I believe you are misinterpreting what I am trying to convey... or maybe like snake you are a nit picker?
I certainly do not go into a dealership looking for a "fight". I go in to get the car I want at the price I want to pay. If the dealership wants to try to outmaneuver me in getting a higher price, I welcome the challenge. If sales manager thinks he can get more money out of me by keeping me longer... he doesn't know who he is dealing with(an informed buyer), and it may end up costing him more.
As I've posted at least a dozen times before, I enjoy the process of negotiating for a car. So time effeciency and trying to get a deal in 30 minutes isn't a priority with me. If the process of getting my price is moving even to leisurely for me, I will walk in a heartbeat(mine)... or a New York minute, whichever is faster.
I one time followed the salesman to the SM's office, finished the negotiations right there.
Now....that's the way to do it. I agree. Whenever a sales person goes to "the tower" or the SM's desk, I go with him. Wanna do a deal? Let's get it done right now. I'm the final decision maker on my end. I want to talk to the final decision maker on their end.
More than once, a salesperson has beem a little nervous, even surprised, when I got up to go with him for approval on a deal. But, they've never once had the nerve to tell me to go back and sit down at their desk.
I always think of that scene in "Fargo" where the sales man says "let me see what I can do" gets up walks away does nothing and comes back with a different offer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I’m going to let you get away with this once. The next time you put me in the same boat as that guy, I’m going to ask ‘tiedster ‘ or your buddy ‘kirstie’ to tell me where you live, got it! That "nit picker" comment, that's OK.
...As I've posted at least a dozen times before, I enjoy the process of negotiating for a car. So time effeciency and trying to get a deal in 30 minutes isn't a priority with me.
There, you’ve hit on it; you “enjoy the process”. Me and some of the others here don’t, we just want a car when we go to a dealership.
As they say, whatever turns you on but it turns me off.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Great movie....that scene is great, too. I like how William Macey loads up the deal with accessories. The customer balks, lays into Macey, but relents on the deal, anyway.
I'm going to ask 'tiedster' or your buddy 'kirstie' to tell me where you live
LOL. Kirstie would never betray me. Tidester on the other hand... tell him you're joining his fan club(started by his family members), he'll have a "Tidester, My Favorite Edmunds Host" t-shirt sent to your house next day mail... along with any other perks you desire.
In my experience buying cars I tend to stay on the “brief” side of negotiating. Case in point – I recently purchased a new 06 Subaru Outback. I live in a sparsely populated state (New Mexico), with few dealers, so the bobst method won’t work. I emailed an out-of town dealership who is “famous” for discount prices. He emailed me a good price, $400 below invoice, minus rebate. It was a few hundred dollars below Edmund’s TMV. I called my local Subaru dealer, spoke with the same salesman I bought a car from 4 years ago, and told him if he can meet the email quote, I’ll buy the car from him, otherwise, I’m heading off to the “big city”. He said he’ll check with the manager.
I got a call back in 5 minutes agreeing to the deal. I told him I can make in that Friday evening after work (even the “local” dealer is 45 miles away). He didn’t ask for a deposit, credit card, or anything else. That Friday morning the salesman called me to confirm my appointment and gave me the VIN number of the car.
That evening, when I arrived, the car was all prepped and waiting for me in front of the dealership. Doing the paperwork and showing me the car took an hour, and I spent another hour after the sale shooting the bull with the salesman. Also, unlike many complaints posted in this forum, the dealership had NO doc fees. The F&I guy didn’t pull the mop-n-glow or other add-ons. The price quoted was simply the price I paid. No surprises.
Did I get the absolute lowest price? Probably not. Would it have been worth driving over 200 miles, and taking a day off from work going back and forth grinding down the dealerships another $100 or so? Absolutely not. Certainly a fair, stress-free, fast and easy transaction.
I think the tank was about 14-15 gallons. I have a 120 mile/day round trip to work. It worked out to about 22-24 mpg, mostly hwy. With gas prices going crazy, I had to have something more efficient. Honda Civic seemed like my best bet for some type of savings and reliability.
I got the car "new" as a program car with 26,500 miles. Go figure. I kept it nearly five years/150,000 miles. I got regular oil changes, new brakes each year, a couple of sets of tires, and a new battery. The '01 Lumina had power everything, and I never had any trouble with the engine. I sold it for $2,900 (double the best deal the Honda place would give--of course what should I have expected.)
If I didn't have such a long commute, I might have kept it. It ran smoothly, passed any other vehicle (in fact, I got a speeding ticket one month before I sold it), and it would hold tons of stuff in the huge trunk.
I really didn't think I would miss it as much as I do. I see them everywhere, but I know they don't make them anymore .
But that bottom number - it's out there lurking... taunting...
LOL! Yeah...I do think that no matter what number you end up with, there's always the thought that somehow, somewhere there's another number.
Fact is, Subaru came in under invoice...can't really complain about that deal.
Last year, my lawn tractor died....right during the spring....when demand was highest. Tried to negotiate on a new one. Got a little movement, but not much. At the end of the season, I saw ads all over the place with big discounts on my exact same model. "C'est la vie"! I won't lose any sleep over it.
Sometimes you just have to be satisfied that you did due dilligence and be happy with your deal.
Sometimes you just have to be satisfied that you did due dilligence and be happy with your deal.
Yeah, tell me about it.
Off topic but since it’s the weekend, time for a tale.
About five months ago my computer monitor died (it was a little over 3 years old at its demise, shouldn’t have happened but it did). At first I had heart palpitations thinking it was the computer itself (it was only a little over 2 years old at the time) but thankfully I determined it was in fact the monitor. It was a good brand but we all know what that means. The monitor was a 19 inch CRT type so I knew I wouldn’t be satisfied with anything smaller even though they were almost giving away 17 inch LCD types compared to the 19 inch LCD’s.
I wait until the Sunday paper comes out and there was the brand I preferred (no, not the same brand as the one that only lasted three years) on sale at a savings of $80. I said to the wifee we’re in luck the prices are starting to drop just when we need one and I also remember saying this is just the start of the price drops, wanna wait and see what the prices are in a couple months? Well, you know what the answer was. I was right, they are now $100 less than what I paid and there was no 150 day price protection either. When I bought I only got a 30 day price protection.
Maybe I should have waited and tried to use the computer even with a burnt out monitor. After all I’ve been accused of being in the dark for most of my life if you believe what the wifee always says.
Yep, you have to be satisfied with the price you paid at the time you buy what you need, when you need it. If you aren’t you will always be unhappy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I heard a new method of buying cars (new to me anyway). A friend of mine is a mechanic, now semi-retired so he has bought and sold plenty of cars. One time he picks out the exact truck that he wants on a dealer’s lot. He goes up to a salesman with a piece of paper in his hand. “Mr. Salesman, I have written a price for XYZmobile on the paper in my hand. If you can meet or beat that price, I’ll buy your truck right now.” So the salesman confers with his SM and they decide to play and come back with an offer $500 less than my friend’s so he agrees to the purchase.
Your friend was smart and new what he was doing.The dealership seen this and gave him a fair price.In todays market its hard to just sell a car or truck. So more dealers are finally trying to make customers happy. this way they have repeat buisness, which is the only way for a dealership to stay in buisness these day's.If a dealership is not working with you this way,there's one down the road that will!!!
This guy had a car up for auction on ebay with an option to make him an offer. I made him an offer of 15k "out of the door" including delivery from missouri to arizona.
He then demanded the entire 15k!
I'm under the impression that I am liable to pay the sales tax in Arizona... so I told him I will calculate the total amount less sales tax, title, license, doc fees, etc -- in other words: "15k out of the door" and pay him that amount.
He said that tax isn't his problem and that he wants 15k. That the term "out of the door" doesn't account for any taxes I will have to pay?!
He also claims that I am legally bound to the contract offer and have to pay him 15k for the car?
Is this correct? I made the online counter offer to his ebay listing with the explicit term of 15k "out of the door." Am I nuts or isn't that understood to mean total cost of transferring ownership (including tax, title, license, etc.)??
"Out the door" is a slang term, it has no specific meaning. You should have been clearer about what that meant to you.
Sales tax is a matter of the laws of the state in which you register the car. If you are buying a car from out of state, you shouldn't have to pay any tax to the state from which the car is coming.
I'm not familiar with Ebay or what kind of agreement that you may have been bound to, so I would read whatever Ebay provides on the matter. But as a practical matter, the seller has little to sue you for, because he has to prove quantifiable damages, which are minimal here. (He could simply sell the car to somebody else, so aside from minor costs associated with dealing with Ebay, he hasn't really lost any money if you back out.) I'd read whatever you may have agreed to with Ebay, but if you don't want to buy it, then tell him to pound sand, and let him come to your home state to sue you if he's so inclined.
Also, I'd be sure in the future to use a "weasel clause", a legal clause that gives you the right to back out. If you made the purchase subject to an inspection, you could simply look at the car, say "no", and owe nothing. And honestly, I would never buy any car without inspecting it.
robr2 -- as mentioned, this was a dealer. and besides, as others have suggested, if the term is in question, than courts will likely void the contract.
