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My response. City traffic sucks. Having a manual transmission doesn't make it any better or worse. The third pedal is as natural as using a turn signal. I wouldn't want to teach somebody how to drive a stick on Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown, but once they are comfortable with it, it's really not an issue.
My 5'1" 105# wife hauls our kids and their friends around in the MDX, with 80% of her driving inside of the DC Beltway. We had traded a 1996 Trooper 5-speed with 80,000 miles. Her one gripe about the MDX is that she misses the stick. If the BMW X5 3.0 6-speed had been a little bigger, with a third row, that's what she'd be driving.
To each their own. But just to make sure they don't get labeled sissys, my daughters are going to learn to drive with a stick. I am also convinced it keeps kids paying more attention to "driving" than the other distractions that cause wrecks. (In my former Honda S2000, my then 5 year old mastered the 1-2 and 2-1 shift from the passenger seat, with me working the clutch.)
Driving at variable, slow speeds can be easier with a manual. Automatics don't offer much in the way of engine braking. Manuals on the other hand allow you to modulate vehicle speed with only your right foot, especially in lower gears. If traffic is slowing, but not stopping, I can decrease the amount of throttle and my vehicle will slow down without having to hit the brakes.
Another thing I find easier to deal with in a manual is cruise control. We rented a larger vehicle for vacation this summer and naturally it was an automatic.
And the very first thing I noticed was how the car would downshift on even slight grades to maintain the set speed. This would result in some awkward situations as cars were passing me and the cruise control was making it look like I was trying to keep people from passing me :sick: as I'd get an acceleration "bump" when the car downshifted and the car would speed up. I wound up NOT using the cruise for pretty much the whole week.
With manual, the speed is maintained by adding more gas in the gear you happen to be in. If the grade gets too steep, cruise kicks off. The speed you set is the speed you get and it's very smooth. And it's pretty much automatic for me to be ready when I start going up a grade to take over throttle control as the cruise gets ready to kick off.
Long live the stick!
pf flyer: Yessss! Long live the manual! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for what habitat1 said:
"The third pedal is as natural as using a turn signal."
No wonder everyone's too lazy to drive stick!
Traffic jams are a disadvantage, especially stop and go situations. But if you really like stick, you learn to live with it. Most people avoid stick if they drive daily in places like Toronto, but there will always be the few die-hards (like me and the people in this forum) that will deal with it.
Wisdom is beyond price, my son, be thankful you have it...
-- Leo McKern, "Ladyhawke"
While I'll complain about the traffic, I don't sit in it thinking I would be better off with an automatic. I don't think about it at all.
The same with downshifting versus just putting the car in neutral and using the brakes to slow down (no, not at 70mph, but at least under 30mph). Seems like that would make the clutch last longer and again, I'd rather change the brake pads then the clutch.
No, for whatever reason, that's not been an issue for my wife. She definitely has the seat moved up compared to me, but she is slender and has adequate room between her chest and the airbag. It could have been more of an issue in our 911 where the clutch is stiffer and the tendency may be to move the seat up a little bit to give the left leg more leverage. But the 911's steering wheel telescopes and we both like it all the way in to enable us to extend our arms.
Last point on City traffic. The trade off of a little more arm and leg exercise in having a stick, is having a car that is much more responsive from a dead stop or when needing a quick burst of speed. I had a 2005 Acura RL loaner when my TL 6-speed was in the shop. Trying to jump into traffic, take a left turn across traffic, etc. was a pain. The RL - a good car mind you - was much more difficult to accelerate quickly in those situations without stomping on the gas and then having to slam on the brakes after completing the merge or turn.
I'm no Mario Andretti, but I can zip around much more easily and safely with a 6-speed that I can directly control and modulate, than a car with a computer controlled slushbox with a mind of its own. Even SMG's such as BMW's M3 do not provide me with the same level of control and confidence.
Guys don't seem to have that problem. Guess we get enough practice at reclining to watch Sunday football.
Think about it - if you go up and down through every gear, you will cut your clutch life in half, basically. A clutch runs $400-700 plus install.
I bought brake pads for my Miata for $16.95 and put them on myself. OK, to be fair, both axles set me back about $37. Still about 10% of the cost of a clutch.
-juice
True.. Leave it to Americans to build solid highways.. I miss driving on I85/I285/I95.. I85 had 8 lanes going one way in the heart of Atlanta. Toronto sucks that way (tried the NYC model I guess but by folks of Brit origin) It sometimes takes me 45 minutes to drive 12 miles to work..
However, I heard that Southeast is getting worse now in areas like Atlanta, Miami etc..
Moreover, usually a stick enthusiast will utilize the neutral most of the time and to shift smoothly to minimize the clutch wear and the clutch can still last for at least 130,000 miles.
