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Comments
That sports car test drive sounds like fun but my previous employment(retired)won't allow that. I suspect that 'Swine' and I had, or have similar careers. Re: mass and impact,etc.... Based on my experience whenever two or more vehicles come together, nobody wins !
Thanks again to you and others for the Info...
As far as the TL article goes, the tester was probably right off the showroom floor, so there is the break-in issue. However, TL is fair because they test all of the trucks the same way. They tested a 6.0L Silverado 4x4 with a 4.10 axle ratio a month or so ago and I believe it got less than 14mpg solo and under 9 towing. I think the mpg figures in TL are one of the best things about the tests they do. The trucks they test almost always get lower than advertised, and they give you an unbiased look at what you might expect.
Hopefully, the TL article will help the Tundra bashers come to grips with the fact that there is now another solid contender in the 1/2 truck market. We all benefit from the increased competition, regardless of what brand of truck you drive.
It may even be useful to describe to us the working environment. I am sure that the Georgetown plant is similar and there has been no attempts to organize even though the UAW has an office down the street from the factory. I witnessed this with my own eyes.
Your post raises some interesting points. I would like to see a bit more than unsupported statements to back up your claims. Please understand that this is not a challenge but a polite request. I don't want to start a war on this issue but if you have the data, I really would like to see it.
Footnote:
TTB Game Plan A: "Try and convince potential buyers not to buy a Tundra because the quality and reliability of the Toyota Tundra are not as good as the Old3".
TTB Game Plan B: "Try and convince potential buyers that a Tundra is not a 'Full-Size' truck".
The Tundra basher army:
Quadrunner-General in charge
barlitz-propaganda officer
rubluetoo-Intelligence officer
The rest are the field grunts and post only what they're told to by the elite officer corp listed above.
Manee of them Chevees be shakin Rube...
Tundra Access Cab
Interior Room: Front shoulder room - 62.0", Leg room - 40.5", Head room 6.0" above person 5' 9", Rear shoulder room - 56.0", Fore-aft room - 24.0", Rear head room - 3.0", Door top to ground 66.0", Exterior Dimensions: Length - 218", Width - 75", Ground clearance 9.0"
F-150 XLT Supercab
Interior Room: Front shoulder room - 63.5", Leg room - 42.0", Head room 7.0" above person 5' 9", Rear shoulder room - 60.0", Fore-aft room - 24.5", Rear head room - 2.5", Door top to ground 70.5", Dimensions: Length - 226", Width - 80", Ground clearance 10.0"
Silverado LS 1500
Interior Room: Front shoulder room - 65.0", Leg room - 40.5", Head room 6.0" above person 5' 9", Rear shoulder room - 59.5", Fore-aft room - 23.5", Rear head room - 3.0", Door top to ground 67.5", Exterior Dimensions: Length - 228", Width - 79", Ground clearance 9.0"
Ram 1500 Quad Cab SLT
Interior Room: Front shoulder room - 65.5", Leg room - 40.0", Head room 5.0" above person 5' 9", Rear shoulder room - 62.0", Fore-aft room - 22.0", Rear head room - 3.5", Door top to ground 70.5", Exterior Dimensions; Length - 224", Width - 79", Ground clearance 8.5"
The F250 XLT 4x4's at my local dealer cost more than my loaded AccessCab LTD Tundra. I did consider buying one but the 250 was just too big for my needs. Th F150 was the right size but I heard all kinds of bad experiences from Ford owners/drivers. After driving Toyota trucks for 8 years the Tundra was what I wanted, a full-size Toyota truck!
Imagine how much less the F250 would cost, or how much better the quality or reliability would be, if it were made by a non-union company. The money for those higher wages has to come from somewhere!
*********************************************
(1) Kansas rancher feeds 200 "smart shoppers" like you.
Your last post made me think of a question that I don't think I've seen asked. Why do you post here? Is it that you truly believe the Tundra is not a good truck? Is it that Toyota is not owned by Americans? What??
How do you feel about Chrysler now that they have merged with a German owned company? Does this mean that you would only buy from GM or Ford now? Don't you think the folks in Toyotas' Indiana plant are Americans? Do you think every worker that is not unionized is getting ripped off?
Do you think the auto industry has just goofed up and mislabeled the Tundra as full-size? By the way, what make and model of vehicle do you own?
You got my support, and keep on truckin' Rube !
PS: Just ordered a Tundra...