Doesn't anyone buy cars other than toyoda and honda anymore? They can't be THAT good. I owned Toyoda truck years ago and it was the biggest junker that I ever owned. Two blown head gaskets before 40K, seven {yes seven} alternators, fenders rusted out within 5 years, transmission troubles etc. etc. etc. I sold it for $200 with 120K on it and the poor sap almost got killed when the brakes failed a few months later. So I ask you, why are people so in love with these things?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
They love them because people like me put nearly 170k miles over 9 or so years on their car with only the barest minimum of maintenance. I have no reason to doubt that had I properly maintained the car, I could have gotten a lot more milage out of it.
And I sold it for at least 4 times what I would have gotten as a trade-in, if they would have taken it at all.
While your experience may have been bad, there are enough people who've had favorable ones.
Honda has had some trouble with their Odyssey and Toyota their 2007 Camry... just to name a few. But, Toyota and Honda have built a reputation on reliability and quality, which is a priority to many people.
I currently have a vehicle with a trade-in value of $30,000. Due to financing tax, maintenance plan, dealer fees, etc... it's been a year and I still owe $30,000. I'm looking at upgrading to a $60,000 vehicle.
Is there any advantage going either way on this? I can either pay off my $30,000 loan right now, and trade in the vehicle and I will have $30k for a trade in credit, and I'll need to finance the remaining $30k (plus tax/dealer fees, etc.) for the new vehicle. Or I can trade in my vehicle with a $30k payoff, and put $30k down as a downpayment for the new $60k vehicle.
It should come out to the same price in the end, but what is the best way, if any, to do if I wanted to easily obtain financing for the remaining costs of the $60k vehicle after the trade-in or down payment.
I have good credit, but as of last year I didn't have enough credit experience to obtain a $33,000 loan for a vehicle with a selling price of $33,000 without a co-signer. Either way, I will only need to finance around $35k on a vehicle with a selling price of $60k, this should be no problem without a co-signer, right?
I'm not a financial advisor but in either case, you are going to basically have nothing left in the end - you're going to have to pay the $30K you owe somewhere, either before you trade or as part of the trade. It's not going to magically disappear.
You owe $30K and have $30K in cash. If you pay off the loan, you basically have a $30K trade in. If you trade the car, you still owe the $30K.
Riddle me this: why the heck are you trading in a 1 YO car you owe $30K on for a $60K car if you can't get a loan without a co-signer???
I just moved into this country and my first experience of buying a car here has been terrible. I wanted to buy a Hyundai Sonata V6 and got a pretty decent offer from Brad Benson Hyundai at Monmouth NJ as an email quote much below the invoice price and the TMV price at Edmunds. But that is where the good story ended. After agreeing to meet them, I was shouted at, mocked, ridiculed and when I decided to walk out they showed me a paper which I signed in good faith that I would purchase the car from them except for the price. This was absolutely crazy. When I raised my voice the managers came out of their offices and apologized for the rude behavior of their salesperson but I guess they had sanctioned such behavior. The story didn't end there (I guess I should have ended it there, after this experience), I purchased the car with an agreed interest rate and signed documents at 13.5% APR (no credit history for me here) and within 3 days I get a call from their GM that I would have to pay 18.9% because they could not arrange financing. What do I do now?? I like the car but am not in love with it yet, can I just give it back to them and take my down payment back? :mad: How am I placed legally on this in this country?
The story didn't end there (I guess I should have ended it there, after this experience), I purchased the car with an agreed interest rate and signed documents at 13.5% APR (
You should have left at the first disrespect on their part. I sure wouldn't buy a car from them.
I'm not able to speak to the legalities, but it sure reads like you were hosed. I'd recommend two courses of action. Go to your bank and speak with a loan officer. Explain your situation. Consider a short term (12 to 24 month at 5 to 6.5% APR) loan and use part of your cash as collateral. This is to establish/build your credit rating. Keep your present car for the duration of the loan and then purchase another vehicle.
Also, ask the loan officer to point you in the right direction to filing a complaint against this dealership. You may have a local authority that can assist. If not, the State Attorney General's Office would be very interested in your case.
Sorry that you were put through this. I'd really love to have you come back in a few months and tell us that the dealership had to refund ALL of your money and take your used vehicle back. That would free you to purchase whatever AND wherever you want. Work with that loan officer, if soemthing like this should happen. Many banks have good car dealer contacts to assist you. Good luck!
I know I will have to pay the $30k. My question was wether it mattered (in terms of credit score and getting another loan), if I paid off the loan then traded it in. Or not pay it off, trade it in and give the dealership the $30,000 which will be used as a payoff right then. Is there a difference?
Many reasons why I choose to upgrade to a $60k vehicle. I should've mentioned I'm financing these vehicles to build up my credit and since money is cheap to borrow it seems financially logical.
