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Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
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GRAPHICGUY-You are exactly right, you don't know when or how bad a failure will be, and it is somewhat of a "crap shoot." You can have a $2 fuse or have a major computer fail, or both many many times. You just don't know, anything can happen at anytime. Personally, if i don't lease i always purchase gap and a warranty if i think i'm gonna keep the vehicle. To me it just makes sense to be protected in both cases.
Which make and model would that be?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I know there is no magic formula to make up the difference (except for money) but does anyone have suggestions on how to minimize the hit? Also suggestions for financing other than a dealership? I'm trying to get this done in the next couple of days to take advantage of the end of the quarter deals that are available.
1. Do I need one.
2. Is the price justified.
1. When buying a cheaper car, my current financial situation is such that even a complete rebuild of an engine/transmission would not ruin me. Yes, it would make a dent and hurt me, but it would not send me to a poor house. Which means, I may purchase it if the price is right, but my financial well-being is not at stake. Moreover, most machines have tendency to break down either at beginning or end of their lifecycle, not in the middle. While first 12 month of mfr warranty is usually worth a lot. Extended warranties happen to pick up the sweet spot of fewest major repair. Just ask the same warranty companies if they would insure a vehicle with 120K miles and wait until they stop laughing....
2. In Florida, extended warranties are regulated as insurance, which basically means the prices are set and non-negotiable (rates are registered with the state commission). Average 2-3 year extension on 25K car runs close to 1.5-2 thousand with $50-100 deductible. So now lets analyze it:
a) in case of catastrophic breakdown, it will pay for itself. We all know how unlikely it is to happen, but it may.
b) how many smaller repairs, like broken seals, hoses, etc. would it take to pay for the warranty? Anywhere from 3 to 5 repairs, say $500 each (w/ $100 ded it's $400 benefit). All in two or three years of duration. The car would have to be a major lemon - but I don't know that now, when it's new and shiny.
c) moreover, most warranties have same price until you reach end of manufacturer's. After three years I could get a better sense whether or not I can expect the car crap out on me - so why buy it at time of purchase? Other than some small extra benefit and ability to finance, there is no real incentive.
So - at the end. Contingent I can be persuaded to spend any money on the added warranty, they are usually not worth the prices they are sold in my state - not for me, anyway, as their cost-to-benefit and cost-to-risk ratios are simply too high. You get me 3 extra years mfrs. warranty for few hundred bucks (with small ded.), I may take it. Two grand - you can forget about it.
The situation may be slightly different if I elected to buy something more expensive, as the "catastrophic" risk increases and impacts my finances by much larger amount (compare 3 grand engine job to 10 grand). But it's again matter of pricing.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Minimize the hit? Best thing I can recommend is to hold onto that Explorer until the wheels fall off. There's no way to minimize the hit in any way I can reasonably see. You might try to sell the Explorer yourself. But, be prepared to write a big check in addition to what anyone will buy it for (if you find a buyer), just to get a clean title.
As I said, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the market is what it is.
Then, you have some, like me, who believes I'll come out ahead, even if I have a failure of some sort, by paying for it out of my own pocket (as opposed to paying that $2,000 for extended warranty). I'm of the mind that the vast majority of new cars aren't going to suffer some sort of catastrophic failure.
Clearly, the odds are in my favor. If they weren't, the extended warranty companies would be out of business by now covering $3,000 in repairs that they only got $2,000 for.
Again, you sound like you're very good at what you do. I'm not your target audience, though.
What car line are you associated with?
*if you had gap and totalled this vehicle out, it would pay off the loan IN FULL, and in most cases will pay your deductible too. This is a NO BRAINER for you, a $500 gap policy would cost you less than $10 a month and would pay probably around $15000 if you had to use it.
I'm probably a bad person to ask about insurance right now. I'm in the midst of "negotiating" with my insurance company for storm damage to my home. I've had my fair share of totaled cars (none of them my fault)...a couple involving uninsured drivers. I'd have to say that both my home owners and automobile policies are both in the negative range with their respective underwriting companies as of right now.
Everyone I have ever known has beaten those odds. I have know people with POS's that shouldn't be on the road beat those odds. I do think he is using poor logic on that one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
HUH...I know I'm going to sound like Ray Charles here but 'what did he say' :confuse: :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
" Reliability is an elusive entity to quantify, particularly in the face of great variance in subjective experiences from the subset reporting. "
Hat's off, I hereby nominate this post for winner in the 2008 most eloquently stated category. Should richard64 not be banned, or if indeed he is, the Lord Guardian of the Grammar would agree.
Back in the day when politicians were both witty and eloquent, yeah, I know it's been a long time....
Benjamin Disraeli, while addressing the House of Lords, the upper House of Parliament, was once censured by the of the Speaker of House for making the statement that half of the House of Commons were both total and compleat idiots.
Upon being cautioned by the Speaker of the House who demanded that he immediately retract his accusation. He stood up and announced, Mr.Speaker, I apologise, half of the House of Commons are not total and compleat idiots.
But back to car purchase strategies. Any salesman I know would love to sell to the educated.So learn the vehicle you'd like to buy, and if some profit is to be had, you will drive away.
Where is the Professor when we need him?
But I love the wit of Benjamin Disraeli......
Let's try harder to stay on topic. Thanks.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I spend upwards of an hour trying on shoes...and I may not buy.
The last time I bought a car, it lasted less than an hour
I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being funny. That's why I had the smiley.
I like your dealership's approach. Don't preinstall anything, and if you can convince people to buy it, awesome for you.
Angel
Respectfully,
I don't get your point. After the fact? Wouldn't most be purchased at the time the car is purchased? Or do many folks buy EW's later? For me, if I am at 34K miles it is decision time. If the car has been trouble free then I can't see why I would want an EW at that point. If the car has been unreliable, it is time to go new car shopping if I haven't already got ticked off and traded it away. Why would I want to buy a EW for a car that is cutting the fool? Cut my losses and move on.
I would think that EW's are directly related to "purchasing strategies." Three things I am most concerned about in formulating my purchase strategy:
1. price of car
2. EW -- to buy or not to buy? price of EW? how long will I keep the car?
3. finance terms: interest rate, money factor, fees
It doesn't do much good to focus on #1 only to over pay for #2 & #3. All are part of the purchasing "strategy."
EDIT: Did you move one of my posts to "extended warranties" or am I losing it? It's getting late on the east coast...
There may be separate strategies connected to things like extended warranties, insurance, various service contracts, mop'n'glo add-ons and so forth that are related to the purchase of a car but those are separate topics.
They are strictly ancillary and that is why I am having trouble relating discussion of extended warranties to (car) purchasing strategies.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I'm so disappointed. :sick:
There was a sales guy who was here about a month ago. Can't remember his name, but he came and went pretty quickly. He bemoaned that his potential customers wouldn't let him finish his car presentation without interrupting him....that they asked too many questions. We tried to tell him that the fact they were interaction, asking questions, interjecting....all of that was a "good thing" in his job. He didn't come back, so I'll assume he's either out of the business. Or, he's struggling because his chief goal was to do a full product demo without interruption, instead of listening to his customer.
As my late Father used to say, "there's a reason God gave us one mouth and two ears.....listen twice as much as you speak".
We welcome all points of view (as long as our KIND hosts let us). Stick around awhile and we'll assimilate you :P
My father used to tell me the exact same thing....and its the truth. Especially in a selling environment. You've probably heard the saying "first one to talk loses," when talking about trying to close a deal. Something tells me if i was trying to sell and you were buying, we'd sit in silence for hours!!
I try not to get so heated, but some posts on here beg for it!!
Not worth getting riled up over.
If you want to get the best price on a new car, my advise would be to do research to get an idea of what the cars invoice price is and what others have paid for comparable vehicles. Most dealers will tell you what the rebates are so no need to look into that, but you can if it'd make you more comfortable. Let them make their offer on what the selling price of the car is and make a fair counter, if you try to buy at invoice minus rebates you probably will have to play a little back and forth. A "fair" price would probably be about $500 over invoice, minus all rebates, depending on how expensive the car. That allows you to buy the car way under sticker, still get the rebates, and allows the dealership to "pay the bills," with a little left over for profit. Maybe use a 75/25 split. If your research has shown a 2 grand markup from invoice to sticker, ask for 500 over invoice. If its shown 1600 of markup, ask for 400 over sticker and so on. Whatever you do, don't act as if you have the "game" figured out and you know all the "tricks." That really is a turn-off for a lot of people and will make things a lot harder for both the salesperson and buyer. Show a respect for them and you'll get it in return. Keep in mind this is coming from a GOOD dealerhip with fair sales practices, it might not work at some of these horrific dealerships some of you have described. If you have a trade in, don't expect the dealership to give you RETAIL price for yours if you want to pay invoice or wholesale for theirs. Keep things level on the same page as far as values go. With all thats available online, sales people expect you to negotiate based on your findings. Just keep in mind what you read online isn't 100% accurate, but in most cases can be used as a good guide.
If you honestly have an interest in one of the products in the f&i office and think they are marked up way to high, level with the f&i manager. Say something like "look, i know you need to make a profit, but i'm really interested in but its a little too much, how about you sell it for $50-$100 over cost and we just finish everything up." We get paid on our dollar per car, and more importantly our product penetration, so more than likely they'll be more than happy to make less profit as long as they get the product sale. Warrantys & gap-ask for $100 over. Everything else, ask for $50. Trust me it'll work.
I've been out of the "sales front" for quite a while so i really don't deal with the hagglers low-balling, and all that stuff. I get more of the grinders more than anything and i just state the facts that i know and leave it up to them, most of the real "grinders" will do whatever they want regardless of what I say. I understand i'm not gonna sell everybody everything everytime. I always try to level with my customers and suggest what i feel they'd benefit from in each situation. Laydowns in the f&i office are very very rare. Occasionally i'll get someone who thinks the numbers have changed from what they were told, so i immediately get the salesperson or sales manager involved to clarify. I try to keep it very relaxed and non-confrontational because most people really have thier guard up.
Please remember that our discussions are topic-oriented, and people who decide to read posts in a particular discussion have an expectation that the messages relate to the topic title.
Unfortunately, we've had to move & delete a number of posts in here that were either off-topic or badgering/insulting. It would be helpful, and posts would have a longer life-span, if we could stick to the topic in here, and check for other relevant topics for unrelated conversation (e.g., Extended Warranties). Thanks!
PS - if your post(s) disappeared and weren't bad/off-topic, don't be offended. Sometimes that happens during a topic flush.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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No one (probably not even Chrysler) knows the correct answer. I would imagine Chryco will take a look at where they're at next week and decide what incentives to roll out next, if any.
I think it would be fair to say that there will be incentives. But, how much and for how long isn't anything any of us can answer. Manufacturer's certainly keep their future incentives a very well guarded secret, for obvious reasons. They don't want to keep anyone from buying now.
How much to you like to gamble?
I agree with fandi on this one...mostly. The incentives on GM and Chrysler products right now are some of the best in a while. That being said, it really depends on your situation. If you love that car and need one now, take the deal (especially if you are financing and have that lined up). If you are paying cash (and I mean you have enough liquid assets to cover the cost of the car right now) I would wait. Chrysler is hitting a rough patch right now (they are scheduled to lay off many employees today - I believe I heard on the news this morning that number was in the thousands). If they're having financial trouble, they may be willing to deal even lower to meet some sales goals.
But seriously, if the numbers are right - do the deal now. If they are not, ask for numbers that are. It doesn't matter what month it is.
Peace
Now, that's funny!!!!!!!!
I've never subscribed to that "whoever talks first loses" technique. If you couldn't tell by now, if I've got something to say, I'll say it.
If I'm in your showroom, I'm there for a reason. I'll tell you the reason. If I'm buying, I'll tell you that. If I'm not, I'll tell you that, too. I'll tell you exactly what I'm looking for. I don't want to waste your time, if you agree not to waste mine.
I want the deal to go as smoothly as possible. I want to be in and out as quickly as possible. I want it to be a pleasant experience. If you trust me, I'll trust you.
That said, I will come prepared. I'll have done my research. I will tell you what price I've come up with. And, it will be a simple "I can do that". Or, "I can't do that" proposition.
If we can't deal, no hard feelings. I'll go my way with a "thanks for your time" and a handshake. I'm really easy to deal with.
I buy from dealerships and people I trust. I don't "grind". Usually, I make one offer (sometimes called the "bobst method" around here). It's an offer I've put together based on what I think the car can be bought for. It includes everything (OTD...out the door) including taxes, finance charges (if I'm financing), title, license and doc fees. It's an "all-in" deal. I don't want to be bumped. I don't want to be surprised anywhere in the process.
In special situations, I've actually gone for a bit of "give and take", but that's the exception rather than the rule in my car buying.
On more than one occasion, I've been tempted to go to a place out EAST called Fitzmall. Haven't yet. They carry several brands. But, their philosophy is one I really like. They state their prices right on their internet site on every car they carry.
Their "doc fee" is a straight $99. Depending on make and model, their prices are very near invoice....sometimes below invoice. No add-ons. They've got one price for internet shoppers. Pretty much a straight deal. But, if you live in their locale (which I don't), they also offer a price a little above their internet price, which includes some add-ons like loaner cars. Add tax and title to their posted price, and you're done.
They state exactly what their philosophy is regarding car buying. It's all very straight forward. I like that.
IF you get a chance, go over to their web site. Really good info there.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in the market. I'm usually fairly conservative with my money, but I would never rule out the possiblity of an extended warratnty if the price was right. I have two kids, so whatever more peace of mind I can aquire, by getting the extended warranty, can only be benefical to my health.
I try to keep it very relaxed and non-confrontational because most people really have thier guard up.
As a buyer I try to use the same approach. It's just business, if the deal can be made... great, if not then I'll try somewhere else... no hard feelings.
No. Not in my case.
I will evaluate how trouble-prone MY car is during the factory warranty and then buy an extended warranty based upon the actual data I have of the exact vehicle that I plan to keep beyond the regular warranty.
I do make one (some times 2) offer, but grinding takes too much out of me when compared ith the rewards I reap. I ususally get very positive comments from sales people and the process is pretty painless. IMHO, if you go anywhere with a positve mind set, you'll do fine, if you go thinking "I'll be *&^%", then that's what you'll get. I also don't worry about what is least other people paid, but what's a fair price for me and my situation. I can't deal with the oneupmanship, and there's a lot of people claimig deals much better than tey really got.
There's been a few bad experiences, but they were very brief and I just walked out without wasting one more second. For the most part I actually
I was saying that for the most part I actually enjoy the car buying experience and I even help friends when they ask me to.
Now while the following may ostensibly seem off topic it is more of a macro view,Let's hope congress approves a bail out of Wall St. While it may seem offensive, let them reap what they have sown, trust me, you don't want to go down that road. I characterize the last 6 weeks as the Salem Witch trials meet Wall St's inner child who turns out to be chucky. Verily the banks deserve it and were they stupid, no doubt. But should you want to do a lease, or get a customer approved for a loan, good luck unless congress understands the hidden message in the bail out bill. Wall St. had to paint the picture black to get the bail out. But our foreign participants aren't in on the joke and take us quite literally.The following has been a test of the emergency broadcasting system . In the event of a real emergency you would have been directed to a lame Edmunds forum, Not suggesting that such an animal could exist.
buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Did anyone else notice that the prices on SUV's on the lots were not really lowered?
Ford for example has made few significant discounts on Explorers and Expeditions this summer.
Check out Carmax - the prices on large SUV's are as high as ever.
I think it was - and still is - a big hustle.
Saw one ad that stated "$1,000 below GM employee pricing on any vehicle...buyer keeps all rebates". Saw another one stating they'll better that offer by adding in a $500 gas card.
Not sure about what Toyota or any other maker is offering, but I see their stock levels on the lots, and their inventory is huge.....particularly with trucks and SUVs.
Went to a roll-out of the new '09 Acura TL last night (very.....very nice cars, BTW). Not in the market, but free food and drink? I'm all over that. Even Acura is overflowing with RDXs and MDXs.
Bottom line, these big hunks aren't selling. Saw another ad for a brand new '08 Tahoe for about 45% off of what the MSRP on my '07 Tahoe was. One of the very few times I wished I had leased.
And I always thought it was because if it were the other way around, nobody would ever get a date. :P
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Nobody wants them!
Man!! How did I miss out on that?! I can even write off my mileage..lol
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Also, I wonder if the GM Employee price is that good of a deal? I just looked at a 2008 Tahoe LS 2WD for 27k + Tax, etc...
I always use Intelliprice for valuation on trades.
I guess late model used is still the way to go for me. I don't want a $500/month car payment - that get's old real quick.