Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
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The cost matters only as a guide helping to determine how much it may be lowest you would be willing to let go for, barred you did not buy an overpriced POS.
There you go - "fair profit" discussion, again. :sick:
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The point is that one thing was promised but something else was delivered. In the least, I would expect compensation of 15-50 cents/mile.
Contractually speaking, the whole transaction could be nuked because the condition of the vehicle was NOT as promised.
another way would be to look on ebay for cars similar to what you are looking for, and see what they are going for there.
thing is, every used car is different, so there is no particular formula that will give you a price on one type of car across the board. you just have to do lots of research to see what everyone is asking, and go from there.
-good luck!
-thene
IIRC, the PDI checklist that we received didn't indicate anything about miles driven. I challenge you here and now to post an actual Honda Motor Co. document that "requires" their vehicles to be delivered to retail customers with at least 10 miles on them.
You're getting (hopefully) peace of mind (well, at least, out of something gone bad) as well as that much difference in later trade value.
It's fair, if not more than fair, to you.
99 out of 100 times there is nothing wrong. If a wheel alignment is off a bit or there is a rattle somewhere, that is the purpose of a road test.
They are, indeed, being fair.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'm putting my money on ccccompson...10 bucks. Anybody else want a piece of the action? Tidester.. you're probably loaded? I've read "Rules of the Road"... doesn't say anything about online gambling, so we should be okay on this.
Check Engine performance under all driving conditions
Verify steering wheel is centered and free from vibration
Check for abnormal noise/vibration, wind noise
Check cruise control operation
etc, etc.
I'm guessing it would be pretty hard to do all that in under 10 miles.
Salesman speak. Be a man and admit you posted an incorrect statement. (New Hondas are REQUIRED to have at least ten miles on them)
I know last summer one of our technicians was taken to task for not driving the PDI cars far enough.
In the checklist someone else posted, since the cars usually come off the trucks with around 3-7 miles on them don't you think it would be necessary to drive at least a few more miles to make sure nothing was amiss?
You have to be careful that you reward them wit more profit... they may certainly try to add back some more profit into the deal by switching you into a '07 model. You did not specify the differences in the incentives between your '06 purchase and the current '07 deals, thus it is difficult to infer what is "fair"
Smart money would be with you. it sounds like one of those "things everyone knows is true" but nowhere is there any documentation to support it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Besides, do you really think Isell would just tee that one up knowing everyone would go running for the Big Bertha???
Remember that investments entail some risk. The more of a return you are getting the freater the likelihood that you will lose some or all of your investment. Any good investor knows this.
Just because you buy a trade in for $X and put in $Y getting it ready for sale does not mean that you will get $X+Y or more out of it when you sell it. Nor does it mean you have the right to get money out of the deal.
I have had investments that have lost money and I don't go around crying about it neither should car dealers. No one ever said you have a right to earn a profit.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think our rules about solicitation would cover that one!
tidester, host
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If the dealership can show me they put $1,200 in reconditioning on the vehicle, I may up my price about $400(the true cost to dealership)as long as market and vehicle condition justify the increase.
But, I agree with snake on this...just because you invest a certain amount in a vehicle... doesn't mean you are owed, or guaranteed, a certain return.
As an alternative, you could ask the dealer to check for another left-over 2006 somewhere else. Try to do an exchange. Negotiate about the transport charges.
Good luck!
I still have a hard time thinking of a car purchase as an investment but I guess that just shows I don't have an MBA.
tidester, host
*Collectibles excluded
In order for the dealership to -- as an investment -- make a profit from the sale of a vehicle, he has to establish that a car has these different rates and has to set the expectation as such.
In a real investment market, there is no such thing. Buying and selling is done strictly by supply and demand moving the prices higher or lower. There is no rate set by a particular type of investor to get him/her a discount of the purchase price.
I suppose one could treat the difference like a transaction cost, but unlike buying/selling stocks or even a home, the transaction cost for going through a dealer is not only exhorbitant in comparison with the price of the vehicle, it is inconsistent and is in no way an actual requirement (i.e. there are pleny of legal alternatives for selling your car without loosing that extra amount).
Also, in going through a dealership it differs from an investment in that the dealership acts as a middleman -- something close to what an importer/exporter does. So the actual transaction does not occur with the final buyer directly. In fact, the risk that the dealership takes is to calculate what it would take to sell your vehicle to someone else and ensure that he/she makes a profit. For the dealer it only acts as an investment if he/she resells the vehicle. Buying it outright from you does nothing to improve his/her bottom line.
Do you drive to work? Do you drive to the store to get groceries? If so try doing those without your car for a while and tell me its not an investment.
But in this case its a dealer buying a car for resale. Thats a bit different than you or me buying a daily drive.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Actually it is as most times the cost of not having one is far greater than the cost of one. Don't think about how much you will lose when you sell the car but how much more you would spend not having one. Would you really want to spend cab fare every time you commute? Or would you be willing to take a cut in pay to be able to walk to work?
Yes a car is an investment simply because it does allow you to either maximize income (by being able to travel to a better paying job) and/or minimize expenses (by not paying cab fare). Just try doing your daily routine for a week without using your car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The problem with autosales is not just about risk, it is also about costs as well as other products and services sold at dealerships. It is easy to answer what the return on 20k one should expect in a year even if it is risk adjusted. The true profit (after all expenses) on a 20k vehicle should be around 1-2% given that you should be able to sell 5-10 cars with that 20k during the course of the year... if your stock is managed right.
What is harder to do is to figure out the true expense level and then proportion it to the volume of sales. Another interesting point is that the new vehicle volumes have been steadily sliding at many domestic dealerships and this is as problematic as the overproduction by the manufacturers. Fewer newer car sales will mean fewer units in the used supply, less service, less profit from financing in the longer term?
Curious as to what most dealerships would say, to a potential buyer, about a lemon bought back from customer.billonthelake's dealership seems reputable/honest in that they agreed to take this VW lemon back.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
A new car can have severl different things wrong with it that can be fixed. In the mind of the owner, they will never have confidence in that car. The new owner will probably never have a problem.
Except, it's a Volkswagen. I can't think of many cars that are more troublesome.
However, a true investment stands on its own feet. In other words, if I'm already retired and not working or have no practical use for a car it is not an investment. I don't buy the car to sell it at a profit later (what almost all investments such as stocks, bonds, real-estate, etc provide).
Furthermore, I could just as easily get replacements for the car that would be considerably cheaper (i.e. taking public transportation, cycling, etc) especially when you factor in the cost of insurance, gasoline, maintenance, parking, tolls and repairs, etc.
Again it varies on the person's situation -- but that is really what distinguishes a vehicle purchase from a true investment. I can be Joe Blow with $1, or $1B and if I buy stock "X" and sell it for "X+1", I've made money and everybody that has done the same thing with that stock has made that same money.
A vehicle, at best, can enable you to make money off of other sources (i.e. job as you stated). However, it is guaranteed to loose money, and you absolutely NEED to look at how much you loose when you sell the car! That is the true cost of having the vehicle over the period that you own it (i.e. $40K new, after 6 years sell for $10K = $30K over 6 years; that is equal to $5K/year cost of owning aside from gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs, and parking, tolls, etc.).
Additionally, if you aren't making any other investments (i.e. you loose your job, etc.), unlike a house or another type of asset, it is impossible to unload it at a profit. At best, you can unload it to cover more than what you owe on the payments, but the money you make will not be enough to either buy more of the same vehicle or one that is valued at a higher amount (because again, a vehicle depreciates rapidly).
But I do understand your point -- it does matter how you look at it. For me personally, a vehicle is the absolute worst investment anybody can make -- but I look at it from a strictly "stand alone" financial perspective -- it is going to loose money no matter what (that doesn't prevent me from gettin a nice vehicle - I just don't look at it with the expectation of it making any money for me; whether I spend $5K or $75K, it will get me to work and back, just how it does it, the comfort level, the associated expenses of doing that, etc. will vary). If I take it in the broader scheme of things in terms of convenience, helping me get to work, etc. then yes it is an investment in that way. But it is difficult to say that in and of itself it makes you wealthier like other investments often do.
Car may be an investment for a dealer (resale) or a trucker/shauffer, where its operation directly generates revenue. Not having a vehicle means no source of revenue. For any other business (vehicles for company officers), it is an business expense, as again - they may get by (perhaps with increased expenses).
The fact that people call some of their expenses "investments" does not change anything. It only makes them feel better and justify particular expense, as perhaps saving money (reducing other expenses), longer lasting, etc. Just because something lasts long and costs a lot it does not become an investment.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
So you're telling me you would buy a vehicle knowing it had been brought back to the dealership, on 3 separate occasions, within 4 weeks of ownership? As far as new car lemon cases I have heard much worse, this particular case not as sour as some I have read, but still makes the mouth pucker.
I would think most people wouldn't touch a similar vehicle with a 10 foot pole. I sure wouldn't... and I have a genius I.Q. :sick:
A month later, the radio quits working and it, too is replaced under warranty. Next month, a power window switch breaks.
Three items totally seperate from each other.
Does this make a car a "lemon" or were these strange incidents?
Of course, the owner would be quick to label the car as a "lemon".
Yeah, it does make our mouths pucker but I would just call this strange bad luck.
The chances of something else breaking would be the same as any other car..
1) extend the bumper-tobumper warranty for 1,000 miles
2) ask for some free oil changes/tire rotations
3) give you a $100 or $200 off the deal
I totally agree with this statement in terms of what to ask for. It gives the dealer a chance to redeem him/herself among other things. However, if you're the one that discovered the difference in mileage, then it is very likely that the dealer was lying to you and not making a "mistake".
More often than not, they are trying to find what matches most closely to what you ask for and bet on the fact that items that don't match exactly are things that you won't notice or take the trouble to complain about.
Dealerships count on the customer to be "lazy" like that. Realistically, 600 miles isn't going to do anything to your car. However, the principle of the matter is that they are trying to deliver something to you that is different than what they said they would give you. They were not upfront about the difference(s) with you and chances are that they will take other occasions to do the same.
Ask for the above 3 things outright and be firm, but not mean or excited. If not, just say that you're sorry that they can't do it and ask for your deposit and old car back. Chances are that if you go to another dealer, you can pretty much do the deal that you want and they may end up bringing that exact same vehicle over anyway. Making the effort to actually get your deposit back, take your car out of the lot and leave is what they're betting you won't do. But by doing it, they'll be taking you more seriously. My guess is that after you take the deposit back and get in your old car (or call for a tow), that you'll have your salesperson running out after you saying that they can "arrange" for something to happen. They know that once you leave the lot, that it is pretty much over.
I don't know... I think if one were to study long term reliability on a case by case basis, these so called lemon cars would continue to show higher than average problems. A lemon in my book is a car that shows problem after problem afer problem... or a reoccuring problem that cannot be fixed.
So in saying you don't believe in "lemons"... are you saying you don't believe in "lemon laws"?
No, I don't think several problems in a row would be any indicator of problems in the future.
Let me give another example...last year we sold a car that was in the shop less than 200 miles after delivery with an odd engine vibration. We figured out the problem but couldn't resolve it...the factory guys came in and had the same results. So they decided to get the customer a new car. We kept the buyback and the mfg put in a new engine. I sold the car to one of my friends at a huge discount over a new or used similar car....He has just under 10K now and not a single problem....of course if it was a Jag with an electrical buyback problem there is no price including free that would be cheap enough.... :P
OTOH, I have the inside infomation that would put me at ease with the purcahse... most consumers don't have this info and if they are buying a lemon law car they should do alot of homework before the purchase.