Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories

graphicguy

And.....controversy for controvery's sake does no one any good. Neither does anyone who claims to be the self proclaimed best negotiator...and everyone else who doesn't buy a car exactly the way he/she does, is paying too much.

Everyone has a different way to get to the same result. Doesn't necessarily make one person's way wrong and the other person's way right.

I'd say that most here know what they're doing. Those that don't, usually ask.

jmonroe

I don’t think any game can be easy to play unless you know the rules.

Your post 2390 was very good and explained the rules. Therefore, once you know these rules, how hard can it be to buy a car? When you have completed your research and have come up with the correct price, the dealer either accepts it or he doesn't. If the process takes as long as one hour you have already spent 30 minutes longer than it should have. The last time I bought a car (June 2006) I used the internet and phone and it didn't even take 30 minutes.

It's nice to have you on this thread.

Welcome aboard,

jmonroe

driveright

I agree with you completely. I described a negotiated sales process (The Game) as I have come to understand it from my experience and from reading here at Edmunds. I like to solve puzzles, and the conflict of posting buyers vs. posting sellers intrigued me. I believe that buying a car IS a tricky game for those who are NOT expert, and especially so for a novice. If anyone doubts this assertion, I suggest reading a few pages of the now closed forum “Dealers Tricks - bait & switch, etc” to which many on this forum have also contributed. I did not mean to imply that a buyer’s strategy has to be complicated, and certainly not for the expert buyers who are regular posters. I guess I gave that impression. Sorry.

Thanks for the welcome. It feels nice.

carguy3500

I AM NEW TO ALL THIS TALKING ON LINE BUT I AM A SALES MANAGER AT A DEALERSHIP IN WASHINGTON STATE AND HAVE BEEN FOR OVER 20 Y RS IF YOUR HAVING TO PLAY GAMES WITH A DEALER THERE PROBLEY NOT THE ONE FOR YOU THIS IS HOW IT USED TO BE BUT NOT NOW AND IF DEALERS ARE STILL DOING THIS THERE NOT SELLING MANY CARS HEARS YOUR BEST ADVICE CALL OR ASK TO SEE THE MANAGER TELL THEM WHAT YOUR AFTER UP FRONT IF ITS A GOOD STORE YOU WILL GET IT IF NOT TIME TO MOVE ON AS A MGR. I WILL TALK TO ANY ONE

tidester

Welcome aboard! I think you have a point there.

Incidentally, I suggest turning off your CAPS LOCK. People tend to ignore message typed in ALL CAPS.

tidester, host

nortsr1

and please use spell check!!!

jmonroe

I want one!!!!!!!!

Ahhhh they're nice, just got mine via FedEx this morning.

Typical Edmunds high quality stuff, just like the coffee mugs they sent at Christmas. BTW how was you're mug inscribed? Mine said 'jmonroe' in what appears to be 14K gold. It never goes in the dishwasher.

Be patient, your T-shirt is probably on the way.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

BTW how was you're mug inscribed?

Mine was inscribed with my name too, and yes its 14K gold which confuses me as I cannot understand why they would engrave a solid gold mug with 14K gold.

jmonroe

...I cannot understand why they would engrave a solid gold mug with 14K gold.

The one I got for my birthday was like that too and I couldn't figure that out either.

If you have some time ask 'tiedster' or 'kirstie', I'm going to get a haircut now.

jmonroe

carguy3500

im sorry i hade caps on it wasent ment that way. i would be more than happy to help eny one with car advice. i do know there are still some bad stores out there.but i do know there are a lot of good ones

[Deleted User]

You said you're a sales manager at a dealership???

carguy3500

YES I AM

carguy3500

there i go again with my cap locks on every thing i do for work you have to have them on i will try to turn them off

moeharri

I think he's getting at the lack of punctuation and capitalization, the spelling mistakes, and grammar issues in your posts that make them hard to read.

jipster

Well, I think it would be helpful to the consumer to give us a little insight into the negotiation strategies that are taught to your employees. What things are taught and said to salesmen in order to help them maximize profit for the dealership? How about some "real life" examples?

carguy3500

i will not be made fun of.and then you ask for help?i think i will search for a group that is a little nicer and not so judmental

carguy3500

at least i tried

Kirstie_H

Folks, if you don't like someone's messages, please simply skip them rather than giving the member a hard time. It'd be nice if we could welcome new members rather than lighting in to them straight off.

If you think there's an issue with a member, please alert a host by e-mail rather than taking the discussion off-topic by posting about him/her in the Forums.

snakeweasel

No one is making fun of you. Just pointing out that it is easier to read a post if the grammar and spelling is better than what you have been giving us. Now not everyone is perfect and we all have our share of grammar and spelling mistakes and kept to a minimum a post can be read perfectly well.

However repeated grammar and spelling errors in a post that has no punctuation is very hard to read. If your posts are hard to read they will be of little interest or benefit to anyone.

Also please note that typing something in all caps is considered shouting.

Anyways welcome to the forum.

