the most frustrating part is that they have done no research, but they won't believe a word i say, whether im right, wrong, or indifferent. now i knew my product (i sold nissans, and i love nissans) and we would have product knowledge tests on slow nights which i would always ace. but most people who walk through that door hate you without ever knowing you, and thats what pushed me away from sales. i hated that people disliked me before they even knew me, because i am the "evil salesperson". there is nothing a salesperson can do or say that forces anyone to buy a car, ever. yet people buy, and if they aren't happy, whether there were any shady dealings or not, its the salesperson and the dealers fault.
like i said before, consumers have to take responsibility for their own actions. if they buy a car for $3000 over MSRP, all the goop and wax and pinstriping - they have no one to blame but themselves for not saying NO or doing research. simple as that. whether i agree with selling all that crap is a different story. but a business is there to make money...
Actually all of those statements were more in realtion to people looking at used cars.
I don't care if you have driven a dozen used cars of the same model every used car is a littld different. To start negotation before you even open the door on a used car is premature.
You should at least drive it around the parking lot.
I think we are in basic agreement! The more used the car is the less reason there is to start with price because as the cars become "more used" their variability in condition increases. On the flip side, there is almost no difference between new cars, they should be all the same... if they are of good/same quality?
i hated that people disliked me before they even knew me, because i am the "evil salesperson".
Make that an “evil car salesperson”. I don’t hear now nor have I ever heard people complain about the evil/sleazy refrigerator salesperson.
It’s unfortunate that the car sales people today have to live with the stigma that your predecessors created. I for one believe there are far more good car salespeople today than existed years ago but the stigma is still there as evidenced by you getting out of the biz.
I’m sure you’ll agree that your ex-profession has only itself to blame for where they are today. It’s going to be a long road to hoe before car buyers start to trust what a car salesperson tells them.
whether i agree with selling all that crap is a different story.
I gather from that tone you didn’t like it either. It sounds like you weren’t a good fit for the car biz which is unfortunate because from what I have heard you say now and in the past, you are the type of person that the car biz needs.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I have been considering a Civic or CR-V, and have been comparing them to other makes. I am frustrated that Honda provides fewer standard features then the competition. In some cases, Honda expects me to buy a moonroof in order to get other features found standard on the competition.
For example: The 2007 Hyundai Elantra SE has four-wheel disc brakes, premium wheels, and 6 audio speakers, all for a thousand less than the 2007 Civic LX which uses rear-drums, hubcaps, and only has four speakers. I don't want the wasteful expense of the Civic EX's moonroof in order to get 4-wheel discs, nice wheels, and 6 speakers.
Also, the Toyota RAV4 base model includes 6 speakers and rear-privacy glass - items not even offered on Honda CR-V LX. Again, I don’t want to pay for a useless moonroof on the CR-V EX just so I can have some “should be standard” items.
Besides the added expense, a moonroof is practically useless to us here in the Midwest, and they also cut down on precious headroom.
I am also disappointed that neither the CR-V LX or EX have a center console. Why do I have to pay for leather (EX-L) to have a nice place to store my stuff? makes no sense.
Ha. My husband keeps cracking jokes at me for being on this site and the car sites. He can't grasp my desire not to be taken advantage of and not to over pay for a car over the frustration and stress that I've experienced so far.
Ah, my Hubby, he's a good man, but knows jacks**t about cars.
I'm not having a lot of luck going the email route. There's a bit of initial correspondence and then just this morning I'm told, "All bottom line negotiations need to be done in person".
My reply was "I'm disappointed to hear that Central Avenue Chrysler does not want to accomodate prospective customers with this time saving method of negotiation.
I would like to acquire a vehicle from you however, time is not a luxury which I enjoy. Should you decide otherwise, then I will be more than happy to keep our communication lines open.
Aggravated not because my offer wasn't accepted but because he made me burn my entire lunch hour (and then some) to basically ridicule me.
If you can't do it, just say "Nope, can't be done". Don't go thru all the computer tapping into and my screen will show you bullcrap that I ultimately don't care about....
As you can see, I'm still a bit disturbed by the experience.
thank you for the kind words. the stereotype set forth by my predecessors was the worst part. i genuinely love cars and spend a lot of time reading about upcoming models, news, etc in the automotive industry. less now though than i used to when actually selling them.
i genuinely cared about getting my customer into the right car, even if it meant less money for me. our dealership was a good place to work, and a good place to buy a car. sure, we still had people who came in very confrontational and we'd show them the door. yes, there was negotiations on cars...we didn't just hand everything away...but our pricing would start pretty low. our dealership didnt pre-apply all our cars with pinstripes or anything of that nature, though we did offer them to our customers. i do genuinely think an extended warranty is something to be seriously considered (a mfgr one of course), but some of the other stuff was pointless to me. we did try to push simoniz, and i think it cost us $100 to apply (labor and materials) and we'd maybe charge $300 or so...not $999 or anything outrageous...