This "financing didn't come through, you need to pay more" routine is a fairly common scam, and I feel badly that you've experienced it. The Car Buying Tips website refers to this as the "spot delivery scam", and you are not unique in being a victim.
Unfortunately, you most likely signed an agreement that included a "subject to" clause, rather than actual loan documents. You need to read your sales contract and loan paperwork to see what happens in the event that they don't obtain your financing.
If I were you, I would begin in earnest to find a loan from a bank or credit union. (Credit unions often have better terms.) As a new resident, you will have almost no credit history, so you won't get the best rate, but if you have a stable income, a bank account and no account blemishes, you should be able to do better than this scam rate that you are being offered by the dealership.
Otherwise, I'd read your paperwork carefully to see what happens to you if you give then the car back. If you can do that without getting burned, then do that or at least threaten to do it by taking the car there, going to the F&I guy, and handing him the keys.
Depending upon where you are from, you might want to find an expats forum to research a question about finding the car financing. Since others from abroad are in your shoes, they will know more about how someone in your position can find a loan at a more reasonable rate.
By the way, this is one reason that no one should ever go car shopping without first having financing in place. And read whatever you are signing very carefully, so that you understand everything. Don't sign anything until you've read and thoroughly understood every single document.
And make no mistake -- this is a deliberate scam. The F&I department can obtain your credit score in a matter of a few minutes, so it is obvious on the day that you buy the car what interest rate and terms can be underwritten. This is simply a way to pull more money out of your pocket, nothing more.
I can't think of one scenario where it's smart to buy a car you need a co-signer for. That means you're way in over your head.
Financial institutions are pretty liberal when it comes to car loans. I've seen them loan more money on a car than it's worth. For them to say you need a co-signer, that means the risk is too great even for them to make the deal. They want someone else responsible for the note because they don't have faith that you can pay the note on your own.
Many reasons why I choose to upgrade to a $60k vehicle. I should've mentioned I'm financing these vehicles to build up my credit and since money is cheap to borrow it seems financially logical
Make no mistake about it a 60K vehicle is a luxury. If you do not have a house, fully funded retirement, money in the bank it does not make any fianacial sense. I am pretty sure you could ask any financial advisor and he would tell you the same thing. As far as your credit score it would be a whole lot better to pay off the first car. Yes credit bureaus look at payment history but they also look at debt ratios and money owed.
I do understand "wanting" a 60K car but to say it is some how financially logical is a pretty big stretch.
Well I didn't come here to defend my decisions, just wanted to see if there was a reason to do one thing over another. There is a need for the upgraded vehicle, my current one will no longer fit my families needs. I do have a house, the reason I choose to finance is simple. My investments earn much more than the rate I get on auto loans, even more if I get 0% financing.
The reason I needed a co-signer last year was because I just recently started seeing the benefit in financing and I had practically no credit history, I also did not want to disturb my investments, having a co-signer was really no big deal.
I'm not a financial advisor, nor do I have one, but the way I do things makes sense to me. I'm somewhat new to this whole credit stuff, which is why I asked a question regarding credit and obtaining future loans.
There is a need for the upgraded vehicle, my current one will no longer fit my families needs.
I believe that other posters are questioning the notion that you can't get a vehicle that meets your family needs for something significantly less than $60k, and are indicating that if you can't buy it without a co-signer, that you can't afford it.
That's good advice. Just because one may have borrowing capacity doesn't mean that the deal makes sense for that person's financial position.
And the fact that you don't have the borrowing capacity is an even stronger sign. The lender's requirement of having a co-signer is a noteworthy indicator that your resources are too limited to manage that kind of debt, a warning sign that you should consider to be a gift to you. The lender effectively gave you sound financial advice and without charging you a consulting fee to get it -- I would take that advice and not spend so much.
Don't know your financial situation. But, the fact remains, you need a co-signer. That means that the financial institution doesn't believe you are capable of repaying the note on your own. They want someone else to be liable...along with you.
rman.....I'd tell the delaership that you didn't agree to their inflated 18.9% interest rate. Don't know what the terms were of your contract. But, I'd surely push back on them.
Time to push back on this....throw the "ball back into their court".
Give the dealership two alternatives. Either honor the original 13.5% interest rate....or, you're willing to totally unwind the deal and bring the car back to them. See how far the dealership wants to push this. They may comeback and state there's something in the contract that the sale's terms are predicated on getting you financed. They may even state that they have a binding contract. But, the fact is, there's been some misrepresentation on their part. In this case, it's a "bait and switch" on the interest rate. Stand your ground.
I'm buying the new vehicle regardless. My only question was, which one of these options would be best for my credit. If I need to pull some funds from an investment and lose a few thousand difference from would be returns so I can just pay cash and not finance anything, so be it.