By the way, America wasn't built on unions, it was built on the free enterprise system. Competition is good for all parties involved, TBA, including the Holy Big 3.
Best,
Geezer (as in old )
Not stating GM superiority or anything of the like. Just an observation of one so-called fact that I know for a "fact" is incorrect.
that "didn't show up as inferior to any of the so called Big Three"'
I think the big three guys will agree with you on this statement. What was your point?
Toyota people - get over the superiority complex. Your trucks are just as volatile and prone to failures as any American made truck. Slamming the Big 3 does nothing but lessen what little credibility you start with.
Big 3 people - give the union stuff and all the Toyota bashing a rest. Respect the right of peoples choices in this Democratic society. When it comes down to it, who really cares. The Toyota buyers just bring the prices of our American trucks down to more affordable rates and increases quality control of our trucks due to the competition. The sales figures year after year prove whos doing what the best. If the Big 3 was junk like they are made out to be here, Toyota wouldn't sell landslides less vehicles as the Big 3 trucks.
Let the Toyota owners slam our trucks, while we laugh all the way to the bank.
that "didn't show up as inferior to any of the so
called Big Three"'<<<<<
Especially the timing belt.
(LOL!)
So...tell me again why you are supporting a company that is shipping jobs to Mexico instead of a company that is making jobs in the US?
I am very satisfied with my purchase. I have never had a "bad" GM truck out of the many over the years I have owned. I have owned two Toyota trucks that were good for what they are, but each spent 8 weeks or longer in the shop for head gasket repair, both under 40k miles. Toyota quality????? Superior to American???? I have not seen it. I had a 93 Camry that continuously chewed up flywheels and starters since new. The money I spent in purchase and repairs on that car, I could have bought two American made equivalents and probably would not have had the repair problems with them. A "rebuilt" starter for that thing alone was $120 vise $40 for a brand new American equivalent. I have had many GM cars that went over 100k miles without any major repair. I could go on and on with comparisons, but that would be defeating my point. My point is that even though I have had MUCH better luck with American made vehicles, I don't feel the need to come to these topics and BASH imports and disrespect people like you do. Nobody wants to hear your garbage. Tell of your experiences in a respectful, non-slamming way and your posts will have much more credibility.
I come here not out of buyers remorse. I could have bought two or three Tundras in cash payment had I wanted to. I drove the Tundra and it did not impress me at all. It was a smooth accelerating engine and I am sure it is as good a truck as any as far as all catagories, including reliability, but certainly no better than any other truck make. It does not compare in size or package options as the big three and costs way too much for what you get.
If you look at the topics about the Tundra, both here, as well as other boards, there are PLENTY of Tundra owners that are not as pleased as you are with the Tundra. All the people that you hear complaining are the ones that [non-permissible content removed] and moan about every little thing, no matter what make of truck it is and would probably [non-permissible content removed] just as much if they had a Tundra. Then they go and buy something else, maybe a Tundra, and [non-permissible content removed] and moan about it also. They are never happy with anything and eventually run out of truck makes to buy.
The amount of GM trucks with "real" problems are very few and are related to the same vibrations that the Tundra has. Ironic thing is that even the ones that end up getting their trucks bought back, turn around and buy another GM truck. Gee, I wonder why that is?????
Your points of Toyota superiority are invalid. They may fool the unknowing non-mechanical crowd, but those who really know the industry do not give you and other domestic bashers any credit at all, because they know the truth of the matters. However, they, unlike you, don't feel the need to come to these sites to bash imports or tout domestic superiority in a futile attempt at making credibility in their truck make choices.
Do you want to respectfully talk trucks and be one of the informed or is your only motive to bash domestics and talk trash of things you really know very little about. Your current methods keep you ignorant.
My peace.
Then leave the topic. I have looked at some of the Chevy topics, I don't see a bunch of Toyota people bashing Chevys. I see Chevy owners bashing Chevys. The Tundra topics are for Tundra owners and those wanting Tundra information. Why don't you spend your time bashing the Tundras on those sites that are set up for it. We don't need to hear the same old complaints out of you everyday.
Not all non-Toyota people who visit this topic are saying this and your opinions and perspectives are appreciated by me. But there are other people who do seem to have other motives than provide facts ( i.e. do what ever it takes to keep people from buying this new truck).