in the end, there was a huge ownership/buyer rift, sending the pending buyer elsewhere, bringing in all new management, and the realization that sales was not a career for me, that sent me packing. i loved the people i worked with while i was there though, and enjoyed most days (especially after i finagled a normal-ish schedule as the "internet manager").
and isell, i do miss it sometimes...its always a great feeling when you know you've helped someone buy their first car, or a birthday present for their daughter, or they are genuinely happy with their purchase...it makes you feel good
i guess i just wish consumers would remember that salespeople are human too, and while some would defy that logic, most of them try to do whats best as often as they can. when going to buy a car, be polite, be honest, be civil, and be firm. no need to yell, scream, accuse...and if you feel uncomfortable, use the tool that my manager told me was the ultimate for negotiations for the consumer...your feet.
mara....I'm with you....if a dealer can't do the deal, it's a simple enough just to say.."we can't do the deal". There's absolutely no need to have them berate anyone.
So, where are you on your deal(s)? Is it a Mountaineer, or a Pacifica?
My guess it is also a gender issue - some guys have no problem in negotiating deals with other men, yet when a woman comes around, they assume she will be a laydown (isn't her constitutional duty? ). So when she turns uout to know more, they don't really know what to do and areundable to turn off their usual "lady talk" act ending up aggravating her even more. On the flip side, having to put up with that kind of crap, the informed ladies may sometimes get upset too easy, as they simply have enough of it, which of course reinforces stereotypes with "you can't deal with her" and the circle is closed.
Mara - do not get upset, even if you think you are "entitled to". It only makes things worse, mostly for you. Once emotional, you may be even more susceptible to be taken advantage. So, keep doing what you do with exception of leaving emotions at bay. Don't take those insults personally - I know it may be hard, but it's the only way. Treat them as a part of the process to weed out "bad guys".
well, I researched both... I was fine getting either one as long as the payments were low enough... Today, is a chrysler dealer negotiation day. The Mercury guy isn't answering my emails.
I didn't get mad in the showroom. I had a very non-chalant attitude that basically said, "ok, se la vie".
I got pissed off when I got back to my office... That's when all the curse words started coming out and that's when I got back on the computer to check to see if maybe I did something wrong... I mean, for him to look at me like I had 4 heads and a nipple on each must mean that I screwd up. But, no. It wasn't that. Anyhow, I think that by me showing him my piece of papers which included my numbers, it just gave him more ammunition to interrogate me.
Today I've been practicing solid numbers and so far, it's not blowing up in my face... Its just much easier to do this email style... Face to face gives them the opportunity to see you sweat even when you try your hardest not to.
I know what you mean. I have a disadvantage myself - as an immigrant, even if I talk fluent English, they still sometimes assume I stepped off the boat yesterday. I usually make some effort to prevent it by my "presentation" and most get the message quickly (I answer their qualifying questions in a way to send a message that I know how this stuff works). A few years ago I was still quite weary of going to dealerships so I sent my Subaru inquiries online followed phone conversations with three dealers. Narrowed to two, got the deal on Saturday, week before I anticipated the purchase (the deal was so good, I knew it was time to buy).
I've been in the same boat coming off The Boat too I found out early on that if you had accented speech a lot of people (maybe unintentionally) would assume you don't know what you're talking about. I'll never forget a Hyundai salesman whom I warned that I worked in finance; he still came up with a ridiculous number and when I questioned him what the APR was, he had nothing to say but "I don't know." :surprise:
mara....I know some dealerships don't think you're a serious buyer until you walk into their showroom doors. Most have internet depts these days, but few actually transact their sales that way.
Some may, most don't....at least not around me. They only use the internet to capture "leads". The "heavy work" of negotiations doesn't get done until they get you into the showroom.
I'm not having a lot of luck going the email route. There's a bit of initial correspondence and then just this morning I'm told, "All bottom line negotiations need to be done in person".
It sounds like the dealers in your area don’t like the internet route. So you’ll have to go to plan ‘B’, the old fashioned face to face method. Don’t despair, once you have a doable price and stay calm a deal can be made without spending a lot of time. I’m sure everyone here is tired of me saying 30 minutes but that’s what works for me because after that I feel your chance of being bumped goes up exponentially. Play in your court not theirs; you’ll like the process a lot better that way.
If you can’t make a deal for a given car after talking to several dealers, this tells me that regardless of your research your market area is different than what your research says. All you can do then is up your offer, if you still want that car, or fall in love with something else that you can get for your price. Only you can determine how much you want to spend and how much time you want to spend finding what’s right for you.
Like me and others have said before, car buying isn’t difficult. Only the uninformed make it that way. Plus, you’re the boss (I always liked that part) because it’s your money and any reasonable dealer knows that.
Ah, my Hubby, he's a good man, but knows jacks**t about cars.
Sounds like you know this guy pretty well; therefore, he must be kept out of this.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If so it's another layer of difficulty. Just a word of caution - you may get great price but can easily mess at F&I when leasing. Buy lease rates (call it "dealer's invoice on lease") are not published and fees are often numerous (acquisition, facilitation, etc.) and convoluted (rolled into payment). Even taxes vary from state to state, and I don't mean rates, I mean the way they are assessed!.