I don't even know if I still need a co-signer, I just had one because I chose to finance my current vehicles entire selling price and the only credit history I had prior was a single credit card that I had for 6 months that I only used to buy gas with.
This question got pretty well side tracked, but I believe the answer to my question was to pay off my current vehicle before trading it in. Thank you
Irrespective of whether or not you proceed, I'll still tip my hat to the others above for giving you sound advice.
If you choose not to heed it, that's your decision, but you might want to read some of the other posts on this forum that detail the horror stories of those who borrowed too much, and then think twice. Otherwise, good luck with your decision.
I appreciate the advice on the question asked. However, to tell me I can get a vehicle to suit my needs for much less is ridiculous considering I never stated my needs or the vehicle. I'm sure I could live in a 300 sq ft house too, but I don't. I don't think anyone really understood what I was saying. In the end, by financing the vehicle and leaving my cash invested, I'd be saving over $10,000 after everything is said, done and paid off. Obviously that is saving compared to simply paying cash in the first place. Worse comes to worse and I find out I financed too much for whatever reason, it can just be paid off right then before it gets too bad. All I was after was which one of the stated paying off options would be considered best.
Ok while something in this whole thing does not quite add up to me I will try and answer your original question the best I can. I would pay off my current vehicle before I go to the dealership. My reasons for doing this are pretty simple. I do not believe that the dealership will give you 30K for a car you bought last year for 33K. In almost every nogoiation I have seen where the person is upside-down the dealer gets too you. I don't think it will matter much for your credit either way. I really doubt you will need a co-signer because you will now pay almost half of the cost of a new car. If you have any sizable amount of income and "investments" you should qualify just fine now.
I'll allow this to be my last comment on this topic, but I'm reasonably sure that this is what other were considering --
I have good credit, but as of last year I didn't have enough credit experience to obtain a $33,000 loan for a vehicle with a selling price of $33,000 without a co-signer. Either way, I will only need to finance around $35k on a vehicle with a selling price of $60k, this should be no problem without a co-signer, right?
What others are trying to tell you is that if the bank had issues just a year ago with loaning you $30k without a co-signer, then that's a good sign that you doesn't make sense for you go buy a car just one year later that costs $60k.
Again, just because a bank would loan you money doesn't mean that you should borrow it -- banks make money by saying yes, including to some borrowers who can't really afford it. And if the bank can look past its hunger to make more loans long enough to say no to you without a cosigner, then that really ought to tell you something.
And most of us commenting here know the market well enough to know that there are a gazillion cars that can serve the needs of anyone quite nicely and with all of the luxury appointments without requiring $60k. So let's not claim that you can't find decent new wheels for a fraction of that amount, when there are a ton of choices available.
I realize that it is tough for super-ambitious spenders to hear stuff that they don't want to hear, but when you post a question like yours on a forum like this, you are bound to get a few "Whoa, Nelly!" type responses from some folks with good financial sense. You could have paid a financial advisor a fat hourly fee to get quality advice as you've already received, so I would consider the fact that such advice free of charge to be a gift, and give some serious thought about following it. If you don't want to, that's your choice, but have you considered why you have had several unrelated people, including folks who don't necessarily agree with one another in other areas, all effectively advising the same thing?
Comments
I certainly do not go into a dealership looking for a "fight". I go in to get the car I want at the price I want to pay. If the dealership wants to try to outmaneuver me in getting a higher price, I welcome the challenge. If sales manager thinks he can get more money out of me by keeping me longer... he doesn't know who he is dealing with(an informed buyer), and it may end up costing him more.
As I've posted at least a dozen times before, I enjoy the process of negotiating for a car. So time effeciency and trying to get a deal in 30 minutes isn't a priority with me. If the process of getting my price is moving even to leisurely for me, I will walk in a heartbeat(mine)... or a New York minute, whichever is faster.
I one time followed the salesman to the SM's office, finished the negotiations right there.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Now....that's the way to do it. I agree. Whenever a sales person goes to "the tower" or the SM's desk, I go with him. Wanna do a deal? Let's get it done right now. I'm the final decision maker on my end. I want to talk to the final decision maker on their end.
More than once, a salesperson has beem a little nervous, even surprised, when I got up to go with him for approval on a deal. But, they've never once had the nerve to tell me to go back and sit down at their desk.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I’m going to let you get away with this once. The next time you put me in the same boat as that guy, I’m going to ask ‘tiedster ‘ or your buddy ‘kirstie’ to tell me where you live, got it! That "nit picker" comment, that's OK.
...As I've posted at least a dozen times before, I enjoy the process of negotiating for a car. So time effeciency and trying to get a deal in 30 minutes isn't a priority with me.