You are right it is a personal decision about what truck you want. All of them have positives and negatives. It took me 3 months to decide, it's not easy. It's a matter of which one has the most positives you care about and the least negatives you can live with. There is no perfect truck. I feel that trying to give information about the pros and cons of the Tundra is part of what this topic is about. The problem is that everyone's opinion of what is a pro and what is a con are different. Some people view the fact that it's a Toyota as too big a negative to get over. You're also right about the reliability of the Tundra, they've only been out for what, 7 months? However there IS a difference in management style, customer care, and design philosophy amongst the different manufactures. This does affect your vehicle experience in the long run and this is how some of these feelings about different manufactures come about. By the way, what figures of reliability where you looking at?
As you said part of the reason you come here is "to make sure you guys aren't spreading uneducated lies about my vehicle". That is what people here are trying to do too. And you're right, we should check out the other topics.
Why do Bud Light Dude, Rubluetoo, Smcpherr spend so much time on this site??
They come across like the geeky little hall monitors in grade school...BLD and Rubluetoo should have spent more time in English class learning how to spell rather than roaming the halls!
Regarding the quality/ reliability issue: Read any of the annual car reports from Consumer Reports, clearly GM/Dodge (and to a lesser degree Ford) products don't match Toyota's. These unbiased reports show a clear difference.
Law of averages says I should go with the better track record--so I have.
Regarding the Import issue: At least I know every Tundra truck I wave at passing by was made in the USA by Americans who needed a job too. Can Ford/Dodge/GM truck owners say that?
Regarding full size issue: That's in the eye of the beholder. Interior room is excellent, towing and hauling capacity meet MY NEEDS, sitting between the F350/Ram/Silverado and a Dakota, and it drives better! On those occasions you Big 3 use every ounce of your capacity--Great!! And on those occasions when you need a little more--I guess you really screwed up. Should have bought that F-350. My neighbor bought a F-350 4x4 crewcab powerstroke diesel and I'm sure he feels the F-150s, the Silverados, and the Rams aren't close to full size. He's a great guy. I complement him on his truck, He complements me on mine. He'd just like to see a dead elk strapped to my hood, that's all:)
My advise, enjoy what you have, and quit pissing in our Tundra Wheaties.
Get real. I have had more problems with three Toyota's I have owned and spent way more money too, than I have with the dozens of American vehicles I have owned. I guess my experiences can be considered law now too. So who is the hall monitor in the stalemate. Why, Toyota owners, of course! They are the almighty, no all's around here.
Tell me Toyota owners, what advantage or disadvantage does dual overhead cam present in a truck for heavy use? This is not meant to be a trick question. I want to hear one of these Toyota owners that can identify this intelligently. I don't give a rip if you can spell correctly or if you know how to use spell check. This has no correlation to intelligence at all. Some of the most famous and genius inventors and engineers were basically illiterate.
Thomas Edison was not schooled, but was a genius.
Let me hear about your knowledge about this superior Toyota you have. Intelligently discuss how it is advantageous to domestic designs in both functionality and reliability. I don't want to read a marketing brochure. I want to read YOU telling everyone this info.
I would venture to say you will most likely call up a mechanic friend and ask him or her to help, because again, most likely, you can't answer to any type question. But yet, you will still spout off crap you know nothing about and claim Toyota superiority.
What a joke.
am/fm cass,front tow hooks,4whl ABS,keyless entry w/remote start,skid plates,alarm.The truck is bright clearcoat red with chrome and black.Ford also has the engine that will run without antifreeze and the 100 mile tuneup intervals.I'm sure there's more just can't think of it.Truck did list for 31555.but I am a good negotiator.It took me 3 hours and an arm wrestle to get that price.I'm not gonna harp about the unions I'm a firm believer in supporting my Country.I do believe the Mexican workers are UAW.I don't know what they make but if it is $21. american they could retire after 1 year of service.Unions do not like jobs going to Mexico or Canada for that matter but I think it has something to do with NAFTA.I read that Ford is trying to get into the Chinese market and sell vehicles,I also read that the Japanese Yen is at an all time low and there prices are dropping.What I don't like about that is they will ship more vehicles and pawn them off to Americans but yet they won't except american vehicles in return and alls that does is increase the deficit between the US and Japan meaning we owe them more money.In return it costs everybody money in your tax money.Do you think because your trucks are built in the US is the reason why they are having some problems?Is it the build quality that makes you think your trucks are so inferior?By the way I hit 2 squares 9-0 and 3-6.