Even small downpayments (which as you know are discouraged as they provide little benefit to the lessee, but plenty to the lessor) can influence payments. So - before you go there and talk price, familiarize yourself with lease structuring and pricing. There may be Edmunds forums for particular models - unfortunately even different trims of the same model may have significantly different rates and residuals. You can try leasecompare.com (which gives non-subsidized bank offers).
It is not so simple to evaluate lease payment unless you have a crystal clear understanding how it works and what the full terms are (allowed mileage, length, rate, fees, etc.). $299/month can mean a lot of things, from fantastic to a terrible ripoff.
Honda tries to keep things simple and they try(and succeed) to please the masses.
This is not true! All automakers are in business to make as much money as they can. As such, they bundle things in such a way to make the most profit. They do research on what is useful and bundle it with the most useless overpriced stuff!
If you want something special, like a sunroof, you have to buy leather and other stuff you do not want. However, I have to say that Toyota is one of the worst when it comes to safety features like side air bags/curtains. For a while they would only include those features on the limited... :mad:
Most folks have no idea what it is like to be an immigrant. I have helped a lot of my very smart immigrant friends with negotiations and not because they are not smart or capable but because the prejudice they encounter is enormous. Sometimes folks assume one is dumb and off the boat because their name is bit foreign. These are all good reasons not to make an appearance at a dealership unless to pay, sign and drive off!
Most folks have no idea what it is like to be an immigrant.
I think that is a bit overstated. The U.S. is, in fact, a nation of immigrants (think Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty) and I wouldn't be surprised if first, second and third generation immigrants constitute a majority of the population.
As a native born American buying cars at dealers where almost all of the sales people are foreign born, I have some idea what it feels like to be an immigrant.
I think that is a bit overstated. The U.S. is, in fact, a nation of immigrants (think Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty) and I wouldn't be surprised if first, second and third generation immigrants constitute a majority of the population.
I really don't think it is overstated at all. While many in the US are recent immigrants, especially here in Southern California, most are not. Most kids born here, to immigrant parents, are pretty much Americanized and don't really face the same problems that their parents did.
While I was recently shopping for a new car, I was initially determined to try the internet car buying method. Unfortunately, where I live, it seemed none of the dealers wanted to play along, even those with "internet departments" advertising that you could do every aspect of the deal (short of signing and driving) online. It didn't help that I had a trade-in.
Eventually, I went down to the local (3 miles away) Honda dealership armed with a CarMax appraisal and the information I got from this website. Luckily, even though I had only been there once and swore never to return (the sales manager said seriosuly, with a straight face that God wanted me to buy his car!!!), this time it was a very pleasant experience. I was treaded well for being a 25 year old who looks 19- they were friendly, they beat my appraisal giving me lots o' *postive* equity, and quickly agreed to under invoice on the new Honda (before the equity), plus cut the doc fee in half. The finance guy wasn't even aggressive about a warranty and didn't even try to touch my credit union's financing.
It just totally changed my opinion about how hard it is to buy a car using the "traditional method."
Well, we pay a lot of money for these worthless leads.
I'll provide you with worthless leads for less than you are paying at the moment.
Seriously though, maybe it's time to have a chat with the supplier of your leads with a view to either not taking their leads any more or only paying for the leads that result in a sale. Of course you should expect to pay more for a lead that results in a sale than for a lead of unknown quality.
its funny, because in most countries, almost everything is negotiated...immigrants should be great at it!
that being said, my dad came here when he was 27 from greece, with no knowledge of the english language, and a few bucks in his pocket. he would work 2-3 jobs at a time to make a life for my mom and myself (though i was really young at the time) and worked really hard by being a stingy negotiator and taking advantage of what this country has to offer. now, 27 years later, he's building his million dollar dream home (by hand, he's a contractor) and he's worked hard to earn what he has. i was born here, but i know what it has been like for him, and i don't take anything for granted. he's taught my sisters and i some very important lessons.
when i was selling cars, he came to buy a truck from me, and he was probably one of my toughest customers. it was christmas eve eve, and my manager was coming back from the little market across the way with his turkey for xmas dinner, and my dad wanted the turkey thrown into the deal too!
anyways, to get to my point, i think to generalize that immigrants are mistreated by all salespeople is extreme. there are some salespeople, as well as regular bankers, lawyers, etc who have prejudices...its unfortunate, however, that its like that...because few of us are really Native to this land...most of our families came from somewhere else at some point or another...
Can't comment on any predjudices at dealerships. What I do know, the color of anyone's money is the same, regardless of race, creed, gender, nationality. It's the great equalizer.
it was christmas eve eve, and my manager was coming back from the little market across the way with his turkey for xmas dinner, and my dad wanted the turkey thrown into the deal too!
Now THAT's a negotiator. I'd like to meet Father thenebean.
