you're very welcome! as someone who's both sold and bought cars, it really helps to truly understand how the process works, and use that knowledge to do whatever it is you need to do (grind, negotiate, make an offer, etc). when i sold cars, i preferred the educated customers because they knew that a $3k below invoice deal just didn't exist on our cars at a particular time. those who don't know or understand think that all kinds of crazy things are possible all the time. there are sometimes extenuous reasons why someone can get a car for less than someone else...and it's not 100% doable all of the time. mfgrs dont always offer incentives to the dealers, who may have used that money to move an old unit...or rebates change, pricing changes, demands change, etc.
best advise i could give...be knowledgable, be realistic, be friendly, be firm. no reason to get angry or yell, no reason to just roll over and pay $4k over sticker to be nice...salespeople are people too, and you catch more flies with honey
Another question: How long are these good for?? I pulled my credit report 10/13/06 with and had a FICO score over 800. Do you think that's still a valid report or should I go in and pull another one before I go to the dealers?
unless you didn't pay any of your bills, overspent on your credit cards and never paid any of the statements or anything like that since october, you should be fine...
My wife and I are looking for a used '06 Maxima and have found several (through AutoTrader) that we like at a dealership that is 5hrs away. I've always dealt with our hometown dealer because of a long time friend there so, to be honest, I've never been through the normal negotiating process.
I've run a CARFAX check on 8 of these Maximas and they all have been bought at an auction. Seven of them are listed as former rentals and one is a former corporate fleet car. All of them are SE models with leather interior and range in miles from 12,000 to 20,000+. Most of the cars are priced at $22,500 with a couple priced around 21,900.
I called the dealership and they seemed like they didn't really care if they dealt with me or not when they found out how far away I am. The salesman said the cars are priced at 25,900 on the lot and 22,500 is the internet price which leaves him little room to work. I don't have a trade and plan on putting 5,000 down.
1. Is it normal for the internet price to be very close to the lowest price a dealer will take?
2. Does anyone have any experience with buying former rental cars?
3. What can I do to let this dealer know that I'm a serious buyer and don't care for a little road trip?
I hope you do some reading in the prices paid forums because that information is very helpful in figuring out current pricing beyond the no-haggle point...
cnc....hard to tell on used cars. It depends on how much the dealer paid for the car to begin with. Most dealers look for the "path of least resistence" to make a deal. Having someone call them up and tell the dealership they live 5 hours away probably didn't instill any confidence that you were a serious buyer.
Although a pain, really the only way to see how far you can get tehm off their number is to drive to that dealership and show them you're ready to deal right now. Also, you have to show them you're willing to drive 5 hours back home unless they can get to your price.
From my perspective, there's both good and bad when looking at rental cars. The good is, you're certain that all the maintenance has been done (which you can't tell from a private owner unless they've kept all receipts). More good.....Maximas as reliable cars with proven engines (the ubiquitous 3.5L).
The bad.....rental car drivers don't neccessarily treat the cars well (I know I don't). I wouldn't let that scare me off, though. If you take it out for an extended test drive you should be able to tell how well the car is holding up.
I've bought a couple of rental cars in the past....one Mercury Grand Marquis and one Honda Civic (don't see many of those in rental car fleets). Both were good buys and ran well for a long time.
From my perspective, there's both good and bad when looking at rental cars. The good is, you're certain that all the maintenance has been done
Where's the smiley at the end of that sentence? You should not rely on the maintenance having been performed either on time or properly (or even at all) on an ex-daily rental.
grand....I think it depends on the rental car company you buy from. I know Hertz, Avis, Enterprise....the big guns of the rental car places, offer all of the service records when you buy from them.
I can't speak to the other rental car companies, though.
Where's the smiley at the end of that sentence? You should not rely on the maintenance having been performed either on time or properly (or even at all) on an ex-daily rental.
You could say that about most any used car. When I was young I bought a couple of ex rentals. I never had any problems. As graphic pointed out the big rental car companies give matinance records. Really about the only time I would buy a used car from a dealer would be an ex rental.
Go to youtube and search for rental car videos. People doing reverse doughnuts, off roading and smoking the tires in their rentals. If you still believe it's ok to buy an ex-rental, good luck to you. I personally wouldn't touch one.
My favorite is the kids who put nitrous on a Grand Marquis rental.
I think it depends on the rental car company you buy from. I know Hertz, Avis, Enterprise....the big guns of the rental car places, offer all of the service records when you buy from them.
I would not buy from Enterprise. I have rented several vehicles that have NOT been well taken care of. Avis and Hertz go a great job.
Any used car is going to come with an air of mystery....whether you buy it from a car lot, or a rental company. We just don't know who did what to any car while it's been in their possession.
The only way to know a car has\hasn't been abused in some fashion is to buy new.
Any used car is going to come with an air of mystery....whether you buy it from a car lot, or a rental company. We just don't know who did what to any car while it's been in their possession.
I test drove a 2003 Buick Century last night outside of Milwaukee. Wisconsin has a used car sticker that must be completed by the dealership making any representations about the vehicles. By the way 50k miles for $9k It did not seem to be a bad deal, IMO.
I would buy a rental or a corporate lease vehicle. Sure, you never know what you are going to get but the price is also SUBSTANTIALLY discounted.
Just had one of my drivers who has had his wife's car to the shop 15 times in three years on a myriad of issues. And that car was purchased new.
so I went into the dealer yesterday and walked out without a deal and a massive headache. Mercury website has the "estimate your payment" option, which is what I went in with after doing some reasearch. Before going in there I made sure they had the vehicle I wanted via an inventory search and they did. My research said that the invoice price on vehicle equipped with modest options was $30921. The MSRP was 33,700.
How do you deal with a dealer who basically takes your research and tells you its garbage??????? He insisted on showing my his "papers" and his computer screen. He insisted that his invoice price was $32 and change. So I asked him, "Ok, if that's your invoice price, then are you telling me that there's no room on that number?" And he kept saying, "look at your number and I'm showing you my invoice, my ACTUAL invoice, and you tell me if there's any room".