There, you’ve hit on it; you “enjoy the process”. Me and some of the others here don’t, we just want a car when we go to a dealership.
As they say, whatever turns you on but it turns me off.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
BTW it was William H. Macy.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
LOL. Kirstie would never betray me. Tidester on the other hand... tell him you're joining his fan club(started by his family members), he'll have a "Tidester, My Favorite Edmunds Host" t-shirt sent to your house next day mail... along with any other perks you desire.
Thanks for blabbing, COUSIN!!
tidester, host
I got a call back in 5 minutes agreeing to the deal. I told him I can make in that Friday evening after work (even the “local” dealer is 45 miles away). He didn’t ask for a deposit, credit card, or anything else. That Friday morning the salesman called me to confirm my appointment and gave me the VIN number of the car.
That evening, when I arrived, the car was all prepped and waiting for me in front of the dealership. Doing the paperwork and showing me the car took an hour, and I spent another hour after the sale shooting the bull with the salesman. Also, unlike many complaints posted in this forum, the dealership had NO doc fees. The F&I guy didn’t pull the mop-n-glow or other add-ons. The price quoted was simply the price I paid. No surprises.
Did I get the absolute lowest price? Probably not. Would it have been worth driving over 200 miles, and taking a day off from work going back and forth grinding down the dealerships another $100 or so? Absolutely not. Certainly a fair, stress-free, fast and easy transaction.
It sounds as if you got a great car at a great price.
But that bottom number - it's out there lurking... taunting...
I got the car "new" as a program car with 26,500 miles. Go figure. I kept it nearly five years/150,000 miles. I got regular oil changes, new brakes each year, a couple of sets of tires, and a new battery. The '01 Lumina had power everything, and I never had any trouble with the engine. I sold it for $2,900 (double the best deal the Honda place would give--of course what should I have expected.)
If I didn't have such a long commute, I might have kept it. It ran smoothly, passed any other vehicle (in fact, I got a speeding ticket one month before I sold it), and it would hold tons of stuff in the huge trunk.
I really didn't think I would miss it as much as I do. I see them everywhere, but I know they don't make them anymore
LOL! Yeah...I do think that no matter what number you end up with, there's always the thought that somehow, somewhere there's another number.
Fact is, Subaru came in under invoice...can't really complain about that deal.
Last year, my lawn tractor died....right during the spring....when demand was highest. Tried to negotiate on a new one. Got a little movement, but not much. At the end of the season, I saw ads all over the place with big discounts on my exact same model. "C'est la vie"! I won't lose any sleep over it.
Sometimes you just have to be satisfied that you did due dilligence and be happy with your deal.
Yeah, tell me about it.
Off topic but since it’s the weekend, time for a tale.
About five months ago my computer monitor died (it was a little over 3 years old at its demise, shouldn’t have happened but it did). At first I had heart palpitations thinking it was the computer itself (it was only a little over 2 years old at the time) but thankfully I determined it was in fact the monitor. It was a good brand but we all know what that means. The monitor was a 19 inch CRT type so I knew I wouldn’t be satisfied with anything smaller even though they were almost giving away 17 inch LCD types compared to the 19 inch LCD’s.
I wait until the Sunday paper comes out and there was the brand I preferred (no, not the same brand as the one that only lasted three years) on sale at a savings of $80. I said to the wifee we’re in luck the prices are starting to drop just when we need one and I also remember saying this is just the start of the price drops, wanna wait and see what the prices are in a couple months? Well, you know what the answer was. I was right, they are now $100 less than what I paid and there was no 150 day price protection either. When I bought I only got a 30 day price protection.
Maybe I should have waited and tried to use the computer even with a burnt out monitor. After all I’ve been accused of being in the dark for most of my life if you believe what the wifee always says.
Yep, you have to be satisfied with the price you paid at the time you buy what you need, when you need it. If you aren’t you will always be unhappy.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
What do you think Bobst?
He then demanded the entire 15k!
I'm under the impression that I am liable to pay the sales tax in Arizona... so I told him I will calculate the total amount less sales tax, title, license, doc fees, etc -- in other words: "15k out of the door" and pay him that amount.
He said that tax isn't his problem and that he wants 15k. That the term "out of the door" doesn't account for any taxes I will have to pay?!
He also claims that I am legally bound to the contract offer and have to pay him 15k for the car?
Is this correct? I made the online counter offer to his ebay listing with the explicit term of 15k "out of the door." Am I nuts or isn't that understood to mean total cost of transferring ownership (including tax, title, license, etc.)??
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Sativo
Sales tax is a matter of the laws of the state in which you register the car. If you are buying a car from out of state, you shouldn't have to pay any tax to the state from which the car is coming.
