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Plus, my son (14 now) is anxious to learn to drive a stick. More fun, plus doubles the odds he has a car to drive when he needs one from the driveway!
Also, the clutch action is so light and smooth on this car, even a neophyte should be able to master it. ALmost idiot proof. That, and I could sit in traffic all day and not get a tired left leg.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It is my totally unsubstantiated viewpoint that if everyone were driving a manual transmission, traffic jams would be a lot less annoying. I pay a lot of attention to what is going on in front of me because I am trying to keep my car coasting in second gear. But since autos are easier to start rolling, the yahoos in front are constantly speeding up to "protect their space" and then slamming on the brakes. :P
I remember a trip to Seattle when I got caught in the shift change at the Boeing plant. It was drizzling, and everyone was going 20mph without stop/starts. I know it wasn't because they were all driving manuals, but I was certainly having an easier time in traffic with my Accord 5sp.
One possible difference that may have influenced your decision- turbocharged vehicles are often slightly quicker than their manual counterparts. I've read this numerous times in magazine tests and, if I'm not mistaken, the '86.5-'92 Toyota Supra Turbo, '90-'95 300 ZX Turbo among others are examples of this. Top speed isn't usually as fast, but 0-60 and street starts are quicker.
For me, though, there just isn't any substitute for the visceral feel of snicking from gear to gear. Having driven a manual Volvo before, I can say that if I had to have one, I'd probably go automatic, too. The exception being the new S40 which is a wonderful vehicle to drive in manual form.
Amen to that. That was always my dad's rationale in teaching my mom to drive one shortly after they were married and teaching me and my sister to drive a manual in our early teens. I started learning at 12 on back country roads and in my grandfather's pasture. It paid off quite well for dad, he had a heart attack when I was 14 and I was able to drive him to the hospital (30 miles away) in his old Ford work truck with "three on the tree". Try finding many people who can drive a column shift manual these days! Heck, try finding any still running!
I think it does improve driver skill to learn to drive one. There is an inherent connection between driver and vehicle that is absent in automatics. I don't think it's a coincidence that my friends and family members who drive manuals have very safe driving records.
There are still some old column-mount trucks out there. They were built in handfuls up to the end of the 1980s. Good luck finding anyone under 35 who actually knows how to use the thing.
Honest question: what is a column shifter? Like one of those automatic shifters some cars have sticking out next to the steering wheel? How do they get all the linkages to fit?
THey ran the linkages up the steering column. Needless to say, the shift action left something to be desired. Not exactly Miata tight.
Just like using a floor shift, except neutral went front-back (that is, toward you and away). Not hard once you figure out where reverse is.
My sister had one on a '65 Chevelle (I was about 12, and the was about 10 at the time).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
You get to say that your ride has "three on the tree"
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A 3 on the tree is the best theft deterrent. When I was a teenager, one of my dad's hobby cars was a 68 Fairlane with a 3 on the tree. It was an absolute stripper, manual steering and brakes. The only options it had were the 289 and the AM radio. Driving that car was quite a workout in town, I loathed it. The car isn't huge, but it's no lightweight, and the clutch take-up on it was horrible, and the linkage painfully notchy. On the highway though it would lighten up, and no need for shifting there of course.
:confuse:
How? Because most car thieves, like most drivers, can't or don't want to drive sticks either? Or would have trouble selling it?
Won't work if your car thief is more skilled. He can always take your m.t. car to a chop shop and cannibalize every part except the transmission, and there's probably a black market for those too.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Why not just get a different brand then? Or pick from one of the few SUV models that do have sticks available. If your experience with Honda/Acura auto transmissions turns out to be anything like mine, chances are it will outlast your interest in/ownership of the vehicle.
My concern was that you made it sound like driving a stick was the equivalent of beating Micheal Jordon in basketball, not dribbling one. Frankly, that scares me.
I did not say or imply that. You inferred it.
And sometimes I also wonder how residents learned to perform vascular surgery and became real doctors.
I did and do say it IS hard though, as have some other posters in this thread. Much harder than learning to drive with an auto.
At one time or another, there is a good chance that anyone driving the Capital Beltway is going to face an "accident avoidance maneuver". I did a few years ago when a truck blew a tire and veered across two lanes (at night, in a light rain). I didn't have time to think, I just had to react. I braked, swerved, acclerated out of a skid/spin and managed to get by. If you are so easily intimidated by a manual transmission, how do you think you would have handling that situation, regardless of what you were driving?
