Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

gossiptracker

You may be right. They also did not mention anything about the self-park system which they hinted at in Detroit, so they could be waiting for NY.

manegi

10.8L/100KM = 21.8 MPG

cyclone4

I thought it was suppose to average in the mid 20s mpg? So what gives here?

jl618

Does anyone know the size of the LS 460 nav screen and whether or not it is a touch screen?

BTW, at the Portland Auto Show in January (no LS 460 shown there), Lexus had a nav display at their desk. I was quite disappointed at the clarity of the screen, as well as that in the LS & GS on display as compared to that in my '05 Avalon. Could be they were both anomlies, and will not be representative of the LS 460's nav.

The LS 460 looks to be a wonderful upgrade from the Avalon, which in itself is terrific at the price point.">

landi

I did not think 2 MPH would make over .2 seconds difference but who is counting. It is still fast. NO BMW should not and did not win awards for their interior design. :lemon: But I was still expecting something more revolutionary from Lexus on their interior. But again their interior did not need a lot of fixing. I hope they have fixed three major short comings of the LS430 which are IMO looks, unpleasant body lean, and uncomfortable seats. From the pictures and seeing the GS and IS, it seems that the looks have definetly improved. Unpleasant body lean is hopefully fixed with AVS (Adaptive Variable Suspension) while keeping the smooth ride. The Journalists have all praised the front seats for their comfort but after many thousand miles of use, I do not even consider them average. I guess I should not make purchase decisions based on what the "experts" say :mad: After all they make their decisions on a few hours/days with the cars they test but they do not have to live with the various headaches of owning these cars and all cars have these headaches whether we like it or not.

mikegiller

Probably converted in Canadian MPGs.

feverhart

To average in the mid-twenties the fuel consumption would have to be less than 10 and not the "Fuel consumption 10.8 liters/100km" as posted. That posting puts the fuel consumption at a little less than 22 mpg (US).

mdchachi

All current Lexus' are touch screen. Pretty sure LS 460 will be too. Not sure about size. 8 or 9 inches from the looks of it. I think you can expect this nav to be much improved from current LS. It's hard-drive based with traffic functionality. Definitely a new generation. I saw it at the Detroit auto show but it was behind ropes so I couldn't get right up to it.

nvbanker

Have to agree with ya, the interior on my LS430 is merely adequate, IMO. Not great, by any means, although the quality of the materials is excellent. The design is pretty Ho-Hum Toyota, and the seats are flat as my living room couch. I was hoping they would go over to Sweden, and buy a Volvo S-80, copy the interior design, and especially the seats for the cabin. But, apparently, since we buy all the Lexi they can produce, why bother? Be assured though, I didn't buy my Lexus for its looks, inside or out.

drfill

1. I thought you were a Lincoln guy?

2. Do you want an LS with Viper seats? Sounds like you are barking up a strange tree for bolstered seats?

DrFill

nvbanker

I am, and have been a Lincoln guy, Dr. And if they ever make a decent large Sedan again, I'll look at it. But right now, they just don't. The LS430 is the best large sedan out there, IMO right now. BUT, frankly, it has Town Car seats, IMO. That's not a great thing, although, the leather is much nicer.

I bought the LS because of how good it is, not how pretty it is.

drfill

Is the LS460 purdy enough for ya?

I guess you can't tear those seats out and put some Recaros in thur? Might void sumpin'.

DrFill

nvbanker

Yes, the LS460 is a knockout (or knockoff) outside. The inside seems to be very reminiscent of mine though...just boosted a tad in excitement factor. A knockout interior would be been too much risk, I guess....

nvbanker

Ya know, Doc; Bill Ford has pretty much condemned the Lincoln brand to death anyway. It's not being invested in anymore, not marketed well, and is positioned now to compete against Buick. (Oh, the humanity!!) It's unlikely, they'll ever produce anything in a Sedan to woo me back. More than likely, I'm now a Lexus guy.

drfill

Along with wealthy Toyota owners, defecting German-intenders who want better quality, and people who've outgrown the Buick-class.

Lincoln is dead, as far as I know. The Navigator was it's last saving throw.

DrFill

bigfellow

I have owned an S430 and sat in a 745L and both seem to have more legroom than the LS430 despite the fact that the specs indicate the opposite. Does anyone know whether the 460 will have more or less: head room front leg room and rear leg room? 6'8" and hoping

drfill

Get a LWB, have them move the seat tracks back 4"?

Now that's good customer service!

"We'll do it, if you refer all your big friends!

DrFill

drfill

That's messed up!

Stick with it, man.

I've gotten thrown out of much nicer forums than this one! :P

DrFill

chinese_kensei

Hi Everyone
As a happy owner of two pervious LS models, I am on a stage to pre-order a LWB version of LS460 with all the options I saw from the images installed on the sedan. However there are a couple of important questions that I wish to ask you people before I would make the call:
1. My dealer at Taipei informed me that they would expect the first delivery to be arrive at the dealership somewhere during mid-summer (possibly at June, but for sure at July) while most of u guys in NA were expecting the LS to be arrive at Fall. Therefore I am kindda confused as to whether there’s a different launch date between NA and Asia??? Or the dealer simply just messes up with the launch date??
2. Since I don’t have a chance to ride on one of the LS models in the autoshow (except I saw the concept in Tokyo). Can anyone tell me what I would be expecting, in terms of the interior size and appointments inside the car (i.e. would it comparable or better than the German luxury panzers such as Audi or Mercedes)
3. Lastly, a number of owners back in my country have constantly complaining about the transaxle shift delay and transmission hesitations on their Crown, the ES and even the newer GS models and have a lot of frustrating experiences with the dealer to honor the warranty work. I even heard there were even more severe cases in Japan where owners went to the courts and demanded Toyota to provide large financial compensations (don’t exactly know the amount) for a number of mechanical/electrical issues reported from their cars. Therefore I wasn’t sure about the likelihood that I would be facing against one of those mechanical/electrical problems should I purchase the new LS??? Would it be safe bet to wait a year or two until all the major issues on the new model to be resolved??

A sidenote: There have being some reports I saw from a couple of Chinese and Japanese auto mag about the alleged leaks/info on the LS reported on some American auto forums during the Tokyo auto show. I think this issue have become quite severe that Toyota have quietly request that particular high profile individual (the mag reported the person’s last name starts with a “K”) to stop posting in the forum since he/she has some very well connections with the Toyota management and feared that he/she might leaked too many sensitive information out on the web and so forth. Anyways since this was prob my first time I ever post something on an American auto site and u guys were the NA hardcore experts on the LS. Therefore I am asking (just out of curiously) whether u guys ever come across this particular individual in the forum??? If so, what kind a websites I can refer to so I can share the info with my webmates at Taiwan??
Thanks a Bunch

ljflx

How it is off topic to talk about the parent company of the LS460 is beyond me. Kirstie - we need some bandwidth here. Discussions on mfrs of cars can have a lot to do with what happens on any car they make. Likewise competitive car movements by their parent manufacturers are also key at times. IMO - that can include manufacturers financial abilities, changing strategic styling directions on other cars the parent makes, rebates/special deals on other cars in a segment, raection to features on competitive cars/mfrs etc etc etc. What is happening in the parent company and in the competition is definitely part of the 07 LS460 discussions particularly because we have yet to hear all the features of this car officially from Lexus yet.

syswei

Imho, "K" was a fake.

chinese_kensei

Oh I see lol :shades: ...well then is there anyone in this forum whom can address my concerns for the LS??? Cuz I need to inform my dealer ASAP whether I would place my order or not since there's already a long line-up of customers who want to get the LS on firsthand...
Thanks

ljflx

Shouldn't your dealer know a lot more about the car than any of us? As for September/October - that is the date we've been told that American delivery of the cars will take place. Perhaps other countries are different. I'm sure many of us will wish it was June or July if that is when it becomes available elsewhere. Lastly I would say that we will all be told full details about the various LS models and packages regarding US model availability, possibly including US prices, at the NY auto show. Clearly Lexus is using the NY show for their bigger press releases and news including displaying the production model of the LS600H.

garyh1

I can't address your first 2 questions, but with regard to this point:

Lastly, a number of owners back in my country have constantly complaining about the transaxle shift delay and transmission hesitations on their Crown, the ES and even the newer GS models and have a lot of frustrating experiences with the dealer to honor the warranty work.

I have a 2005 LS430 (Crown in Japan). When I first got it I noticed every once in a while there would be a "hesitation" when I hit the gas pedal. I discovered there is a Technical Service Bulletin that deals with this problem (TSB 006-04), which I believe involves resetting certain computer settings. I had this TSB done at my Lexus dealer (no cost), and the problem TOTALLY disappeared. In fact the car seems faster, smoother, and the gas mileage even improved.

chinese_kensei

No, my dealer told me that they would not going release any more information until late April to May cuz I might guess Toyota want the dealers at Taiwan to tighten their lips until they release more details during the NY auto show. :shades:
Oh Toyota is going to release the hybrid version too at the NY autoshow??? :surprise: Well then hopefully if they release it in Asia a couple months after the 460 launch, then I will wait and get the 600h instead cuz our fuel prices were twice as expensive as u guys in America :sick:.

mikegiller

I have a 2005 LS430 (Crown in Japan)

The LS here is the Celsior in Japan.

And, on to the supposed leaker of information, could it have been Mr. Kiyonaga? link title

From one of his posts:

As far as I know from my colleagues, there's only "ONE" price point for the LS600h with long wheel base. So I would expect this model should be loaded with lots of optional equipments plus an additional grill that distinct itself from the gas model. On the other hand one of the important things (believe it or not) that I discovered during my discussion with my colleagues was that they never mention anything related the LS500. This in turn have make me to believe that Toyota would not likely (as of today) to place in a 5.0L V10 into the LS series. Of course this is just only my present hypothesis and can subject to change!
I think I might need to re-contact my colleagues soon to see if this is what they have told me last week.
T. Kiyonaga

Kirstie_H

Folks, this is ridiculous. First, I can't be here 24 hours a day. We count on members, for the most part, to stay on topic and be civil to one another. Second, if you DO see a problem and I'm not visible in the discussion removing offensive posts, that means I'm also not seeing your "host, where are you?" messages (obviously). E-mail me.

And let's stop using terms that are clearly offensive to some people. There's no need to use them, and it derails the discussion.

This topic is NOT about other Forums members. If you suspect someone is messing with you, the best policy is to ignore their posts. It's not fun for them if you don't respond.

Any further posts that aren't about the 2007 LS will be removed without the courtesy of notification. Thanks for helping keep this discussion on track!!

suave_tequila

So who here has the new LS pre-ordered? And how much was it? BTW I'm soo lost on whats happening here lol!

cyclone4

I have placed my name on the waiting list for the LS600h. I do not know what the cost is.

jchan2

I'm not sure Lexus has released base prices on the LS460. If they did, then I missed it.

Did I miss it???

barrys

I fully agree with you. Not only can't you be here 24 hours a day, but just about everybody who uses this forum is otherwise busy and cannot waste a lot of time reading a bunch of junk. If it becomes a waste of time to be here for anybody, we will gradually lose all the expertise that comes to this forum making the forum useless.

Considering that the car under discussion is not available yet there are a lot of topics that cannot be discussed yet so maybe we an be a little more tolerant about general Toyota and Lexus topics, at least until the 2007 LS is out.

syswei

Imho we will not see pricing released at the NY show and in fact may not see pricing until a few weeks before each model goes on sale.

manegi

Nothing new to report, but the neighbourhood Lexus dealer told me today that the car will be available in Sept, and the pricing is expected to be "around 1 Mn Yen (that would be around 8-9K USD) higher than the current Celsior offering". Since Celsior (LS430) Ultralux package sells here for around 70K USD, LS460 probably will be 80K with all the options loaded.

They are currently focusing on GS450H release next month.

dennykrane

I went to a auto show last week hoping they might have a 2007 ls to view. No such luck. The sales rep. was a little disapointed as well as I was. I missed the Detroit show and I heard the Houston show had a 2007 ??? There is a Dallas show next month I will try there.

All the sales rep. had was a small 3 page booklet of things we've seen already. NO printer info at all. He also agreed the car would be available around Sept.

DK

bugfiat

The Lexus Canada web site has the features of the LS460 and the LS460L. Nothing new that has not been discussed here earlier. Seems that all the 'fancy' features are options. I am still hoping that they will have an all-wheel drive system without going to the hybrid version. But I know that it won't happen.

Check out this link:
www.lexus.ca/lexus/experience/en/home/vehicles/ls/veh_group.jsp?model=LS46FP&ser- ies=ls&year=2007

nvbanker

I have great interest in the LS460 - but presently, I have zero interest in the hybrid. Not sold on them yet from a cost/reward basis.

ljflx

With Lexus you're buying a more powerful engine if you buy the hybrid. So going that route is really not an ROI proposition. Instead it's an issue of whether you want a V10 or V12 instead of a V8 and if you do then Lexus has a clean highly efficient one that wlll get phenomenal city mileage and similar highway mileage to the base V8.

drfill

With the recent test of the GS450h, and it's 22 MPG (overall, observed economy), and .5 second improvment over the GS430, the effects are tangible and useful.

But a GS430 would get 18MPG under the same conditions?

But be .5 seconds slower overall.

Let's say the LS460 gets 20MPG overall, with less aggressive gearing, and better aerodynamics.

A LS600h would be faster. If it is to have similar power and performance to a 6.0 liter engine, it would be much more than .5 seconds faster! That's 33% higher displacement!

If it does 0-60 in under 5 seconds, which is what I would expect a 6.0L engine of the S600 or 760Li to do, and still gets over 20MPG (while the Germans get 14MPG? 15?), that would be huge!