Bot of my parents were off the boat from Italy. They instilled a different work ethic than those around us. They always felt that, although they became U.S. Citizens, that all of us had to work twice as hard to achieve anything.
My Father negotiated everything, which was his custom. He'd try to negotiate with the local butcher on the price of meat. While embarrassing for me when younger, it did teach me that every penny earned was precious. And, that all work was good work.
While my parents both became successful because of their work attitude, my Mother still pinches pennies. She can whip up a mean "bragiole" (made with cheap flank steak) that would put any Italian restaurant to shame.
The one thing they both had a soft spot for was their cars (I inherited that trait). While we had junkers when I was growing up, once their financial situation improved (as luck would have it, after all of us kids were grown, educated, and out of the house), it was nothing but Lincolns and Cadillacs for their rides. They both thought that American cars were the best in the world (even though they grew up around Fiats, Alfas, Mazeratis, Lambos, and Ferraris). My late Father thought that Italian cars were junk (taken from his personal experience) compared to American iron.
First time I bought a Honda, my Father wouldn't talk to me for a week.
It's not about the color of the money, it's about assumtpion that if you are (fill the blank), you'll likely be stupid (or more correctly - uninformed) and laydown more of it.
That assumption is often reinforced by anectotal evidence. It happened to me - my first car was worth about $2500 retail and I bought it for $4500 and it still needed new brake cylinders and new muffler. I was two month in the country, got tired of borrowing my bosses car, had some money in my pocket, and decided to shop for it on my own. It was this VW, which in Europe, especially Eastern, had reputation of being durable and very good quality (if you can really believe it), never mind this one was made in Brasil. You do the math.
You see in a city of communist Poland, where I lived most of my young life, there was no such thing as price negotiation. Retail was not a business - it was considere "public service" and shelves were mostly empty. Before I came here I had just 8 years of free market education back in my country (since collapse of the system), so what did I know about price negotiation? Zip, nothing, nada. If I were from a village - slightly different story - those guys were accustomed to trading stuff, but living in a city - all I knew then was "you are lucky if we sell it to you".
i think to generalize that immigrants are mistreated by all salespeople is extreme. there are some salespeople, as well as regular bankers, lawyers, etc who have prejudices...
There is one dealership group in the Chicago area that advertises that they have staff that speak 15 different languages.
It is not just about race, color, sex, etc. It is the attitude that all people/countries (not just in the US) have that if you cannot even speak the language right, you cannot be that smart. :surprise: It is not based on the "look", just on sound! Most people who have not LIVED outside of their native countries have a very difficult time understanding these issues.
Example: My spouse is pretty savvy, has plenty of education and is also more foreign than myself but has a detectable accent: I have to make all the phone calls for reservations, complaints, appointments, everything... Why? The treatement is that different! :lemon:
I have even made calls for my more foreign friends/family pretending to be them (while they stand right there) because I could get the business to budge but they could not? Any one who is worldly enough has probably seen a smart foreigner being abused by a nasty native...
The biggest irony: the other ("older") immigrants are the WORST!
dino.....I'm not an immigrant, so I can't begin to understand what an immigrant faces in this country. I had a "taste" of that mentality, based on what my parents went through when I was young. For the first few yeas of our lives, we spoke Italian at home, and English outside the home.
Both of my parents had thick accents that, over time dissipated, somewhat. But, it was still noticeable. Were they treated differently? Probably. I was too young to notice, though. But, they refused to use that as a crutch. And instilled that in their offspring.
Getting on my soapbox for a moment, but I think many people in our country look for reasons to cry "foul", because of their differences compared to the mainstream, instead of looking at all the positives their culture brings to a country that's made up of many, many cultures, accents, colors, creeds. Regardless, we all have differences.
I don't know what it's like being an immigrant of Polish descent, African decent, Japanese descent, Mexican descent, Cuban descent....or any other descent.
What I do know, if I walk into any car dealership, and I don't like the way I'm treated, for any reason, they don't get my money. Simple as that. I won't lodge any complaint. I'll just withold doing business with them.
I was in Japan for a while for work related activities. They don't negotiate on a car. You make an appointment. You get a thorough product presentation. You pay the price they ask. You take the car home. Different cultures dictate different way of doing business. You adapt.
Side note....this post is in no way meant to demean anyone, of any nationality.
The biggest irony: the other ("older") immigrants are the WORST!
There can be something in it. All I could hear was "stay clear from other Poles and you'll be allright". Probably vastly exaggerated, but there is a component of "I got here first and I had it tough, so now it's your turn".
But I also agree with Graphic that many people may also use it as an excuse - rather than learn how things work and play along they refuse it and choose to complain that someone did not learn their language or did not play by their rules. I see that all the time, too.
I don't actually resent the first dealer for selling me overpriced car that was less than perfect. If I were smarter then, I would have taken somebody along with me and try to learn how the things worked. It really took another immigrant (from Germany) to show me how business of buying cars could be conducted even when you are not speaking perfect language.