I've already survived such an encounter. Came out unscathed except for the momentary scare. Happened few years ago on I495 W Outer loop near the fork to go I270 N. Some idiot in the lane to my right decided at the last possible second that he wanted to go into the left fork instead of the right. He obviously didn't see me and proceeded to come into my lane, nearly violating a cardinal law of physics that two cars cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
I also had no time to think, just react. Braked and swerved out of the way; luckily, didn't go into skid, pavement was dry.
However, there's no assurance, much less guarantee, that any amount of skill can ensure the next such encounter will turn out nearly as well. Though you'd probably loath to admit it, chance and luck were also significant factors in our respective good outcomes. In your case, avoiding the truck prevented what could have been death or serious injury for you, but had you been surrounded by other cars, you could've collided with one/some of them while swerving.
More to the point, the skills required for driving manual transmissions are not the same ones for emergency accident avoidance. One is not dependent on, nor acquired, through having the other. I've heard of "extreme driving schools" where they teach you things such as what to do if your car goes into a skid and let you practice such mamaneuvers.Definitely worth looking into. Or do you suggest we should all go find some empty lot somewhere, deliberately throw our cars into a skid, and practice recovering from it?
Regardless, accident avoidance skills are useful and more "necessary". Being able to drive an m.t.--not really necessary. That's more for one's personal edification and enjoyment.
But if someone can't master the physical coordination required to drive a stick, that's a pretty good indication that they don't have the cocoordinationequired to control a 3,000 lb car (or 5,000 lb SUV) in an accident avoidance maneuver.
Nope. See above. And besides, how much time should one take to master the coordination to drive a stick anyway? Not everyone can just hop into an m.t. car for the first couple of times and drive it as well as an automatic like you. Just because I don't, you make it sound like I have cerebral palsy or something. Sticks feel totally unnatural to people who drove automatics all their lives. There isn't even a concept of stalling or rolling backwards with automatics--those things cannot happen from driver (in)action. And don't get me started on parallel parking...on hills...in San Francisco..
And, if I were President, they wouldn't be issued a National Driver's License that I would be instituing by presidential decree.
But don't worry, I'm not giving up my day job to run for office just yet. I'm too politically incorrect for that. But I bet I would save innocent lives.
I'm not worried. As long as you reach out to voters in the same way you've been talking down to me, you will not be elected dog catcher, much less President.
While I admire your desire to save innocent lives, the sad truth is innocent lives will continue to be lost as long as we drive cars and your ideas won't make much of a dent in that. You will not be able ban accidental vehicle deaths through legislation any more than you can ban truck tires from suddenly exploding. Think about it, it's already illegal to drive drunk, or fall asleep while driving, or simply not pay enough attention while driving. And yet traffic deaths from those reasons still happen far too often. Now how many traffic deaths come from people driving who don't have the coordination to drive a stick? (Like how much coordination do you even need to drive an automatic anyway?) Probably doesn't even register as a blip on the radar compared to the aforementioned egregious reasons.
Merry Christmas, everyone!
-juice
My mom drives a stick -- and come to think of it, she's a grandma now, too. She's not very technically minded, so she avoids my dad's automatic car like the plague. Never learned to drive an automatic, see...
My wife drives a stick in the summer.
My mother-in-law knows how.
My father-in-law knows how.
You see where I'm going with this... it's really not a big deal.
-Mathias
Then my dad bought the Explorer, and she had to learn how to drive automatic. We showed her a few times, until she got the hang of it.
People on both sides of this thing respond with fear to thoughts of driving the other, whether manual or automatic.
But my mom's own car is a manual-shift Civic, which she swears she is never selling. And yes, she commutes in it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I taught her how to drive a stick 10 years ago. At that time, she had a pretty good understanding of HOW to do it, but had fears of trying. Granted, she is not the most coordinated individual, but definitely not the worst. She is extremely intelligent, however, so understanding the concept was easy. Anyway, it took a long, long time for her to become ok at it - not good, just ok.
She badly needed a car, and we found a good used one with a stick. After driving it for 15,000 miles, she still stalled occasionally, could not start out or make the 1-2 shift very smoothly, and still hated hills. She said it made her anxious, and was too much to think do/think about. Guess what - we sold it and bought her an automatic! Much happier now. She is not a bad driver, never been in an accident, etc., but prefers to be the passenger.
Today, I still have a stick (always will), and sometimes she has to drive it. She still has the problems I mentioned above, still doesn't like it, but thankfully she will drive it if she has to, IF it is not too far, and if it is without big hills! Also, I had to reassure her that if she damaged the clutch, etc. that it was just money, not a life!
My point: some people just don't want to, or can't get the hang of it to the point of enjoying it. It is hard for lots here to understand that, but I see both sides - it was tough for me to understand her dislike and struggles of the stick at first, but now I understand. She even asked friends (both male and female) about driving stick, and the results were:
Several of them (2 female, one male) agreed with her that they could not get the hang of it to be comfortable. Way more males can drive stick. Of the people that can drive stick, way more males like it. But overall, most people don't know how, don't care to learn, or don't want to ever drive one again.
