Options

Diesels in the News

13738404243171

Comments

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Honda to have clean diesel in every state in 2009:

    Honda greener than Toyota but no one really cares
  • bhw77bhw77 Member Posts: 101
    Honda to have clean diesel in every state in 2009: - unless we change EPA standards again...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    If we do it will be for the sake of cleaner air - so it would not bother me one bit !! :shades:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    While the effects of the policies of Globalization unfold in front of us, we either do not see what is in plain sight or are narcotized to what is really going on.

    Globalization is supposed to make (oil is fungible!!!) and hence "globalized" products such as barrels of oil....

    CHEAPER !!!!!????

    Yet only using two examples, fuel is close to 7 dollars in Europe and yet .24 to .30 cents??? in Indonesia and Venuezula?? Of course here it is 2.50 or so.

    Don't worry about autos, check this out.....

    Regardless of the sales pitch, energy efficiency is an opportunity that Americans shun, as less than 5 percent of the world's population consumes almost 25 percent of global oil production.

    While gas-guzzling vehicles draw the most criticism, homes and businesses consume even more energy -- 40 percent of the U.S. total in 2005 versus 28 percent for transportation -- and provide the biggest potential for savings.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070309/us_nm/usa_environment_building_dc
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If Honda offers the Pilot or MDX with their diesel engine I could be persuaded to look past the arrogance of the Honda dealerships. I imagine the first couple years will be a real sellers market like the Prius & Jetta TDI. I would probably go out of state to buy.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    I don't think the honda dealers are arrogant. They seem to be the "straightest" of the dealers. 'Course there are differences dealer to dealer.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Well folks, it’s not a train we didn’t see coming, but it still ticks me off.
    A news report tonight that the price of chicken, beef and pork are all going up because of the demand for ethanol.

    Thanks GM and Ford.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Don't forget the corn tortillas going out of sight in Mexico. We did see it coming just the politicians did not care with pockets full of ADM and Verasun money they can afford filet mignon no matter how expensive it gets.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    CA, Bakersfield Hwy 99 Exit Merced Ave.

    3.159 unleaded regular
    3.249 mid grade unleade regular
    3.339 premium unleaded regular
    2.199 propane (if anybody cares)

    2.859 #2 diesel

    Probably not news, but #2 diesel is cheaper than unleaded regular.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The EU is adopting a "Green" rating system from "A" greenest to "G" least green.

    Even between near-identical models the difference can be striking. Swedish firm Saab's gasoline-powered 9-3 station wagon rates as a G, while the bio-diesel version scored an A.

    Green Scale
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Maybe in California but in KC unreg is 2.49 and diesel is 2.79.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well I would rather pay the 2.51 than what I pay now, but is that for ULSD?

    http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/gasoline_CF.cfm?state=CA

    At this posting for KC, MO

    MO, Kansas City I-435 Front Street

    2.399 unleaded regular

    2.509 #2 diesel
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    For some reason I am fascinated by this auto which is supposed to be sold in the U.S in 2008. It will have a 4 cylinder common rail diesel that reportedly will get 43 mpg and sell for about $35K.

    Mercedes is one of the least reliable cars made in recent times, diesel costs more than reg in most places, performance would not be very good, and the dealers have an arrogant air about them. If I just wanted to save money and fuel I would probably be much better off with a Nissan Versa, etc.

    So please tell me why I like the idea of the C-220 so much.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    Yes, I guess that overall I am better off than you it seems. The 2.79 is for ULSD and the prices I posted are on the Kansas side, where I live. Higher taxes and higher greed it seems.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I will be right over! :)

    Yes when it comes to the MB line it is definitely; buyer beware. :(

    I was that way with the Jetta TDI. In many respectives at 89,000 miles, it has exceeded many of my expectations.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think Mercedes is trying to shed that reputation at some dealerships. I think they are becoming more pro-active with problems also. I see Lexus falling into the same arrogant trap that MB was in. As much as I think our 1990 Lexus is a great car, I would not buy another one. The local dealership being the main reason. That and the newer ones are ugly.

    I think 43 MPG in a mid grade luxury car could be one reason you like it.
  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    You can buy almost three Jetta TDI's for every MB 320 CDI.

    IF you go the gasoline route you will have to use ethanol which will give you poor mileage.

    You could do like our congressman and buy yourself a large SUV, use ethanol and get around 12 MPG.

    Your choice.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes I think the good/bad news for both MB and VW is there are tremendous opportunities for constant improvement and refinement.

    For example, many of the problematic things about VW Jetta's, if other Edmunds.com Jetta threads are any indication are related to the gasser engines. So the TDI dodges thos numerous bullets. Of course TDI's can and do have their own issues.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,740
    hmmm... am i the only one that doesn't sound so impressive to? I mean, the E-class is bigger, heavier, WAY more powerful and gets 36 mpg. I guess I'd just expect a much bigger mileage advantage to the C220. Maybe I'm not looking at it right.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Bye, Bye gas guzzling race cars! Now if we can just get Nascar on board.