My goodness all the profanities that wanted to spew from my mouth at that point (and considering I've got a short fuse, I'm surprised they didn't).
What the hell... How do you deal with the dealer who "is giving you this kind of education" and who "shows it to you in black and white"??? (He said all this.) How do you call him on it when you think he's lying without being rude or disrespectful???
I think he thought I was a better target because I'm a young female...
"How do you deal with the dealer who "is giving you this kind of education" and who "shows it to you in black and white"??? (He said all this.) How do you call him on it when you think he's lying without being rude or disrespectful??? "
Sounds like you are a prime candidate for the "bobst" method - as you say you have a short fuse, and maybe don't have the greatest negotiating skills.
Basically, get preapproved on financing through your own bank, credit union, or on-line source (often they will give you a blank check, good to a certain dollar amount). Once you have that, then figure out what you want to pay for the car, based off of your research. Lastly, go to the dealership (or maybe a different Mercury dealership since you didn't like this one), find the car you want on their lot, then write your offer on a piece of paper, hand it to them, and pretty much tell them to take it or leave it. If they don't accept it, you will have to be willing to leave. At that point, they may or may not stop you on the way to your car to then accept the offer now that they have seen that you are serious.
You may want to post here in this forum exactly what you are looking to buy, as well as what state you are in, and the "experts" can help formulate a fair price for you to offer. I am not saying that you are not capable of researching the vehicle on your own, but the experts herer may discover some rebates that you are not familiar with, or may be able to give you some "market information" for the specific car, based off of your location.
It sounds like the salesman used physical and verbal techniques to intimidate you. The obvious comeback could be for him to prove that Edmunds, KBB, and other sources are wrong. Waving papers with extras packed into them doesn't count.
Pick your price. Go to other dealers with cars equipped and do like the previous poster said. Be flexible on color if it's not an extreme priority for you and you'll have more choices. Be ready to get up and walk and do it the first time. Politely. Be sure they have your phone number.
I recall long ago in my youth I wanted to trade my Mustang for a Camaro. The salesman took minimum trade value for my Mustang and subtracted from full MSRP for his Camaro. I laughed all the way out of the showroom. I worked with his wife and I guess he thought I'd just pay whatever he tacked up.
After that I had a dealership where I had bought an Oldsmobile in cincy who wouldn't evaluate my used car without my signing a purchase agreement. I left. There are lots of Olds dealers (then).
The guy interrupted me with a phone call at work two days later to ask if I was still interested. I asked him what-the-#$#@ he thought I was in for Monday evening. I had ordered my car the night before he called. I would have been more vile but the secretary could hear me.
Don't have the attitude you have to purchase a car this week or this month. You'll drop a price and the dealer will contact you.
There are multiple possibilities of your "misunderstanding": 1. Someone made an error about configuration. 2. Dealer is counting regional and other miscel. fees (legitimate and otherwise) that your websites are not. 3. The websites are subtracting incentives, dealer or customer and the dealer is not. 4. Did the MSRP agree? Manufacturers are notorious for making pricing adjustments during the course of the year, which may not be reflected in websites. Those adjustments are usually small, couple of hundreds, yet they do exist. 5. Of course, he may simply be lying to you.
Here is my thought - as many dealers and buyers expressed here, it often turns to be counterproductive to get into arguments about what the true cost to the dealer and their fair profit may be. At the end of the day it does not matter - if product is in demand, the customers have to agree to shell out more money, if not - dealers have to live with much smaller profits (or even may have to accept losses).
Strategies of discussing invoice and profit often backfire on customers exactly for reasons you just demostrated. There is nothing preventing the dealers simply denying the reality, if they believe they can get more for the product.
Much more productive way of using those invoice numbers is in your internal search for maximum price YOU are willing to pay, i.e. how much is the product is worth TO YOU, and try to find out if there is a seller that agrees with your assessment. If so, you both walk away happy, if not it must mean that the car is worth more to THEM than to YOU. Nothing wrong with that - happens all the time, if you think this new plasma is not worth 5 grand, even if you could afford it, you simply don't buy it - conversely there is no law compelling the merchants to sell the stuff to you at the price that is to your liking.
And remember - if something is worth 30 grand in L.A., it does not mean it is worth the same in small town in Wisconsin. Local conditions, i.e. dealer competition within brand, brand position, etc. can vastly influence the price even within couple of thousand dollars.
Looking at a Mercury Mountaineer AWD Luxury, there is a $3,000 difference in the MSRP and invoice price using Consumer Guide as a reference. So, I'd say the dealer is fudging on his invoice by about 1k.
But, I've had dealerships pull out pieces of paper before on me as well. Saying this was their invoice price... and mine being much lower. I stuck to my guns and got my price.
How did this negotiating session end? You just walk out... or say you'd think about it? Ask to speak to the salesmanager and say you will pay this price today only. If not accepted look for another dealership.
Maradag: you have disclosed too much information! The trick to be informed but if you disclose that, you will be told that your sources are wrong. Mistakes:
1. You are playing on their field 2. You showed your cards (information) that you are holding 3. You are actually listening to a person who does not have any interest in helping you. Ignore everything but their price level, the rest is just noise. 4. You let him control you for too long. If you feel wrong, then walk or better RUN out. 5. Do not argue about invoice, it is not relevant or important, not today and not on a Mercury. Only talk about the selling price of the car which on any mercury should be under invoice because all them certainly carry incentives. 6. You are negotiating from the wrong place. Go home! Feel free to show up and test drive the vehicle. However, I suggest starting all serious negotiations online and with an internet manager.
Get your self an email that does not disclose your identity/sex. Do not pick something that looks like a funny handle because your response rate may go down but if you pick something like b_prepd or b.smart (@something.com because most sales people are not that smart...)or even f.lastname will work fine. Let me know if you want a gmail invitation. E-mail as many dealers as you can stomach for quotes, I even include dealers from one or two states away just to keep the local dealers honest. Include exact details like trim line and options as well as MSRP (no one will argue that because it is printed on the vehicle sticker and the manufacturer site has it).
If you want re-email your lowest price a few rounds and you will find that many less serious sellers will drop like flies. Only a handful will be left standing: pick the lowest price and/or closest location, get them to send you a purchase order or even all the paperwork. Recheck the math and sign all the papers at home or with a friend and go pick up the vehicle. You may even find a dealer willing to deliver?!
Since you are considering cross-over SUVs around 30k, I would suggest a Honda Pilot too which currently runs about 3k off MSRP but '06 Models were selling another 3-4k lower. Also try venturing outside of the NY which is full of sharks. Good luck!
Well, being that it was my first visit to this dealer after reading many posts here and soaking up lots of advise and strategies, I tried my best to play it cool but my guess is he dedected some kind of uncertainty.
Regardless, I was polite and I showed him a piece of paper and asked him if he could do the deal... That's where he started with all this crap... "ok, let me tap into ford's website and check out of few things and then I'll structure the deal from my computere.."blah, blah, blah.... I said "Well, you can either do it or you can't" and he continued with the "let me just check something". I've got a short fuse but I'm hardly disrespectful, so I said "sure, go ahead".
I tried not to say alot and I didn't look at what he was doing because I didn't care. Then he tried to show me the difference between my selling price and his invoice and how all those numbers crunched together showed a monthly payment of something different.
MSRP matched almost perfectly off by a $100.
Finally, as he's educating me, I looked at him and politely said, "It doesn't matter where my numbers came from. What I need to know and what you need to tell me is if you can do this deal. If you can't I'll try the dealer on the other side of town" And he said "You won't get this deal with those numbers, nor will you have anyone else take this much time to explain why". I said, "ok thanks anyway"
But you're right. I showed him the vehicle I built and the deal sheet I had prepared. I shouldn't have.
And the only misunderstanding is that he thought I didn't know enough to come in with the number I did, but I've done all my research and then some. I look much younger than I really am and I was dressed kind of like a bum (you dress down friday at the office) but he took his impression of my a bit too far. Whatever, I'm still working with the dealer on the other side of town.
Consequently, I have tried the email route and you wouldn't believe how many dealers don't want to deal this way. I tell them what I want and then say call me. I tell them I prefer email contact initially and I don't hear back from them.
I'm seriously thinking about returning this lease when its done and buying a horse.
I live in Louisville, and there are only two local Mazda dealers, one of which is part of the Farmer Auto/ Oxmoor Group, which has a horrible reputation and bad BBB rating. The other is Neil Huffman. The S-Plan could be an asset, I suppose, but since I'm not dealing with my normal guy (I've purchased Hondas before from a great, honest salesman), I'm not sure how to approach the deal.
We'd be trading in a 2003 CR-V (The dealer does have a Honda lot, so I don't know if that makes the car more desirable for him), that we could take to Car Max and get appraised and possibly get more for.
My question is this. If the model we want isn't available to buy (we'd prefer to get the loaded up model), what do you have to do to order one or wait for one? What type of commitment is reasonable before the car is ever delivered? I don't want to be stuck in a deal that suddenly turns ugly when the car is delivered. Will dealers look for what you want and have it delivered without you making a huge committment? My concern is that we haven't seen the model we want on a showroom floor yet, and it may not be worth the extra money.
If you want to succeed online, you need to expand your search far beyond a handful of dealers. 30-40 would be much better. Go outside of your state, use the phone if you like but that will give away your sex. Still only deal with Internet "manager" because those folks typically play fewer games.
What probably happened is that slimmy sales guy realized that you going to be a mini and he wanted to convert to a whale because he thought it would work. Stick to the Bobst method (one figure with OTD number), it will certainly give a good deal with least work/headache.
Stick with it, Rome was not built in a day and if you show them you are in a rush they will suck everything they can out of you. Whatever you do, do not mention the date of your lease return.
30-40 :surprise: ??? That becomes a spam :sick: It's not about how many, but more how you write your inquiry.
When I shopped for my Subaru, I made online contact with three out of 6 in 60 mile radius and it was more than enough. People can sense mass mailing and they usually ignore it.
There is no need of such a spam. Being ready to walk out does not mean you have to clutter the mailboxes of every internet manager in five-state area... No wonder they don't answer - I woulnd't either.
Why 30-40? Good question! First, some dealers do not really give serious online quotes. Second, you are trying to get a feel for price dispersion or the feel for the left tail of the price distribution. There is no reason to visit that many but I quick email with: "Dear Internet Manager: I am interested in a 'YY MODEL with (options XX, YY, ZZ and MSRP of $XX,XXX in Colors L, M, or N... and perhaps AA, BB, CC). Or Optional: I see VIN ______________ seems to match my desired configuration. Can you give me your price after all the current incentives. Thank you."
I find it imparative to uncover the price in the next few states because there are many price disparities among different regions. Some larger cities are horribile but considering a town 2-3 hours away could save $2-3k. It will take half a day to rent a car one way but an outlay of $250 and half of my day are worth the extra savings.
Furthermore, you can often leverage the price elsewhere at the local dealership. Without knowing the true floor it is hard guess where it is!
Keeping your options as wide open as possible is always a good thing considering the cost/effort of such strategy is very low. It cetainly is NOT spam because if the price is low enough, you can make it work! However, the viability of such strategies will certainly explain 2-3% coversion rates for many internet departments.
Since it sounds as though you've zeroed in on a particular model with certain equipment, search dealer inventory on Mazda's website. You should be able to find what you're looking for. Check dealers within a 100-150 mile radius of Louisville and deal directly with the ones who have suitable vehicles on the ground.
Or, to answer your question directly (though I don't understand your concern about a deal turning "ugly"), a dealer will trade for a car once you commit to a deal. You may or may not have to put a nominal amount down and/or sign a contract before they'll trade with another store.
I also don't understand your comment about the possibility of your desired model and equipment not being "worth the extra money." THAT is something that you have to decide before you commit, not something left to your whim at time of delivery.
CR-Vs are very popular. Price yours to sell privately and it will go quickly and you'll net more money than trading it.
I can tell already you’re doing something right. Being willing to walk and not falling in love with a piece of sheet metal on wheels tells me you’re on the right track. What you came across was a salesman who wanted to play games and you didn’t fall for it.