I think part of it has to do with people in the US wanting big, luxury vehicles.
Another problem is some shorter people cannot reach the clutch without being too close to the steering wheel - yes pedal extenders might be available, but it is easier to just get an automatic.
Just my thoughts and experiences...
It does make me nervous about getting older.
Bzzzzt! I'm sorry, that is incorrect. I learned to drive a Stick in my twenties, so did my wife. Between the two of us we've had seventeen new cars since we learned, and only two have been with the dreaded Automatic transmission. Why? Because no decent MiniVan was available with our preferred transmission type. That and given our growing family, not having said MiniVan became impossible. :-/
Best Regards,
Shipo
Do all of the people you listed live in Europe?
If yes, then that's the difference. Everyone in my family in Europe knows how to drive a manual, many of them have never used an automatic, some haven't seen an automatic and to my 15 year cousin I had to explain what an automatic was.
However, in the US the ratio of automatics far exceeds manuals by a huge number, and being that many cars are not available in manual (that should be) it poses a problem for those of us who like to shift. Although my current car is an automatic, my next car which I will be purchasing this Spring (and all others after that) will be a manual.
I personally think that the use of manuals should be taught in driver's education classes in the US.
Either way, a stick may be cumbersome to some, but it's not "difficult".
And I think there are some drivetrains that work quite well without using a manual... mostly large-displacement, torquey engines. The 3.3 V6/4sp auto I had in my Villager/Quest was a fine combination, and I never wished for a stick in that van.... but I'm glad it's gone and I'm back to small 5sp cars.
-Mathias
I said "most", not all!
People who have a passion for driving will always love manual transmissions.
Every year I see more and more of my friends giving up their manuals for the "family" vehicle. It just seems to get worse every day. So the future doesn't look all that bright for the three pedal guys. Not saying you won't be able to special order a manual in the future.
But it is getting even worse if you look around. Last night we were at a friends house with some other couples for New Years eve. One of the other wives told my wife that we would just have to buy a Quad to go out on the sand dunes with them. This sounded like a great idea to me because my wife wouldn't listen to such an idea coming from me. However the next statement surprised me. The woman said she wasn't all that interested in getting one till her husband brought home a 250 with an automatic complete with reverse. Even on sports quads an invasion has started. I could see the hand writing on the wall.
That makes me want the car even more. Almost seals the deal for me!
Seriously, though, I consider myself a car enthusiast and I love my manual-trannied Kia's! I will want manual tranny's for several more Kia's in a row, too.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Interesting thing you say about the shifter's location. Maybe it would vary with me if I drove one. Our bodies are all built differently. But that is a point well-taken and makes my test drives all the more enticing in the next several weeks.
If a Hyundai dealer in Pocatello or Salt Lake City could order me a 2006 Hyundai Sonata GL in 5-speed form for around $15,499(supposedly the actual price for a manual-trannied GL these days)I'd test drive one. That's just it-my local Hyundai dealer not only has no '06 Accents in(or '04, or '05 Hyundai Accents in for sale)stock they also have all automatic '06 Hyundai Sonata's! Yucky automatics! I will not go back to an automatic transmission! It would be like I was being forced to listen to Britney Spears music and somebody taking all of my Foghat, Guess Who and Tragically Hip cassettes and CD's and whizzing them into a nearby garbage dumpster! Seriously!
That ain't gonna cut the mustard, dudes! Do I have to drive the 160 miles southward to Salt Lake City, Utah, to get the 5-speed '06 Hyundai Sonata GL? Silver or white would be cool for that car, I should whip an e-mail over to my local dealer to stir up his sales-pot a tad.
For the '06 Kia Rio5 SX the one here in town is Tropical Red, probably my next-fave choice after that new Sunburst Orange they are making the Rio5 SX in. The Tropical Red would be great, too. That Orange looks awesome...maybe I'll ask them to order one for us. Dealers are glum on ordering cars I've noticed, though. Time to be a pest and have them talk me out of trading my beloved '01 Kia Sportage 4x4.
It's all a sales-leverage game, man.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I still think saying "most" is not correct. I don't think when you learn has anything to do with it.
Some people want the convenience of an auto, and that's fine. Some of us prefer to row our own -- that's fine too. I think most people decide early on which camp they fall into and they stay there, for the most part. I do think that it's uncommon for people to learn to drive a manual later on, but I doubt that age has anything to do with how they feel about it.
P.S.: I'm not one who switched. I've never owned an automatic in the 25+ years I've been driving.