All I tried to say is I have been there - I was one of those people afraid of showing up at a dealership. I lacked confidence, I used to be mortified every time I had to pick up the phone. I learned to use internet tool to my advantage. Today I still use the internet, but am not afraid of calling anyone. I also learned how to send right signals to the salespeople so I don't get treated as novice. And it works, most of the time, anyway.
Honda tries to bundle the most popular accessories in their various models. ALL Hondas have side and side curtain airbags.
Of course, once in a blue moon, I'll get someone who wants leather and no sunroof or something else oddball, but not often.
Honda has started to deviate a bit in this by offering two different color interiors in some models. I wish they wouldn't do this because, given a choice, some people will take forever to decide and then they will pick the one combination I don't have.
I agree about Toyota. They have a ton of oddball combinations.
I had to buy a car over the weekend (deer collision), so went to dealer and negotiated a reasonable deal on a Toyota FJ Cruiser, including my damaged tradein. The invoice was for a vehicle that had at most 95 miles on it.
The dealer had to retrieve/buy the car from a partner dealership. When the car arrived, they found it had over 600 miles on the odometer! Apparently the source dealer forgot to tell them about this before the trade.
They told me they check it out at their garage and it looks OK. However, I am very leery of such high mileage - I had really been looking forward to my first "new" car. Plus, it just seems odd that a popular model like this would have been on the lot long enough to accumlate such mileage.
I asked if they could make good on the deal by finding an equivalent vehicle with the promised mileage. They said there were no others.
I asked if they would be willing to compromise by coming down on the price at all or throwing in a few freebies. They said no.
Is 600+ miles normal for a "new" car off a lot?
What recourse do I have? I put down a $1000 deposit, plus let them take my used car already.
This is in Concord NH, Grappone Toyota. They seem to be reasonable folks, but this is my first experience so I don't know what to expect.
Any advice or suggestions are really appreciated - especially within the next few hours since I have to decide today.
Comments
like i said before, consumers have to take responsibility for their own actions. if they buy a car for $3000 over MSRP, all the goop and wax and pinstriping - they have no one to blame but themselves for not saying NO or doing research. simple as that. whether i agree with selling all that crap is a different story. but a business is there to make money...
anyways, like usual, my two cents...
-thene
I don't care if you have driven a dozen used cars of the same model every used car is a littld different. To start negotation before you even open the door on a used car is premature.
You should at least drive it around the parking lot.
Make that an “evil car salesperson”. I don’t hear now nor have I ever heard people complain about the evil/sleazy refrigerator salesperson.
It’s unfortunate that the car sales people today have to live with the stigma that your predecessors created. I for one believe there are far more good car salespeople today than existed years ago but the stigma is still there as evidenced by you getting out of the biz.
I’m sure you’ll agree that your ex-profession has only itself to blame for where they are today. It’s going to be a long road to hoe before car buyers start to trust what a car salesperson tells them.
whether i agree with selling all that crap is a different story.
I gather from that tone you didn’t like it either. It sounds like you weren’t a good fit for the car biz which is unfortunate because from what I have heard you say now and in the past, you are the type of person that the car biz needs.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I am frustrated that Honda provides fewer standard features then the competition.
In some cases, Honda expects me to buy a moonroof in order to get other features found standard on the competition.
For example: The 2007 Hyundai Elantra SE has four-wheel disc brakes, premium wheels, and 6 audio speakers, all for a thousand less than the 2007 Civic LX which uses rear-drums, hubcaps, and only has four speakers. I don't want the wasteful expense of the Civic EX's moonroof in order to get 4-wheel discs, nice wheels, and 6 speakers.
Also, the Toyota RAV4 base model includes 6 speakers and rear-privacy glass - items not even offered on Honda CR-V LX. Again, I don’t want to pay for a useless moonroof on the CR-V EX just so I can have some “should be standard” items.
Besides the added expense, a moonroof is practically useless to us here in the Midwest, and they also cut down on precious headroom.
I am also disappointed that neither the CR-V LX or EX have a center console. Why do I have to pay for leather (EX-L) to have a nice place to store my stuff? makes no sense.
As I read these posts, I can never believe the pain some people will put themselves through over "saving" a few almighty dollars.
And I can't believe some of the advise given by the "experts" in these forums. These people sure know it all!
For crying out loud....life is short!
You have to remember, what is important to you is of little if any importance to others.
Honda tries to keep things simple and they try(and succeed) to please the masses.
|Go ahead and buy that Huyndai and see how much you have "saved" down the road when you try to sell it.
NO - Please, not the Hyundai vs Honda debate again!!!
Ah, my Hubby, he's a good man, but knows jacks**t about cars.
I'm not having a lot of luck going the email route. There's a bit of initial correspondence and then just this morning I'm told, "All bottom line negotiations need to be done in person".
My reply was "I'm disappointed to hear that Central Avenue Chrysler does not want to accomodate prospective customers with this time saving method of negotiation.
I would like to acquire a vehicle from you however, time is not a luxury which I enjoy. Should you decide otherwise, then I will be more than happy to keep our communication lines open.
With much appreciation for your time thus far"
If you can't do it, just say "Nope, can't be done". Don't go thru all the computer tapping into and my screen will show you bullcrap that I ultimately don't care about....
As you can see, I'm still a bit disturbed by the experience.
thank you for the kind words. the stereotype set forth by my predecessors was the worst part. i genuinely love cars and spend a lot of time reading about upcoming models, news, etc in the automotive industry. less now though than i used to when actually selling them.
i genuinely cared about getting my customer into the right car, even if it meant less money for me. our dealership was a good place to work, and a good place to buy a car. sure, we still had people who came in very confrontational and we'd show them the door. yes, there was negotiations on cars...we didn't just hand everything away...but our pricing would start pretty low. our dealership didnt pre-apply all our cars with pinstripes or anything of that nature, though we did offer them to our customers. i do genuinely think an extended warranty is something to be seriously considered (a mfgr one of course), but some of the other stuff was pointless to me. we did try to push simoniz, and i think it cost us $100 to apply (labor and materials) and we'd maybe charge $300 or so...not $999 or anything outrageous...
in the end, there was a huge ownership/buyer rift, sending the pending buyer elsewhere, bringing in all new management, and the realization that sales was not a career for me, that sent me packing. i loved the people i worked with while i was there though, and enjoyed most days (especially after i finagled a normal-ish schedule as the "internet manager").
and isell, i do miss it sometimes...its always a great feeling when you know you've helped someone buy their first car, or a birthday present for their daughter, or they are genuinely happy with their purchase...it makes you feel good
i guess i just wish consumers would remember that salespeople are human too, and while some would defy that logic, most of them try to do whats best as often as they can. when going to buy a car, be polite, be honest, be civil, and be firm. no need to yell, scream, accuse...and if you feel uncomfortable, use the tool that my manager told me was the ultimate for negotiations for the consumer...your feet.
sorry to babble,
-thene
So, where are you on your deal(s)? Is it a Mountaineer, or a Pacifica?
He must think we are geeks or something...or else he is envious he is not one of the "cool kids"
Can you tell us exactly what cars you are looking at, so some of the experts here can help you figure out a price?
Mara - do not get upset, even if you think you are "entitled to". It only makes things worse, mostly for you. Once emotional, you may be even more susceptible to be taken advantage. So, keep doing what you do with exception of leaving emotions at bay. Don't take those insults personally - I know it may be hard, but it's the only way. Treat them as a part of the process to weed out "bad guys".
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I got pissed off when I got back to my office... That's when all the curse words started coming out and that's when I got back on the computer to check to see if maybe I did something wrong... I mean, for him to look at me like I had 4 heads and a nipple on each must mean that I screwd up. But, no. It wasn't that. Anyhow, I think that by me showing him my piece of papers which included my numbers, it just gave him more ammunition to interrogate me.
Today I've been practicing solid numbers and so far, it's not blowing up in my face... Its just much easier to do this email style... Face to face gives them the opportunity to see you sweat even when you try your hardest not to.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I found out early on that if you had accented speech a lot of people (maybe unintentionally) would assume you don't know what you're talking about.
I'll never forget a Hyundai salesman whom I warned that I worked in finance; he still came up with a ridiculous number and when I questioned him what the APR was, he had nothing to say but "I don't know." :surprise:
Some may, most don't....at least not around me. They only use the internet to capture "leads". The "heavy work" of negotiations doesn't get done until they get you into the showroom.
Good luck with your Chrysler shopping today.
It sounds like the dealers in your area don’t like the internet route. So you’ll have to go to plan ‘B’, the old fashioned face to face method. Don’t despair, once you have a doable price and stay calm a deal can be made without spending a lot of time. I’m sure everyone here is tired of me saying 30 minutes but that’s what works for me because after that I feel your chance of being bumped goes up exponentially. Play in your court not theirs; you’ll like the process a lot better that way.
If you can’t make a deal for a given car after talking to several dealers, this tells me that regardless of your research your market area is different than what your research says. All you can do then is up your offer, if you still want that car, or fall in love with something else that you can get for your price. Only you can determine how much you want to spend and how much time you want to spend finding what’s right for you.
Like me and others have said before, car buying isn’t difficult. Only the uninformed make it that way. Plus, you’re the boss (I always liked that part) because it’s your money and any reasonable dealer knows that.
Ah, my Hubby, he's a good man, but knows jacks**t about cars.
Sounds like you know this guy pretty well; therefore, he must be kept out of this.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
" Ah...oh yeah, I guess I did send that"
" Well, are you in the market for a new Pilot?"
" Ah...well, maybe when my lease is over, or maybe I might want an S-2000 at that time...I don't know..."
"When does your lease end?"