The last two times I bought (2005 and 2006), I did it via the internet followed up with a phone call and I got my price not theirs. My experience has shown that the e-mail method saves a LOT of time. However, don’t expect an e-mail reply to hit your number. For me the initial replies were a little high but the guy who was closest got a phone call to help speed up the process. While I like the e-mail method, I’m not in favor of sending e-mails several states away unless you are seriously willing to go that far to buy. Limit your search to the distance you’re willing to travel and buy from the guy that gives you your price or the closest to your price if you‘re willing to raise your offer.
Don’t concern yourself with how the dealer tries to justify their number nor do you have to tell them how you arrived at yours. If you have a price that is doable they’ll take it. Initially they will try to bump you but when they see you’re willing to leave (or hang up if doing it the way I did it), a reasonable dealer will make the deal.
Once you’ve narrowed your choice to a given dealer, it should not take more than 30 minutes to finalize the deal. Any more time than that, games are being played and it’s time to look elsewhere.
Buying a car is not difficult; all you’re looking for is a Yes or No answer. It doesn’t take long to say either and a reasonable salesman knows that.
BTW, where is your hubby during this car buying experience? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So what you are saying is there is no way you are wrong, no way you did not leave out some options in your calculations?
Had a guy last weeek that said he would dnot pay for shipping as he did not think he should have to. Happened he worked for dell and I happened to have the invoice on my desk for the ten computers we bought last week and we paid 400 for shipping these computers from Round Rock to Austin(30 miles) and he did not want to pay 675 for shipping from Japan to Austin. in short he payed for shipping
that we could take to Car Max and get appraised and possibly get more for.
I have taken a number of my fleet cars to Carmax and my experience is that they don't offer any more than other dealerships do. Their process may be a bit easier and a little bit better defined.
My question is this. If the model we want isn't available to buy (we'd prefer to get the loaded up model), what do you have to do to order one or wait for one? What type of commitment is reasonable before the car is ever delivered?
They should be able to tell you roughly when the car will arrive - perhaps 6-8 weeks on most Ford/Mazda models.
If you special order the vehicle, you better be darned sure that is what you want as the dealer is not likely to have a desire to have that vehicle in his inventory.
You made an offer, the dealer refused it. You walked. Nothing wrong at all with what you did.
If a dealer wants to "argue" with you about your numbers, run away from them. If they want to show you some substance regarding how they came up with their numbers, it's up to you whether you want to stick around and listen to it.
Nothing's cut in stone that says you have to confine yourself to one dealer, only. Move on to another dealer to see how they react to your number.
I don't have any issues with showing the dealer my numbers or how I came up with them. IF they don't agree with them, no harm, no foul. They can shoose to disagree with your numbers all they want. They won't sell a car if they choose to discredit them, though.
If you go to a couple more dealers who disagree with your numbers, all you have to do is to recheck them. That's all.
I haven't seen it in a while, but I do know that some dealers play pretty loose with numbers that have been researched. They may try to discredit your numbers. For the most part, I've found Edmunds numbers to be very accurate. It never hurts to look at Carsdirect.com or KBB.com to confirm your numbers, though.
Just a little advice to make things easier on yourself....it looks like you've changed your mind. You were looking at Pacificas. Now, you're looking at Mountaineers? Is this correct?
If so, decide on one or the other (Pacifica or Mountaineer). It will be easier to shop dealers on the same model.
"I don't have any issues with showing the dealer my numbers or how I came up with them."
I agree, but I don't see any point to it either. Our offer is what it is and there is no need to discuss how I computed it.
What if the sales person asked to see my feet so he could count my toes? I have no problem showing them my feet but I don't see the point to it either.
Frankly, by asking for a price even before the test drive, the buyer signals that he/she is serious because most of us have better things to do than walk around and harrass salespeople. Of course, there are few exceptions but these folks are easy to differentiate from serious buyers most of the time.
YIKES! Are you referring to Oxmoor Mazda? I took my minivan in for service there last week, thought their service was very good. What have you heard reguarding their reputation? This dealership just opened about a year ago, so I suppose the bad reputation is with their owners?
The Craig & Landreth Mazda dealership I bought from closed down 4 months ago. I wasn't happy with the service dept. at Neil Huffman. So Oxmoor Mazda is all I have left.
if a person is serious about buying a car, they will take a test drive, not ask about price the minute they walk on the lot. if they are asking price right off the bat, chances are they are looking at 12 different dealers and 15 different cars. not saying all, and there are always exceptions, but in my two years of sales, the people who were serious about buying a car went about it the right way. took a test drive, did a walk around, all that kind of stuff. very few come in off the bat and just spew numbers to see if you'll beat them...and then buy if you do...
You have it completly backward. If someone starts asking price before we have even gotten past the introducing stage then I know they are not serious.
The people that I meet out ont the lot that ask questions like...
"Whats your best price?" "What will you sell me this car for?" *Points "How much can you take off that one?" "I don't want to mess around I just want to know what your bottom line price is."
before we have even opened the door on a car have never bought something.
the first thing we have done when we go a car dealership is ask one of those questions. If the price is right we buy. we already know which car we want. have bought 8 new cars since 02 using that method. research first thru car magazines, other owner opinions, etc.
If I was buying a Rover, I would not be asking any of those questions either (that demographic is not "normal"), but I was buying something very main stream those would be some of my first questions. I typically already have ball park figures on what I want and these questions are just to feel out the salesperson to see what is possible. If they stick with MSRP, I know that the game is not going anywhere. In truth, walkup experience is not for me.
Furthermore, consider the fact that a test drive has nothing to do with price negotiation. I almost always test drive at the local dealership but I do not typically buy there. If I am test driving, I am selecting the right model/make, if I am looking to buy, there is no reason to waste time with a test drive. I have bought the last two vehicles without test driving the actual unit that I purchased. I negotiate via email because negotiating at the dealer is way too time consuming.
what a lot of people here tend to do is generalize what ALL or MOST people do based on what they themselves do. Consider the fact that salespeople see all kinds of people on a daily basis. Just because you buy cars in a certain way does not mean the majority does.
Most people do not research the heck out of every single car until they determine the exact one they want, then come in and just shop price. Most do not test drive at their local dealer then buy from a dealer 300 miles away to save money.
When salespeople mention what they see with regards to buying patterns, etc., their observations are truer to form because they see a wide variety of people, not just you over and over again.
just some things to consider when making "General" statements as a consumer about the consumer base...
Most do not test drive at their local dealer then buy from a dealer 300 miles away to save money.
True, but more folks are doing that today than even 5 years ago!
However, there is a caveat: the Internet is certainly going to create more and more informed buyers. As buyers continue to become more informed they are also becoming much more price sensetive. Proof: new vehicle profit margins and (selling) prices have been sliding for many years!
and as a salesperson, i preferred the educated customer to those who were not educated on either the pricing or product. i agree, that the internet is going to be a huge change for dealerships, and i was the internet manager at my store for about 8 months before i left. I found that it was a great way to sell a car, as it was to buy. It was nice to build a rapport with a customer via email (which can be easier for people sometimes), and have all the uncomfortable and unpleasant negotiations out of the way before they come into the store. all a customer would do after i had given them a price was to come in and drive the car to see if they liked it. if they did, we wrote it up. if not, well, such is life.
either way, it's a long way off before the majority of people that buy cars are educated in the process like avid edmunds readers are. sometimes, i think people forget that there are a LOT more people outside of our little community than we think.
I preferred the educated customer to those who were not educated on either the pricing or product.
I read this a lot, but really do not understand why you(salesmen) would prefer the educated buyer over the "ignert". You'll never make more than a mini on an informed buyer(excluding high-end). Those who aren't an educated consumer are more likely to overpay.
Sure they may "waste your time" with silly lowball offers from time to time and may be irritating... but I would also think you're more likely to land the great whale(a lay down) with an uninformed buyer.
because, like anyone else, people prefer the path of least resistence. the majority of people these days do not walk into a dealership and lay down and say "I'll take this for MSRP please!"
That being said, the remainder of people are either ignorant in the fact that they think every car can be had for thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars off, and they try all the "old school" negotiating tactics on you, or they are fairly educated in the fact that they have a general understanding of where pricing should fall on most cars. so rather than spending hours grinding with some ignoramus, i'd rather take the mini, make a quick smooth deal, have happy customers, and move on. simple as that.
but i dont sell anymore, so i guess its a moot point coming from me. i'd be interested to hear other salespeople get into what kind of customers they prefer (other than the obvious laydowns, which we all like, but are rare)
If you made an agreement on paper and placed a deposit of 100 dollars what are your options for getting out of the deal? I was originally told that I would have the vehicle by last tuesday, I happen to call the dealer the previous Saturday and they said it would be here by this week. I need a new car by the weekend. Can I get out this deal or am I stuck? I have another dealership that would match the deal?
Did you specify a date for delivery on your contract/deal?
Call the manager and say: I need the vehicle by let's say tomorrow or my $100 back. I hope you gave them a credit card for that deposit because if you did you can call the issuer too... Chances they will try to keep you on the hook as long as they can. Do not play nice!
thene....I can see what you're saying about the rarity of a buyer who has not done a lot of research. I would imagine they would have been the most difficult to sell to. No idea of what they want...no idea of the market. To me, that's a "no sale".
Comments
you're very welcome! as someone who's both sold and bought cars, it really helps to truly understand how the process works, and use that knowledge to do whatever it is you need to do (grind, negotiate, make an offer, etc). when i sold cars, i preferred the educated customers because they knew that a $3k below invoice deal just didn't exist on our cars at a particular time. those who don't know or understand think that all kinds of crazy things are possible all the time. there are sometimes extenuous reasons why someone can get a car for less than someone else...and it's not 100% doable all of the time. mfgrs dont always offer incentives to the dealers, who may have used that money to move an old unit...or rebates change, pricing changes, demands change, etc.
best advise i could give...be knowledgable, be realistic, be friendly, be firm. no reason to get angry or yell, no reason to just roll over and pay $4k over sticker to be nice...salespeople are people too, and you catch more flies with honey
good luck!
-thene
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
I've run a CARFAX check on 8 of these Maximas and they all have been bought at an auction. Seven of them are listed as former rentals and one is a former corporate fleet car. All of them are SE models with leather interior and range in miles from 12,000 to 20,000+. Most of the cars are priced at $22,500 with a couple priced around 21,900.
I called the dealership and they seemed like they didn't really care if they dealt with me or not when they found out how far away I am. The salesman said the cars are priced at 25,900 on the lot and 22,500 is the internet price which leaves him little room to work. I don't have a trade and plan on putting 5,000 down.
1. Is it normal for the internet price to be very close to the lowest price a dealer will take?
2. Does anyone have any experience with buying former rental cars?
3. What can I do to let this dealer know that I'm a serious buyer and don't care for a little road trip?
Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
Good luck!
Although a pain, really the only way to see how far you can get tehm off their number is to drive to that dealership and show them you're ready to deal right now. Also, you have to show them you're willing to drive 5 hours back home unless they can get to your price.
From my perspective, there's both good and bad when looking at rental cars. The good is, you're certain that all the maintenance has been done (which you can't tell from a private owner unless they've kept all receipts). More good.....Maximas as reliable cars with proven engines (the ubiquitous 3.5L).
The bad.....rental car drivers don't neccessarily treat the cars well (I know I don't). I wouldn't let that scare me off, though. If you take it out for an extended test drive you should be able to tell how well the car is holding up.
I've bought a couple of rental cars in the past....one Mercury Grand Marquis and one Honda Civic (don't see many of those in rental car fleets). Both were good buys and ran well for a long time.
Where's the smiley at the end of that sentence? You should not rely on the maintenance having been performed either on time or properly (or even at all) on an ex-daily rental.
I can't speak to the other rental car companies, though.
You could say that about most any used car. When I was young I bought a couple of ex rentals. I never had any problems. As graphic pointed out the big rental car companies give matinance records. Really about the only time I would buy a used car from a dealer would be an ex rental.