P.P.S.: My younger brother didn't learn to drive a manual until last year (he's 32), and I don't think he's going back to an auto any time soon.
THEY WERE ALL MANUALS.
I just about dropped dead in surprise that the dealer would order that many manual-equipped cars, although in retrospect that is exactly the type of car in which it is still easiest to find a manual.
But I guess it is also not hard to figure out why they have so many '05s as the calendar turns over, eh? They literally have more than a dozen, all varying colors with exactly the same equipment set except a couple lack the optional A/C.
They have several '05 Elantras, for the same reason: all manual. I begin to appreciate WHY it is that dealers don't order manuals.
Funny also: was shopping for a 4WD to replace my old 4Runner this fall, and checked out a new '05 stick shift RAV. We couldn't come to terms because they wouldn't come down enough on price. It was their only stick shift, so they were calling it "rare", and slapping a price premium on it! Anyway, this is a dealer that puts their inventory on-line, so I have checked on it occasionally since then. They had a dozen or so automatic '05s that they sold in fairly short order, and by the time the redesigned '06 became available, that stick shift '05 was the only one they had left of the old model. Now it is CY 2006, and they still have that '05. I bet they wish now they had sold it to me at the time. But here is another model where the only ones left over at year's end are the manual shifts, and whaddya know, Toyota has cancelled the stick shift on this model for the next gen (now current model).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Re-hee-ha-hee-hareeeeaaaalllllly! That is an interesting fact to ponder. I think Toyota should still build them in manual tranny form.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Luckily I have not yet turned the golden leaf of 40 years of age, and am definitely no sorority girl.
However, the RAV was only a long shot for me anyway. I like something a little more heavy duty.
And no, Doc, there are no more manual shift RAV4s.
However, in a brief that was interesting to me, I was reading about Toyota's plans for the model mix of the FJ40 which will be a frame-based truck, and they expect over 90% to be 4WD, and 2/3 to be stick shifts. And the buyers to be almost exclusively male, with 1/3 under 30.
Don't know if they will hit the age target, but it intrigued me that Toyota, the king of call-the-manual-standard-and-then-don't-actually-build-any, expects to build 2/3 as manuals.
Who needs a manual shift RAV after the FJ becomes available (well, the folks who want 4-cylinders get short-changed, but then, don't they always?)? :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There were also several manual Elantras there and no automatics on the lot.
Your comment about the manual RAV4 piqued my curiousity. I went to the buyatoyota.com website and there isn't a single '05 manual RAV4 in the entire Southeast. While I was there, I also looked up manual Camrys. Out of 5,725 in the Southeast, there are 42 manuals. I wonder what sort of person buys a manual Camry?
It was weird to shift a Camry for myself. The week before I drove a '96 with a stick. Neither had a very good clutch, both were around the 90K-mile mark.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Don't know if they will hit the age target
One would think that automakers would be wary of making predictions about buyer ages, after Honda so totally missed the mark on the Element, and of course Toyota's less-extreme but still significant miss on the xB.
non-vacuous makes all the difference
What is cool is that they will build so many 4WDs - even in the early years of the 4Runner, they never built more than 50-60% in 4WD. More importantly, the last time they built a lot of stick shifts in the 4Runner was in the '90-'95 model run, and those stick numbers were already waning towards the end of that generation. With the '96-'00s, they built very few sticks, well under 10% toward the end, and of course cancelled the stick entirely after MY2000.
So for them to say they will start off building 2/3 of the FJs with the 6-speed just made my jaw drop when I read it. In kind of a weird move, they will only make the stick available on 4WD models, the RWDers will be automatic-only.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Someone who is sober but never has driven a stick or someone who know how to drive a stick but had a few too many drinks.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'll refrain from commenting about the drunk.
Best Regards,
Shipo
She asked me how much "the stick shift one" would cost! :-)
I had to explain that automatics were much more popular these days, and that they don't actually make the Prius with a stick - she couldn't believe her ears - 20 years driving a stick shift had her thinking they still made all cars with a stick. Don't I wish.......
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Been driving stick since 1979... and I don't want to stop now!
The Versa is a car for the future and it has the standard 6-speed. On my local Kia dealer's lot are 4 of the 2006 Rio's. Three LX sedans and one Rio5 SX "hatchwagon". Three of the four are manual transmissions! :P
Imagine that. Kia is a manufacturer that I think will always provide manual transmissions in nearly all models. Cars like the Amanti, maybe not. Minivans like their Sedona, then again, maybe not. But the kind I like and will continue buying, the Rio's, Spectra's Sportage's, etc., will continue to be built with manual transmissions. It really is the only way to fly!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick