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Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)
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a re-flash should be free of charge, but even so - there's some question as to it's long-term efficacy.
there's no part or fuel/oil additive that i know of that can be replaced or added for $90 that's going to solve the problem.
it just doesn't add up.
I note Bkinblk's offer to visit Minneapolis and test his car.
In the past few months I've flown my a/c into your city several times, and may have occasion to do so again in the near future.
If I do, any chance of taking you up up on your offer, Bkinblk?
If it turns out the erratic performance you report is obvious, I promise I will document it for all to witness in this forum, and publically admit the error of my
ways.
PS for Mr. Shiftright.
I believe you have the new e-mail address now--let me know if not received.
And FYI, my promise to you has not changed.
I note Bkinblk's offer to visit Minneapolis and test his car.
In the past few months I've flown my a/c into your city several times, and may have occasion to do so again in the near future.
If I do, any chance of taking you up up on your offer, Bkinblk?
If it turns out the erratic performance you report is obvious, I promise I will document it for all to witness in this forum, and publically admit the error of my
ways.
PS for Mr. Shiftright.
I believe you have the new e-mail address now--let me know if not received.
And FYI, my promise to you has not changed.
Wondered where you have been. Kind of confusing getting caught up on everything, I know, but it is 05camry33se who lives in Minneapolis, not bkinblk, and who offered the test drive.
Also, Mr. Shiftright asked tinman2 for his e-mail, not you.
Thanks for the flattery but I don't think my participation would have any weight whatsoever with Toyota; however, I'm certainly open to doing some detective work so that I can operate more knowledably about the problem. I guess you don't have to have a toothache to be a dentist but.....Mostly I'm wondering if I myself would find it annoying...maybe in addition to driving one of these "loafers" I could also pretend I'm writing the monthly payment check--that might change my attitude somewhat. :P
According to JD Power, Lexus models get the highest customer satisfaction ratings.
I personally never had any problems with any Toyota/Lexus products.
If so can you try an experiment for us?
Do a couple of downshift "nudges" of the sequential shifter when you know you might, may, encounter an acceleration recovery problem, hesitation, from an inadvertent upshift during coastdown.
I can't do that myself because the only downshift I can command is all the way down to 2nd.
There have been several news articles addressing the subject.
There are numerous personal reports here, on the NHTSA website and other internet discussion boards (the Lexus transmission problems forum has been around several years longer than this one).
NHTSA announced that they were looking into it.
Don't know if that is good enough for you.
I understand your question. Unfortunately this discussion has taken on a life of its own and some people post here sometimes several times a day. There is no doubt in my mind that posting how unhappy they are with their cars has become sort of a hobby, if not obsession for a few. My question is "if every time you get behind the wheel of your car you feel as though the hesitation may cause you to end up in deadly crash, then why not pursue every avenue of resolution". If someone truly does have hesitation in excess of one second, as a few claim, then that car would indeed be out of specification and an arbitrator would rule in your favor. Yet many have not even had the TSB, which adresses the problem For Those Who Have it, applied. So draw your own conclusions. I have no problems with mine either legar, but just saying those words is enough to ignite a fire storm.
Also, apologies about the mixup on Minneapolis identities-I went thru the last 50 or so posts in a big hurry--getting caught up gets one confused.
If and when I fly there in the coming months, I would be willing to test drive the vehicle owned by "whoever lives there"--assuming he/she is OK with doing that.
I thought that early on, someone here indicated that they could drive anyone's car (Toyota/Lexus v6 5spd automatic) and experience the hesitation, but I can't seem to find that post right now.
Jeff
Edit: I found this from post 144 wbay wrote: "I've driven several new HL's off the lot and can reproduce the hes at virtually anytime. Must be my driving style"
since we have people reporting they have no perceptual hesitation, we know both assertions by the manufacturer and dealer representatives are suspect, and what some people speculate may still be true (there may be a latent issue or one that develops over time).
on these points most of us "regulars" can agree.
777, I am one of those people. I have been reading this forum since before i bought my 05 highlander, (over 6 months and 8,000 miles ago) and continue to read it daily. I keep expecting to experience the hesitation, and every week that goes by, every month that goes by, every post that i read, has me more and more confused. Toyota says it is a designed in (ahem) "feature"...Maybe i'm dense, or ignorant, or just insensitive (might have heard that from my wife, on occasion) ;-) anyway, I guess ignorance IS bliss, cause i Love my Highlander. (maybe that's what my wife means?????)
Anyway, I hope there is a cure for this, as I know how agravating it can be to be unhappy with a car, and to feel it is unsafe is just torture!
As you may have read in my recent post from the other night, I was unable to induce the problem over about 15 minutes of driving. Then this morning I noticed it again pulling into the entrance to my parking ramp. Not as bad as it has been, but noticeable.
Overall it happens a lot less now than it did up to even a month ago. Why, I have no clue. Maybe I've just modified my driving habits to accommodate it.
Anyway, if you want to take it for a spin, let me know. I'll even pay for the gas just to get your opinion on this. Meantime, I'll keep looking for a repeatable way of getting the hesitation to occur. It seems the most likely time I've found it to occur is while maneuvering around in tight spots like parking lots, and situations where you need to apply gas, slow down, and then accelerate again, such as in stop and go traffic.
Chris
Did you review every accident report that has been made for every vehicle that is alleged to be affected for the last 4 years to see if anyone reported a problem with hesitation or lurching?
"Faulty transmission" would not be a sufficient term to encompass the problem. It has been described in a number of terms including delay in acceleration, engine hesitation, transmission hesitation, searching for the appropriate gear, lurching, etc.
Therefore at this time I do not find your conclusion that this problem has resulted in no accidents during the past 4 years convincing. Please post the data that supports your conclusion.
OH S........
What was THAT?
I suddenly found myself clear over in the barrow pit on the left side of the road.
Obviously I got off the gas pedal, rather quickly and back into my own lane.
My first experience with torque stear and it happens to be EXTREME.
Had there been an obstruction to the left of the on-coming lane I might not be here today. Even had I hit something serious what would the trooper have written up as the accident cause?
"Driver lost control."
I'm in Sydney and I have the 2004 Kluger/Highlander CVX. I should have known better - the transmission delay - because I read about the problem back in 2003 on this site for people with Lexus and the same 5 speed adaptive transmission. I just resort to slamming the shift back to second then count to 3 - Is that the problem you are on about?
How about the sloppy handling? you cant fix the transmission problem but I did fix the handling. Whiteline in Minto Sydney manufacture front and rear anti sway bars especially for Highlander/Kluger that make the car handle nearly as well as a BMW X5 - add the caster/camber kit and change the nothing Toyota factory set 2 degrees caster to 3+ then fix the poor wheel alignment and zero everything and you can actually feel the road again through the steering wheel. I also hate the "slingshot"- I call it the "runnaway" effect when the car sets off down a slight slope and changes up. I found that by switching off the overdrive it limits that. Oh for a manual version!
Also my car won't do better than 11 liters/100 Klm - 27mpg - on the Albury-Melbourne flat section of the Hume: no matter how I nurse it.
I'm replacing the 225/70/16" wheel tyre match with 255/55/17 Lexus wheels. The only reason the Ford Territory handles so well is the low profile tyres.
Now you're saying “I have yet to see any documented case where the transmission problem has actually caused an accident.”
I asked for the data you used to reach your first conclusion, and apparently your "data" is that you haven't personally seen it yourself. So your first conclusionary statement has been proven wrong.
I have to wonder what your motivations are to come here and cast aspersions against people here who are trying to work together to solve this problem.
“In fact, this transmission will soon be replaced by a six speed automatic beginning next Spring. Doesnt look like the "bad transmission" is hurting Lexus/Toyota in anyway. Just don't believe everything you read in internet forums.”
I think I'm starting to see the motivation....
at what?
I bought a new 05 camry 3.3 se in February. It would hesitate and then lurch forward and was hard to drive safely in stop and go traffic and parking lots at times.
Having already brought the car back in to the dealer once at about 3k miles for an oil change and having mentioned the aforesaid, and after getting it back from them with a Mobil oil change sticker on my windshield, and the oil cap dented, I didn't want to have them touch it again.
So, I spent God knows how many hours on the internet trying to find a solution on my own, and eventually found this thread. I've never done anything like this before to solve a problem for a car or anything else, and hope to never have to do again.
I'm not saying that my car is junk and I want to make the dealer buy it back after winning arbitration. I just want this problem solved if it is possible, and if not, I'll have to deal with it. But selling it after I just bought it, with the sales tax and new car depreciation, just isn't an option.
I used to smoke cigarettes but finally wised up and quit a few years ago. My cost to quit was zero, and I actually have saved a bundle. Getting rid of this car would be quite the opposite financially, and I didn't know about this risk when I bought it like I did when I picked up the smokes.
These are some of the reasons why I am motivated to try and find a solution to this problem. Thanks.
Chris
you've been a member for some time, what do you make of entries in the highlander P+S forum, the sienna P+S forum, the camry P+S forum, the avalon P+S forum, the lexus P+S forum... there are posters of different make/model vehicles from the (it just so happens) same manufacturer that have the hesitation. are we dealing with some mass delusionary psychosis, or is there something inherent in the implementation of DBW technology that in a percentage of vehicles, a problem exhibits itself in this manner?
if your highlander has a problem with a strong sulfer smell in the cabin, you conclude (1) exhaust gasses are entering the cabin and there may be some aspect of the vehicle design that is contributing, and (2) you probably have a problem with the vehicle running rich, and probably have a bad CAT convertor. research it - it happened to people, and toyota denied it was a problem...not everyone complained of the sulfur smell of course. question: were some of these people who weren't complaining, being exposed to exhaust gasses as they drove these vehicles? was it a safety or a perception / acceptance issue?
05camry33se, I hate to break the bad news but just reading this board and trying to make a case that your car has a severe safety issue is not going to solve your problem. Nor can you fix it yourself, so just how did your expect to resolve it without seeing a dealer again? You are going to have to let some dealer touch your car. An intelligent start would be to have the TSB applied. I know that the results have been reported as not always solving the problem, but I have read several people say it has. Then if that does not work proceed down the arbitration route, if it is truly really as bad as you say.
And before you say that arbitration takes too much time let me use that ridiculous analogy that some else posted; What takes longer, going to arbitration or eternity in that coffin? Absurd I know, but if you feel that your very life, and those of your loved ones are in jeopardy then wouldn't an intelligent move be to take the time to try and protect yourselves? In any case you are going to have to start out by reporting your problem to a dealer and letting him apply the TSB. Just coming here and griping and griping and griping will never solve your problem.
motownusa makes some very good points that any unbiased thoughtful person might make as well. Unfortunately, there are others here making amazing claims and assumptions about safety issues and coffins and running over children, who would do well to step back and look at this issue with an open mind and some reasonable perspective. You might just see how the exaggerated claims and unsupported assumptions actually discredit the whole issue to some extent.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
How do you think the TSB came to be? I would suspect it was from customers with this defect "griping and griping and griping".
You have mastered the art of saying things without really coming out and overtly saying them quite well, as in your unstated implication when you say "any unbiased thoughtful person"...I guess that makes me a biased, unthoughtful person, eh? ;-)
"...look at this issue with an open mind and some reasonable perspective". Again, it appears to me that the clear implication is that all those here who believe this is a safety issue have closed minds and unreasonable perspectives. You might have a bright future as a political spin doctor. Good stuff.
I guess I might understand your position that "there are others here making amazing claims and assumptions...might see how the exaggerated claims and unsupported assumptions actually discredit the whole issue to some extent" a little better if I knew what your standing to even engage in this discussion was.