My favorite is the kids who put nitrous on a Grand Marquis rental.
I would not buy from Enterprise. I have rented several vehicles that have NOT been well taken care of. Avis and Hertz go a great job.
The only way to know a car has\hasn't been abused in some fashion is to buy new.
I test drove a 2003 Buick Century last night outside of Milwaukee. Wisconsin has a used car sticker that must be completed by the dealership making any representations about the vehicles. By the way 50k miles for $9k It did not seem to be a bad deal, IMO.
I would buy a rental or a corporate lease vehicle. Sure, you never know what you are going to get but the price is also SUBSTANTIALLY discounted.
Just had one of my drivers who has had his wife's car to the shop 15 times in three years on a myriad of issues. And that car was purchased new.
How do you deal with a dealer who basically takes your research and tells you its garbage??????? He insisted on showing my his "papers" and his computer screen. He insisted that his invoice price was $32 and change. So I asked him, "Ok, if that's your invoice price, then are you telling me that there's no room on that number?" And he kept saying, "look at your number and I'm showing you my invoice, my ACTUAL invoice, and you tell me if there's any room".
My goodness all the profanities that wanted to spew from my mouth at that point (and considering I've got a short fuse, I'm surprised they didn't).
What the hell... How do you deal with the dealer who "is giving you this kind of education" and who "shows it to you in black and white"??? (He said all this.) How do you call him on it when you think he's lying without being rude or disrespectful???
I think he thought I was a better target because I'm a young female...
Sounds like you are a prime candidate for the "bobst" method - as you say you have a short fuse, and maybe don't have the greatest negotiating skills.
Basically, get preapproved on financing through your own bank, credit union, or on-line source (often they will give you a blank check, good to a certain dollar amount). Once you have that, then figure out what you want to pay for the car, based off of your research. Lastly, go to the dealership (or maybe a different Mercury dealership since you didn't like this one), find the car you want on their lot, then write your offer on a piece of paper, hand it to them, and pretty much tell them to take it or leave it. If they don't accept it, you will have to be willing to leave. At that point, they may or may not stop you on the way to your car to then accept the offer now that they have seen that you are serious.
You may want to post here in this forum exactly what you are looking to buy, as well as what state you are in, and the "experts" can help formulate a fair price for you to offer. I am not saying that you are not capable of researching the vehicle on your own, but the experts herer may discover some rebates that you are not familiar with, or may be able to give you some "market information" for the specific car, based off of your location.
Pick your price. Go to other dealers with cars equipped and do like the previous poster said. Be flexible on color if it's not an extreme priority for you and you'll have more choices. Be ready to get up and walk and do it the first time. Politely. Be sure they have your phone number.
I recall long ago in my youth I wanted to trade my Mustang for a Camaro. The salesman took minimum trade value for my Mustang and subtracted from full MSRP for his Camaro. I laughed all the way out of the showroom. I worked with his wife and I guess he thought I'd just pay whatever he tacked up.
After that I had a dealership where I had bought an Oldsmobile in cincy who wouldn't evaluate my used car without my signing a purchase agreement. I left. There are lots of Olds dealers (then).
The guy interrupted me with a phone call at work two days later to ask if I was still interested. I asked him what-the-#$#@ he thought I was in for Monday evening. I had ordered my car the night before he called. I would have been more vile but the secretary could hear me.
Don't have the attitude you have to purchase a car this week or this month. You'll drop a price and the dealer will contact you.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
1. Someone made an error about configuration.
2. Dealer is counting regional and other miscel. fees (legitimate and otherwise) that your websites are not.
3. The websites are subtracting incentives, dealer or customer and the dealer is not.
4. Did the MSRP agree? Manufacturers are notorious for making pricing adjustments during the course of the year, which may not be reflected in websites. Those adjustments are usually small, couple of hundreds, yet they do exist.
5. Of course, he may simply be lying to you.
Here is my thought - as many dealers and buyers expressed here, it often turns to be counterproductive to get into arguments about what the true cost to the dealer and their fair profit may be. At the end of the day it does not matter - if product is in demand, the customers have to agree to shell out more money, if not - dealers have to live with much smaller profits (or even may have to accept losses).
Strategies of discussing invoice and profit often backfire on customers exactly for reasons you just demostrated. There is nothing preventing the dealers simply denying the reality, if they believe they can get more for the product.
Much more productive way of using those invoice numbers is in your internal search for maximum price YOU are willing to pay, i.e. how much is the product is worth TO YOU, and try to find out if there is a seller that agrees with your assessment. If so, you both walk away happy, if not it must mean that the car is worth more to THEM than to YOU. Nothing wrong with that - happens all the time, if you think this new plasma is not worth 5 grand, even if you could afford it, you simply don't buy it - conversely there is no law compelling the merchants to sell the stuff to you at the price that is to your liking.
And remember - if something is worth 30 grand in L.A., it does not mean it is worth the same in small town in Wisconsin. Local conditions, i.e. dealer competition within brand, brand position, etc. can vastly influence the price even within couple of thousand dollars.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
But, I've had dealerships pull out pieces of paper before on me as well. Saying this was their invoice price... and mine being much lower. I stuck to my guns and got my price.
How did this negotiating session end? You just walk out... or say you'd think about it? Ask to speak to the salesmanager and say you will pay this price today only. If not accepted look for another dealership.
1. You are playing on their field
2. You showed your cards (information) that you are holding
3. You are actually listening to a person who does not have any interest in helping you. Ignore everything but their price level, the rest is just noise.
4. You let him control you for too long. If you feel wrong, then walk or better RUN out.
5. Do not argue about invoice, it is not relevant or important, not today and not on a Mercury. Only talk about the selling price of the car which on any mercury should be under invoice because all them certainly carry incentives.
6. You are negotiating from the wrong place. Go home! Feel free to show up and test drive the vehicle. However, I suggest starting all serious negotiations online and with an internet manager.
