Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories

Kirstie_H

No... same day. Pushed to the front of the queue. Last car, some materials were couriered to my house instead of having me drive back to the dealership to complete. I'm working 12-15 hrs/day, and this stuff is way more important to me and my stress level.

I realize that for you, paying the lowest possible price is the top goal. If that's what blows your hair back, great! I'm not knocking it. But that's not always what it's about for everyone. One size never fits all, and if you don't believe it, I've got some really nasty-looking drawstring pants to show you (not a bargain, even at half price).

graphicguy

exb0....no need to get upset over this.

You asked the dealer for his offer. He told you. It wasn't to your liking.

As others have said, if it's worth $12K to you, float that number to the dealer.

Sounds like you just have to move on and find another car you might be interested in. Or, if you're really interested in this car, tell him what you're willing to pay. Worst he can say is "no". He's only asking you what you think is reasonable to you.

socala4

It's not about one person's behavior, it's about sticking to certain principals and letting "cumulative" effect take place. We as consumers also manage to make this place miserable by agreeing to play some of that game.

Well, the cumulative effect we have at the moment is a nation full of buyers who largely know little or nothing about invoices, incentives, etc. and who tend to buy on impulse (they may be vaguely shopping, but they pull the trigger too quickly). And many of them either don't know how to negotiate or else greatly resent the notion of negotiating, even though negotiation is a normal human activity that we've been doing since childhood. (We all probably cut one of our first deals by telling our mothers "No!" or by negotiating our bedtimes. Negotiation is literally kids stuff.)

So you aren't going to change that. What is happening instead in the world of car sales is this latest trend toward "relationship"-based sales, with which the dealers smile and cajole while they otherwise do the same stuff that they have always done.

Since the vast majority of us buy a car every once in awhile, we would be best served by just paying as little for it as possible on the few occasions that we need to buy one. It's not a crusade, it's a purchase, and since the margins are all over the place, I accept my responsibility in shrinking the margins to the lowest possible level. Since the tactics are so easily countered, I follow the path of least resistance and just stand ready to counter them.

jipster

I take my minivan in for service(oil change/tire rotation)in 2 or 3 times a year. Out of all the people coming and going all the time, I doubt they remember who I am...or care to look up in their computer files how much I paid for my van.

How do you know the guy who paid invoice or below isn't getting the same "special" treatment you are getting? Perhaps the dealership treats all their customers like royalty.

1racefan

" I doubt they remember who I am...or that they keep it in their computer files how much I paid for my van."

Correct, but I bet a lot of service departments track how much the customer spends on service with them

tsgeisel

Let me add to this, that if you're opting out of the whole "Start very high to make it easier to get to a medium price" technique that is the traditional part of the sales process, respond back, politely, and let them know why they're not even possibly getting your business. It may make them think about what they're doing (for a second or two).

Because the email back from the dealership was nicely polite. "Ok, we disagree, if you change your mind, call us." Can't ask for much more than that.

But if you just don't think you'll be able to negotiate down to your price, you owe it to yourself (and them) to at least make an offer at your price and see what they can come up with; especially if you can quote TMV or other online pricing at them.

grandtotal

S: Ok sounds good, I'm just trying to provide you with pricing opitions. Please let me know what price would be reasonable to you on this Taurus.

Sounds like an invitation from the sales person to tell him/her what you would like to pay. How hard would it be to send off an email saying I'd like to pay $12K? He may come back with $15K, in which case you've lost nothing or you just might be the owner of a Taurus, you never know.

Kirstie_H

I don't, and I don't have the time or energy to keep up with who may or may not be getting more than I am, or who may have paid somewhat less than I did. I'm not advocating that my stance or mindset is right for anyone apart from me... I'm just asking that others make the same consideration.

Perhaps this is heresy, but there may not be a One True Purchasing Method™ that is divinely ordained as the path to post-purchase happiness (with apologies to the bobst technique).

jipster

I don't think anyone was implying that your stance or mindset on car buying is right or wrong. Just that you may be in error if you think you get special favors from the dealership by overpaying "a bit".

snakeweasel

One True Purchasing Method™

:surprise: OMG :surprise:

We might have something in common.

Kirstie_H

Do you like dark chocolate? Have red hair? Play squash?

Oh wait... you were talking opinions on purchasing strategies

Groovy, jipster. If I can find a nice pair of off-white dress shoes at half-price, my day will be complete. Just so we don't get too entrenched in the idea that our own particular goals are or should be the goals of any other shopper, that's all I'm saying.

socala4

Just so we don't get too entrenched in the idea that our own particular goals are or should be the goals of any other shopper, that's all I'm saying.