" Oh, in three years, I think"
:mad:
If so it's another layer of difficulty. Just a word of caution - you may get great price but can easily mess at F&I when leasing. Buy lease rates (call it "dealer's invoice on lease") are not published and fees are often numerous (acquisition, facilitation, etc.) and convoluted (rolled into payment). Even taxes vary from state to state, and I don't mean rates, I mean the way they are assessed!.
Even small downpayments (which as you know are discouraged as they provide little benefit to the lessee, but plenty to the lessor) can influence payments. So - before you go there and talk price, familiarize yourself with lease structuring and pricing. There may be Edmunds forums for particular models - unfortunately even different trims of the same model may have significantly different rates and residuals. You can try leasecompare.com (which gives non-subsidized bank offers).
It is not so simple to evaluate lease payment unless you have a crystal clear understanding how it works and what the full terms are (allowed mileage, length, rate, fees, etc.). $299/month can mean a lot of things, from fantastic to a terrible ripoff.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I'd say just good old fashioned curiosity. Maybe hoping the dealership will be giving the vehicle away for next to nothing. Or, maybe just practice.
It seems nobody is in the middle. The leads are either from people who are very serious or total strokes.
The ones without phone numbers are, by far, the worst.
This is not true! All automakers are in business to make as much money as they can. As such, they bundle things in such a way to make the most profit. They do research on what is useful and bundle it with the most useless overpriced stuff!
If you want something special, like a sunroof, you have to buy leather and other stuff you do not want. However, I have to say that Toyota is one of the worst when it comes to safety features like side air bags/curtains. For a while they would only include those features on the limited... :mad:
Token Foreigner.
I think that is a bit overstated. The U.S. is, in fact, a nation of immigrants (think Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty) and I wouldn't be surprised if first, second and third generation immigrants constitute a majority of the population.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I really don't think it is overstated at all. While many in the US are recent immigrants, especially here in Southern California, most are not. Most kids born here, to immigrant parents, are pretty much Americanized and don't really face the same problems that their parents did.
Eventually, I went down to the local (3 miles away) Honda dealership armed with a CarMax appraisal and the information I got from this website. Luckily, even though I had only been there once and swore never to return (the sales manager said seriosuly, with a straight face that God wanted me to buy his car!!!), this time it was a very pleasant experience. I was treaded well for being a 25 year old who looks 19- they were friendly, they beat my appraisal giving me lots o' *postive* equity, and quickly agreed to under invoice on the new Honda (before the equity), plus cut the doc fee in half. The finance guy wasn't even aggressive about a warranty and didn't even try to touch my credit union's financing.
It just totally changed my opinion about how hard it is to buy a car using the "traditional method."
Ok, ..... if you say so but that wasn't a foreign language they were speaking, it originated right here in the USA. It called 'carbizeez'.
I'm surprised you didn't recognize it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The kids may be "Americanized" but they are certainly not oblivious to what it is like to be an immigrant.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'll provide you with worthless leads for less than you are paying at the moment.
Seriously though, maybe it's time to have a chat with the supplier of your leads with a view to either not taking their leads any more or only paying for the leads that result in a sale. Of course you should expect to pay more for a lead that results in a sale than for a lead of unknown quality.
that being said, my dad came here when he was 27 from greece, with no knowledge of the english language, and a few bucks in his pocket. he would work 2-3 jobs at a time to make a life for my mom and myself (though i was really young at the time) and worked really hard by being a stingy negotiator and taking advantage of what this country has to offer. now, 27 years later, he's building his million dollar dream home (by hand, he's a contractor) and he's worked hard to earn what he has. i was born here, but i know what it has been like for him, and i don't take anything for granted. he's taught my sisters and i some very important lessons.
when i was selling cars, he came to buy a truck from me, and he was probably one of my toughest customers. it was christmas eve eve, and my manager was coming back from the little market across the way with his turkey for xmas dinner, and my dad wanted the turkey thrown into the deal too!
anyways, to get to my point, i think to generalize that immigrants are mistreated by all salespeople is extreme. there are some salespeople, as well as regular bankers, lawyers, etc who have prejudices...its unfortunate, however, that its like that...because few of us are really Native to this land...most of our families came from somewhere else at some point or another...
anyways, babbling...
-thene
Correct - bigots work in a variety of professions.
Now THAT's a negotiator. I'd like to meet Father thenebean.
Bot of my parents were off the boat from Italy. They instilled a different work ethic than those around us. They always felt that, although they became U.S. Citizens, that all of us had to work twice as hard to achieve anything.
My Father negotiated everything, which was his custom. He'd try to negotiate with the local butcher on the price of meat. While embarrassing for me when younger, it did teach me that every penny earned was precious. And, that all work was good work.
While my parents both became successful because of their work attitude, my Mother still pinches pennies. She can whip up a mean "bragiole" (made with cheap flank steak) that would put any Italian restaurant to shame.
The one thing they both had a soft spot for was their cars (I inherited that trait). While we had junkers when I was growing up, once their financial situation improved (as luck would have it, after all of us kids were grown, educated, and out of the house), it was nothing but Lincolns and Cadillacs for their rides. They both thought that American cars were the best in the world (even though they grew up around Fiats, Alfas, Mazeratis, Lambos, and Ferraris). My late Father thought that Italian cars were junk (taken from his personal experience) compared to American iron.