I would also expect it to get BETTER economy than the gas V8, since this is what happens in the GS series!

And observed economy would be 15-20% below listed EPA economy.

So if the LS600h actually got 20 MPG, it's EPA numbers must be less than the GS450, but still well over the LS460.

25/23? Versus 28/27 for the GS450h?

DrFill

nvbanker

I know this. But I don't need a larger engine than my 430 has, it's plenty peppy enough to get me into trouble. I've had her up to 133mph. I'm not interested in the rediculous premium it will cost for the hybrid lightening power, nor do I want those heavy batteries to lug around with me, or have to dispose of when they're dead. I can just imagine the toxic waste fee those will bring at the dealership! In fact, I'm really wondering about the sanity of the V-12 crowd anyway, nothing personal folks. YMMV. I know this.

ljflx

I can't say I disagree with your logic - not for a second. But it just means you're not the buyer of a V10 or V12, nor are most people. But you just know there will be a waiting list for that hybrid so there are more than enough folks that will feel differently. If the car gets that 25-28 mpg it has been rumored to get than this car will be a ground breaking car in many ways and it will be very hard to get. IMO the LS600H continues to have celebrity car written all over it.

BTW - I know what you mean about speed. I was up at 110mph on I95 in North Carolina and it was so effortless. The car was screaming to be pushed a lot higher. But my wife said NO.

nvbanker

Ah yes, well, you didn't see me state ANYWHERE that I had my wife in my car at 133, did ya??? Only if she were asleep!

I think you're exactly right - that "h" has celebrity all over it, and it'll be interesting to see how many 7-er customer it wins over....

landi

Hard to compare the GS430 to GS450 one is V6 the other V8. But we have to start somewhere. I think your numbers are very conservative for EPA rating of 25/23 for the LS600. If LS 460 is average 25, then LS600 should be average 30. I know it seems very high. GS300 is 22/30 (average 26)and GS430 is 18/25 (average 21.5). If GS450 improves to 28/27 (average 27.5). Then 30 average is a possibility. But who cares if 0-60 is under 5.0 seconds.

drfill

I don't believe the LS will be more efficient than the LS. That's where I get an estimate 2-3MPG less than the LS.

The LS will be based off a V8, not a V6, so economy should go down.

Now if the LS, at 380HP, is more efficient than the GS430, than the numbers might come out the same.

With 8 gears, city numbers may go up to 20/21, and Hwy 26/27.

Let's say the LS gets 20/27. What would a faster hybrid get?

Like the GS, add 10 MPG city, and a couple highway, and you get 30/29!

DrFill

yak54

I know the car is months away, but how would one go about getting a dealer to give you a deal of $1000 over invoice with a deposit?

Anyone know of a dealer who would do that?
Thanks!

nvbanker

I'm not sure a dealer would be allowed to by the factory. Usually on a new intro where the product is scarce - if they sell them below sticker, the corporation restricts their new inventory for a while. Usually this is the case for the first 6 months. Which is why I'll wait probably until late 07 or early 08 to try to get one. The December to Remember is truly a bargain period for Lexus. We'll see how that works for the 460 in December 07. :P

lexus460l

I really doubt that there will be a dealer that will give you $1000 over invoice because the MB S550 which isnt even as hot as the Lexus LS460L is asking for $10000 mark up on the MSRPwhen it came out. So i dont know if you could get a Lexus with $1000 above invoice. If you can get one, please tell me and ill go get one too even though i already have a 2006 BMW 750 Li

ljflx

"He'll have to make them an offer they can't refuse" or get someone to do it for him, otherwise forget it for several years. Let's pray this car is not 5-10K over sticker.

dc661

The All-New LS Hybrid is scheduled to debut on April 12, 2006 at 9:25-9:50 AM (EST) at the NY Auto Show. Tune in to watch the LS Hybrid Press Conference live at that time.

cyclone4

I can't wait!!! I have a feeling this automobile will blow everything else away.

tagman

IMO the LS600H continues to have celebrity car written all over it.

Yeah, lj, that's a given . . . no doubt about it.

You can quote me on this:

TagMan says: The LS600h will overall represent one of the highest technological achievements in our entire automotive history.

When you consider all the technological features of that vehicle that are all rolled up together, I find it very realistic to make that statement.

So far, the general marketplace is showing that hybrid technology sells particularly well when utilized in the smaller vehicle lighweight division, but is more challenged in the middleweight division, and this upcoming LS will put the heavyweight division to the test for hybrids, in spite of its probable celebrity status.

Eventually, the general buying public may prefer the newer upcoming modern diesels.

The LS600h will be THE car to keep your eye on.

To be continued . . .

TagMan