It's fair to question whether some of these alleged benefits of paying more actually achieve the desired outcome. For example, if Jipster and I are getting the same service while paying less, then exactly what good is supposed to come out of paying more?

Kirstie_H

Well, it's almost impossible to compare, isn't it? I mean, unless you live in St. Louis and drive a G35 that you bought this year at a lower price than I paid, it's unlikely that we can truly compare what I'm getting compared to what you're getting, versus price paid.

What makes me more irritable than paying a higher price is having others tell me what my personal shopping goals should be, quite honestly. I kinda like myself, and I'm also pretty durn satisfied with my shopping experiences.

If you two are getting great service and you paid a lower price, then great! In an effort to avoid committing one of the 7 deadlies, I'll deny myself the indulgence of envy.

snakeweasel

Just your use of "One True [enter favorite subject]" with the trademark sign afterwards makes me think that we might have come across the same organization at some time in our lives. So I must ask does the name Kip mean anything to you?

socala4

Well, it's almost impossible to compare, isn't it?

Not really. I see plenty of anecdotes about folks who received service, both good and bad, and I'm not seeing any meaningful connection between the service level and the price paid.

As far as I can tell, the difference between good and bad service seems to lie largely with the management of that individual service department, not what you paid for the car, and the vibe between the showroom and repair area can be quite different.

What makes me more irritable than paying a higher price is having others tell me what my personal shopping goals should be, quite honestly.

That's your decision, of course. I would assume that some of the readers of the thread are looking for ideas to save money, but those who have other goals can do otherwise. I'm not just seeing anything strategic about paying more when paying less gets you the same exact car with the same service for less money.

graphicguy

One True Purchasing Method™

This has got start up written all over it kirstie. You need to get some "angel" financing set up immediately.

As I've said previously, no single neotiation technique works for all people. While I've never been willing to spend more for a car just to find out if I get better service, I don't know that something like that doesn't happen, either. I'd say having a positive relationship with the service dept will net some preferential treatment, however.

I do know that the more business thrown my dealership(s) (be it my personal business or referrals) way does net me good deals and positive service experiences.

I don't know if you can make a blanket statement about Chevy, Ford, Toyota, etc, dealerships, but some of the "high line" dealerships gernerally pride themselves on giving top notch service (to go along with the premium prices they charge for service work). They GIVE loaner cars. Offer pick-up and delivery (complete with a car wash) of my car at no charge.

I know this isn't such a big deal in these days of computerization and caller ID, but I know whenever I call my current dealerships, I'm greated with "Hi, Mr GG....how can we assist you, today?". If I ask for sales, the guy I bought my last car from answers the phone, without me announcing who I am. Same with service. I get the same service guy, all the time....addressing me by name, with my service history already at his fingertips, whenever I call.

I don't consider that "extra" service worth more money at buying time, but it sure does sway where I will spend my car purchase dollars.

dino001

Just won't let go, will you?

Not only has to be right every single time, but now tells the host how to live her life and what is appropriate to post on her board. :sick:

snakeweasel

Just do what I do, just ignore him, I stopped even reading what he writes. Makes life a little bit more enjoyable.

michaellno

My .02 on the subject:

Now, it may be that Saturn's approach to service is different than other "non premium" brands, or it may be that I now own 3 Saturns, but I happen to know my service advisers pretty well at our local dealership. Not on a "let's go out and have a beer" level, but I'm certainly more than just another customer number to them.

I guess I don't see anything wrong with establishing good working relationships with companies that you do business with often. If you are only buying a car every 3/5/7 years, then that's one thing, but as a member of CCBA - I've bought or co-signed on 5 cars since 11/02 - we've worked with the same dealer on 3 of those deals, and the same person who sold me my L300 in 2002 was the UCM when our son bought his L200 in 2004.

Our most recent purchase was done at a store owned by the same dealer group where we purchased our other 3 Saturns.

Kirstie_H

Ahem... let's just focus on our own posts and not on other members. It isn't "my" board, but thanks... at least now I feel like I own something cool besides my stereo

Would be cool if we actually got some posts from new members looking for advice, or even a story, pray tell?

jipster

or even a story, pray tell?

Yeah, I got a good story for ya Kirstie. Actually it's not that good...but it beats getting up and mowing the lawn.

This story is focused on negotiation/purchasing strategy mind you, and even though is not car or dealership focused, the same principles apply.