First time I bought a Honda, my Father wouldn't talk to me for a week.
That assumption is often reinforced by anectotal evidence. It happened to me - my first car was worth about $2500 retail and I bought it for $4500 and it still needed new brake cylinders and new muffler. I was two month in the country, got tired of borrowing my bosses car, had some money in my pocket, and decided to shop for it on my own. It was this VW, which in Europe, especially Eastern, had reputation of being durable and very good quality (if you can really believe it), never mind this one was made in Brasil. You do the math.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
There is one dealership group in the Chicago area that advertises that they have staff that speak 15 different languages.
It is not just about race, color, sex, etc. It is the attitude that all people/countries (not just in the US) have that if you cannot even speak the language right, you cannot be that smart. :surprise: It is not based on the "look", just on sound! Most people who have not LIVED outside of their native countries have a very difficult time understanding these issues.
Example: My spouse is pretty savvy, has plenty of education and is also more foreign than myself but has a detectable accent: I have to make all the phone calls for reservations, complaints, appointments, everything...
I have even made calls for my more foreign friends/family pretending to be them (while they stand right there) because I could get the business to budge but they could not? Any one who is worldly enough has probably seen a smart foreigner being abused by a nasty native...
The biggest irony: the other ("older") immigrants are the WORST!
Both of my parents had thick accents that, over time dissipated, somewhat. But, it was still noticeable. Were they treated differently? Probably. I was too young to notice, though. But, they refused to use that as a crutch. And instilled that in their offspring.
Getting on my soapbox for a moment, but I think many people in our country look for reasons to cry "foul", because of their differences compared to the mainstream, instead of looking at all the positives their culture brings to a country that's made up of many, many cultures, accents, colors, creeds. Regardless, we all have differences.
I don't know what it's like being an immigrant of Polish descent, African decent, Japanese descent, Mexican descent, Cuban descent....or any other descent.
What I do know, if I walk into any car dealership, and I don't like the way I'm treated, for any reason, they don't get my money. Simple as that. I won't lodge any complaint. I'll just withold doing business with them.
I was in Japan for a while for work related activities. They don't negotiate on a car. You make an appointment. You get a thorough product presentation. You pay the price they ask. You take the car home. Different cultures dictate different way of doing business. You adapt.
Side note....this post is in no way meant to demean anyone, of any nationality.
There can be something in it. All I could hear was "stay clear from other Poles and you'll be allright". Probably vastly exaggerated, but there is a component of "I got here first and I had it tough, so now it's your turn".
But I also agree with Graphic that many people may also use it as an excuse - rather than learn how things work and play along they refuse it and choose to complain that someone did not learn their language or did not play by their rules. I see that all the time, too.
I don't actually resent the first dealer for selling me overpriced car that was less than perfect. If I were smarter then, I would have taken somebody along with me and try to learn how the things worked. It really took another immigrant (from Germany) to show me how business of buying cars could be conducted even when you are not speaking perfect language.
All I tried to say is I have been there - I was one of those people afraid of showing up at a dealership. I lacked confidence, I used to be mortified every time I had to pick up the phone. I learned to use internet tool to my advantage. Today I still use the internet, but am not afraid of calling anyone. I also learned how to send right signals to the salespeople so I don't get treated as novice. And it works, most of the time, anyway.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Honda tries to bundle the most popular accessories in their various models. ALL Hondas have side and side curtain airbags.
Of course, once in a blue moon, I'll get someone who wants leather and no sunroof or something else oddball, but not often.
Honda has started to deviate a bit in this by offering two different color interiors in some models. I wish they wouldn't do this because, given a choice, some people will take forever to decide and then they will pick the one combination I don't have.
I agree about Toyota. They have a ton of oddball combinations.
The dealer had to retrieve/buy the car from a partner dealership. When the car arrived, they found it had over 600 miles on the odometer! Apparently the source dealer forgot to tell them about this before the trade.
They told me they check it out at their garage and it looks OK. However, I am very leery of such high mileage - I had really been looking forward to my first "new" car.
Plus, it just seems odd that a popular model like this would have been on the lot long enough to accumlate such mileage.
I asked if they could make good on the deal by finding an equivalent vehicle with the promised mileage. They said there were no others.
I asked if they would be willing to compromise by coming down on the price at all or throwing in a few freebies.
They said no.
Is 600+ miles normal for a "new" car off a lot?
What recourse do I have? I put down a $1000 deposit, plus
let them take my used car already.
This is in Concord NH, Grappone Toyota.
They seem to be reasonable folks, but this is my first
experience so I don't know what to expect.
Any advice or suggestions are really appreciated - especially within the next few hours since I have to decide today.
THANKS!
Sounds like you have a choice. Either buy the car or get your deposit back.
I hope you get away with your username.