Get your self an email that does not disclose your identity/sex. Do not pick something that looks like a funny handle because your response rate may go down but if you pick something like b_prepd or b.smart (@something.com because most sales people are not that smart...)or even f.lastname will work fine. Let me know if you want a gmail invitation. E-mail as many dealers as you can stomach for quotes, I even include dealers from one or two states away just to keep the local dealers honest. Include exact details like trim line and options as well as MSRP (no one will argue that because it is printed on the vehicle sticker and the manufacturer site has it).
If you want re-email your lowest price a few rounds and you will find that many less serious sellers will drop like flies. Only a handful will be left standing: pick the lowest price and/or closest location, get them to send you a purchase order or even all the paperwork. Recheck the math and sign all the papers at home or with a friend and go pick up the vehicle. You may even find a dealer willing to deliver?!
Since you are considering cross-over SUVs around 30k, I would suggest a Honda Pilot too which currently runs about 3k off MSRP but '06 Models were selling another 3-4k lower. Also try venturing outside of the NY which is full of sharks. Good luck!
Well, being that it was my first visit to this dealer after reading many posts here and soaking up lots of advise and strategies, I tried my best to play it cool but my guess is he dedected some kind of uncertainty.
Regardless, I was polite and I showed him a piece of paper and asked him if he could do the deal... That's where he started with all this crap... "ok, let me tap into ford's website and check out of few things and then I'll structure the deal from my computere.."blah, blah, blah.... I said "Well, you can either do it or you can't" and he continued with the "let me just check something". I've got a short fuse but I'm hardly disrespectful, so I said "sure, go ahead".
I tried not to say alot and I didn't look at what he was doing because I didn't care. Then he tried to show me the difference between my selling price and his invoice and how all those numbers crunched together showed a monthly payment of something different.
MSRP matched almost perfectly off by a $100.
Finally, as he's educating me, I looked at him and politely said, "It doesn't matter where my numbers came from. What I need to know and what you need to tell me is if you can do this deal. If you can't I'll try the dealer on the other side of town" And he said "You won't get this deal with those numbers, nor will you have anyone else take this much time to explain why". I said, "ok thanks anyway"
But you're right. I showed him the vehicle I built and the deal sheet I had prepared. I shouldn't have.
And the only misunderstanding is that he thought I didn't know enough to come in with the number I did, but I've done all my research and then some. I look much younger than I really am and I was dressed kind of like a bum (you dress down friday at the office) but he took his impression of my a bit too far. Whatever, I'm still working with the dealer on the other side of town.
Consequently, I have tried the email route and you wouldn't believe how many dealers don't want to deal this way. I tell them what I want and then say call me. I tell them I prefer email contact initially and I don't hear back from them.
I'm seriously thinking about returning this lease when its done and buying a horse.
Thanks all.
We'd be trading in a 2003 CR-V (The dealer does have a Honda lot, so I don't know if that makes the car more desirable for him), that we could take to Car Max and get appraised and possibly get more for.
My question is this. If the model we want isn't available to buy (we'd prefer to get the loaded up model), what do you have to do to order one or wait for one? What type of commitment is reasonable before the car is ever delivered? I don't want to be stuck in a deal that suddenly turns ugly when the car is delivered. Will dealers look for what you want and have it delivered without you making a huge committment? My concern is that we haven't seen the model we want on a showroom floor yet, and it may not be worth the extra money.
Hope I'm making some sense.
What probably happened is that slimmy sales guy realized that you going to be a mini and he wanted to convert to a whale because he thought it would work. Stick to the Bobst method (one figure with OTD number), it will certainly give a good deal with least work/headache.
Stick with it, Rome was not built in a day and if you show them you are in a rush they will suck everything they can out of you. Whatever you do, do not mention the date of your lease return.
When I shopped for my Subaru, I made online contact with three out of 6 in 60 mile radius and it was more than enough. People can sense mass mailing and they usually ignore it.
There is no need of such a spam. Being ready to walk out does not mean you have to clutter the mailboxes of every internet manager in five-state area... No wonder they don't answer - I woulnd't either.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Sending multiple separate emails to many dealers in the area is not spam. This is not blind advertsing nor phishing as spam is.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
"Dear Internet Manager: I am interested in a 'YY MODEL with (options XX, YY, ZZ and MSRP of $XX,XXX in Colors L, M, or N... and perhaps AA, BB, CC). Or Optional: I see VIN ______________ seems to match my desired configuration. Can you give me your price after all the current incentives. Thank you."
I find it imparative to uncover the price in the next few states because there are many price disparities among different regions. Some larger cities are horribile but considering a town 2-3 hours away could save $2-3k. It will take half a day to rent a car one way but an outlay of $250 and half of my day are worth the extra savings.
Furthermore, you can often leverage the price elsewhere at the local dealership. Without knowing the true floor it is hard guess where it is!
Keeping your options as wide open as possible is always a good thing considering the cost/effort of such strategy is very low. It cetainly is NOT spam because if the price is low enough, you can make it work! However, the viability of such strategies will certainly explain 2-3% coversion rates for many internet departments.
Or, to answer your question directly (though I don't understand your concern about a deal turning "ugly"), a dealer will trade for a car once you commit to a deal. You may or may not have to put a nominal amount down and/or sign a contract before they'll trade with another store.
I also don't understand your comment about the possibility of your desired model and equipment not being "worth the extra money." THAT is something that you have to decide before you commit, not something left to your whim at time of delivery.
CR-Vs are very popular. Price yours to sell privately and it will go quickly and you'll net more money than trading it.
I can tell already you’re doing something right. Being willing to walk and not falling in love with a piece of sheet metal on wheels tells me you’re on the right track. What you came across was a salesman who wanted to play games and you didn’t fall for it.
The last two times I bought (2005 and 2006), I did it via the internet followed up with a phone call and I got my price not theirs. My experience has shown that the e-mail method saves a LOT of time. However, don’t expect an e-mail reply to hit your number. For me the initial replies were a little high but the guy who was closest got a phone call to help speed up the process. While I like the e-mail method, I’m not in favor of sending e-mails several states away unless you are seriously willing to go that far to buy. Limit your search to the distance you’re willing to travel and buy from the guy that gives you your price or the closest to your price if you‘re willing to raise your offer.