I'm not familiar with Ebay or what kind of agreement that you may have been bound to, so I would read whatever Ebay provides on the matter. But as a practical matter, the seller has little to sue you for, because he has to prove quantifiable damages, which are minimal here. (He could simply sell the car to somebody else, so aside from minor costs associated with dealing with Ebay, he hasn't really lost any money if you back out.) I'd read whatever you may have agreed to with Ebay, but if you don't want to buy it, then tell him to pound sand, and let him come to your home state to sue you if he's so inclined.
Also, I'd be sure in the future to use a "weasel clause", a legal clause that gives you the right to back out. If you made the purchase subject to an inspection, you could simply look at the car, say "no", and owe nothing. And honestly, I would never buy any car without inspecting it.
tidester, host
IMHO, you owe him $15K and all the fees, taxes, et al are your responsibility.
for a new 2007 Hyundai Elantra?
If he takes you to court, explain to the judge what you meant by "out the door" and I bet he will understand.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Any store can do a calculation and add the expected cost of those "free" oil changes to the price of the car!
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
And I sold it for at least 4 times what I would have gotten as a trade-in, if they would have taken it at all.
While your experience may have been bad, there are enough people who've had favorable ones.
Is there any advantage going either way on this? I can either pay off my $30,000 loan right now, and trade in the vehicle and I will have $30k for a trade in credit, and I'll need to finance the remaining $30k (plus tax/dealer fees, etc.) for the new vehicle. Or I can trade in my vehicle with a $30k payoff, and put $30k down as a downpayment for the new $60k vehicle.
It should come out to the same price in the end, but what is the best way, if any, to do if I wanted to easily obtain financing for the remaining costs of the $60k vehicle after the trade-in or down payment.
I have good credit, but as of last year I didn't have enough credit experience to obtain a $33,000 loan for a vehicle with a selling price of $33,000 without a co-signer. Either way, I will only need to finance around $35k on a vehicle with a selling price of $60k, this should be no problem without a co-signer, right?
Check with a lender to see if you still need a co-signer.
If you paid 33K a year ago, it seems most unlikely that you're going to get 30K on trade.
You owe $30K and have $30K in cash. If you pay off the loan, you basically have a $30K trade in. If you trade the car, you still owe the $30K.
Riddle me this: why the heck are you trading in a 1 YO car you owe $30K on for a $60K car if you can't get a loan without a co-signer???
But that is where the good story ended. After agreeing to meet them, I was shouted at, mocked, ridiculed and when I decided to walk out they showed me a paper which I signed in good faith that I would purchase the car from them except for the price. This was absolutely crazy. When I raised my voice the managers came out of their offices and apologized for the rude behavior of their salesperson but I guess they had sanctioned such behavior.
The story didn't end there (I guess I should have ended it there, after this experience), I purchased the car with an agreed interest rate and signed documents at 13.5% APR (no credit history for me here) and within 3 days I get a call from their GM that I would have to pay 18.9% because they could not arrange financing.
What do I do now?? I like the car but am not in love with it yet, can I just give it back to them and take my down payment back? :mad:
How am I placed legally on this in this country?
You should have left at the first disrespect on their part. I sure wouldn't buy a car from them.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, ask the loan officer to point you in the right direction to filing a complaint against this dealership. You may have a local authority that can assist. If not, the State Attorney General's Office would be very interested in your case.
Sorry that you were put through this. I'd really love to have you come back in a few months and tell us that the dealership had to refund ALL of your money and take your used vehicle back. That would free you to purchase whatever AND wherever you want. Work with that loan officer, if soemthing like this should happen. Many banks have good car dealer contacts to assist you. Good luck!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Many reasons why I choose to upgrade to a $60k vehicle. I should've mentioned I'm financing these vehicles to build up my credit and since money is cheap to borrow it seems financially logical.
Unfortunately, you most likely signed an agreement that included a "subject to" clause, rather than actual loan documents. You need to read your sales contract and loan paperwork to see what happens in the event that they don't obtain your financing.
If I were you, I would begin in earnest to find a loan from a bank or credit union. (Credit unions often have better terms.) As a new resident, you will have almost no credit history, so you won't get the best rate, but if you have a stable income, a bank account and no account blemishes, you should be able to do better than this scam rate that you are being offered by the dealership.
Otherwise, I'd read your paperwork carefully to see what happens to you if you give then the car back. If you can do that without getting burned, then do that or at least threaten to do it by taking the car there, going to the F&I guy, and handing him the keys.
Depending upon where you are from, you might want to find an expats forum to research a question about finding the car financing. Since others from abroad are in your shoes, they will know more about how someone in your position can find a loan at a more reasonable rate.