[Deleted User]

yeah...what he said

graphicguy

I'm confused.....

You're mad at us.....why? :confuse:

carguy3500

IT SEEMS BECAUSE IM IN THE CAR BESS.THAT I AM AN EASY TARGET.I COULD HAVE HELPED!!! BUT IT DOES SEEM YOU DONT WANT IT. GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU

tsgeisel

We have a number of folks (well, a few) here who are in the car business. We have nothing against you, or what you do, per se.

A few people have commented on the readability of your posts, due to grammar, spelling and capitalization issues. But, really, only in a constructive way.

I can point you to some way less-friendly sites if you like, just so you can get a better idea of how welcoming this place really is.

Ok - back on forum topic: First rule - embrace the power of "No". Practice at home if you must. You can get a lot just by walking away.

Kirstie_H

Hi carguy3500,
As tsgeisel mentioned, we have several members who are in the biz, and we enjoy their advice and their sales stories. We'd love to hear some of yours as well!

Some of the comments may have come off as harsh, but we're really a friendly bunch. The spirit behind the comments was that if you help improve the readability of your messages, it makes it a lot more likely that others will read them and respond, and make this Forums experience interactive and fun. The comments weren't meant to be a slam, but to help you fit right in to the conversation. So, we hope you'll stick around and participate.

mikefm58

Me thinks carguy3500 is not in the biz at all.

snakeweasel

You're not alone.

jipster

I would question your definition of what a good deal is. If I can comfortably afford a car...that doesn't necessarily equate into getting a good deal. The other parts: being happy with the deal and getting a car that suits your needs are "parts" of getting a good deal. But, for most people "getting a good deal" means paying less than the "average" purchase price... or TMV...PLUS all the other stuff mentioned above.

Interesting reading , a good summary of what is found in a lot of this discussion. Though, somewhat slanted in favor of the salesman...not totally surprising considering your background.

ashl

Points well taken jipster.

My main purpose with that summary is to focus on the "parts" of the deal that matter most in the long run. I have seen quite a few people pay less than "TMV" or even less than invoice but realize in the long run that they bought the wrong car, or bit off more than they could chew payment wise. Those folks come back six months later wanting to trade down or refinance or any other form of help.

So I feel it's more important to make sure you can comfortably afford the car and the car fits your needs than simply paying less than the other guy. No doubt that a fair price is part of the overall "good deal" picture, but not the premier determining factor.

Thanks for the reply.

ps. sorry bout the link, my mistake. I am a salesman afterall.

jipster

Hope you can hang around for awhile ash...we, or maybe I should say I, won't hold being a salesman against ya.

graphicguy

ashl....good post. I hope you stick around, too. It's good to get some more level headed folks that sit on the other side of the table.

Welcome!

bobst

I completely agree, ashl.

I have always said the most important thing is to buy a car that you truly want. The price is secondary, as long as it is within your budget.

snakeweasel

I have always said the most important thing is to buy a car that you truly want. The price is secondary, as long as it is within your budget.

I would have to disagree with you on that one. Price should be the primary thought. Prior to even looking you should see what your budget is for a payment and what you can put down for a downpayment. You work this backwards til you get what the maximum price you can afford. Then and only then start looking at cars you can afford with that figure as the maximum. Pick what best suits your wants and needs out of what is available to the price you come up with.

The major mistake people make is finding a car, figuring out what the cost would be and trying to figure their budget around the car. Many times that puts people with more car than they can afford.

jipster

The price is secondary...

LOL...aren't you the guy who was going to walk away from a deal because the dealership was going to charge you one dollar more than what you had agreed to?

audia8q

Are you kidding me?

Most folks don't have a clue how to budget and certainly don't have the common sense to properly budget for a major purchase, like a car. I think people should buy what they want but like you said, it should be well within their budget...You should spend a few days looking at credit reports like I do....you would be amazed how some folks live. I see people who make 150K per year and if they miss one paycheck their world will come tumbling down. Or the family of 4 that makes $45K a year (poverty level in Connecticut) and they are looking at $35K Explorers because they NEED a third seat and SUV....its amazing

british_rover

We see people here that are looking at a 70,000 dollar Range Rover and I get a question like this...

"How much do I need to put down to keep my payment under 700 dollars a month?"

This does not happen very often but it does happen from time to time. When we tell them that using average new car rates they are looking at putting down 40,000 dollars just to hit 699 there mouths drop so much you could drive a Range Rover right through.

These people have no idea how much things cost and most of them are so addicted to rebates and incentives they don't know how to shop for a vehicle that doesn't have rebates or 0% fiancing for 72 months.

I had a couple come in last Saturday to look at Range Rover Sports and the other vehicle they are looking at is a Escalade. They are similar in price although the features on the Sport dwarf the features on the Caddy.

After we got back from the test drive one of their first questions was...

Them: "What kind of special finance rates do you have?"

ME: "Land Rover does not offer special rates on the Range Rover Sport. Rates are average new car rates but we do have a special relationship with a local bank and they offer very agressive rates that are competitive just about everyone but a credit union."

Them: "Oh cause we can get 0% financing for the Caddy..."

They left a few minutes later and won't return phone calls or emails.

I am sure they bought the caddy just because of the 0% even if it is an inferior vehicle.

snakeweasel

Are you kidding me?

No I am not kidding you. Mind you I said that should, not that they do.

You should spend a few days looking at credit reports like I do....

I do, I am well aware that what people should do is different than what they do.

I see people who make 150K per year and if they miss one paycheck their world will come tumbling down.

I see people like that all the time. I do some work with people getting their finances straightened up. The sad fact is those people that make 150K/Yr over extend themselves as much as those who make 45K/Yr. As hard as it is to work with the $45k/Yr (much less to cut back) it is much harder to work with the $150k/Yr as they don't want to give up their status symbols.

Lottery winners are the worse.

tsgeisel

I'd love a chance to prove that not *all* lottery winners are worse.

When I went looking I gave money to the financing company and to the dealership (probably) by extending the payment schedule to make sure my monthly payment would be, not just comfortable, but *extremely* comfortable. I never want to have to worry about making my car payment; so I'm paying less than $200/month for mine. And that's with craptastic credit.

People who talk about $700+ car payments and affordability may as well be talking to me in a foreign language.

snakeweasel

I'd love a chance to prove that not *all* lottery winners are worse.

Most that I have come across were spending money faster than they were getting it. Its not unusual for someone to wing 15-20 million only to be working at Wally World later on in life because they spent the money like a drunken sailor.

Found money is easily lost.

People who talk about $700+ car payments and affordability may as well be talking to me in a foreign language.

Agreed

audia8q

it is much harder to work with the $150k/Yr as they don't want to give up their status symbols.

It's fascinating isnt it? After my younger and wilder days I managed to get my life in order and figured out that the best status symbol in life was never having to worry about money. Huge payments and living beyond my abilities wasn't going to help my cause....I heard a great line from a radio financial guy...live like nobody else today so you can live like nobody else tomorrow. I didn't get it when I was younger.

jmonroe

People who talk about $700+ car payments and affordability may as well be talking to me in a foreign language.

That makes two of us but as we know and as several of our friends in the biz have said, it happens quite often. We should cheer up, they are the ones that keep our economy going.

jmonroe

jmonroe

I am sure they bought the caddy just because of the 0% even if it is an inferior vehicle.

If they did wouldn't you say that they were at least trying to stay somewhat within their budget?

It sounds like the typical customer that is buying payments rather than buying a car. If that is truly the case it's hard for Rover to compete with that as you have found out. With enough feedback from the dealers, if Rover really wants to compete, they will have to change their ways.

Just curious, what do you think their monthly savings would be without having to pay interest, given what you think they were going to finance?

It's for reasons like this that I am glad I was never in your business.

jmonroe

kyfdx

Over a 60 month term, interest makes up about 1/6 of the amount re-paid on a typical car loan...

That makes the Caddy 17% cheaper than the Land Rover, assuming the same selling price...

bobst

Yep, that be me. I don't like to play games with people and I don't like people playing games with me.

snakeweasel

what do you think their monthly savings would be without having to pay interest, given what you think they were going to finance?

Well based on a $70K sales price and a loan term of 72 months the difference between say 7% interest and 0% interest would be over $220 a month. just a few dollars less than that for a 60 month loan. Or roughly 16% cheaper for 60 months and 18.5% cheaper for 72.

And I wouldn't call Caddy inferior, at least my Caddy comes with a stick.

bobst

Yeah, Snake, your points are very good.

I guess some people have a great desire to own things they cannot afford, but I have never been like that. I was perfectly happy driving our 1972 Datsun 510 for 13 years while we saved enough to pay cash for a new car.

I just turned 61 and the most expensive car we have ever bought was our 2005 Accord - $20800 OTD.

british_rover

The majority of our new car buyers are cash buyers. The second highest percentage lease and I would guess traditional finance represents around 30% of our business.

What I detailed above does not happen that often since most of these buyers pay cash. Maybe it happens twice a month on a busy month.

You can't compare the Caddy cars to the Caddy trucks. The cars are actually very nice and I see Cadddy being a serious competitor to the European makes in the next couple of years. Their trucks on the other hand are just not worthy of the name.

tsgeisel

Their trucks on the other hand are just not worthy of the name.

Worthy of the name "Cadillac" or worthy of the name "truck"?

british_rover

Not worthy of the name Cadillac.

snakeweasel

I agree Caddy shouldn't be making trucks. On the other hand I think they are serious contenders for the European brand. The V series is proof of this. Saw an XLR-V today.

british_rover

I think so as well. One of my clients bought a regular CTS recently and really does like it. He was in yesterday picking up his Range Rover and I got a chance to walk around his CTS.

Build quality looked top notch and the styling was very very good. They only thing I did not like were the wheels. They needed to be a bit more edgy for the vehicle and maybe once size larger.