Don’t concern yourself with how the dealer tries to justify their number nor do you have to tell them how you arrived at yours. If you have a price that is doable they’ll take it. Initially they will try to bump you but when they see you’re willing to leave (or hang up if doing it the way I did it), a reasonable dealer will make the deal.
Once you’ve narrowed your choice to a given dealer, it should not take more than 30 minutes to finalize the deal. Any more time than that, games are being played and it’s time to look elsewhere.
Buying a car is not difficult; all you’re looking for is a Yes or No answer. It doesn’t take long to say either and a reasonable salesman knows that.
BTW, where is your hubby during this car buying experience? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Had a guy last weeek that said he would dnot pay for shipping
as he did not think he should have to. Happened he worked for dell and I happened to have the invoice on my desk for the ten computers we bought last week and we paid 400 for shipping these computers from Round Rock to Austin(30 miles) and he did not want to pay 675 for shipping from Japan to Austin. in short he payed for shipping
1) You went to the dealer and made an offer to buy a car.
2) They did not accept your offer.
3) You left.
So why get upset? A lot of us have had offers turned down. We either increase our offer, try somewhere else, or buy a different kind of car.
That's all there is to it.
I have taken a number of my fleet cars to Carmax and my experience is that they don't offer any more than other dealerships do. Their process may be a bit easier and a little bit better defined.
They should be able to tell you roughly when the car will arrive - perhaps 6-8 weeks on most Ford/Mazda models.
If you special order the vehicle, you better be darned sure that is what you want as the dealer is not likely to have a desire to have that vehicle in his inventory.
You made an offer, the dealer refused it. You walked. Nothing wrong at all with what you did.
If a dealer wants to "argue" with you about your numbers, run away from them. If they want to show you some substance regarding how they came up with their numbers, it's up to you whether you want to stick around and listen to it.
Nothing's cut in stone that says you have to confine yourself to one dealer, only. Move on to another dealer to see how they react to your number.
I don't have any issues with showing the dealer my numbers or how I came up with them. IF they don't agree with them, no harm, no foul. They can shoose to disagree with your numbers all they want. They won't sell a car if they choose to discredit them, though.
If you go to a couple more dealers who disagree with your numbers, all you have to do is to recheck them. That's all.
I haven't seen it in a while, but I do know that some dealers play pretty loose with numbers that have been researched. They may try to discredit your numbers. For the most part, I've found Edmunds numbers to be very accurate. It never hurts to look at Carsdirect.com or KBB.com to confirm your numbers, though.
Just a little advice to make things easier on yourself....it looks like you've changed your mind. You were looking at Pacificas. Now, you're looking at Mountaineers? Is this correct?
If so, decide on one or the other (Pacifica or Mountaineer). It will be easier to shop dealers on the same model.
I agree, but I don't see any point to it either. Our offer is what it is and there is no need to discuss how I computed it.
What if the sales person asked to see my feet so he could count my toes? I have no problem showing them my feet but I don't see the point to it either.
I will say though that having accurate numbers can sometimes help convince a store that a buyer is indeed serious.
This dealership just opened about a year ago, so I suppose the bad reputation is with their owners?
The Craig & Landreth Mazda dealership I bought from closed down 4 months ago. I wasn't happy with the service dept. at Neil Huffman. So Oxmoor Mazda is all I have left.
anyways, my two cents
-thene
The people that I meet out ont the lot that ask questions like...
"Whats your best price?"
"What will you sell me this car for?" *Points
"How much can you take off that one?"
"I don't want to mess around I just want to know what your bottom line price is."
before we have even opened the door on a car have never bought something.
Furthermore, consider the fact that a test drive has nothing to do with price negotiation. I almost always test drive at the local dealership but I do not typically buy there. If I am test driving, I am selecting the right model/make, if I am looking to buy, there is no reason to waste time with a test drive. I have bought the last two vehicles without test driving the actual unit that I purchased. I negotiate via email because negotiating at the dealer is way too time consuming.
Most people do not research the heck out of every single car until they determine the exact one they want, then come in and just shop price. Most do not test drive at their local dealer then buy from a dealer 300 miles away to save money.
When salespeople mention what they see with regards to buying patterns, etc., their observations are truer to form because they see a wide variety of people, not just you over and over again.
just some things to consider when making "General" statements as a consumer about the consumer base...
-thene
Most do not test drive at their local dealer then buy from a dealer 300 miles away to save money.
True, but more folks are doing that today than even 5 years ago!
However, there is a caveat: the Internet is certainly going to create more and more informed buyers. As buyers continue to become more informed they are also becoming much more price sensetive. Proof: new vehicle profit margins and (selling) prices have been sliding for many years!
either way, it's a long way off before the majority of people that buy cars are educated in the process like avid edmunds readers are. sometimes, i think people forget that there are a LOT more people outside of our little community than we think.
-thene
I read this a lot, but really do not understand why you(salesmen) would prefer the educated buyer over the "ignert". You'll never make more than a mini on an informed buyer(excluding high-end). Those who aren't an educated consumer are more likely to overpay.
Sure they may "waste your time" with silly lowball offers from time to time and may be irritating... but I would also think you're more likely to land the great whale(a lay down) with an uninformed buyer.
That being said, the remainder of people are either ignorant in the fact that they think every car can be had for thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars off, and they try all the "old school" negotiating tactics on you, or they are fairly educated in the fact that they have a general understanding of where pricing should fall on most cars. so rather than spending hours grinding with some ignoramus, i'd rather take the mini, make a quick smooth deal, have happy customers, and move on. simple as that.
but i dont sell anymore, so i guess its a moot point coming from me. i'd be interested to hear other salespeople get into what kind of customers they prefer (other than the obvious laydowns, which we all like, but are rare)
-thene
Call the manager and say: I need the vehicle by let's say tomorrow or my $100 back. I hope you gave them a credit card for that deposit because if you did you can call the issuer too... Chances they will try to keep you on the hook as long as they can. Do not play nice!
Both sides go away unhappy.