By the way, this is one reason that no one should ever go car shopping without first having financing in place. And read whatever you are signing very carefully, so that you understand everything. Don't sign anything until you've read and thoroughly understood every single document.
And make no mistake -- this is a deliberate scam. The F&I department can obtain your credit score in a matter of a few minutes, so it is obvious on the day that you buy the car what interest rate and terms can be underwritten. This is simply a way to pull more money out of your pocket, nothing more.
Good luck to you.
I can't think of one scenario where it's smart to buy a car you need a co-signer for. That means you're way in over your head.
Financial institutions are pretty liberal when it comes to car loans. I've seen them loan more money on a car than it's worth. For them to say you need a co-signer, that means the risk is too great even for them to make the deal. They want someone else responsible for the note because they don't have faith that you can pay the note on your own.
Make no mistake about it a 60K vehicle is a luxury. If you do not have a house, fully funded retirement, money in the bank it does not make any fianacial sense. I am pretty sure you could ask any financial advisor and he would tell you the same thing. As far as your credit score it would be a whole lot better to pay off the first car. Yes credit bureaus look at payment history but they also look at debt ratios and money owed.
I do understand "wanting" a 60K car but to say it is some how financially logical is a pretty big stretch.
The reason I needed a co-signer last year was because I just recently started seeing the benefit in financing and I had practically no credit history, I also did not want to disturb my investments, having a co-signer was really no big deal.
I'm not a financial advisor, nor do I have one, but the way I do things makes sense to me. I'm somewhat new to this whole credit stuff, which is why I asked a question regarding credit and obtaining future loans.
I believe that other posters are questioning the notion that you can't get a vehicle that meets your family needs for something significantly less than $60k, and are indicating that if you can't buy it without a co-signer, that you can't afford it.
That's good advice. Just because one may have borrowing capacity doesn't mean that the deal makes sense for that person's financial position.
And the fact that you don't have the borrowing capacity is an even stronger sign. The lender's requirement of having a co-signer is a noteworthy indicator that your resources are too limited to manage that kind of debt, a warning sign that you should consider to be a gift to you. The lender effectively gave you sound financial advice and without charging you a consulting fee to get it -- I would take that advice and not spend so much.
Time to push back on this....throw the "ball back into their court".
Give the dealership two alternatives. Either honor the original 13.5% interest rate....or, you're willing to totally unwind the deal and bring the car back to them. See how far the dealership wants to push this. They may comeback and state there's something in the contract that the sale's terms are predicated on getting you financed. They may even state that they have a binding contract. But, the fact is, there's been some misrepresentation on their part. In this case, it's a "bait and switch" on the interest rate. Stand your ground.
Try it and let us know what happens next.
I don't even know if I still need a co-signer, I just had one because I chose to finance my current vehicles entire selling price and the only credit history I had prior was a single credit card that I had for 6 months that I only used to buy gas with.
This question got pretty well side tracked, but I believe the answer to my question was to pay off my current vehicle before trading it in. Thank you
If you choose not to heed it, that's your decision, but you might want to read some of the other posts on this forum that detail the horror stories of those who borrowed too much, and then think twice. Otherwise, good luck with your decision.
I have good credit, but as of last year I didn't have enough credit experience to obtain a $33,000 loan for a vehicle with a selling price of $33,000 without a co-signer. Either way, I will only need to finance around $35k on a vehicle with a selling price of $60k, this should be no problem without a co-signer, right?
What others are trying to tell you is that if the bank had issues just a year ago with loaning you $30k without a co-signer, then that's a good sign that you doesn't make sense for you go buy a car just one year later that costs $60k.
Again, just because a bank would loan you money doesn't mean that you should borrow it -- banks make money by saying yes, including to some borrowers who can't really afford it. And if the bank can look past its hunger to make more loans long enough to say no to you without a cosigner, then that really ought to tell you something.
And most of us commenting here know the market well enough to know that there are a gazillion cars that can serve the needs of anyone quite nicely and with all of the luxury appointments without requiring $60k. So let's not claim that you can't find decent new wheels for a fraction of that amount, when there are a ton of choices available.
I realize that it is tough for super-ambitious spenders to hear stuff that they don't want to hear, but when you post a question like yours on a forum like this, you are bound to get a few "Whoa, Nelly!" type responses from some folks with good financial sense. You could have paid a financial advisor a fat hourly fee to get quality advice as you've already received, so I would consider the fact that such advice free of charge to be a gift, and give some serious thought about following it. If you don't want to, that's your choice, but have you considered why you have had several unrelated people, including folks who don't necessarily agree with one another in other areas, all effectively advising the same thing?