Compression braking in the gear you are already in is fine. I wouldn't do too much downshifting to brake - once I get down to lug speed in the gear I was already in, I just shift to neutral and use the brakes the rest of the way to 0 mph. Downshifting to brake is hard on EVERYTHING.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My last 3 VW's were automatics. The 97 Jetta GLX was okay with an automatic. The VR6 can come anyway it wants and I'll be happy, but the last 2 1.8T's were as much fun as "boiled turnip night at Nickerson's Farms in Hays, Kansas." Now, I'm circling around the Passat 2.0T, with great hope and expectations, but lo and behold: "No sunroof with the manual. No fog lights with the manual. No 3.6 V-6 with the manual." The positive side? Well, with such a lack of options for the manual, it is bound to be feather-light. The Jetta GLI is looking rather good to me now. My Theory? VW is not at fault here. Right now as we speak, there are more than a handful of the Passat 3.6's busting down the left lane on Autobahn A3 in 6th gear (manual transmission of course). It isn't VWAG. It's VW of America. They are the ones dictating what we really want.
I guess what we need to do, is everyone on this forum, collectively write a letter to your car manufacturer and tactfully, but forcefully, ask, "What are you trying to do to us?" And then they will come around and have pity and come back to their senses and ...... Yeah, right...
Can I buy you a turnip tonight? :sick:
For my purposes, I want a powerful car with a manual transmission, leather interior, a high end audio system WITHOUT a satellite system, dual zone climate control, a power adjustable driver's seat, Xenon headlights, Homelink, Rain sensing wipers, and an auto dimming mirror. Of that list, the Jetta GLI will provide everything I want (and more) if, and ONLY if I opt for the automatic transmission. :P If I opt for the manual transmission, then no high end audio system with or without satellite, no climate control, no power adjustable driver's seat, no Xenon headlights, no Homelink, no Rain sensing wipers, and no auto dimming mirror.
VW lost my business once before by pulling a stunt like this, and I guess they are determined to keep me gone.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
I am encouraged that Honda continues to offer the TL and TSX with manuals, despite what I hear is (not that surprisingly) a low take rate for that transmission. And now it has added a V-6 MT Accord sedan.
I believe the Acuras offer most of the stuff on your list.
My fear is that when Acura goes all AWD in the future, it will eliminate the manual. Note that the RL is auto-only.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was only comparing stopping with brakes vs. stopping by downshifting.
-juice
But you remind me of one major benefit of Manual over Auto, is that by manually down-shift, you can shorten your stopping distance by engine braking.
To be fair, some of the better auto trannys are smart enough to hold a lower gear on a down hill, too.
-juice
Engine braking is one reason I had to get a manual in my truck - the descent from Yosemite and over the Tahoe grade is steep enough I want something besides the brakes slowing me down.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm not exactly an auto tranny expert, given all my cars have been manuals.
-juice
juice: but what if it's second gear you want to be in - steep hill, low speed road?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A buddy of mine owns a Boxster and we went to the beach in that, probably spent 8+ hours driving on and off. The Tiptronic in that car was brilliant. It held a gear, downshifted before a turn, even blipped the throttle to match revs. Very impressive.
I think that tranny would be fine on a steep hill, low speed road.
OTOH, the Tiptronic in the Passat isn't nearly as good, and very slow to shift too.
-juice
Someone I know has the same truck I do, only with auto trans. On that grade coming out of Yosemite, even 2nd gear will only hold the speed to maybe 35 mph (at which point the engine is turning at maybe 2000 rpm, making me think it must be slipping, not in lock-up), which is too fast for that road when it is snowy. If you just lock out the overdrive so that it can't shift higher than third, it will allow the speed to climb to 60+, which is pointless to even do, as that is WAY too fast for that road in any weather.
In my truck, which is the stick shift, it will slow down in second gear even on steep grades (got the chance to head to Yosemite last week, yay!).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My point was a good automatic can do it, but you're right in that most don't.
-juice
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
On my way home from work last night, I realized that I modulate my speed in slow traffic (both on and off the highway) solely by throttle as much as possible. With a slushbox, that won't be the case and I'll be hopping from throttle to brake and back again ... potentially many, many times.
Makes me think that perhaps I should stick with a stick (ha! - pun intended).
Now to find something with a V6 and a manual transmission, preferably under $25K....
My next Kia will have a manual transmission and my current one has one. The Kia before the one I have now had a manual tranny as well. Starting to see a trend occurring?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Drink. You, I mean, not her. It takes the edge off. LOL
-juice
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
A manumatic will stay in the gear you tell it to, until your rpms reach either extreme of the rpm range.
Physically, they're the same, torque converter and all. But they're not to be confused with SMG, DSG, and the like, which are manual transmissions without clutch pedals. They do have a clutch (the DSG has two), which a computer controls when you press the flappy paddles. But since it's computer controlled, you can program the computer to choose when to shift, like an automatic.
All flappy-paddle manual transmissions except for DSG downshift perfectly; they raise revs to where they have to be for a seamless shift. But they don't let revs drop on upshifts - they shift as fast as possible - which makes for jerky upshifts. Good for racing, but that's it.
DSG (found in VWs and Audis) have two clutches. One of them gets used like a normal clutch, while the other one guess what gear you're going to switch into. It revs at the appropriate speed, so when you upshift or downshift, it's totally smooth. The only downside is weight and complexity, but VWs and Audis are heavy anyway.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)