In my pre-married days, before caller I.D, I recieved a phone call from some goober inquiring as to if I would like a free demonstration of his Kirby vaccum cleaner. Now, as most of you know, the Kirby is the Cadillac of vaccum cleaners. This gentlemen indicated he would vaccum and shampoo my carpet for free(oh how the jipster loves that word)and demo the Kirby. Well, around 6 or 7 p.m he shows up and demos the Kirby. My vaccum cleaner is getting long in the tooth, so I'm thinking of buying the vaccum cleaner that can literally suck the fillings out of your mouth.

Well, this salesman finishes the demo, then reassures me I can buy the Kirby for only $1,500. :surprise: ...I say.
"Excuse me?" I sit in stunned silence as my fiancee fans me with a magazine so I can regain consiousness.

So, this salesman(about 22 years old)starts talking about payment plans, loan percentages, ...I'm like, " Is there something about that vaccum cleaner I don't know". Salesman says yes, that it also comes with attachements that allow you to paint your house(which it did).

Though unintentional, my strategy was to sit in silence and kept repeating how much the Kirby cost. He responded with,"How much do you think a vaccum cleaner of this magnitude should go for". I was thinking of paying around 300-$400 for a regular vaccum, so I say $400. He grimaces, then offers it at $1,350...then about $1,100 an hour later. It's getting late,he ends up calling his manager(closer)over to my house. Which at the time I didn't care much for. Anyhow, his manager starts talking up the Kirby and how good it cleans and all. But, I'm like...there's no way in hail I'm paying a grand for a vaccum cleaner, even if it did the dishes and laundry...no way. Time marches on, and on(11p.m-midnight maybe). Finally they offer it around $750. Noooo, that's to much I say. "Well, how much will you pay?" says manager. I say $600. The manager looks at the salesmen and asks him if it o.k with him, actually telling him he sold one to his grandmother for $950...and granny might not like someone else paying so much less. Well, they sell it to me for $600 plus my old vaccum cleaner...which they forgot to take.

Well, 4 months later I propose to my finacee, now looking for a little extra cash. I sell Kirby for exactly what I paid 2 days after the ad came out in the paper.

Morale of the story: time can be a great ally in negotiation, let the seller throw out the numbers to lower the price. The salesmen and his manager probably put in 6-8 hours combined...and were going to sell me that Kirby at the lowest possible price...works for cars too.

snakeweasel

Oh I used to sell Vacuums back in my younger, wilder, and less practical life.

I can tell you that the markup on those vacuum cleaners ar sky high. I bet that he used a written sales script, and to tell you the truth I love those because those people are so fun to fool around with. I did the whole script verbatim until the pricing when I broke with it. I became up front and honest and told them what the sales price was and what I would really sell it for (which was something like 40-45% of the original price). Of course my boss didn't like that but he couldn't argue with my success rate and the minimal amount of time I spent at a home.

graphicguy

But jipster....you paid way too much for that Kirby....if you would have done the negotiation as others have told you, you could have saved hundreds more....... :P

Another true story, but it happened about 8 years ago. At her request, I was with my sister to help her shop for a car. For business, I always carried my cell phone with me (at the time, a brick hanging off my belt). After the test drive and just sitting down to look at numbers, my cell phone goes off. It was our mother calling to tell us her great aunt had passed away (the aunt was 101). Now, none of us were very close to her. Matter of fact, we had not seen her in years.

I expressed my relatively minor shock and heartfelt sympathy to my mother over the phone. I hung up and relayed to the sales person that we would have to close off negotiations and leave due to a sudden death in the family.

Sales person, expressed his sympathies (not so heartfelt) and being quick thinking, said...."if I can conclude this in the next couple of minutes, you can pick up the car later." My interest piqued, I asked how he planned to make our negotiations compress. He phoned his manager. Told him of the situation. Manager comes out of his office to our cubicle in short order. Offers very brief condolences and gets right down to brass tacks. He said he'd sell the car at invoice to make a quick sale in defference to our time constraint (this was on an '98 Accord, which at the time had just gone through a complete redesign...and wasn't selling for anything near invoice).

My sister gave him a $1,000 deposit. She picked up the car 3 days later.

explorerx4

this thread has been great today.
when i was back in college i took a sales course. our project was to sell advertising for the program distributed at sports events. it was pretty much a rubber stamp. go to the existing supporters and get them to renew. i thought about it and came up with a new prospect and sold some space. no big deal, it was like 50 bucks for a quarter page.
i ended up with a grade of 'B', until i pointed out to the prof that i was the only one to sell a new account.
that bring us to 'Kirby'. after getting out of school, i went to the training sessions.
they wanted us to lift up the sheets on peoples beds and vacuum to show them how much stuff was down there.
i couldn't do it. i didn't even try to sell my parents one.
even though i have bought vehicles from the same dealer for the last 15 or more years, i always let them know i am doing my 'due diligence' with other dealers.

socala4

I had no idea that anybody sold vacuum cleaners door-to-door any more, or that's the way that Kirbys were sold. I have an old one that I inherited, including all the attachments, and I was wondering whether it was worth anything. I'll have the check it out.