I just stated my motives for being here. I bought an affected vehicle and came here looking for a solution.
What exactly are your motives for being here? Thanks.
Chris
I posted message #1866 regarding the hesitation problem. The Toyota dealer in my area applied the TSB 00505. It changed the hesitation problem, but didn't resolve it. The hard transmission change that sounded like someone was hitting my car is not as evident, but I now have a delay after coming to a stop and accelerating.
I'm being pro-active about the problem. Seeing the postings on this forum has helped: I know that I'm not the only one having the problem and other forum users have given me tips on how to handle the problem. I will pursue the suggestion about filing a complaint at NHSTA, which is something I didn't know about until reading this forum. I will test to see if the delay is only "one second!" I know that the lemon law in Washington states that if the dealer made two attempts to "fix the problem," that I have a case. :lemon: I've complained and visited my dealer on at least four occasions!
Just one last gripe about this whole issue: I'm disgusted that I'm making payments on a $25,000 car and it has transmission shift problems.
Are you going to the fair? Wife and I plan to go on a weekday. Renton s-curve backup and SR167 are a bear on fair weekends.
Is there no out there with a sequential shift system with the problem?
This is why I advise people to soft pedal the "safety thing" with these transmission issues. You'll be torn to shreds in arbitration on that point and that's makes the more legitimate parts of your case look less so IMO.
Not sure about the fair, there are things I'd like to see, but days off don't coordinate with them.
Not sure about sequential shift system - you're a little over my head on that one!
From other complaints on different forums, I understand that the ECT-i (learning transmission) might be a componenet in the overall problem. Seems that most people complaining with similar problem have the V6 auto transmission. I have found that with the overdrive off, the problem is less noticeable. However, on my 2004 Camry XLE there isn't an off button for overdrive, so every time the car is started the overdrive has to be turned off manually.
I have to mention that up to this point I was always a fan of Toyota. I have a 1992 Toyota Camry that was the best! It never gave me any problems and its still running with over 168,000 miles on it.
Have you noticed any change in your mpg the last couple days?
like i said, we should all look for volunteers to ride with somebody that has brain damage resulting in delayed synapses on the order of a one second...
1. The base cause of the accident, torque stear, would not be "recorded".
2. The vehicle did something I was totally unexpecting....
Sorta like an "engine hesitation" that one doesn't know is upcoming.....
"...applied the TSB 00505...I now have a delay after coming to a stop and accelerating."
Do you get a delay after coming to a full and complete stop? I haven't, just curious.
"I will test to see if the delay is only "one second!"
Good luck. When I wanted to make the delay happen the other night, I got maybe a half second delay max over 15 minutes of driving very slow trying to make it occur. Tonight, I was in a slow lineup of cars by downtown, going about 2-5 mph max, and when I would give it gas to speed up on several occasions, nothing.
I now know better than to keep pressing down harder on the accelerator though. I just first backed off it a bit and then eased it down again very gently. It took about 3 seconds to actually get anything happening each time, but I avoided the dreaded (and very obnoxious looking no doubt to other drivers) lurch.
I must say, it is very embarrassing to be driving what I consider to be a cool looking car and have it lurch in front of everybody...especially when kids walking on foot are in close proximity...really makes one look like an intentional (insert choice word that starts with "a") when no such intent existed. The unpredictability of this problem is a big part of its annoyance factor for me..
Something came to me today - not everyone complains about this problem, but you and I do and we're in the same area. I'm wondering if this is some kind of "batch" problem and our cars are in the same "batch." :surprise:
With the hesitation, I've learned to accomodate for it by giving myself a bigger gap in traffic, which is annoying to those behind me, and I let off the gas and re-accelerate.
jbuchanan
This really should not be that difficult to diagnose.I've spent many hours on 1 car trying to figure out a problem car but I guess it's a matter of pride with me,good luck let me know how things go.
jbuchanan
Chris