    The reason that this vehicle is here on the green side of things is the diesel engine which powers it. Similar to the Audi R10 racecar, the hope is to take advantage of the fuel mileage benefits of the diesel engine over its petroleum-fueled competition. Audi did this to good effect last year, dominating the racetrack when it was on the grid. Peugeot hopes to do the same this year.

    Two diesel powered racecars on the track this year,


    Peugeot-908
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well I think with the new EPA news and RANGE, a lot of things get muddled in the translation and transition. So for example, I know from someone who owns and drives a MB E class diesel (not CA plates) at a steady 80 mph, gets 40 mpg.

    Today, I did a round trip on Interstate 80 N/S and got a 51 mpg, keeping it under 85 mph. I was using the slow and left of slow lanes. The car is bone stock.
  • ggurr54ggurr54 Member Posts: 30
    51 mpg at 85 mph? don't believe it for a minute.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    A VW Touareg TDI driven by Carlos Sainz (former winner of two Rally World Championships) has raced the last two years in the Paris-Dakar Rally through the Sahara Desert. The team was winning while racing until it break down because of accident one year and some electrical problem the next :sick: But the potential of the Diesel to win the race is still there.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    51mpg is a bit of a stretch for real 85mph but less so for an indicated 85 mph. i got 48 mpg reliably for about 60k miles with my 2003 TDI - most of the miles done at a real ~80 mph.

    in other news, VW announced a V6 2-a-reg TDI for 2008/USA.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yeah, I did it on stretchs of highways between San Jose and Davis, CA. When it was new, I took it down to Los Angeles, it got 50 mpg but at a slightly higher speed, in the rain also. It is a 5 speed manual. I don't normally fill until it gets down around 500-600 miles, but in the Davis, CA area, many of the corner stores have diesel, so these two places side by side were calling my name with a pretty good but same price.

    Right now it is at 89,000 miles. What is yours at now?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "51 mpg at 85 mph? don't believe it for a minute."

    Yeah, I would not believe it for a minute either, especially when it is easy to duplicate. This is the second trip I did, but the last I got slightly better: 51.4 vs only 51. so at .4 mpg, from a general accounting point of view, you round down. :) I was used to getting 48 mpg or so but at higher speeds. As (some) folks probably know, this is a higher traffic route with a fair amount of LLCer's. So I changed the driving strategy a tad. By using the slow and left of slow lanes, you actually do go slower but gain app 3 mpg. The down side; I have intermittment issues with road hypnosis. :(:)
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    hi ruking1. my 48mpg 03 TDI is long gone. I drove it until 60k miles, then traded for 05 passat TDI which I drove until 50k when it got massive hail-damage. now i drive an 06 5-spd TDI: 44mpg -> 47mpg is what i've been getting on that one. 20k miles so far.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I have heard great things about the 06 Jetta (on par with BMW build quality etc.) Seems you are NOT missing much in the MPG department also!!

    As you well know you will not see full compression for another 30-40k !! So mpg should improve!?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "Widescale Biodiesel Production from Algae
    Michael Briggs, University of New Hampshire, Physics Department

    (revised August 2004)"

    http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

    ..."The UNH Biodiesel Group and a few other groups across the country are working on improving the technology for growing algae and processing it into biodiesel. Due to the lack of government funding for this field of work, UNH..."...
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Wow.
    Wastewater > algae produces bio-fuel + treats waste water + creates fertilizer.

    What's not to like? Except that there is no apparent political will to get this potential working.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Gallons of Oil per
    Acre per Year

    Corn
    18

    Soybeans
    48

    Safflower
    83

    Sunflower
    102

    Rapeseed
    127

    Oil Palm
    635

    Micro Algae
    5000-15000

    This one table is like a sledge hammer right between the eyes.

    http://oakhavenpc.org/cultivating_algae.htm

    But the above was referenced and cited in (reference #15)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel#_note-11
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    First Drive: 2008 Volkswagen Jetta TDI - Previews 1 | 2

    Volkswagen’s 50-state-compliant Jetta TDI will be among the cleanest diesels in the U.S.
    BY JARED GALL, February 2007

    http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/12424/first-drive-2008-volkswagen-jetta-tdi- .html
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Link is broken. I would like to read this.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,920
    The link works for me..

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • jimlockeyjimlockey Member Posts: 265
    Please, I would like to see this site stay a little closer to diesel fuel, diesel cars, diesel trucks. Even politics about all of the above.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here is part of it. looks like VW will be ahead of the game on this one.

    Amid the looming hordes of European luxury automakers planning a North American compression-ignition invasion in the next couple years, humble Volkswagen has announced its plans to return the Jetta TDI to the diesel dogpile in the spring of 2008. Powered by a new 2.0-liter four-cylinder making 140 hp and 236 lb-ft of torque, and either a six-speed manual or DSG automated manual transmission, the 2008 Jetta TDI will be cleared for sale in all fifty states.

    Some of the earlier diesels to make it to our shores over the next few years will only be available in 45 states; California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, and Vermont have all adopted stricter emissions regulations for diesels that bar some vehicles from entry. Using technology developed under the BlueTec cooperative formed by Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen, the Jetta TDI will slip by these stricter regulations without resorting to a urea-based exhaust treatment, as many BlueTec labeled models will.