But in any case, even if I don't know if I would have been up for an late night appliance purchase, you obviously did well for yourself. I'm sure that some would have seen the need to develop a longstanding relationship with the vacuum sales manager so that you could claim to have a "friend in the vacuum business" and could be widely recognized in the retail household appliances community, but you wisely understood that time pressures and the sales team's desire to close were ultimately more useful for meeting your objectives, namely obtaining the right price.

snakeweasel

The one I sold was a Tristar which could out suck a Kirby any day (but Kirby is more versatile). One thing we did on the demos were to pick up 1/2 nuts and bolts with the beast. I still have one

explorerx4

snake... maybe i would have been better off trying to sell a tristar, as long i didn't have to supply my own nuts.
every time i have bought a vehicle it has been a different experience. i never feel like i have it 'figured out'.

jipster

Actually I wished we had kept the Kirby(The Hoover we have now sucks). I remember our Kirby as a Generation 3, I believe,...self propelled, heavy duty steel, quality throughout.The salesperson lifted a 15lb bowling ball with it during the demo. (a gimmick I suspect)The things are suppose to last forever.

Perhaps if I had established that "longstanding relationship with the vacuum sales manager" by paying $1,500 back then, I would be able to purchase a new one today...for say $1,200?? Get a couple free carpet shampoos for being such a good customer, have them clean out my gutters and paint my house with the thing. Who knows.

snakeweasel

The Hoover we have now sucks

Excuse me but isn't that what its supposed to do? :P

imidazol97

Actually used Kirbys are a big market and in high demand. It's a little like used cars. Our housekeeper uses only Kirbys. She keeps a spare so she can have her main unit serviced. It really is a quality unit.

Even older designs have values. She had explained what to look for when we considered buying a used one to have one at the house of our own rather than relying on hers and our Hoover.

bolivar

The only Kirby I have been around was an overweight monster.

With an ungainly bag hung off one side.

An owner needed the strength and drugs of a professional football player to wrestle the thing around a house.

Mom, out in a country farmhouse, bought an Electrolux, which did NOT suck (when a vacuum is supposed to suck) and the Kirby, which did suck but was s chore to drag around the house. Both from house-to-house salesmen. I got her an upright Hoover and the Kirby never left the closet.

Dad also bought an aliumum re-paint job for the barn sheetiron roof. Which quickly faded away. Those door-to-door salesmen. Car sales techniques before their time.

geo9

A local mega dealer in Syracuse NY has rows of 05 ex
rental Taurus cars with 15-23k miles for $10,995.

Start your offer from there..............

jlawrence01

Compare that to the Carmax in Chicagoland that was selling a 2001 Taurus SE with 48k for $10,9.

chris2max3

I just had to jump in. Kirby vacuums have a lifetime warranty and you can take your old one in and have them update and refurbish it. My dad likes to get them at yard sales...

graphicguy

Another story from years ago....I was shopping for a used car for my son. This was about the same time of year as we're in now (July/Aug). Anyone living in the midewest knows what our "mid-summers" can be like......mid 90s, high humidity.

My son and I trucked out to a few dealerships that might carry something suitable to his budget (not much, at the time).

Finally found something that would fit the bill. It was a Chevy Prism (corolla clone)...low mileage, cold A/C, stick shift. Since it was a manual trans, not being the most popular cars to buy since it seems no one knows how to drive them anymore, I figured we could strike a good deal on it.

It was at a Chevy dealer who is one of the "megla mall" variety. We're eyeballing the Prism. Sales guy jogs out to greet us. Now, I've got nothing against someone who is working hard, but this guy got to us, all sweaty, that turned into a sloppy handshake. But, the issue was, he really "stunk"...not only of BO, but like he hadn't bathed in a few days. I literally couldn't stand to be within 10' of him. He asked us a few questions and then asked if we wanted a test drive. I declined and left.

Went home, called the SM of the dealership's used car dept. I explained what happened. Nothing wrong with the sales guy's approach...he seemed likeable enough. I just couldn't stand dealing with him because of his "stench". SM appologized and assured me he would assign a different sales person to us.

