little, as they age they get even worse maintenance from their 2nd and 3rd owners. MGBs suffered a similar fate, as did Alfas.
At least with a Ferrari, BMW or BEnz, you tend to find them in better shape as they age, since they have better resale. This is my theory anyway, that there is a direct correlation between the blue book price and the condition you're likely to find a car in when it's old.
Funny ad for this sad old thing