    Nitrogen oxides (NOx) are, along with particulate emissions (soot), the biggest hurdles facing diesels in the U.S. Most BlueTec vehicles will control NOx by injecting a urea-based solution called AdBlue into the exhaust system upstream of a catalytic converter that specifically targets NOx. In that catalytic converter, the ammonia in the urea reacts with the NOx in the exhaust gas and neutralizes it into nitrogen and water.

    Volkswagen’s Jetta TDI will manage without a urea injection system by using a NOx-storage catalyst. Like the particulate filters in place on this car as well as other diesels, this catalyst is basically a trap that temporarily holds the offensive emissions. Periodically, the engine will switch to an air-fuel mixture that will burn off the material in the traps.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I can't recall when I read this in passing, but Corning, the upstate New York company, who is better known for telcom fiber optics, inked a deal with VW America to provide or be a vendor for the diesel emissions filtration.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Yes, but given the upcoming choice between a Honda diesel or a VW diesel I would choose the Honda.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I may also, but why? I think the DSG transmission is superior to any automatic Honda builds. If the new generation of Accord is as ugly as the current. I know I would pass on the Honda. Though I am not that fond of the current Jetta look either. Also my closest VW dealer is much easier to deal with than the Honda dealer. Honda thinks so much of their cars they question why you would want to test drive them. I do think Honda has built a good diesel engine. When they get it all loaded down with CARB emissions, will it still be any good? Same goes for the new VW diesel.
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    I don't think it is an issue of looks. It's reliability and low VW customer loyalty. Check this article and the comments:

    http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2006/10/vw_looks_to_imp.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Oh gosh, so probably would I!? My take through out all of this is/has been: diesel option for ALL models( or as many as the market will bear)! Bottom line: choice is good!?
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    The VW folks sold me a Rabbit once.. it would be hard to buy from them again..

    I remember the waiting room with near fights from the customers and customer service folks... yelling ... hollering... and a lot of disappointed folks... I would not even register to win a VW..

    One of only 2 vehicles I ever owned that were bad... the other a chevy Vega..
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The nexus of the politics: they affect/effect diesel/s much more so, for the passenger diesel population/s is/are very small (less than 3% of the passenger vehicle fleet population). For example you have 5 states that have a new car ban AGAINST sales of new car passenger diesel/s. In comparison there is NO equivalent ban on so called gas guzzler: Ferrari, "Lambo" Hummer, Bentley, BMW, MB, etc, etc,.

    Indeed I would swag "the normal suspects" are a much bigger population both numbers and percentage wise than the less than 3% diesel fleet.

    A modest proposal.

    As soon as one is inducted into the "Hollywood Elite" or whatever ELITE such as SNOBS ONLY, etc, etc, or even wanna be's, they should be mandated to buy and pay the cutting edge price for the cutting edge stuff like hydrogen powered cars at $18. per gals with 22 mpg. Or even the ill fated EV vehicles. Half a million for a hydrogen car? Should not be a problem for those folks if Robin "Champagne Wishes and Caviar Dreams" fame LEACH, or others of his ilk is/are correct!? No more free Prius's for example to get the word out.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think much of the problem is poor VW dealers and a period of poor quality control. My local VW dealer was good to me, and I bought my Passat out of state to get the TDI. I had one issue that I did not notice until we got the car back to San Diego from Portland. It was the volume control on the steering wheel. Drew VW took the car in gave us a loaner and replaced the steering wheel. I have heard of many Toyota and Honda dealers that do not give a loaner car even when they sold the car needing service. Most of my dealings have been with GM dealers and the two in San Diego were great. The two in Alaska left something to be desired. Interesting fact is it was the dealers in Alaska that sold me two of the trucks that were not very helpful. I think it has been said here before. The Dealer may be more important than the vehicle manufacturer.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    I prefer the reliability and resale of Honda vs. VW. That said, the interior materials were nice,the interior tasteful,and the handling nice on the last VW I drove. I just wouldn't buy one.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I would not disagree. I am very curious what the resale value of the Honda cTDI will be. I am more than satisfied with the resale value on the Honda Civic 2004 gasser.

    I am sure Gagrice can chime in about the TDI's resale value with very little mileage and in the short term. I am still simply amazed with 90,000 miles and a 2003 (46 mo old) that the VW Jetta TDI will sell for what I paid for it NEW.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't think any car on the market holds its value any better than a VW TDI. I bought one new drove it 13 months 8k miles and sold it for $3k more than I paid out the door new. Two year old Passat wagon TDIs are still going for $30k with over 30k miles. I sold mine too cheap.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    That's because you don't have a Honda diesel with which to compare the TDI.
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    Two year old Passat wagon TDIs are still going for $30k with over 30k miles. I sold mine too cheap.

    It could be the result of the artifically created scarcity in the five non-diesel states. Once that is gone, the resale value of used TDIs may change significantly.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "It could be the result of the artifically created scarcity in the five non-diesel states. Once that is gone, the resale value of used TDIs may change significantly. "

    Well I would suppose you could say that about the artifically created fuel crisis? There is an artificial scarcity of cars that get 42/49 mpg???? :)
Sign In or Register to comment.