My son and I kept looking around and found another car to our liking. We never went back to that dealership based on that one incident, though.

graphicguy

Or...you could have told them there's no vacuum cleaner on the face of the earth worth $600 (of course, the Dyson folks my disagree with you on that point)..... :shades:

nortsr1

jipster: god story. I can relate to that. Back in 1954, when I was discharged from the Navy (honorable that is) I was newly married and wanted to immediately get a job. Saw an ad in the paper for "door to door" salespeople". Applied, got the job (along with about ten other guys), received some training on the "Kirby vacuum cleaner and attachments" and every day thereafter, we were dropped off in various neighborhoods to "sell" those Kirbys.The best part was a demonstration whereas I would take an attachment, vacuum part of the mattress with a kleenex type filter attached and show the "VICTIM" how they were sleeping on "dead skin and whatever else came into view".For everyone we sold, I believe at that time the commission was $100.00. $100.00 was a hell of a lot of money to me in those days.
To make this long story short, I worked for two weeks, spent about a buck a day for lunch and NEVER sold a damn one. I then realized my future was not in door to door sales. I took a job with Seaboard Finance Company collecting BAD ( I mean very BAD bills). Worked at it for 5 years and finally became a police officer for the next 26 years. Amen, brother!!!

jipster

snake:the Hoover sucks in a suckie way. Tristars could outsuck Kirby...but only in a suckie way...which Kirby was not.

explorer: I guess Kirby tells their salesmen not to go into peoples bedrooms anymore(temptation to use the Kirby inappropriately perhaps.)My salesman used our couch for the test you described.

bolivar: Yes, the Kirby was very heavy. But, back in those days I was benching around 320lbs...so it didn't matter. Also, the Kirby was self propelled with a 4 speed transmission ...which also made it easier.

graphic: I'm not an expert in vacuum cleaners(try to stay away from them as much as possible), but if any were worth $600, it would be Kirby.

nortsr1:Thanks.I don't know if people open there front doors anymore to anyone...much less door to door salespeople, I know they don't answer their telephones. Maybe, it's just me?

hosts: How about a seperate discussion for people with current or past life experiences with the Kirby?

socala4

Thanks a lot. I had no idea about that, I'll have to look into it.

This thing is a beast. It must be fifty years old and it's built like a tank. It's made of steel, definitely not easy to lug around, and the attachments are baffling, but I still like it. I prefer the plastic Hoover vacuum as my "daily driver" -- it sucks well, so it doesn't suck -- but now you've got me thinking that the Kirby might actually be worthy of some restoration. (Probably a cheaper rebuild than a car from the same era...)

Kirstie_H

Sure! I just created one in our Forums at www.vacuum-cleaners-are-offtopic.com.

snakeweasel

Now for our next off topic discussion, lawn mowers. :P

graphicguy

the Kirby was self propelled with a 4 speed transmission

Was it a manual or automatic? Could you put a "Hurst" t-bar linkage on it? :surprise:

OK....I'll quit.

tsgeisel

In the meantime, stores from the days of door-to-door selling and other commissioned sales stories would probably be welcomed in the "Stories from the Sales Frontline" forum, where the topic definitely drifts to the land of Off on a regular basis.

tidester

In the meantime, stores from the days of door-to-door selling ...

You mean like the Fuller Brush guy? I can neither confirm nor deny that he is now posting in this very forum!

tidester, host

biancar

Fuller Brush guy, Avon lady, Electrolux salesmen - all a disappearing breed! I used to sell Avon when I was in college, and did pretty well at it.

I bought an Electrolux from a door to door salesman. My mom had an E'lux for 30 years, worked great, so I had a good opinion of them. When the guy knocked on my door, I had just recently bought my first place, and I had a white dog that shed. Prime customer.

This was in 1983. I just gave that very vacuum away to Goodwill two weeks ago. Still works fine, but we now have a central vacuum installed. Also E'lux.

So, any of you sales guys start out your career being door to door salesmen of any type?

snakeweasel

Her chariot

Raced 80 per

They hauled away

What had

Ben Her

Burma-Shave

tidester

LoL! Very ...



tidester, host

snakeweasel

Along IL state highway 53 around 50-55 miles SW of Chicago there is a set of Burma Shave signs still along side the road. Not sure if they are original or someone put them there more recently, but they are there.

tidester

If they were the originals they would certainly show their age. The last time I saw them was MANY years ago and even then they looked VERY old!

tidester, host

snakeweasel

They would show their age if no one was doing some upkeep. My understanding there are a few left that some groups are maintaining (or even replacing if need be). Either these were maintained or replaced, not sure.